But I love meat!!!

Cranquistador

eat it

daffodilsoup

Maybe she gave this advice because of the way much meat is produced today in factory farms. Unless you can afford the more expensive grass feed meats and the free range poultry you are better off not eating meat. Factory farmed meat is not healthy. By the way, my dad was a butcher.

What's a factory farm and what makes meat from there any worse than any other meat?

I wouldn't care if the doctor told the OP that she should avoid meat and the OP was happy with that advice; to each his/her own. However, very few doctors know anything about nutrition, making the advice suspicious at best. The OP needs a diet she will stay with, not one that makes her feel as if she's missing something that she will cheat on. That's no good for her heart, either.

Factory farming is the industrialized mass-production of meat. It's notorious for poor treatment of the animals - cramping them into small spaces and cages, pumping them full of antibiotics to combat disease that comes with overcrowding, and causing intense emotional distress to the animals.

It's also bad for the people who work there. Meatpacking is one of the most dangerous jobs in the United States, thousands of meatpacking employees suffer crippling injuries each year from unsafe work conditions and working around frightened and injured animals.

It's also pretty awful for the environment - animals raised for meat use up a ton of resources (water and food), and the runoff with their feces and body fluids seeps into the ground and nearby rivers/other bodies of water.

The meat from factory farms is cheap, but it comes at a high price that we don't pay with dollars.

So, basically, every profession but that of farming is allowed to enter the twenty-first century? Guilt is a pretty poor science to base a diet and a new lifestyle upon.

A) just because "that's how we always did it" doesn't mean that it's the best way.

every industry is encouraged to modernize and "get with the times" - but not at the expense of living, sentient beings - human and non-human alike.

krawhitham

I'm sorry to hear about your health problems. My dad's family has heart issues (his father had a heart attack at 50) and hereditary high cholesterol. My dad doesn't eat eggs, red meat... But he does eat chicken and turkey in moderation.

Hereditary heart / cholesterol problems are scary

They are scary...but they are not caused by eating red meat or eggs.

I started all of this diet and fitness stuff about 18 months ago with highly elevated LDL cholesterol levels, low HDL levels, off the chart triglycerides, and borderline diabetic blood sugar levels. Even though much of this is hereditary...my dad had type II diabetes, stage III kidney failure, and heart disease and recently passed away at the ripe old age of 61...I've been able to completely reverse it all through diet and exercise...and I eat all of the animals (and fish), eggs every day, tons of vegetables and fruit and whole grains and legumes.

Any recent study is going to show that there's really no direct correlation to eating meat and high cholesterol levels and the idea that dietary cholesterol causes high blood serum levels was debunked years ago. These health issues are a culmination of hereditary factors along with overall diet and fitness (or lack thereof), not really one specific thing like red meat.

While *I* agree with you, and obviously agree with science in the fact that high cholesterol and diet aren't necessarily correlated, I'm not about to tell my dad that. I believe if he thinks he's being healthy (he's at a healthy weight, building muscle in his 60s and working out every day) and he IS incredibly healthy, I'm going to let him do his thing. This is my general attitude towards most people's "diets" if they what "help" them feel/be healthy, then so be it, as long as it isn't doing actual harm.

sammama5

Try it and see if you can do it. Maybe after a few months your Cardiologist says you can do meat twice per week or something. Everyone should eat mainly fish as their animal flesh of choice.

To say EVERYONE should do anything is bogus. For instance, I'm allergic to fish and am repulsed by shell fish. If it swims, I'm not eating it. I might lose weight, but not in a healthy manner, for sure!
I'm not saying she shouldn't try it, but be careful of these all inclusive/exclusive dietary guidelines.

wheird

I bet you do.

3dogsrunning

Maybe she gave this advice because of the way much meat is produced today in factory farms. Unless you can afford the more expensive grass feed meats and the free range poultry you are better off not eating meat. Factory farmed meat is not healthy. By the way, my dad was a butcher.

What's a factory farm and what makes meat from there any worse than any other meat?

I wouldn't care if the doctor told the OP that she should avoid meat and the OP was happy with that advice; to each his/her own. However, very few doctors know anything about nutrition, making the advice suspicious at best. The OP needs a diet she will stay with, not one that makes her feel as if she's missing something that she will cheat on. That's no good for her heart, either.

Factory farming is the industrialized mass-production of meat. It's notorious for poor treatment of the animals - cramping them into small spaces and cages, pumping them full of antibiotics to combat disease that comes with overcrowding, and causing intense emotional distress to the animals.

It's also bad for the people who work there. Meatpacking is one of the most dangerous jobs in the United States, thousands of meatpacking employees suffer crippling injuries each year from unsafe work conditions and working around frightened and injured animals.

It's also pretty awful for the environment - animals raised for meat use up a ton of resources (water and food), and the runoff with their feces and body fluids seeps into the ground and nearby rivers/other bodies of water.

The meat from factory farms is cheap, but it comes at a high price that we don't pay with dollars.

I prefer free range/grass fed meat for my own reasons (and it tastes better) but these reasons don't make "factory farmed" meat unhealthy.

ETA - that is not in relation to the OP. That is just a comment on this string of posts.

SunofaBeach14

There's just not enough derp in my life, so in

daffodilsoup

Maybe she gave this advice because of the way much meat is produced today in factory farms. Unless you can afford the more expensive grass feed meats and the free range poultry you are better off not eating meat. Factory farmed meat is not healthy. By the way, my dad was a butcher.

What's a factory farm and what makes meat from there any worse than any other meat?

I wouldn't care if the doctor told the OP that she should avoid meat and the OP was happy with that advice; to each his/her own. However, very few doctors know anything about nutrition, making the advice suspicious at best. The OP needs a diet she will stay with, not one that makes her feel as if she's missing something that she will cheat on. That's no good for her heart, either.

Factory farming is the industrialized mass-production of meat. It's notorious for poor treatment of the animals - cramping them into small spaces and cages, pumping them full of antibiotics to combat disease that comes with overcrowding, and causing intense emotional distress to the animals.

It's also bad for the people who work there. Meatpacking is one of the most dangerous jobs in the United States, thousands of meatpacking employees suffer crippling injuries each year from unsafe work conditions and working around frightened and injured animals.

It's also pretty awful for the environment - animals raised for meat use up a ton of resources (water and food), and the runoff with their feces and body fluids seeps into the ground and nearby rivers/other bodies of water.

The meat from factory farms is cheap, but it comes at a high price that we don't pay with dollars.

I prefer free range/grass fed meat for my own reasons (and it tastes better) but these reasons don't make "factory farmed" meat unhealthy.

ETA - that is not in relation to the OP. That is just a comment on this string of posts.

Ultimately, factory farmed meat is unhealthier because it generally comes from sick animals. Eggs from chickens who can wander around a field, take dust baths, eat bugs, and generally do "chicken things" taste better because they are getting better nutrients, are happier and aren't essentially kept in a box.

I don't quite mean unhealthy as in "processed" or in terms of macros like a lot of threads on the boards - it's more about the animals being filled with antibiotics and generally being distressed.

wheird

Maybe she gave this advice because of the way much meat is produced today in factory farms. Unless you can afford the more expensive grass feed meats and the free range poultry you are better off not eating meat. Factory farmed meat is not healthy. By the way, my dad was a butcher.

What's a factory farm and what makes meat from there any worse than any other meat?

I wouldn't care if the doctor told the OP that she should avoid meat and the OP was happy with that advice; to each his/her own. However, very few doctors know anything about nutrition, making the advice suspicious at best. The OP needs a diet she will stay with, not one that makes her feel as if she's missing something that she will cheat on. That's no good for her heart, either.

Factory farming is the industrialized mass-production of meat. It's notorious for poor treatment of the animals - cramping them into small spaces and cages, pumping them full of antibiotics to combat disease that comes with overcrowding, and causing intense emotional distress to the animals.

It's also bad for the people who work there. Meatpacking is one of the most dangerous jobs in the United States, thousands of meatpacking employees suffer crippling injuries each year from unsafe work conditions and working around frightened and injured animals.

It's also pretty awful for the environment - animals raised for meat use up a ton of resources (water and food), and the runoff with their feces and body fluids seeps into the ground and nearby rivers/other bodies of water.

The meat from factory farms is cheap, but it comes at a high price that we don't pay with dollars.

I prefer free range/grass fed meat for my own reasons (and it tastes better) but these reasons don't make "factory farmed" meat unhealthy.

ETA - that is not in relation to the OP. That is just a comment on this string of posts.

Ultimately, factory farmed meat is unhealthier because it generally comes from sick animals. Eggs from chickens who can wander around a field, take dust baths, eat bugs, and generally do "chicken things" taste better because they are getting better nutrients, are happier and aren't essentially kept in a box.

I don't quite mean unhealthy as in "processed" or in terms of macros like a lot of threads on the boards - it's more about the animals being filled with antibiotics and generally being distressed.

From sick animals, eh?

LoupGarouTFTs

A) just because "that's how we always did it" doesn't mean that it's the best way.

every industry is encouraged to modernize and "get with the times" - but not at the expense of living, sentient beings - human and non-human alike.

I'm pretty certain that you're advocating for cows merrily frolicking in daisy-studded pastures and chickens pecking perkily at the ground outside of any enclosures--I thought that was "how we always did it?" The strict biosecurity on modernized farms gives us meat that is typically free of disease or debris. Most beef cows are only "finished" on grain and corn, spending much of their early lives grazing in fields. Chickens experience less predation when they are securely locked within walls. Agricultural antibiotics are frequently (I want to say around 80%?) dissimilar to those used on humans. Animals given antibiotics are taken out of the food chain until the antibiotics have left their systems Chickens have not been fed antibiotics since the 1960s.

And guilt is still poor science. If my doctor ever pushed a diet on me based on an agenda or a personal ethical code that had nothing to do with my health, I'd have that doctor in front of a review board so fast his/her head would swim. My doctor is here to serve my needs. I do not exist to further a misguided agenda that deprives people of all domesticated animals,pets and livestock alike.

daffodilsoup

A) just because "that's how we always did it" doesn't mean that it's the best way.

every industry is encouraged to modernize and "get with the times" - but not at the expense of living, sentient beings - human and non-human alike.

I'm pretty certain that you're advocating for cows merrily frolicking in daisy-studded pastures and chickens pecking perkily at the ground outside of any enclosures--I thought that was "how we always did it?" The strict biosecurity on modernized farms gives us meat that is typically free of disease or debris. Most beef cows are only "finished" on grain and corn, spending much of their early lives grazing in fields. Chickens experience less predation when they are securely locked within walls. Agricultural antibiotics are frequently (I want to say around 80%?) dissimilar to those used on humans. Animals given antibiotics are taken out of the food chain until the antibiotics have left their systems Chickens have not been fed antibiotics since the 1960s.

And guilt is still poor science. If my doctor ever pushed a diet on me based on an agenda or a personal ethical code that had nothing to do with my health, I'd have that doctor in front of a review board so fast his/her head would swim. My doctor is here to serve my needs. I do not exist to further a misguided agenda that deprives people of all domesticated animals,pets and livestock alike.

Really? Didn't Tyson get sued around 2008 for feeding their chickens antibiotics, despite using a "raised without antiobiotics" label?

LoupGarouTFTs

A) just because "that's how we always did it" doesn't mean that it's the best way.

every industry is encouraged to modernize and "get with the times" - but not at the expense of living, sentient beings - human and non-human alike.

I'm pretty certain that you're advocating for cows merrily frolicking in daisy-studded pastures and chickens pecking perkily at the ground outside of any enclosures--I thought that was "how we always did it?" The strict biosecurity on modernized farms gives us meat that is typically free of disease or debris. Most beef cows are only "finished" on grain and corn, spending much of their early lives grazing in fields. Chickens experience less predation when they are securely locked within walls. Agricultural antibiotics are frequently (I want to say around 80%?) dissimilar to those used on humans. Animals given antibiotics are taken out of the food chain until the antibiotics have left their systems Chickens have not been fed antibiotics since the 1960s.

And guilt is still poor science. If my doctor ever pushed a diet on me based on an agenda or a personal ethical code that had nothing to do with my health, I'd have that doctor in front of a review board so fast his/her head would swim. My doctor is here to serve my needs. I do not exist to further a misguided agenda that deprives people of all domesticated animals,pets and livestock alike.

k bro

Glad you admit I'm right.

I might also add, since I just saw the argument that factory farm = sick animals, that these so-called factory farms treat animals with medications when they are sick and injured and remove them from the food chain. I consider that practice to be far less cruel than failing to treat an animal's sickness or injury, don't you?

FatFreeFrolicking

A) just because "that's how we always did it" doesn't mean that it's the best way.

every industry is encouraged to modernize and "get with the times" - but not at the expense of living, sentient beings - human and non-human alike.

I'm pretty certain that you're advocating for cows merrily frolicking in daisy-studded pastures and chickens pecking perkily at the ground outside of any enclosures--I thought that was "how we always did it?" The strict biosecurity on modernized farms gives us meat that is typically free of disease or debris. Most beef cows are only "finished" on grain and corn, spending much of their early lives grazing in fields. Chickens experience less predation when they are securely locked within walls. Agricultural antibiotics are frequently (I want to say around 80%?) dissimilar to those used on humans. Animals given antibiotics are taken out of the food chain until the antibiotics have left their systems Chickens have not been fed antibiotics since the 1960s.

And guilt is still poor science. If my doctor ever pushed a diet on me based on an agenda or a personal ethical code that had nothing to do with my health, I'd have that doctor in front of a review board so fast his/her head would swim. My doctor is here to serve my needs. I do not exist to further a misguided agenda that deprives people of all domesticated animals,pets and livestock alike.

That's certainly not what she's advocating. Just because you don't care about the treatment of animals in agriculture and the way factory farming affects the environment doesn't mean others don't.

By the way, if you watch a documentary on farm animal cruelty and can honestly say that you don't believe it's wrong afterward, it's safe to say you are a pretty heartless individual.

wheird

A) just because "that's how we always did it" doesn't mean that it's the best way.

every industry is encouraged to modernize and "get with the times" - but not at the expense of living, sentient beings - human and non-human alike.

I'm pretty certain that you're advocating for cows merrily frolicking in daisy-studded pastures and chickens pecking perkily at the ground outside of any enclosures--I thought that was "how we always did it?" The strict biosecurity on modernized farms gives us meat that is typically free of disease or debris. Most beef cows are only "finished" on grain and corn, spending much of their early lives grazing in fields. Chickens experience less predation when they are securely locked within walls. Agricultural antibiotics are frequently (I want to say around 80%?) dissimilar to those used on humans. Animals given antibiotics are taken out of the food chain until the antibiotics have left their systems Chickens have not been fed antibiotics since the 1960s.

And guilt is still poor science. If my doctor ever pushed a diet on me based on an agenda or a personal ethical code that had nothing to do with my health, I'd have that doctor in front of a review board so fast his/her head would swim. My doctor is here to serve my needs. I do not exist to further a misguided agenda that deprives people of all domesticated animals,pets and livestock alike.

That's certainly not what she's advocating. Just because you don't care about the treatment of animals in agriculture and the way factory farming affects the environment doesn't mean others don't.

By the way, if you watch a documentary on farm animal cruelty and can honestly say that you don't believe it's wrong afterward, it's safe to say you are a pretty heartless individual.

Vegetable farming would affect the environment quite a bit more.

And most documentaries are disingenuous. Have you ever actually been to a farm? I'm surrounded by them.

daffodilsoup

A) just because "that's how we always did it" doesn't mean that it's the best way.

every industry is encouraged to modernize and "get with the times" - but not at the expense of living, sentient beings - human and non-human alike.

I'm pretty certain that you're advocating for cows merrily frolicking in daisy-studded pastures and chickens pecking perkily at the ground outside of any enclosures--I thought that was "how we always did it?" The strict biosecurity on modernized farms gives us meat that is typically free of disease or debris. Most beef cows are only "finished" on grain and corn, spending much of their early lives grazing in fields. Chickens experience less predation when they are securely locked within walls. Agricultural antibiotics are frequently (I want to say around 80%?) dissimilar to those used on humans. Animals given antibiotics are taken out of the food chain until the antibiotics have left their systems Chickens have not been fed antibiotics since the 1960s.

And guilt is still poor science. If my doctor ever pushed a diet on me based on an agenda or a personal ethical code that had nothing to do with my health, I'd have that doctor in front of a review board so fast his/her head would swim. My doctor is here to serve my needs. I do not exist to further a misguided agenda that deprives people of all domesticated animals,pets and livestock alike.

That's certainly not what she's advocating. Just because you don't care about the treatment of animals in agriculture and the way factory farming affects the environment doesn't mean others don't.

By the way, if you watch a documentary on farm animal cruelty and can honestly say that you don't believe it's wrong afterward, it's safe to say you are a pretty heartless individual.

Vegetable farming would affect the environment quite a bit more.

And most documentaries are disingenuous. Have you ever actually been to a farm? I'm surrounded by them.

Would love for you to elaborate on this.

wheird

A) just because "that's how we always did it" doesn't mean that it's the best way.

every industry is encouraged to modernize and "get with the times" - but not at the expense of living, sentient beings - human and non-human alike.

I'm pretty certain that you're advocating for cows merrily frolicking in daisy-studded pastures and chickens pecking perkily at the ground outside of any enclosures--I thought that was "how we always did it?" The strict biosecurity on modernized farms gives us meat that is typically free of disease or debris. Most beef cows are only "finished" on grain and corn, spending much of their early lives grazing in fields. Chickens experience less predation when they are securely locked within walls. Agricultural antibiotics are frequently (I want to say around 80%?) dissimilar to those used on humans. Animals given antibiotics are taken out of the food chain until the antibiotics have left their systems Chickens have not been fed antibiotics since the 1960s.

And guilt is still poor science. If my doctor ever pushed a diet on me based on an agenda or a personal ethical code that had nothing to do with my health, I'd have that doctor in front of a review board so fast his/her head would swim. My doctor is here to serve my needs. I do not exist to further a misguided agenda that deprives people of all domesticated animals,pets and livestock alike.

That's certainly not what she's advocating. Just because you don't care about the treatment of animals in agriculture and the way factory farming affects the environment doesn't mean others don't.

By the way, if you watch a documentary on farm animal cruelty and can honestly say that you don't believe it's wrong afterward, it's safe to say you are a pretty heartless individual.

Vegetable farming would affect the environment quite a bit more.

And most documentaries are disingenuous. Have you ever actually been to a farm? I'm surrounded by them.

Would love for you to elaborate on this.

The acreage needed to farm vegetables would exceed or be similar to the acreage needed to raise cattle. Except with farming you would be destroying many more habitats by plowing grazing fields.

And yes, I'm aware that cattle feed farms could be converted, but unless we're going to eat a hell of a lot of corn, more would be needed.

Mini_horse_lover

Yea and animals love to live.

Just try it. It's not hard.

wheird

Ultimately though, I respect the decision to not take another sentient life for your own sustenance, even if I do not personally feel that way.

jonnythan

A) just because "that's how we always did it" doesn't mean that it's the best way.

every industry is encouraged to modernize and "get with the times" - but not at the expense of living, sentient beings - human and non-human alike.

I'm pretty certain that you're advocating for cows merrily frolicking in daisy-studded pastures and chickens pecking perkily at the ground outside of any enclosures--I thought that was "how we always did it?" The strict biosecurity on modernized farms gives us meat that is typically free of disease or debris. Most beef cows are only "finished" on grain and corn, spending much of their early lives grazing in fields. Chickens experience less predation when they are securely locked within walls. Agricultural antibiotics are frequently (I want to say around 80%?) dissimilar to those used on humans. Animals given antibiotics are taken out of the food chain until the antibiotics have left their systems Chickens have not been fed antibiotics since the 1960s.

And guilt is still poor science. If my doctor ever pushed a diet on me based on an agenda or a personal ethical code that had nothing to do with my health, I'd have that doctor in front of a review board so fast his/her head would swim. My doctor is here to serve my needs. I do not exist to further a misguided agenda that deprives people of all domesticated animals,pets and livestock alike.

That's certainly not what she's advocating. Just because you don't care about the treatment of animals in agriculture and the way factory farming affects the environment doesn't mean others don't.

By the way, if you watch a documentary on farm animal cruelty and can honestly say that you don't believe it's wrong afterward, it's safe to say you are a pretty heartless individual.

Vegetable farming would affect the environment quite a bit more.

And most documentaries are disingenuous. Have you ever actually been to a farm? I'm surrounded by them.

Would love for you to elaborate on this.

The acreage needed to farm vegetables would exceed or be similar to the acreage needed to raise cattle. Except with farming you would be destroying many more habitats by plowing grazing fields.

And yes, I'm aware that cattle feed farms could be converted, but unless we're going to eat a hell of a lot of corn, more would be needed.

Uh....... no. It takes a LOT of calories of vegetation to produce 1 calorie of beef. The animal feed -> animal tissue conversion rate is rather low.

In terms of land use, animal farming requires significantly more land (and water and energy) to produce a given quantity of calories, fat, protein, or carbs.

jonnythan

A) just because "that's how we always did it" doesn't mean that it's the best way.

every industry is encouraged to modernize and "get with the times" - but not at the expense of living, sentient beings - human and non-human alike.

I'm pretty certain that you're advocating for cows merrily frolicking in daisy-studded pastures and chickens pecking perkily at the ground outside of any enclosures--I thought that was "how we always did it?" The strict biosecurity on modernized farms gives us meat that is typically free of disease or debris. Most beef cows are only "finished" on grain and corn, spending much of their early lives grazing in fields. Chickens experience less predation when they are securely locked within walls. Agricultural antibiotics are frequently (I want to say around 80%?) dissimilar to those used on humans. Animals given antibiotics are taken out of the food chain until the antibiotics have left their systems Chickens have not been fed antibiotics since the 1960s.

And guilt is still poor science. If my doctor ever pushed a diet on me based on an agenda or a personal ethical code that had nothing to do with my health, I'd have that doctor in front of a review board so fast his/her head would swim. My doctor is here to serve my needs. I do not exist to further a misguided agenda that deprives people of all domesticated animals,pets and livestock alike.

Really? Didn't Tyson get sued around 2008 for feeding their chickens antibiotics, despite using a "raised without antiobiotics" label?

It's illegal to give chickens antibiotics routinely. It is legal to give them antibiotics if they are sick, provided they are given a certain amount of time off antibiotics before being slaughtered. I dunno about any lawsuits regarding the practice.

Also, hormones are strictly prohibited for poultry and swine.