If 'eating clean' is so easy for you, how did you get fat?

Francl27

Apologies for using 'fat', but overweight was too long to fit in the title.

I keep seeing so many threads about people who eat 'clean', avoid processed sugar, follow their hunger signs etc, and it seems so easy for them.

My question to those people is... if your relationship with food is so healthy... how did you get overweight in the first place?

I mean, I got fat because I love food, I'm obsessed with food (notice I didn't use 'addicted'), and it's just a huge part of my life. All my life I've just eaten what I wanted when I wanted it... I don't remember my parents ever telling me I couldn't have something. I just helped myself. I don't think I'll ever be able to just see food as sustenance... it's a pleasure. I've got much better at moderation and trying to make the most of my calories (taste-wise... I don't exactly meet my macros every day, lol), but I don't think the desire to eat more tasty food will ever go away. I'm aware it's going to be a life-long struggle.

Just really curious about this (and probably a bit jealous, lol. I wish I was one of those people for whom losing weight was easy).

Edited for bad, bad grammar.

levitateme

Great post, I totally agree. I ate way too many hot pockets yesterday. I was under my goal, but I felt like having junk.

On the same note, I also don't understand the "I struggle so hard to reach 1200 calories!" people.

Really? because I exercise a ridiculous amount of restraint every day to stay under 1600... That's why I was overweight before.

Agathist

I second it, great post

I too am food obsessed, if I didn't put weight on I would eat constantly, lots of lovely food. all sorts, healthy, unhealthy. I can eat clean, but only for a while before I really give in to the voice in my head that wants me to eat other stuff. I am a binger when I let myself.

Like the OP, this is a lifelong battle with myself that I face, and it's not easy!

TheGirlsATimeBomb

i'm sure what they mean to say is "since i've decided to commit to being healthy, it has been easy"

before, they ate what they wanted and didn't care, now that they made the commitment to being healthy, they realized how easy it is for them.... i am NOT one of those people, it is a struggle for me, but that's just my two cents.

galprincess

Ive lost 17lbs in 87 days , this is the best ive done in a long time and this time its forever, I gained weight through pregnancy and over eating, it depends on definition of eating clean for me it is about cooking from scratch and loading meals with fruit veg and salad as I can eat loads but it isn't too high in calories and if it doesn't fit I work off extra calories. I usually fit my meals into my calorie goal and that works for me its all about the individual and how it works for them.
What you might call eating clean another may not but for me personally its about loading in the low calorie fresh foods and adding protein along side it and carbs from fruit and veg.
I have the odd day where I open the freezer and cook frozen breaded fish and chips because im a mum and that's all I can manage but I don't do it often and it fits into my calorie goal and so its no biggie really.
The reason ive failed in the past is trying to do it all perfectly all the time and no one and nothing is perfect it has to be realistic and within goal where possible but 100 calories over never killed anyone this is just my opinion we are all different id rather lose weight slowly and keep it off than go on a clean food obsession diet and fail

Urban_Princess

I started eating clean recently. I got fat after eating boxes of brownies, bags of cookies, 3 sandwiches in a day, anything and everything from the frozen section, pasta (mac and cheese and those sidekick type of things), chicken fingers, cheese and crackers (not in moderation), and eating fast food almost every day.

So eating clean made me lose weight because I'm not eating so much cr@p. 57lbs lost in 5.5 months. Yea I'll stick to eating clean.

NumbrsNerd

Apologies for using 'fat', but overweight was too long to fit in the title.

I keep seeing so many threads about people who eat 'clean', avoid processed sugar, follow their hunger signs etc, and it seems so easy for them.

My question to those people is... if your relationship with food is so healthy... how did you get overweight in the first place?

I mean, I got fat because I love food, I'm obsessed with food (notice I didn't use 'addicted'), and it's just a huge part of my life. All my life I've just eaten what I wanted when I wanted it... I don't remember my parents ever telling me I couldn't have something. I just helped myself. I don't think I'll ever be able to just see food as sustenance... it's a pleasure. I've got much better at moderation and trying to make the most of my calories (taste-wise... I don't exactly meet my macros every day, lol), but I don't think the desire to eat more tasty food will ever go away. I'm aware it's going to be a life-long struggle.

Just really curious about this (and probably a bit jealous, lol. I wish I was one of those people for whom losing weight was easy).

Edited for bad, bad grammar.

I just started paleo and so far, I am loving it and its working exceptionally well. I chose it for medical reasons, and I do see it as a sustainable lifestyle change choice.

How did I get overweight to begin with? Bad choices. Too much unhealthy restaurant food, too much processed food, simply too much food. In the beginning of our marriage, when we were broke and just getting started, it was things like hamburger helper and cheap beef. As our income increased, it became more and more restaurant food.

I'm a serial yo-yo dieter, and have dropped major pounds on 1100-1200 calorie diets; however, I ALWAYS gained the weight back because starvation (and that's what it was) is not sustainable.

Paleo is not easy. It's hard - mostly because I'm new to it, I hope. Shopping takes thought, prepping and cooking takes longer than ever, but truthfully, the food my husband and I are eating is more enjoyable than anything we ate before. That's what makes it easy. I love to cook, and we love to eat; now we're eating better qualify foods that are super delicious. I am enjoying food more than ever!! Paleo foods are also filling foods; empty calories are not part of our diet anymore. We also have to restrict - I can't eat half a bag of nuts per day because I must still create a calorie deficit. Believe me, I want to eat them, but I don't.

I think the main difference is level of commitment (not knocking ANYONE's commitment). I'm just saying, if you're trying to eat "clean" or paleo, you're changing A LOT of things across the board rather than just restricting calories. To take on that kind of life change takes a lot of dedication and "I'm gonna do this" mentality. (Again, I'm not trying to offend anyone who's not paleo or does not eat clean - to each their own - I'm just addressing OP's question.)

I still struggle. I still incorporate "cheat days" because cold turkeying off all of the foods I used to love would be extremely painful. Those who have been doing paleo longer than me suggest that this is the first area I address when things start getting tough and losses stall. ::GASP:: Truthfully, the friend who suggested this is right. I had a bad week last week, and the scale showed it. I tightened things back up, and made a full turnaround.

Finally: please don't assume losing weight is easy for anyone; regardless of their choice of approach. It's hard for all of us, that's why we're here.

RunBakeLove

Always remember that people can have a facade when they post on the internet. It is safe, you can't see them, you don't watch what they eat or how they struggle. So I feel like some of those people aren't being honest with themselves and post those things to make themselves believe it is easy. Or it is easy...for the first 3 months...

Or maybe the above theory just makes me feel better since I have a really hard time avoiding french fries, chocolate, and rum! I will never be a "clean" eater. I am just working on mastering moderation because I don't plan to be miserable for the rest of my life. "Don't focus so much on what you want your body to look like, focus on what you want your life to look like."

SezxyStef

I started eating clean recently. I got fat after eating boxes of brownies, bags of cookies, 3 sandwiches in a day, anything and everything from the frozen section, pasta (mac and cheese and those sidekick type of things), chicken fingers, cheese and crackers (not in moderation), and eating fast food almost every day.

So eating clean made me lose weight because I'm not eating so much cr@p. 57lbs lost in 5.5 months. Yea I'll stick to eating clean.

actually it was a calorie deficet that made you lose weight....

sorry eating "clean" is a buzz word and will have no impact on weight loss if you don't do it in moderation too...

BachMa2000

My diet before actively trying to lose weight was for the most part what people on here would call "clean eating". I just ate way too much. I have always been able to put away a lot food. I don't really like a lot of processed food, don't really eat fast food and prefer savory to sweet food for the most part. I have always loved eating until I am stuffed but I am learning to be satisfied with less. For me it was a change in quantity I needed not quality.

lemonsnowdrop

Tonight I'm having sloppy joes with Arby's curly fries. Is it "clean"? Haha, of course not, but why deprive myself of food I like? You only live for so long.

asdowe13

I started eating clean recently. I got fat after eating boxes of brownies, bags of cookies, 3 sandwiches in a day, anything and everything from the frozen section, pasta (mac and cheese and those sidekick type of things), chicken fingers, cheese and crackers (not in moderation), and eating fast food almost every day.

So eating clean made me lose weight because I'm not eating so much cr@p. 57lbs lost in 5.5 months. Yea I'll stick to eating clean.

It's not the fooad that created your overweightness, it was the fact you ate too much of it.
You lost weight because you cut down on your caloric intake.

Elsie_Brownraisin

I don't understand what 'clean' means. Is it cooking everything yourself (no ready meals etc), or is it nothing processed at all, e.g. soy sauce? Not to provoke an argument or gifs, I see it a lot and don't know what it means.

However, I'm a good cook and can make ice cream, pasta, cakes, yeasted doughnuts, pies and pizza from scratch. Not to mention fried chicken, chips, tempura, beef and yorkshire pudding, naan bread...the list goes on.

I'm a food obsessed chubber and love cooking - if homemade ice cream and steak and kidney pie (sometimes made with organic, or 'locally sourced' (ugh, I hate that phrase too) or grown myself ingredients) count as clean, it was dead easy to get fat.

Edit to add: I still eat the above, but considerably less of it than I used to.

MomTo3Lovez

I know for me personally it was what I ate at the time because frankly I didn't care. So we ate out most days of the week (fast food) and I would get the larger fries and drink and sometimes it would be twice a day. We had pasta when we didn't eat out and I never measured that always had way over the serving size and had very little fruits and veggies. That on top of having 3 kids youngest being 1.5 and he was the largest of the 3 I had gained a lot with him and eating the way i did made it that much worse. My biggest issue was sodium I had logged what I used to eat and I could have passed out with the amount of sodium I would have in a day.

Now with eating healthier there is a fear there about eating too much and trying to figure out what works and what doesn't with my hectic schedule being a single mom to 3 kids and working full time outside of the home. Plus getting helpful suggestions about how to up my calories throughout the day without feeling bad.

MomTo3Lovez

I know for me personally it was what I ate at the time because frankly I didn't care. So we ate out most days of the week (fast food) and I would get the larger fries and drink and sometimes it would be twice a day. We had pasta when we didn't eat out and I never measured that always had way over the serving size and had very little fruits and veggies. That on top of having 3 kids youngest being 1.5 and he was the largest of the 3 I had gained a lot with him and eating the way i did made it that much worse. My biggest issue was sodium I had logged what I used to eat and I could have passed out with the amount of sodium I would have in a day.

Now with eating healthier there is a fear there about eating too much and trying to figure out what works and what doesn't with my hectic schedule being a single mom to 3 kids and working full time outside of the home. Plus getting helpful suggestions about how to up my calories throughout the day without feeling bad.

Edited to add that I am also working on a very strict low budget so it makes it a bit harder too, but I am figuring it out.

rhenry086

It's about changing your relationship with food so that it's healthy. Before I started logging on MFP, I was not exercising a whole lot and I ate all the wrong foods. One day, I tried a little extreme version of clean eating and started to eat paleo. I did this for 3 weeks, lost 5 pounds, and that changed my relationship with food completely. I didn't count calories at all. I don't eat paleo anymore these days, but I'm a lot more conscience of the foods I put into my mouth (most days!). My relationship with food has changed.

Bounce4

I hear ya!

I don't really know what clean eating is but the eating healthier part is easy for me. Although a lot of 'clean eating' people probably would not think I ate all that healthy :P All in the point of reference, lol.

However - my issue is portion control and the desire to eat for pleasure - like you mentioned. I want the food. I want more of the food regardless of healthy or junk. I want to eat and even though I may not be hungry and I don't restrict any foods, I feel deprived. At this moment I want to be fit *more* than I want to eat. I hope that feeling of being deprived goes away because if it doesn't - it is gonna be a long long road.

rockmama72

I love to cook and love food. I don't know if it's clean or not--I don't eat a lot of highly processed or fast food. I eat tons of produce and beans and proteins, don't have a huge sweet tooth... But boy do I love wine.

For my entire adult life, I was fit and exercised regularly. Sometimes my weight would creep up, and I'd be a little more careful about food for a while, and all would be good. Then in my late 30s (about 5 years ago) I had a really tough pregnancy and afterward I was a weak, muscle-atrophied blob. I was sick, my baby was sick, I was depressed, and I just never fixed it. (Except with more wine!)

So I stopped exercising, kept eating the same, and increased my alcohol consumption. Gained 40 pounds over 5 years, plus the 20 I had left from the pregnancy.

And here I am

NumbrsNerd

It's about changing your relationship with food so that it's healthy. Before I started logging on MFP, I was not exercising a whole lot and I ate all the wrong foods. One day, I tried a little extreme version of clean eating and started to eat paleo. I did this for 3 weeks, lost 5 pounds, and that changed my relationship with food completely. I didn't count calories at all. I don't eat paleo anymore these days, but I'm a lot more conscience of the foods I put into my mouth (most days!). My relationship with food has changed.

This is what I see happening with me as well as a begin my paleo conversion. I'm simply more conscious about EVERY decision I make about food. It doesn't mean I've become obsessed; I'm finally beginning to learn what makes me feel good and what makes me feel bad and what makes the scale move up and down.

DapperKay

I started eating clean recently. I got fat after eating boxes of brownies, bags of cookies, 3 sandwiches in a day, anything and everything from the frozen section, pasta (mac and cheese and those sidekick type of things), chicken fingers, cheese and crackers (not in moderation), and eating fast food almost every day.

So eating clean made me lose weight because I'm not eating so much cr@p. 57lbs lost in 5.5 months. Yea I'll stick to eating clean.

Pretty much this for me too-

In my head

A- Old me:

Ate till satisfied BUT ate anything that tasted good and made me feel better ==> ate junk 90% clean 10% (normally when I'm at my parents).

B- New me:

Ate till satisfied BUT makes sure I eat fresh vegetable, fresh meat, minimal processed food, etc. ==> clean 70% junk 30%

Notice that I still eat 30% junk (loose concept) but for instance this lunch I had a pulled bbq brisket in a bun with coleslaw. Not necessarily the junkiest of foods but in my book that is junk.

So long as I stick to the 70/30 rule I am good and in fact keep losing (even though I really just want to maintain). Weeks were the 30 becomes a 50 (think Christmas/Easter) I start to struggle.

Don't count calories anymore - eat reasonably, feel full, work out, stick to 70/30 rule.

Siannah

I second it, great post

I too am food obsessed, if I didn't put weight on I would eat constantly, lots of lovely food. all sorts, healthy, unhealthy. I can eat clean, but only for a while before I really give in to the voice in my head that wants me to eat other stuff. I am a binger when I let myself.

Like the OP, this is a lifelong battle with myself that I face, and it's not easy!

Same here. I lost the weight a few years ago and have maintained since, but clean eating has never come natural for me. And I doubt it ever will. I wish it would! I regularly fall off the wagon unfortunately. Good thing is that I always climb back on, but I wish I was a little better balanced at this stage!

liznotyet

I started eating clean recently. I got fat after eating boxes of brownies, bags of cookies, 3 sandwiches in a day, anything and everything from the frozen section, pasta (mac and cheese and those sidekick type of things), chicken fingers, cheese and crackers (not in moderation), and eating fast food almost every day.

So eating clean made me lose weight because I'm not eating so much cr@p. 57lbs lost in 5.5 months. Yea I'll stick to eating clean.

Processed food was my food for 35+ years. I am curious what my body would look like now if I had been eating more clean food instead. I wonder if I wouldn't have problems with blood sugar and vision, muscle fatigue and sloth, TV addiction, wine use, procrastination. All of those years wasted because I was too lazy to cook for myself!

Holly_Roman_Empire

I started eating clean recently. I got fat after eating boxes of brownies, bags of cookies, 3 sandwiches in a day, anything and everything from the frozen section, pasta (mac and cheese and those sidekick type of things), chicken fingers, cheese and crackers (not in moderation), and eating fast food almost every day.

So eating clean made me lose weight because I'm not eating so much cr@p. 57lbs lost in 5.5 months. Yea I'll stick to eating clean.

It's not the fooad that created your overweightness, it was the fact you ate too much of it.
You lost weight because you cut down on your caloric intake.

Exactly this. My extended family, parents, etc., are all farm-raised country folk who make and eat everything from scratch. They eat all their fruits and vegetables, too. They just eat a lot of it. A LOT of it.

Erin29ga

The whole term "clean eating" confuses me, and scares the hell out of me. A friend of mine "eats clean" and has had awesome sucess..in a very short amount of time..not good. Not for me..If I want a candy bar...I'm gonna eat one...If I'm on vacation with my family and we eat out, I'm not gonna worry about how "clean" the food is. I'm going to eat what I want to eat..not gonna have food rule my life, and worry about whether something is "clean" or not. Pffft.

euronorris

I was brought up on junk/processed foods. As I'm sure a lot of people were/are. I didn't eat well, or in proportion for a long time because I didn't really know how to and adverse effects of such a lifestyle were not apparent in my childhood. I was very, very active as a kid, so I was burning off all the excess calories. But, then I left school and the exercise tapered off, but the diet remained unchanged. It started slowly at first, but lbs started to creep on, and then loads of lbs.

Since then I've had to re-educate myself with regards to food, and now eat a lot more 'real' (ie, non processed) food. I'm not overly strict and do eat processed stuff occasionally, but not very often. And I had to go through the whole 'diet/low fat food' phase to get here. I'm also exercising regularly again.

Don't forget that gaining weight is not only about hunger. Or poor food education. A lot of it is emotional. I lost all that weight, and maintained it for a couple years and then I had a really ****y and stressful year and used food as a comfort, in a big way. Things are on an even keel again now and so I re-started my healthy lifestyle (several weeks before I found MFP).

Just wanted to point out that becoming fat in the first instance, is more likely down to upbringing rather than difficulty sticking to a certain lifestyle. What you do about as an adult though, is all you.

Amandawith3kids

i'm sure what they mean to say is "since i've decided to commit to being healthy, it has been easy"

before, they ate what they wanted and didn't care, now that they made the commitment to being healthy, they realized how easy it is for them.... i am NOT one of those people, it is a struggle for me, but that's just my two cents.

THIS^^ i wasnt eating a bad diet, just too much. had no concept of portion sizes, or how much i was truly eating, and since i never learned that, i never lost the baby weight, or really did much in the way of exercising. now i'm learning that, and losing, without changing my entire diet. i had already cut out a lot of junk foods and dirty foods from my diet already, ages ago, but still ate too much. it hasnt been that hard to eat the correct portion of chicken breast or to limit myself to one serving of ice cream or just two oreos etc, although i do have trigger foods.

(my definition of clean: if my great grandmother could make it in her kitchen, then its clean. so corn syrup is ok, but high fructose corn syrup is not, or, eat food that remembers where it came from.)

daw0518

Great post, I totally agree. I ate way too many hot pockets yesterday. I was under my goal, but I felt like having junk.

On the same note, I also don't understand the "I struggle so hard to reach 1200 calories!" people.

Really? because I exercise a ridiculous amount of restraint every day to stay under 1600... That's why I was overweight before.

This is 100% me as well. The miracle days where I'm under my calorie goal effortlessly are few & far between. Most days, I'm fighting myself all evening .

I would also say though that changing my eating habits didn't seem to be as difficult this time around as I expected it to be. Maybe I was just ready for a change, and that made it seem easy. But I think that some people really do manage to make a lifestyle change, and once they do that, 'clean' eating is easier. I personally don't eat clean, I just eat more veggies now than I used to, and it's made all the difference for me & whether I'm under my calorie goal consistently or not!

pattyproulx

I started eating clean recently. I got fat after eating boxes of brownies, bags of cookies, 3 sandwiches in a day, anything and everything from the frozen section, pasta (mac and cheese and those sidekick type of things), chicken fingers, cheese and crackers (not in moderation), and eating fast food almost every day.

So eating clean made me lose weight because I'm not eating so much cr@p. 57lbs lost in 5.5 months. Yea I'll stick to eating clean.

actually it was a calorie deficet that made you lose weight....

sorry eating "clean" is a buzz word and will have no impact on weight loss if you don't do it in moderation too...

The difference is the calorie deficit is a result of eating clean. If you're eating to satiety and eating 'dirty' you'll eat a lot more than if you eat clean.

In the end, there is a caloric deficiency and that's why the weight is lost but it's not a forced deficiency and that makes a huge difference.

People only have so much willpower. If you're only staying under your calories because you stop yourself from eating (even when you're hungry), then you're going to go right back up once you stop counting calories.

People always say 'oh you'd gain weight if you ate 4000 calories/day of clean foods". Yes, that might be right, but good luck trying to reach that eating meat and vegetables. I could probably eat that in one meal going to McDonald's.

This also doesn't take into consideration the effect on BMR (and there's some good evidence that if you're hungry, your body is telling you you should eat, and if you don't eat, it negatively affects your BMR)

CarlaMichelle

Hey there lady!!! OK... you are right on the money with this question!! However, maybe those people used to have an unhealthy relationship with food and then had that Aha moment and changed... I will be totally honest and say i am 90% clean eating! I prepare only clean foods but i do eat at restaurants and i do go to freinds house for dinner etc. I will always moan when i think of eating a reece's peanut butter cup, but I will reserve eating them for special treats and i don't mean 4 times a year I mean maybe once a month or whatever and i am damn sure gonna have cake on my birthday and probably on my kids birthday too! BALANCE... lets chant this together... Balance your nutrition, treat yourself, be nice to yourself and love yourself no matter what you do. I can't say i have it all figured out all I can say is I'm on the right road.

jmv7117

Apologies for using 'fat', but overweight was too long to fit in the title.

I keep seeing so many threads about people who eat 'clean', avoid processed sugar, follow their hunger signs etc, and it seems so easy for them.

My question to those people is... if your relationship with food is so healthy... how did you get overweight in the first place?

I mean, I got fat because I love food, I'm obsessed with food (notice I didn't use 'addicted'), and it's just a huge part of my life. All my life I've just eaten what I wanted when I wanted it... I don't remember my parents ever telling me I couldn't have something. I just helped myself. I don't think I'll ever be able to just see food as sustenance... it's a pleasure. I've got much better at moderation and trying to make the most of my calories (taste-wise... I don't exactly meet my macros every day, lol), but I don't think the desire to eat more tasty food will ever go away. I'm aware it's going to be a life-long struggle.

Just really curious about this (and probably a bit jealous, lol. I wish I was one of those people for whom losing weight was easy).

Edited for bad, bad grammar.

I'm one of the so called clean eaters or should I say what many would consider clean eating. Two points. First, we have eaten this way for over 30 years. The only difference now is there are more food additives to avoid. Second, I have never been outside of what is considered the healthy weight range for my age and height. I joined MFP as part of my goal to get healthier. Clean eating does not mean you can't get 'fat' as you put it. It simply means you avoid certain food additives, pesticide residues and that type of thing. The focus in on the quality of food. Quantity of food is an entirely different thing. You can eat the healthiest food possible and still be overweight because you don't limit the quantity you eat.

Losing the weight has been easy for me likely because I do have a healthy relationship with food and understood that my main problem was not food but rather inactivity. I have gone from the high end of my healthy weight range to the low end without much effort other than increasing my activity level and being conscious of what I'm eating. I really haven't changed much with respect to what I eat other than boosting my protein. Unlike many, I don't have cravings for sweets because refined sugars have never played a huge role in our diet. I don't miss fast food because at best we may have it a couple of times a year when traveling. I don't have a lot of water retention problems because both my sugar and sodium intake is low. The thing is, I'm not trying to change the way I eat other that minor tweaking. Another thing that helps is my husband eats the same way I do so there is no problem with him enjoying a particular food that could be problematic during weight loss.

In my opinion, many start trying to lose weight without considering a long term fitness plan and they make drastic changes so both their bodies and minds rebel. A person who is used to eating 3,000 calories a day and who is getting a good portion of those calories from fast food or processed foods is going to have adjustments to make. The body is going to buck back with strong cravings, possible withdrawl symptoms like headaches and mood swings (aka hangry), and they are going to struggle to keep on track. That worsens if the losing weight is seen just as a diet and not a lifestyle change.

Urban_Princess

I started eating clean recently. I got fat after eating boxes of brownies, bags of cookies, 3 sandwiches in a day, anything and everything from the frozen section, pasta (mac and cheese and those sidekick type of things), chicken fingers, cheese and crackers (not in moderation), and eating fast food almost every day.

So eating clean made me lose weight because I'm not eating so much cr@p. 57lbs lost in 5.5 months. Yea I'll stick to eating clean.

actually it was a calorie deficet that made you lose weight....

sorry eating "clean" is a buzz word and will have no impact on weight loss if you don't do it in moderation too...

The difference is the calorie deficit is a result of eating clean. If you're eating to satiety and eating 'dirty' you'll eat a lot more than if you eat clean.

In the end, there is a caloric deficiency and that's why the weight is lost but it's not a forced deficiency and that makes a huge difference.

People only have so much willpower. If you're only staying under your calories because you stop yourself from eating (even when you're hungry), then you're going to go right back up once you stop counting calories.

People always say 'oh you'd gain weight if you ate 4000 calories/day of clean foods". Yes, that might be right, but good luck trying to reach that eating meat and vegetables. I could probably eat that in one meal going to McDonald's.

This also doesn't take into consideration the effect on BMR (and there's some good evidence that if you're hungry, your body is telling you you should eat, and if you don't eat, it negatively affects your BMR)

True. Sorry I guess I put it hand in hand. I mean in terms of quantity. 2 plates of veggies and meat (and I feel ridiculously full) or a box of brownies for dinner (where I still want to eat more). You absolutely need a calorie deficit to lose weight.

I should also note the other benefits that I experienced since eating clean: lower cholesterol, reduced signs of diabetes, hair growth