Well, I'll just get big bulky man muscles then!

FromHereOnOut

Well, I'll just get big bulky man muscles then!

jk, but I'm in a predicament and could use some advice.

I'm overweight (overfat) by probably about 20+lbs (5'8.5" female). Over the past year, I've found that I have major adherence issues with dieting. My background is that I always dieted at 1200 or less because I literally thought it was the only way (thanks oodles and oodles of stoopid magazine article!). I was very good at it, and probably still would be good at it. But I never want to do that again. Nowadays, I'm working out at the gym and running. I'm measuring my food and counting my calories and watching my macros (well, especially protein anyway). But, as I said, I have adherence issues and I just can't seem to eat at a deficit. It's not hunger, it's purely psychological, but it is what it is.

So, I'm working out at the gym pretty hard and am just finishing my first 3-4mos of doing so, where I worked mainly in the strength range (I'm using the machines). I'm about to begin a new 3 month program (of my own making) and am looking at doing more like the bodybuilding range (4x10) and adding a 1minute burn out set at the end of every exercise. I'm also planning to do much more walking, to try to burn fat, in addition to the running that I do. I'm also planning on adding some metabolic conditioning.

So, I am coming to you good people...the eating, bulking experts...to help me to try to figure out what I can do to make this situation work to my advantage. Again, the situation is: weight training, walking, running, overweight (overfat), hitting protein goal, eating too much to cut (currently maintaining weight for nearly a year). I'm fine with building muscle mass, but is there also any way whatsoever to syphon off some of the fat in the process??

Thank you!

Rose6300

Until someone more knowledgeable than I chimes in ....
I believe if you eat at slightly (200 calories) below maintenance and lift heavy, you will lose fat and gain muscle. I've been trying to figure this out myself for when I hit my goal and that's where I'm coming out. Should work when you're above goal too.
Good luck!

Springfield1970

You need to eat at a deficit to burn fat. Get rid of that first. If you do a lot of low impact exercise and a bit of high impact, if you get the calculations right you can eat quite a lot and still lose fat. Also, you'll be too busy at the gym to eat! It's not an ideal way to set up a deficit coz of the wear and tear, but I'm the same and need big dinners.

To build muscle you need to be in an excess calorie situation. But because building muscle doesn't go very well with high intensity cardio, it's going to be even harder. I suggest 2/300 calories only per day. Heavy lifting 3 x week. Resting and adequate protein in between.

I bulked at 1950/2150. That was hard but really effective and fun. Now I'm fuelling loads of triathlon training and I'm stuffed!

You really need to discipline yourself with food though, it's worth it and you can get the body you've always wanted and manage your eating.

ukaryote

If you are working out and improving your cardiovascular system, getting a bit stronger, and staying flexible, then you can be considered very healthy and still carry some fat reserves beyond the "perfect" BMI.

Bulky muscles? Nahh. You will get firmer, slim, more toned muscles. And look fiiiine.

lrmall01

I'm fine with building muscle mass, but is there also any way whatsoever to syphon off some of the fat in the process??

You'll get different answers on this. Here is a pretty good write up on why some folks feel like re-comping is best: http://scoobysworkshop.com/gain-muscle-lose-fat/

The main argument against a re-comp is that it is very slow. Over time, say 2 years, you can probably make more changes to your body by doing cut and bulk cycles, vs a re-comp. As far as I know none of this is really proven, just sort of anecdotal from trainers, etc.

Just one tip - don't look at any of this as a life sentence. Eat at maintenance for 8 weeks, eat at 20% below maintenance for 4 weeks, then go back. You can cycle calories around depending upon how you feel, what you are doing, etc.

Good luck!

FromHereOnOut

The problem is that I can't eat at 20% below (or anything below) for even 1 day, much less 4 weeks. sigh. I expect to hear someone say, "man up and just stop stuffing your face so much" and I deserve that, but every good day that I have, I either ruin it at night or the very next day or two. I'm happy with the muscles I've built (I can see them a little bit, under the fat), because I used to have twig arms and I love my biceps, etc nowadays. I just want to melt some of the fat away. It sounds like this might be one of those cases where it's advisable that I become a cardio queen, to spend lots of time burnburnburning all the calories I eat

---

as long as I continue with my weight training for keeping my muscles. Sound right?

AliceDark

I agree with a couple of the other posters -- body recomps are SLOW, so you would get to where you want to be much more quickly if you can figure out a way to cut a little bit.

Can you be more specific about your "adherence issues?" Is it that you find it difficult to eat at a consistent deficit, day in and day out? Since you've figured out your maintenence intake, you could try eating at a deficit 2-3 days of the week and then maintenence the other days. You'd need to be really tight with your logging, since it would be easy to over-eat on maintenence days and destroy your deficit, but it could be a way to create a deficit without making your brain go "Aaah, diet!".

Or, is it that you tend to think dieting = extreme and you automatically try to cut down to a ridiculously low number when the "diet" switch in your brain gets flipped? (I tend to do this, so I'm going to have to be cautious going into my cut in a month or so). In this case, try to cut out 100 calories/day, in the least painful way possible, for a couple of weeks. Then cut out another 100 for the next couple of weeks, but don't let yourself cut out more.

jwdieter

Maybe just take a break until you're ready to actually do something. Giving up before starting, then half-assing an unclear direction is pointless.

FromHereOnOut

I just eat too much. I don't know how else to explain it. I never feel stuffed though. It seems to be something different everyday that causes it to happen, but eventually it does, and if not, then the next day and it all washes out. I don't eat especially high calorie foods either, but one way or another it always ends up being too much on average to lose anything.

I think you might be on to something about cutting part of the week and powering through those days with the knowing that there'lll be a day coming when I can bump the calories up (maybe on the weekend). I did something like that last Spring and it worked and I lost 10lbs, but I gained them all back and have been at the same place ever since (with some ups & downs along the way). Also, I am working out more days per week than I was then, making it difficult to find the perfect days for cutting vs. the perfect days for eating more. Obviously i usually eat less on my rest day, but then more than make up for it on my workout days.


Thanks everyone for the advice. Keep it coming.

FromHereOnOut

Maybe just take a break until you're ready to actually do something. Giving up before starting, then half-assing an unclear direction is pointless.

Take a break from what? I'm already not dieting--I'm basically maintaining, even if that's not my goal.

I should take a break from measuring and from counting calories? Sounds dangerous and reckless given my inability to cut.

I should take a break from working out? (No way I'll do that--it's not just about losing weight, this is who I am now)

jwdieter

If you have no control your intake anyway, it's hardly "dangerous and reckless" to not log.

lrmall01

It sounds like this might be one of those cases where it's advisable that I become a cardio queen, to spend lots of time burnburnburning all the calories I eat

---

as long as I continue with my weight training for keeping my muscles. Sound right?

No, it does not sound right. It never really makes sense, IMHO, to become a cardio queen. Sure, you might want to do some HIIT sessions to help but don't go spending 90 minutes on a treadmill 6 days a week.

FromHereOnOut

It sounds like this might be one of those cases where it's advisable that I become a cardio queen, to spend lots of time burnburnburning all the calories I eat

---

as long as I continue with my weight training for keeping my muscles. Sound right?

No, it does not sound right. It never really makes sense, IMHO, to become a cardio queen. Sure, you might want to do some HIIT sessions to help but don't go spending 90 minutes on a treadmill 6 days a week.

Don't worry, I can't spend 5 minutes on a treadmill without being bored to tears. I was thinking more in terms of more walking, outdoors. Specifically, there's a time of day when I have time to kill and I was thinking of running ~3.5mi (because I love running and want to increase my mileage for increasing my weekly long run, but also to deplete glycogen), followed by 60-90min of fat-burning walking (because I've got time to kill anyway). Used to, I'd go to the gym for weights about 5 days per week, but was thinking of reducing it to 2 days per week and spending morning doing some workouts at home and use that "time to kill" in the afternoon for walking the other 3 days.

Springfield1970

All I can say is, exercise keeps my mind off food. I am lucky because I have to bring food into work, so can't eat there, I don't have anything really exciting to eat at home, I'm constantly busy and don't have much eating time going on.

I still find it extremely difficult to not overeat.

MB2MN

I think you're answering your own question. You realize you're not eating at a deficit and that's why you're not losing. The only thing you can do would be to eat less, or burn more...although I'm assuming when you burn more you feel like you can eat more.

How bad do you want to lose fat? If you can't be bothered to do what you know works, as opposed to some people who think they are eating at a deficit but are inaccurate, then it seems you don't want it that badly.

There's no easy answer to overeating, otherwise everyone would do it. PERSONALLY I find that I want to continue eating once I've started, so I made a rule for myself that I eat my PLANNED meal and then can't have anything else for an hour. If after that hour I am still hungry then I probably need it. This works for me but might not work for everyone.

ironrat79

Until someone more knowledgeable than I chimes in ....
I believe if you eat at slightly (200 calories) below maintenance and lift heavy, you will lose fat and gain muscle. I've been trying to figure this out myself for when I hit my goal and that's where I'm coming out. Should work when you're above goal too.
Good luck!

I'm 6 ft 208 now, I don't have problems dropping weight until I hit the 200 mark. I eat 2000, but always mark 1 on any cardio that I do. It puts me at a deficit and mentally I don't see those calories as replaceable and go om nom nom. Look into your macros too...that'll help.

FromHereOnOut

All I can say is, exercise keeps my mind off food. I am lucky because I have to bring food into work, so can't eat there, I don't have anything really exciting to eat at home, I'm constantly busy and don't have much eating time going on.

I still find it extremely difficult to not overeat.

Good point. I'm a SAHM and have apportioned my workout time to one time per day in the afternoon (the only 2hrs per day that I am childless). Because I have a family, there will always be food at home (all food is exciting to me, lol), but maybe if I tried a squat challenge or some nonsense like that, that would have me squatting or doing situps in my "spare time" at home. I agree, exercise is good for keeping my mind off of food. My main problem is night, after the kids go to bed, when I "decompress" and end up polishing off the salad from dinner and a big bowl of yogurt and maybe some toast with a little jam, etc etc. Maybe if I did some situps or something, I might eat half that much.

loriemn

It sounds like this might be one of those cases where it's advisable that I become a cardio queen, to spend lots of time burnburnburning all the calories I eat

---

as long as I continue with my weight training for keeping my muscles. Sound right?

No, it does not sound right. It never really makes sense, IMHO, to become a cardio queen. Sure, you might want to do some HIIT sessions to help but don't go spending 90 minutes on a treadmill 6 days a week.

Don't worry, I can't spend 5 minutes on a treadmill without being bored to tears. I was thinking more in terms of more walking, outdoors. Specifically, there's a time of day when I have time to kill and I was thinking of running ~3.5mi (because I love running and want to increase my mileage for increasing my weekly long run, but also to deplete glycogen), followed by 60-90min of fat-burning walking (because I've got time to kill anyway). Used to, I'd go to the gym for weights about 5 days per week, but was thinking of reducing it to 2 days per week and spending morning doing some workouts at home and use that "time to kill" in the afternoon for walking the other 3 days.

if thats what you want to do,then I say do it! this is what I do because I love cardio! I lift 2-3 days a week and run,bike,cardio to my hearts content the other days because I love the feeling! I rest one day a week,but that usually isnt rest as I am riding horse for several hours anyway.I have noticed my running times are better with lifting,I have lost inches with lifting and I do like showing off some muscle so I will keep it up also.If it makes you happy I say go for it.

FromHereOnOut

PERSONALLY I find that I want to continue eating once I've started,

Exactly! But for me it's on a much larger scale than just a meal. It's the reason that I can easily diet on 400cal/day (and did, in the past), but if I allow myself 1700, I find myself actually eating 2400. It's a slippery slope.

1princesswarrior

I like the idea already mentioned about making small cuts. Start at 100 calories a day for a week, then 150 a day until you build up to 250. That's 1/2 lb a week so you weight loss will be slow and steady and you certainly shouldn't feel deprived of anything food wise.

ottermotorcycle

If you're maintaining your weight where you are, then just keep exercising and don't eat any more. You don't have to eat less, you just have to move more. Your run and walk routine sounds good. Are you doing that? You should be. Or maybe intervals, but you might hate them and honestly I don't want to tell anyone to do anything that they hate... because that's not sustainable, you know?

Instead of just telling yourself to "eat less" why not develop little simple habits that might help you eat less? Like drink a glass of water before every meal, or a small salad (or both!) Make a pact with yourself (or with gympact, as I have) to eat a certain number of fruits and veggies each week, and make them fit into your current calorie numbers.

I think it's good you're changing up your weight training. I used the machines for a while and I just didn't really see the kind of results I wanted until I started lifting heavy dumbbells and barbells. If you are overfat, hitting your protein goals, and eating at maintenance, you're probably going to recomp. It's a slow process, but you can probably build a little muscle which will help you burn more calories in general. And you will burn fat that way. Just make sure you're measuring things other than the scale, like pictures, clothing fit and measurements.

Once you start to do that your calorie burn will go up and you should have an easier time eating at a slight deficit. Your deficit doesn't have to be big either, no matter how much you have to lose. Shaving off 100 calories will make a difference in the long run.

FromHereOnOut

Until someone more knowledgeable than I chimes in ....
I believe if you eat at slightly (200 calories) below maintenance and lift heavy, you will lose fat and gain muscle. I've been trying to figure this out myself for when I hit my goal and that's where I'm coming out. Should work when you're above goal too.
Good luck!

I'm 6 ft 208 now, I don't have problems dropping weight until I hit the 200 mark. I eat 2000, but always mark 1 on any cardio that I do. It puts me at a deficit and mentally I don't see those calories as replaceable and go om nom nom. Look into your macros too...that'll help.

I did that last year, ate the same every day and logged exercise as 1 calorie. But then my routine became "not so routine". It has become much more stable now, so maybe I could go back to doing things that way again. Thanks for mentioning it.

k1431

You might already be doing this, but I find that if I log the food before I eat it (instead of after when it's too late) I can choose to either have less of it, or I can substitute something healthier. Example: lots of veggies = a few nuts or other calorie dense choice. That helps me to stay in a deficit. Maybe it will help you too.

FromHereOnOut

If you're maintaining your weight where you are, then just keep exercising and don't eat any more. You don't have to eat less, you just have to move more. Your run and walk routine sounds good. Are you doing that? You should be. Or maybe intervals, but you might hate them and honestly I don't want to tell anyone to do anything that they hate... because that's not sustainable, you know?

Instead of just telling yourself to "eat less" why not develop little simple habits that might help you eat less? Like drink a glass of water before every meal, or a small salad (or both!)

The walking routine is what I'm just now sorting out in my head for the next 3mos. I'm just ending ~3mos of weights 5days/wk (with run to/from gym), 1 medium/long ("long" for me) run per week, and 1 rest day. I'm thinking of going to: weights 2days/wk, metabolic conditioning at home mornings 2days/wk + run/walk afternoon those days, and probably 2 days/wk rest. Oh, and my long run still 1day/wk.

Yes, I usually have a bit of salad before dinner. Could definitely drink more water. I'm all about developing habits, so I just have to get on that.

Thanks!

BusyRaeNOTBusty

I did a full bulking phase 2+ years ago. It took me a good 2 years to get back into a deficit frame of mine. I was stressed, busy, over whelmed and just couldn't stick to a deficit for more than 2 or 3 weeks. Then I was able to remove one of my major stressors (I finished grad school) and suddenly something just clicked, I could focus on it again. So I definitely know where you are coming from.

How much are you eating now? If you can maintain it really shouldn't take much more discipline to decrease that by 100 or 200 calories, right? The easiest way for me to eat at a deficit is to simply not eat breakfast. Once I've had my lunch I don't find that I am any more hungry for the rest of the day than I would be if I had breakfast. So really, it's only the first few hours of the day that I'm "uncomfortable".

Ilikelamps

oh youre very very lucky...came in looking for lots of derp but leaving unsatisfied


props to you, though :flowerforyou:

BusyRaeNOTBusty

Also, I'm 5'9", 155lbs and diet at 2000 calories a day plus I eat exercise calories.

FromHereOnOut

You might already be doing this, but I find that if I log the food before I eat it (instead of after when it's too late) I can choose to either have less of it, or I can substitute something healthier. Example: lots of veggies = a few nuts or other calorie dense choice. That helps me to stay in a deficit. Maybe it will help you too.

YES! I do this and it absolutely helps. It's the extracurricular eating that I do at night that usually blows it for me. It starts with hunger, but turns into boredom eating, etc.

Like I said, it's totally mental/psychological. Maybe even some sort of weird psychological self-sabatoge for all I know. ugh.

jason_adams

The problem is that I can't eat at 20% below (or anything below) for even 1 day, much less 4 weeks. sigh. I expect to hear someone say, "man up and just stop stuffing your face so much" and I deserve that, but every good day that I have, I either ruin it at night or the very next day or two. I'm happy with the muscles I've built (I can see them a little bit, under the fat), because I used to have twig arms and I love my biceps, etc nowadays. I just want to melt some of the fat away. It sounds like this might be one of those cases where it's advisable that I become a cardio queen, to spend lots of time burnburnburning all the calories I eat

---

as long as I continue with my weight training for keeping my muscles. Sound right?

A few quick thoughts on what might help:

In the Gym:
1) don't think LONG cardio sessions, think Intervals. HIIT training. This ramps up your metabolism for hours.
2) for weights - use the same thought process. Think circuit training, or super-sets. Minimize or eliminate rest time (you can rest AFTER your workout)

Eating:
1) Plan your attack - break your days into meals (4-6) + snacks. Divide your target calories across those meals.
2) Hit the grocery store to get everything you need for those meals for the week
3) Prepare tomorrow's meals today. Then everything is set, and you just eat the right meal at the right time.

It's work, yes, but if it makes achieving your goals easier, then it's the RIGHT kind of work.

Right now, my main antagonist is late night eating. If I need to work late, it's VERY hard not to eat late too. I try to hit-it and quit-it, get the essential work done, and drink soda water if I'm hungry. Then I go to bed. It's harder for me to eat when I'm sleeping.

Encountering challenges is what this is all about. Facing the challenges and finding a way around them is what brings success!!!

jlapey

I think this group might be very beneficial to you.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/10118-eat-train-progress

FromHereOnOut

I think this group might be very beneficial to you.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/10118-eat-train-progress

Thank you. I'm a member and was torn between posting there or posting here. Posted here for greater exposure, but would be thrilled if Sara or SS offered advice too.