Can a female get bigger muscles without supplements?

amusedmonkey

I was reading a thread about a female who says she has gained a lot of muscle in a short time. Now I don't believe this is the case, but it made me curious.

I'm a 5'6 female who is naturally strong and with genetics that make me bigger framed and a bit more muscular than the usual person of my age. I'm severely overweight so you can't tell, but a look at my forearm which does not carry a lot of fat should be a good indication.

Anyway. I know that with a drastic amount of weight loss comes the loose skin, and my upper arms look like they will be a problem area. I was wondering if a female can gain a considerable amount of muscle size without resorting to dangerous supplements and hormones. It may be a way for me to "fill up" that skin gap somewhat when I reach my goal weight. Not going for that almost manly body-builder look, just some substance to minimize the problem a bit.

JoRocka

yes- it's called bulking- you can ABSOLUTELY put on some size- but you have to work for it. It's just not that easy.

lift heavy- and eat all the things.

Leadfoot_Lewis

The only way you can naturally get bigger muscles is by eating at a surplus and lifting heavy e.g. in the 3-5 rep range. Even then, it is very difficult.

Also steroids are much different than supplements you can buy at your local GNC store. Some supplements are very good (Creatine, Beta Alanine, BCAAs) but the are only aids and are useless without putting in the hard work at the gym.

amusedmonkey

Thank you both for the advice. I'm a long way from starting, since I still have too much weight to lose but it got me curious. I know, of course it's a lot of hard work I was just thinking if it was possible for a female to bulk without steroids. Something like the arm you have as your profile picture (or close to it) would be perfect.

erickirb

The only way you can naturally get bigger muscles is by eating at a surplus and lifting heavy e.g. in the 3-5 rep range. Even then, it is very difficult.

Also steroids are much different than supplements you can buy at your local GNC store. Some supplements are very good (Creatine, Beta Alanine, BCAAs) but the are only aids and are useless without putting in the hard work at the gym.

Though I agree with most of this, I will point out that you will gain more size working in the 10-15 rep range, than <5 reps.

mattbrumfield

Women generally lack the testosterone levels needed to add bulk muscle like a man without steroids.

Strokingdiction

The only way you can naturally get bigger muscles is by eating at a surplus and lifting heavy e.g. in the 3-5 rep range. Even then, it is very difficult.

Also steroids are much different than supplements you can buy at your local GNC store. Some supplements are very good (Creatine, Beta Alanine, BCAAs) but the are only aids and are useless without putting in the hard work at the gym.

Though I agree with most of this, I will point out that you will gain more size working in the 10-15 rep range, than <5 reps.

I haven't heard that one. 10-15 reps often gets someone into the cardio range for lifting whereas 5 or lower will build the most muscle and strength. I'd love to see a reference that contradicts my ever changing knowledge base.

caseys29

Thank you both for the advice. I'm a long way from starting, since I still have too much weight to lose but it got me curious. I know, of course it's a lot of hard work I was just thinking if it was possible for a female to bulk without steroids. Something like the arm you have as your profile picture (or close to it) would be perfect.

Start lifting now! I still have about 100 pounds to lose, but I've been lifting pretty much since I started losing weight. There's no point in waiting - you might as well try to keep as much muscle mass as possible. Despite having lots of fat to lose, I'm already seeing definition, especially in lower fat areas like my shoulders.

mayflowermn

I like to think I have pretty good sized muscles in my arms and shoulders and I am supplement/steroid free (my profile pic is truly me). My legs are not as intensely defined though as my upper body, but working on that.

I've tended to work in the 8-12 rep range since I started lifting weights with the exception of doing 5 X 5 Stronglifts a few months ago.

servicedograiser

I too am a sturdy girl with thin-ish arms, a bmi of 27.6 on my 5'3" frame at 210 lbs...( 2 of 3 bmi calculators say (not the army one) I have 150 lbs with of lean muscle. I find that my cybex machines with medium light weights 30 reps and water jogging/ treading water, and using the arm poles on an exercise bike or elliptical take away my flaps. I am not looking to build bunchy muscles, more long lean strength. I increased my protein to a minimum of 90. realize that I will never be 115. I have found that it takes time for my fat patches to relocate and then shrink and then tone.

erickirb

The only way you can naturally get bigger muscles is by eating at a surplus and lifting heavy e.g. in the 3-5 rep range. Even then, it is very difficult.

Also steroids are much different than supplements you can buy at your local GNC store. Some supplements are very good (Creatine, Beta Alanine, BCAAs) but the are only aids and are useless without putting in the hard work at the gym.

Though I agree with most of this, I will point out that you will gain more size working in the 10-15 rep range, than <5 reps.

I haven't heard that one. 10-15 reps often gets someone into the cardio range for lifting whereas 5 or lower will build the most muscle and strength. I'd love to see a reference that contradicts my ever changing knowledge base.

Nope, strength gains in the 1-5 rep range, which does not build very much muscle, as the muscle does not get enough time under tension, a good combo of size and strength 8-12, going for size 10-15, endurance is 15+ reps.

Go look at any body building program usually in the 8-15 rep ranges, whereas power lifting range 1-6 rep ranges. The book starting strength gets into this a bit, has a chart etc. Mark Rippetoe knows his stuff.

No_Finish_Line

don't think of supplements as anything other then convience food.

Not saying they are bad of course, just don't expect anything from them that you wouldn't expect from food.

No_Finish_Line

The only way you can naturally get bigger muscles is by eating at a surplus and lifting heavy e.g. in the 3-5 rep range. Even then, it is very difficult.

Also steroids are much different than supplements you can buy at your local GNC store. Some supplements are very good (Creatine, Beta Alanine, BCAAs) but the are only aids and are useless without putting in the hard work at the gym.

Though I agree with most of this, I will point out that you will gain more size working in the 10-15 rep range, than <5 reps.

I haven't heard that one. 10-15 reps often gets someone into the cardio range for lifting whereas 5 or lower will build the most muscle and strength. I'd love to see a reference that contradicts my ever changing knowledge base.

Nope, strength gains in the 1-5 rep range, which does not build very much muscle, as the muscle does not get enough time under tension, a good combo of size and strength 8-12, going for size 10-15, endurance is 15+ reps.

Go look at any body building program usually in the 8-15 rep ranges, whereas power lifting range 1-6 rep ranges. The book starting strength gets into this a bit, has a chart etc. Mark Rippetoe knows his stuff.

and this

JoRocka

as a rule of thumb

1- 5 reps = strength
5- 10 = hypertrophy
10-15 = endurance

No_Finish_Line

correct me if i'm wrong, but even steroids wont work if you don't put the time in at the gym

Strokingdiction

The only way you can naturally get bigger muscles is by eating at a surplus and lifting heavy e.g. in the 3-5 rep range. Even then, it is very difficult.

Also steroids are much different than supplements you can buy at your local GNC store. Some supplements are very good (Creatine, Beta Alanine, BCAAs) but the are only aids and are useless without putting in the hard work at the gym.

Though I agree with most of this, I will point out that you will gain more size working in the 10-15 rep range, than <5 reps.

I haven't heard that one. 10-15 reps often gets someone into the cardio range for lifting whereas 5 or lower will build the most muscle and strength. I'd love to see a reference that contradicts my ever changing knowledge base.

Nope, strength gains in the 1-5 rep range, which does not build very much muscle, as the muscle does not get enough time under tension, a good combo of size and strength 8-12, going for size 10-15, endurance is 15+ reps.

Go look at any body building program usually in the 8-15 rep ranges, whereas power lifting range 1-6 rep ranges. The book starting strength gets into this a bit, has a chart etc. Mark Rippetoe knows his stuff.

and this

I guess I've just fallen into the trap of only being concerned with strength and not giving enough thought to what other methods garner. Consider me duly relearned. Thanks.

amusedmonkey

Thank you for all the replies. I will actually start lifting soon.. it does make sense to reserve as much muscle as possible even if I'm not bulking yet.

Some of your pictures are truly amazing and give me hope..

Any good books/resources on the matter?

Here is what I have to work with right now (zero lifting)

dieselbyte

The only way you can naturally get bigger muscles is by eating at a surplus and lifting heavy e.g. in the 3-5 rep range. Even then, it is very difficult.

Also steroids are much different than supplements you can buy at your local GNC store. Some supplements are very good (Creatine, Beta Alanine, BCAAs) but the are only aids and are useless without putting in the hard work at the gym.

Though I agree with most of this, I will point out that you will gain more size working in the 10-15 rep range, than <5 reps.

I haven't heard that one. 10-15 reps often gets someone into the cardio range for lifting whereas 5 or lower will build the most muscle and strength. I'd love to see a reference that contradicts my ever changing knowledge base.

Nope, strength gains in the 1-5 rep range, which does not build very much muscle, as the muscle does not get enough time under tension, a good combo of size and strength 8-12, going for size 10-15, endurance is 15+ reps.

Go look at any body building program usually in the 8-15 rep ranges, whereas power lifting range 1-6 rep ranges.

You both are correct lol! One cannot increase strength without muscle growth, and increased time under tension builds muscle also.

An optimal program should incorporate both strength (1-5 reps) and hypertrophy (8-12 reps) training. Brad Schoenfeld thinks so, and I don't think anyone can argue with him!

http://www.lookgreatnaked.com/blog/bodybuilding-vs-powerlifting-type-training-which-builds-more-strength-and-muscle/

Leadfoot_Lewis

You both are correct lol! One cannot increase strength without muscle growth, and increased time under tension builds muscle also.

I agree ^

I didn't know my post would cause such an issue. I should have known better to mention the 5-12 rep range to cover my *kitten*. :laugh: Most women do too many reps with too little weight and get too little results. But seriously, in my experiences I've seen individuals get big/muscular using the 3-5 rep range. Clearly, it's an individual thing and how one reacts to different rep ranges.

correct me if i'm wrong, but even steroids wont work if you don't put the time in at the gym

This is probably the most nit-picky thread I've been in for a while. I really didn't see a need to bring up how steroids affect or don't affect someone, but I guess you covered that. I have no experience using them or training people using them (as far as I know, anyway.)

dieselbyte

correct me if i'm wrong, but even steroids wont work if you don't put the time in at the gym

Actually, because most steroids are synthetic derivates of testosterone, even without working out, the anabolic effects will induce muscle gains.

JoRocka

Well - to be fair- it's a wide misconception that the use of gear will suddenly make you hoooouge.

But most people who use it- they still work harder than most people in the gym. It's not a cure all magic fix- you still need to bust your *kitten* to get good results.


That being said- OP

Starting Strength
Strong lifts
New rules of lifting
Strong Curves

these are great places to start for barbell work and compound lifting.

You both are correct lol! One cannot increase strength without muscle growth, and increased time under tension builds muscle also.

um- you can absolutely get stronger without getting bigger in size. You may have more densely packed muscle (typical)- but that doesn't mean size growth and strength go hand in hand. We cover time and time again- out side of newbs- or returning sebatacle vetrans- you must eat at a surplus to put on appreciable size- especially as a woman.

BusyRaeNOTBusty

Yes. What they said. You have to eat a lot (including protein). Gain weight (fat will be gained as well as muscle). And work hard with strength training.

texstorm

correct me if i'm wrong, but even steroids wont work if you don't put the time in at the gym

You are correct. Anabolic steroids change muscle mass and strength in two ways. First, the steroids lead to an increased production of proteins, which are what your muscles are made out of. The steroids also block the effect of cortisol on muscle tissue, so that existing muscle is broken down more slowly.

But if you don't provide the stimulus that causes the muscle growth, namely stress on the muscle while it strains to lift a weight or do other work, you're not likely to see much of anything happen to your muscles.

No_Finish_Line

You both are correct lol! One cannot increase strength without muscle growth, and increased time under tension builds muscle also.

um- you can absolutely get stronger without getting bigger in size. You may have more densely packed muscle (typical)- but that doesn't mean size growth and strength go hand in hand. We cover time and time again- out side of newbs- or returning sebatacle vetrans- you must eat at a surplus to put on appreciable size- especially as a woman.

i'd have to go with Jo on this one.

i'd even say it could be possible to lift more weight with less muslce mass if training/eating a certain way

dieselbyte

Well - to be fair- it's a wide misconception that the use of gear will suddenly make you hoooouge.

But most people who use it- they still work harder than most people in the gym. It's not a cure all magic fix- you still need to bust your *kitten* to get good results.


That being said- OP

Starting Strength
Strong lifts
New rules of lifting
Strong Curves

these are great places to start for barbell work and compound lifting.

You both are correct lol! One cannot increase strength without muscle growth, and increased time under tension builds muscle also.

um- you can absolutely get stronger without getting bigger in size. You may have more densely packed muscle (typical)- but that doesn't mean size growth and strength go hand in hand. We cover time and time again- out side of newbs- or returning sebatacle vetrans- you must eat at a surplus to put on appreciable size- especially as a woman.

I stand corrected, as many non muscle strenght gains can come from muscle fiber recruitment and synchronization, glycogen stores, CNS related factors etc. I was referring to the strength vs hypertrophy training, and illustrating that both can build muscle and increase strength

texstorm

correct me if i'm wrong, but even steroids wont work if you don't put the time in at the gym

Actually, because most steroids are synthetic derivates of testosterone, even without working out, the anabolic effects will induce muscle gains.

Muscle bulk, yes, but no strength gains.

No_Finish_Line

correct me if i'm wrong, but even steroids wont work if you don't put the time in at the gym

You are correct. Anabolic steroids change muscle mass and strength in two ways. First, the steroids lead to an increased production of proteins, which are what your muscles are made out of. The steroids also block the effect of cortisol on muscle tissue, so that existing muscle is broken down more slowly.

But if you don't provide the stimulus that causes the muscle growth, namely stress on the muscle while it strains to lift a weight or do other work, you're not likely to see much of anything happen to your muscles.

yea i'm pretty sure this is correct.

I also thought that just popping steriods would result in gains out of no where, then i took HS biology.

JoRocka

you specifically said muscle growth and build.

I was just making it very clear in plain english. density =/= size.

People confuse that constantly. I see no need to not speak up to clarify since it IS a sticking point and often muddy's the water.

You weren't wrong- you were just very unclear.

No_Finish_Line

correct me if i'm wrong, but even steroids wont work if you don't put the time in at the gym

Actually, because most steroids are synthetic derivates of testosterone, even without working out, the anabolic effects will induce muscle gains.

Muscle bulk, yes, but no strength gains.

i still don't see hormones automattically producing size in a fully grown individual. or is that why the inject the cows lol., but that could still be more effective at different stages in developement

amusedmonkey

What's best? To get to a low body fat then bulk, or bulk on a normal body fat then lose some of the gained fat?

dieselbyte

correct me if i'm wrong, but even steroids wont work if you don't put the time in at the gym

Actually, because most steroids are synthetic derivates of testosterone, even without working out, the anabolic effects will induce muscle gains.

Muscle bulk, yes, but no strength gains.

Yes, bulk, not strength