Quick way to get the weight going down!!

ndj1979

I wholeheartedly believe a calorie deficiency is the true method to healthy weight loss. There are people with all of the above health issues plus more in my social circle. Therefore, I truly understand their battle with weight loss. Yes, it is a challenge and I don’t think anyone is implying otherwise or implying the right combination of food along with the deficiency isn’t important. Nonetheless, they are still losing weight because they are eating at a calorie deficiency despite their medication. Yes, it took several trial and error sessions to achieve the correct balance of medication and diet, especially for my godmother who is taking 13 different medications. They just had to find a deficiency that worked for them. This is the reason MFP allow users to change the recommendations for macronutrients and micronutrients because some people will require different means to achieve the same goal.

True, true. But, from what I've seen, the deficit argument isn't one where no deficit is important or necessary to some extent. It's more along the lines that a deficit may not necessarily equal weight loss depending on other factors, or affect weight loss considerably differently. Because if it was just about a deficit, then macros wouldn't matter and they do matter to a lot of people, for very good reason.

That essentially the straightforward CICO calculations require certain assumptions, and when those assumptions are no longer true, the balace of the equation shifts or there are extra factors the equation does not account for -- like when you see dramatically different weight loss for insulin sensitive and insulin resistant women based on different macros of diets that are calorically equivalent.

And the CICO purists will not acknowledge this or at least most of them don't seem to. Or they extrapolate into extreme, irrelevant arguments like "oh so you can create mass on a calorie deficit?" It's absurd.

Even people who don’t have health problems have to achieve their deficiency different ways. For example, I don’t have any health problems but I need to drink water to maximize my weight loss efforts. I have experimented with this some many times so I know this is the way for me. The scale barely move if I don’t drink enough water. Other posters don’t need to drink water the way I do and they are losing just fine. It all boils down to the method that is healthy and works for the individual.

The balance of equation absolutely will shift when medical complications are involved but the underlying calorie deficiency still needs to exist. My godmother is limited to 105gm of carbs a day because of her insulin issue. Sometimes, she has to do less if her asthma is acting up really bad and her steroids have to be increased. On any given day, I eat twice that amount and both of us are losing weight. Our macros are way different. Usually, she eats more protein than me. Each person has to take stock in their own health and pursue a healthy plan that is best for them. This is the reason people should always consult with their doctors before starting any weight management plan. Yes, your primary doctor may be limited in weight loss knowledge but he or she could refer you to the proper nutritionist and dietitian who specialize in people in your situation. There isn’t a one size fit all weight management plan anywhere.

I posted this on page two of the thread, but will repost it here:

just for fun I pulled this off a study that I had archived about calorie deficit and patients with diabetes….

This study demonstrates that short-term treatment with a very-low-calorie diet in both obese diabetic and nondiabetic subjects results in: (1) safe and effective weight loss associated with the normalization of elevated glucose and lipid levels, (2) a large individual variability in total nitrogen loss determined principally by the initial lean body mass, and (3) progressive increments in the contribution of fat to weight loss with stable caloric requirements and no evidence of a hypometabolic response.
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/35/2/155.short

so yea, calorie deficit does work for obese diabetic people….

scubasuenc

As a Type 2 diabetic I am one of those hormonal special snowflakes, however I still believe it is a calories in vs calories out. I take medication to make my body more sensitive to insulin (behave like a more normal body) and I play with my macros to keep my blood sugar under control. By keeping my blood sugar under control I help my body behave more like a 'normal' body.

However, it still comes down to calories in vs calories out. I track my daily calories in and calories out and calculate the deficit. Weekly I figure out how many pounds that adds up to. I then compare the 'predicted' weekly loss to the actual weekly loss, and guess what, most weeks they are pretty close. I have good data going back to January. Cumulatively MFP predicted a 42 lb loss based on the daily deficits. The actual loss has been 44.8 lbs. I also use my deficits to calculate my TDEE, comes out very close to the TDEE as predicted by the various formulas.

I were to continue I taking the same medication and macro ratios but eat more than my maintenance level, I would gain weight.

If you have a hormonal/metabolic issue, you need to work with a doctor to get the right medications to control that. Also look into macro combinations that might help your condition. However ultimately the calorie deficit is what makes you lose weight.

ahoier

Get a good digital scale.....buy it from a store with a good return policy (if you get one and find it sucks.....). Weigh everything, down to the grams.....this is when I lost the most. lol. When my scale broke (it's now on order......) I've noticed my weight not dropping as much as it was....when I was consistently measuring everything.....cheese, spices (even cinnamon has some calories), etc. I've learned to NOT trust the "measuring cup" - go by the weight....even when I first measured my protein powder out, I couldn't believe how "off" the measuring cup was...I was basically weighing everything.

lindsey1979

I wholeheartedly believe a calorie deficiency is the true method to healthy weight loss. There are people with all of the above health issues plus more in my social circle. Therefore, I truly understand their battle with weight loss. Yes, it is a challenge and I don’t think anyone is implying otherwise or implying the right combination of food along with the deficiency isn’t important. Nonetheless, they are still losing weight because they are eating at a calorie deficiency despite their medication. Yes, it took several trial and error sessions to achieve the correct balance of medication and diet, especially for my godmother who is taking 13 different medications. They just had to find a deficiency that worked for them. This is the reason MFP allow users to change the recommendations for macronutrients and micronutrients because some people will require different means to achieve the same goal.

True, true. But, from what I've seen, the deficit argument isn't one where no deficit is important or necessary to some extent. It's more along the lines that a deficit may not necessarily equal weight loss depending on other factors, or affect weight loss considerably differently. Because if it was just about a deficit, then macros wouldn't matter and they do matter to a lot of people, for very good reason.

That essentially the straightforward CICO calculations require certain assumptions, and when those assumptions are no longer true, the balace of the equation shifts or there are extra factors the equation does not account for -- like when you see dramatically different weight loss for insulin sensitive and insulin resistant women based on different macros of diets that are calorically equivalent.

And the CICO purists will not acknowledge this or at least most of them don't seem to. Or they extrapolate into extreme, irrelevant arguments like "oh so you can create mass on a calorie deficit?" It's absurd.

Even people who don’t have health problems have to achieve their deficiency different ways. For example, I don’t have any health problems but I need to drink water to maximize my weight loss efforts. I have experimented with this some many times so I know this is the way for me. The scale barely move if I don’t drink enough water. Other posters don’t need to drink water the way I do and they are losing just fine. It all boils down to the method that is healthy and works for the individual.

The balance of equation absolutely will shift when medical complications are involved but the underlying calorie deficiency still needs to exist. My godmother is limited to 105gm of carbs a day because of her insulin issue. Sometimes, she has to do less if her asthma is acting up really bad and her steroids have to be increased. On any given day, I eat twice that amount and both of us are losing weight. Our macros are way different. Usually, she eats more protein than me. Each person has to take stock in their own health and pursue a healthy plan that is best for them. This is the reason people should always consult with their doctors before starting any weight management plan. Yes, your primary doctor may be limited in weight loss knowledge but he or she could refer you to the proper nutritionist and dietitian who specialize in people in your situation. There isn’t a one size fit all weight management plan anywhere.

Oh, I absolutely agree with you. I'm not saying that deficit isn't necessary or isn't helpful in some ways. But how that is achieved varies greatly for different people to actually result in weight loss or maximize weight loss. And, for some people, they can be in a deficit and still not lose due to their own issues, like your grandmother with her insulin. Creating a deficit will not just be enough on its own, if you don't also restrict carbs. I know that as well as I have insulin resistance.

Some will say that macros make no difference -- it's all about calories in-calories out. And that's simply not the truth for a lot of people, and for good reason.

lemon629

I never said I was debating or not debating this...I am not debating the CICO thing with you.

I was just clarifying your numbers...since you left important facts out.

such as losing weight can help the prediabetics...prevent or delay...and may never have to deal with insulin etc.
such as 12% "WILL" develop thyroid issues but not neccessarily hypo..but could be hyper...which isn't an issue for weight loss...adrenal issues usually cause problems with keeping weight on, cushings causes weight gain in the face etc but is rare 10-15 in every million...

Reality is perception and without all the facts and data realitiy (perceptions) can be skewed.

These issues are not as common as you want other to believe....nor do they all make losing weight difficult...and there are lots of success stories to prove that as well....

The point is, many people in the US have pre-diabetes. The statistics you cite are the same as hers.

It is true that losing weight can help reverse the disease process. That is not disputed, either.

However, the fact that losing weight helps prediabetes doesn't change the fact that insulin resistance makes it more difficult to lose weight. It just means it is more important to work at it. People with pre-diabetes are developing insulin resistance. They just aren't in full-blown diabetes yet. Tracking their macros and reducing carbs and added sugars will help them be more successful with weight loss and also improving insulin sensitivity/overall health than just a plain deficit.

lindsey1979

As a Type 2 diabetic I am one of those hormonal special snowflakes, however I still believe it is a calories in vs calories out. I take medication to make my body more sensitive to insulin (behave like a more normal body) and I play with my macros to keep my blood sugar under control. By keeping my blood sugar under control I help my body behave more like a 'normal' body.

However, it still comes down to calories in vs calories out. I track my daily calories in and calories out and calculate the deficit. Weekly I figure out how many pounds that adds up to. I then compare the 'predicted' weekly loss to the actual weekly loss, and guess what, most weeks they are pretty close. I have good data going back to January. Cumulatively MFP predicted a 42 lb loss based on the daily deficits. The actual loss has been 44.8 lbs. I also use my deficits to calculate my TDEE, comes out very close to the TDEE as predicted by the various formulas.

I were to continue I taking the same medication and macro ratios but eat more than my maintenance level, I would gain weight.

If you have a hormonal/metabolic issue, you need to work with a doctor to get the right medications to control that. Also look into macro combinations that might help your condition. However ultimately the calorie deficit is what makes you lose weight.

Right, but if you didn't have those medications, would the same deficit be creating the same results? Likely not.

And that's the issue I have with the CICO purists -- because if you do have certain issues, creating a deficit is not going to work in the same way, if at all, as it would for a person without those issues. Depending on the issue, medication may be required or simply an adjustment of macros.

So, personally, I wish people would say something more like that. CICO is great and if you're really confident in your calorie tracking and energy expenditure, and still not seeing the results you expect (at least in the general ballpark) then you may want to see a doctor because something is up. Then figure it out from there...

But too many here just say mean things to them -- that they're delusional about their calorie counting, they're lying, they're wrong, they're "special snowflakes", etc. And, that's just not helpful. In fact, it could be really hurtful because some will just try to create a bigger deficit (like I did) rather than finding out the true underlying issues that's impacting their weight loss and could be really injuring themselves as a result.

lindsey1979

I never said I was debating or not debating this...I am not debating the CICO thing with you.

I was just clarifying your numbers...since you left important facts out.

such as losing weight can help the prediabetics...prevent or delay...and may never have to deal with insulin etc.
such as 12% "WILL" develop thyroid issues but not neccessarily hypo..but could be hyper...which isn't an issue for weight loss...adrenal issues usually cause problems with keeping weight on, cushings causes weight gain in the face etc but is rare 10-15 in every million...

Reality is perception and without all the facts and data realitiy (perceptions) can be skewed.

These issues are not as common as you want other to believe....nor do they all make losing weight difficult...and there are lots of success stories to prove that as well....

The point is, many people in the US have pre-diabetes. The statistics you cite are the same as hers.

It is true that losing weight can help reverse the disease process. That is not disputed, either.

However, the fact that losing weight helps prediabetes doesn't change the fact that insulin resistance makes it more difficult to lose weight. It just means it is more important to work at it. People with pre-diabetes are developing insulin resistance. They just aren't in full-blown diabetes yet. Tracking their macros and reducing carbs and added sugars will help them be more successful with weight loss and also improving insulin sensitivity/overall health than just a plain deficit.

Thank you.

ndj1979

As a Type 2 diabetic I am one of those hormonal special snowflakes, however I still believe it is a calories in vs calories out. I take medication to make my body more sensitive to insulin (behave like a more normal body) and I play with my macros to keep my blood sugar under control. By keeping my blood sugar under control I help my body behave more like a 'normal' body.

However, it still comes down to calories in vs calories out. I track my daily calories in and calories out and calculate the deficit. Weekly I figure out how many pounds that adds up to. I then compare the 'predicted' weekly loss to the actual weekly loss, and guess what, most weeks they are pretty close. I have good data going back to January. Cumulatively MFP predicted a 42 lb loss based on the daily deficits. The actual loss has been 44.8 lbs. I also use my deficits to calculate my TDEE, comes out very close to the TDEE as predicted by the various formulas.

I were to continue I taking the same medication and macro ratios but eat more than my maintenance level, I would gain weight.

If you have a hormonal/metabolic issue, you need to work with a doctor to get the right medications to control that. Also look into macro combinations that might help your condition. However ultimately the calorie deficit is what makes you lose weight.

Right, but if you didn't have those medications, would the same deficit be creating the same results? Likely not.

And that's the issue I have with the CICO purists -- because if you do have certain issues, creating a deficit is not going to work in the same way, if at all, as it would for a person without those issues. Depending on the issue, medication may be required or simply an adjustment of macros.

So, personally, I wish people would say something more like that. CICO is great and if you're really confident in your calorie tracking and energy expenditure, and still not seeing the results you expect (at least in the general ballpark) then you may want to see a doctor because something is up. Then figure it out from there...

But too many here just say mean things to them -- that they're delusional about their calorie counting, they're lying, they're wrong, they're "special snowflakes", etc. And, that's just not helpful. In fact, it could be really hurtful because some will just try to create a bigger deficit (like I did) rather than finding out the true underlying issues that's impacting their weight loss and could be really injuring themselves as a result.

when has anyone advocating calories in vs calories out not qualified that statement with "unless you have an underlying medical condition, or some kind of carbs sensitivity then you should go see a DR.." The point is that even after you go to the DR that you are going to have to have a calorie deficit to lose weight. That is what that original person is saying and that is what the study I posted earlier shows. Again, why do you keep ignoring this??? No one is saying that a medical condition won't make your loss slower, what they are saying is that you still need a deficit…

good lord, i feel like a broken record...

lindsey1979

As a Type 2 diabetic I am one of those hormonal special snowflakes, however I still believe it is a calories in vs calories out. I take medication to make my body more sensitive to insulin (behave like a more normal body) and I play with my macros to keep my blood sugar under control. By keeping my blood sugar under control I help my body behave more like a 'normal' body.

However, it still comes down to calories in vs calories out. I track my daily calories in and calories out and calculate the deficit. Weekly I figure out how many pounds that adds up to. I then compare the 'predicted' weekly loss to the actual weekly loss, and guess what, most weeks they are pretty close. I have good data going back to January. Cumulatively MFP predicted a 42 lb loss based on the daily deficits. The actual loss has been 44.8 lbs. I also use my deficits to calculate my TDEE, comes out very close to the TDEE as predicted by the various formulas.

I were to continue I taking the same medication and macro ratios but eat more than my maintenance level, I would gain weight.

If you have a hormonal/metabolic issue, you need to work with a doctor to get the right medications to control that. Also look into macro combinations that might help your condition. However ultimately the calorie deficit is what makes you lose weight.

Right, but if you didn't have those medications, would the same deficit be creating the same results? Likely not.

And that's the issue I have with the CICO purists -- because if you do have certain issues, creating a deficit is not going to work in the same way, if at all, as it would for a person without those issues. Depending on the issue, medication may be required or simply an adjustment of macros.

So, personally, I wish people would say something more like that. CICO is great and if you're really confident in your calorie tracking and energy expenditure, and still not seeing the results you expect (at least in the general ballpark) then you may want to see a doctor because something is up. Then figure it out from there...

But too many here just say mean things to them -- that they're delusional about their calorie counting, they're lying, they're wrong, they're "special snowflakes", etc. And, that's just not helpful. In fact, it could be really hurtful because some will just try to create a bigger deficit (like I did) rather than finding out the true underlying issues that's impacting their weight loss and could be really injuring themselves as a result.

when has anyone advocating calories in vs calories out not qualified that statement with "unless you have an underlying medical condition, or some kind of carbs sensitivity then you should go see a DR.." The point is that even after you go to the DR that you are going to have to have a calorie deficit to lose weight. That is what that original person is saying and that is what the study I posted earlier shows. Again, why do you keep ignoring this??? No one is saying that a medical condition won't make your loss slower, what they are saying is that you still need a deficit…

good lord, i feel like a broken record...

Well, we're obviously reading different people. Some certainly do not say that (some do -- but I'm not referencing those people). They tell people that it's pretty darn rare to have a medical condition that would affect it -- some go even as far to say that it's less than 1% -- and tell people that they're not "special snowflakes". They full on say, "hey, if you're not losing weight, you aren't in a deficit. Period." And, that's just not correct all the time.

There are more than a mere 1% that have issues that affect the whole CICO calculation. And some don't acknowledge it at all. That it's all about a deficit and that's it.

Perhaps if you focused on reading comprehension and would just respond to actual arguments/assertions, you'd have an easier time of this.

lindsey1979

You need more than just a calorie deficit, otherwise I would weigh about 10 grams by now.

WHAT you eat is more important. I actually found that I stalled when cutting calories too much, then lost again when I upped my calories to a smaller deficit.

Cut out carbs, especially over processed crap, watch your protein and don't have too much of it based on your activity level and eat plenty of good fats (from meat and dairy mainly) to see your weight come off.

You could also be retaining water due to dehydration so drink plenty of water!

It may work for you, because you are in a deficit but carbs do not need to be dropped to very low levels to lose weight. Processed food does not need to be eliminated. I have absolutely no problem eating a bagel every morning and ice cream every night along with plenty of other types of carbs daily and dropping weight just like plenty of other people do. If you want to cut carbs to lower levels then fine but it's not necessary. Caloric deficit is necessary.

And once again someone states calories in calories out is what it's about and then people come in crying about thyroid and diabetes issues. People constantly keep saying if you have no medical conditions that need to be addressed first that calories in calories out is what is important and the rebuttal is "well its fine if it works for you but if someone has diabetes, hypothyroidism it's different". People keep saying people with medical conditions have other obstacles and the other side says, yea but what about the people with medical conditions. This argument is getting old already. Arguing in circles for no damn reason.

Look if you have medical conditions, get them addressed then start eating at a deficit. Till then stop complaining about how you are different because of your medical condition. Go get it addressed and cut out the pity party.

To the person that said that if she eats below tdee and it's not clean and gains weight but has to eat clean and under 1000 to lose weight. Please work at it harder because your statements make no sense. Just full of excuses.

If you don't like what I said that's fine. I'm not here to be your friend or hold your hand. Keep looking for people in life to show you pity and tell you you're special if that's what you need. But in the end, eat less food.

It's so sad that people can't understand the difference between pity, compassion and logic.

The medical condition argument isn't about pity. It's about information and understanding how the body works. People that already know they have a medical condition aren't the people that the advice is aimed at. It's the people that have a medical condition but don't know it yet -- the UNDIAGNOSED people.

Because there are reasons that a deficit doesn't work well, or at all, for some people. And telling those people, "hey, there may be a reason for it, go talk to your doctor" is helpful advice. Telling them that they're just looking for pity and or to be coddled is not. And it's also WRONG.

That's the issue a lot of people have with this malarky you and others on this site push with your black-and-white approach.

dixiewhiskey

That's the issue a lot of people have with this malarky you and others on this site push with your black-and-white approach.

It's the internet.. how else does one approach and respond to words on a screen? Every day, people ask questions that they should ask someone who has given a decade or more of their life in the name of medicine and wellbeing. Dude with the six pack has a point.. a few actually

lindsey1979

You need more than just a calorie deficit, otherwise I would weigh about 10 grams by now.

WHAT you eat is more important. I actually found that I stalled when cutting calories too much, then lost again when I upped my calories to a smaller deficit.

Cut out carbs, especially over processed crap, watch your protein and don't have too much of it based on your activity level and eat plenty of good fats (from meat and dairy mainly) to see your weight come off.

You could also be retaining water due to dehydration so drink plenty of water!

It may work for you, because you are in a deficit but carbs do not need to be dropped to very low levels to lose weight. Processed food does not need to be eliminated. I have absolutely no problem eating a bagel every morning and ice cream every night along with plenty of other types of carbs daily and dropping weight just like plenty of other people do. If you want to cut carbs to lower levels then fine but it's not necessary. Caloric deficit is necessary.

And once again someone states calories in calories out is what it's about and then people come in crying about thyroid and diabetes issues. People constantly keep saying if you have no medical conditions that need to be addressed first that calories in calories out is what is important and the rebuttal is "well its fine if it works for you but if someone has diabetes, hypothyroidism it's different". People keep saying people with medical conditions have other obstacles and the other side says, yea but what about the people with medical conditions. This argument is getting old already. Arguing in circles for no damn reason.

Look if you have medical conditions, get them addressed then start eating at a deficit. Till then stop complaining about how you are different because of your medical condition. Go get it addressed and cut out the pity party.

To the person that said that if she eats below tdee and it's not clean and gains weight but has to eat clean and under 1000 to lose weight. Please work at it harder because your statements make no sense. Just full of excuses.

If you don't like what I said that's fine. I'm not here to be your friend or hold your hand. Keep looking for people in life to show you pity and tell you you're special if that's what you need. But in the end, eat less food.

It's so sad that people can't understand the difference between pity, compassion and logic.

The medical condition argument isn't about pity. It's about information and understanding how the body works. People that already know they have a medical condition aren't the people that the advice is aimed at. It's the people that have a medical condition but don't know it yet -- the UNDIAGNOSED people.

Because there are reasons that a deficit doesn't work well, or at all, for some people. And telling those people, "hey, there may be a reason for it, go talk to your doctor" is helpful advice. Telling them that they're just looking for pity and or to be coddled is not. And it's also WRONG.

That's the issue a lot of people have with this malarky you and others on this site push with your black-and-white approach.

What you are advocating is for everyone who can't lose weight to do is run out and have all sorts of medical test done to rule out health problems. But if these people how many actually put in the real effort to lose weight? Actually record everything? Don't talk free weekend or days and blow deficits? Actually eat below tdee? Maybe someone should encourage these people to try that first then see about medical conditions instead of the other way around. Yes let's all get tests done and abuse our health care system that is already being abused by so many people out there. And who pays the bill? People like me, people who work hard or have 2 jobs like me and pay high taxes.

You're worried about all the undiagnosed. I'm worried about all the lazy people who give half effort through life then complain why they can't succeed. You may think me saying people want to be coddled is wrong, I disagree. People need to stop feeling sorry for themselves.

The only arguments you ever have on here are on this topic and it gets old. You could maybe share your experiences with others on how you hit your weight goal after being on this site for 4 years and dealing with medical issues instead of just arguing with the masses about calories in calories out.

No, I'm not. In fact, I've never advocated that. I've been a big proponent of using a food scale and careful calorie tracking. I think that's essential and if someone isn't doing it, then they need to do that first to be sure of their calories. I'm also a big advocate of tracking exercise calories or those armbands that help with that, though I realize the CO part of the equation is much harder to determine.

What I'm opposed to is this bs circular reasoning that if you're not losing then you're not in a deficit. Because that's what some people like you say directly to people, even after they've given considerable detail on how precise and accurate they're attempting to be with their measurements. And the comments quickly devolve into some incredibly disrespectful, sometimes downright nasty comments about how they're lazy, they're delusional, they want pity, etc. And, that's just not true. There are legitimate reasons why they're not losing as expected and it's not all that rare.

So, to sum up, since you have difficulty deducing this on your own, I'm advocating for:
(1) Careful calorie tracking (food scale!)
(2) Careful calorie expenditure calculations (to the extent possible)
(3) If results aren't coming with 1 and 2, then go talk to doctor or investigate other reasons (i.e. do NOT start calling such people lazy, looking for pity, wanting to be coddled, liars, crazy, delusional, etc.)

Not that hard, right?

ndj1979

As a Type 2 diabetic I am one of those hormonal special snowflakes, however I still believe it is a calories in vs calories out. I take medication to make my body more sensitive to insulin (behave like a more normal body) and I play with my macros to keep my blood sugar under control. By keeping my blood sugar under control I help my body behave more like a 'normal' body.

However, it still comes down to calories in vs calories out. I track my daily calories in and calories out and calculate the deficit. Weekly I figure out how many pounds that adds up to. I then compare the 'predicted' weekly loss to the actual weekly loss, and guess what, most weeks they are pretty close. I have good data going back to January. Cumulatively MFP predicted a 42 lb loss based on the daily deficits. The actual loss has been 44.8 lbs. I also use my deficits to calculate my TDEE, comes out very close to the TDEE as predicted by the various formulas.

I were to continue I taking the same medication and macro ratios but eat more than my maintenance level, I would gain weight.

If you have a hormonal/metabolic issue, you need to work with a doctor to get the right medications to control that. Also look into macro combinations that might help your condition. However ultimately the calorie deficit is what makes you lose weight.

Right, but if you didn't have those medications, would the same deficit be creating the same results? Likely not.

And that's the issue I have with the CICO purists -- because if you do have certain issues, creating a deficit is not going to work in the same way, if at all, as it would for a person without those issues. Depending on the issue, medication may be required or simply an adjustment of macros.

So, personally, I wish people would say something more like that. CICO is great and if you're really confident in your calorie tracking and energy expenditure, and still not seeing the results you expect (at least in the general ballpark) then you may want to see a doctor because something is up. Then figure it out from there...

But too many here just say mean things to them -- that they're delusional about their calorie counting, they're lying, they're wrong, they're "special snowflakes", etc. And, that's just not helpful. In fact, it could be really hurtful because some will just try to create a bigger deficit (like I did) rather than finding out the true underlying issues that's impacting their weight loss and could be really injuring themselves as a result.

when has anyone advocating calories in vs calories out not qualified that statement with "unless you have an underlying medical condition, or some kind of carbs sensitivity then you should go see a DR.." The point is that even after you go to the DR that you are going to have to have a calorie deficit to lose weight. That is what that original person is saying and that is what the study I posted earlier shows. Again, why do you keep ignoring this??? No one is saying that a medical condition won't make your loss slower, what they are saying is that you still need a deficit…

good lord, i feel like a broken record...

Well, we're obviously reading different people. Some certainly do not say that (some do -- but I'm not referencing those people). They tell people that it's pretty darn rare to have a medical condition that would affect it -- some go even as far to say that it's less than 1% -- and tell people that they're not "special snowflakes". They full on say, "hey, if you're not losing weight, you aren't in a deficit. Period." And, that's just not correct all the time.

There are more than a mere 1% that have issues that affect the whole CICO calculation. And some don't acknowledge it at all. That it's all about a deficit and that's it.

Perhaps if you focused on reading comprehension and would just respond to actual arguments/assertions, you'd have an easier time of this.

why do you insist on ending all your posts with the basic premise that you are smarter then everyone else, and we are all too stupid to understand what it is you are trying to say??? It is so predictable that I can pretty much know what your response is before you even comment.

I don't know why you will not admit that even for people with medical conditions that they need to have a calorie deficit to lose weight? I even went so far as to post a study on the topic, and someone with diabetes commented that after being diagnosed, and put on medicine, that they still needed a calorie deficit to lose weight. So at the end of the day - for everyone - it boils down to calories in vs calories out.

Yes, some people have a medical condition ..yes, some people have a harder time calculating deficit level etc, etc..but at the end oft the davit is still about being in a deficit. Do you not want to admit that because you will have to admit to being wrong???

Branstin

Oh, I absolutely agree with you. I'm not saying that deficit isn't necessary or isn't helpful in some ways. But how that is achieved varies greatly for different people to actually result in weight loss or maximize weight loss. And, for some people, they can be in a deficit and still not lose due to their own issues, like your grandmother with her insulin. Creating a deficit will not just be enough on its own, if you don't also restrict carbs. I know that as well as I have insulin resistance.

Some will say that macros make no difference -- it's all about calories in-calories out. And that's simply not the truth for a lot of people, and for good reason.

From my observations with posting on various weight loss sites is that people tend to give information based on their own experiences. For example, if I were to start a thread and state that I haven't loss any weight for a month. Peoples' replies would range anywhere from water retention to calorie deficiency to exercise to muscle mass to lack of water. Now, if I post the same thread and add that I had X health issue and haven't loss any weight in a month, the replies would be much different. I am not bashing anyone but if the OP doesn't specify any health conditions then it's very hard for the average poster to give the correct information in most cases. Therefore, in trying to be helpful posters will project their own experiences.

lindsey1979

why do you insist on ending all your posts with the basic premise that you are smarter then everyone else, and we are all too stupid to understand what it is you are trying to say??? It is so predictable that I can pretty much know what your response is before you even comment.

I don't know why you will not admit that even for people with medical conditions that they need to have a calorie deficit to lose weight? I even went so far as to post a study on the topic, and someone with diabetes commented that after being diagnosed, and put on medicine, that they still needed a calorie deficit to lose weight. So at the end of the day - for everyone - it boils down to calories in vs calories out.

Yes, some people have a medical condition ..yes, some people have a harder time calculating deficit level etc, etc..but at the end oft the davit is still about being in a deficit. Do you not want to admit that because you will have to admit to being wrong???

Man, you struggle. I never stated that a deficit wasn't necessary, but merely that people can be in a deficit and not lose weight. So saying that if you're not losing weight = not in an deficit isn't necessary true. You can be in a caloric deficit and not lose weight or lose at a dramatically slower rate than expected -- that doesn't mean that your deficit is not calculated correctly necessarily (it could, but there can also be other factors that affect that).

Do you need a deficit to lose weight? Generally, yes. Can you be in a deficit and not lose weight? Yes, if you have an underlying condition that affects that -- like insulin resistance. You want direct associations in both directions and it doesn't work that way. You keep trying to twist or misrepresent my assertions into arguments that I never made so you can faux argue against them. That too is soooo predictable.

There are plenty of smart people on this site. You, on the other hand, struggle with some very basic issues. And since you're such a jerk so often, I have no problem responding to your ignorant arrogance with condescension.

Oh, by the way, how has your search into my false accusations about my education turn out? Have you managed to find anything where I said anything other than having a bachelors in integrative biology and am a lawyer (i.e have a JD)? Oh, no, not yet....ready to eat your words and apologize?

KariOrtiz2014

If you are logging accurately and consistently and you are in a caloric deficit, you will lose weight. You just have to be patient.

Are you eating back your exercise calories? You may be overestimating them, which can stall weight loss. Many people try to eat 50% of their exercise calories back, or they use the TDEE method. Otherwise, lack of weight loss is often in water retention - make sure you're eating your fruits and drinking enough water each day, because it makes a difference.

THIS!!

Fullsterkur_woman

What I'm opposed to is this bs circular reasoning that if you're not losing then you're not in a deficit. Because that's what some people like you say directly to people, even after they've given considerable detail on how precise and accurate they're attempting to be with their measurements.

But... it's an irrefutable scientific fact that if you're not losing then you're not in a deficit. You could be accurate as possible in your logging and precise to a degree that would seem obsessive to the most detail-oriented scientist, but that doesn't change the fact that the calories-out side of the equation and the outcome on the scale are telling you you're not in a deficit.

I'm a pretty big chick, and I train most days of the week. My TDEE "should be" higher than it is. But I have clinical depression, so my TDEE is not higher than it is... It's a sad fact, but if I want to lose weight, I have to drop my calories lower than what every calculator says I "should be" eating. And that is a true fact whether I eyeball my portions or whether I whip out my pocket food scale everywhere I go and pick my food apart ingredient by ingredient to log it (which I have done).

It doesn't mean CICO is wrong. It just means that, given the CI and the results on the scale, the CO term is lower than expected. That doesn't negate the fundamental underlying scientific truth.