But I love meat!!!
Replies
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Changing habit that lead you to needing to see a cardiologist seems like a great idea.
Cardiologists don't get their licence without many many years of study. I'm sure they are very experienced with all things heart related.
You should take the bitter pill of their advice and maybe learn that there are a lot of food choices you might just like.
It might just save your life.
I know some rocket scientists that are phenomenally intelligent and experts in their fields...
...but I wouldn't let them work on my car.
(I'm not saying this particular doctor is wrong in his advice...but I know enough about the amount of instruction in nutrition a doctor receives and how dated much of that instruction is not to automatically assume diet advice from any one cardiologist is necessarily correct.)0 -
Changing habit that lead you to needing to see a cardiologist seems like a great idea.
Cardiologists don't get their licence without many many years of study. I'm sure they are very experienced with all things heart related.
You should take the bitter pill of their advice and maybe learn that there are a lot of food choices you might just like.
It might just save your life.
Any cardiologist worth their salt would tell you that exercise is the biggest factor in keeping a healthy heart and cholesterol levels aren't nearly as impacted by diet as we were once lead to believe.0 -
Would it be so bad to take their advice? ( since I don't think many of us here are actual cardiologists) Then after following it for some months getting some blood tests done to see if it helped?
Personally, I think you can probably find a doctor who will tell you what you wan to hear, if you keep looking, but it may not be the best advice.
It won't kill her to follow it through for a few months and see where this doctor is going with the advise he gave.
Clearly something the OP is doing is not working for them.0 -
Would it be so bad to take their advice? ( since I don't think many of us here are actual cardiologists) Then after following it for some months getting some blood tests done to see if it helped?
Personally, I think you can probably find a doctor who will tell you what you wan to hear, if you keep looking, but it may not be the best advice.
It won't kill her to follow it through for a few months and see where this doctor is going with the advise he gave.
Clearly something the OP is doing is not working for them.
Yes, but would you prefer to spend several months of your life radically altering your lifestyle because of accurate science or because of outdated/poor science (or because a person is imposing his or her lifestyle choices on you)?0 -
Would it be so bad to take their advice? ( since I don't think many of us here are actual cardiologists) Then after following it for some months getting some blood tests done to see if it helped?
Personally, I think you can probably find a doctor who will tell you what you wan to hear, if you keep looking, but it may not be the best advice.
It won't kill her to follow it through for a few months and see where this doctor is going with the advise he gave.
Clearly something the OP is doing is not working for them.
If her cardiologist had explained to her that her cholesterol levels were high and wanted her to avoid certain foods to help, then they should have mentioned that. As a mere precautionary tale though, it is almost worthless considering that even cardiologists are people and prone to biases that don't necessarily make scientific sense.0 -
I'm mostly pescatarian*, and I love it. But I love fish, so....it's maybe easier for me. I could eat salmon until I died.
*I don't limit my menu if others are cooking for me, so sometimes my roommate will make dinner and it will have land meat in it.0 -
Cutting out red meat helped lower my inflammation levels. I eat birds all the time, though. You can't have birds?
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I'm mostly pescatarian*, and I love it. But I love fish, so....it's maybe easier for me. I could eat salmon until I died.
*I don't limit my menu if others are cooking for me, so sometimes my roommate will make dinner and it will have land meat in it.
Then I think you have found a very reasonable middle ground.0 -
I don't think we know enough about the consultation to make to many calls. Re- exercise- or any other mitigating factors.
I think in their situation I with heart issues I would give their way a go then have my tests done.
If it works - great then we are on the right path.
If not then go back to doing whatever it is that you want to .
In the end we all make our own choices and live with those consequences.0 -
Good luck! I'm actually starting the same thing. I'm not completely there yet, but I will be soon. It's not really as difficult/bad as everyone makes it out to be.
Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Weight Loss Tools0 -
What was her reasoning? I've never heard of a person being told that they cannot eat lean protein that doesn't come from the sea. Why is boneless, skinless chicken breast off of the menu if eaten in moderation?
people with all kinds of kidney failure ( which might or might not include heart problems ) are usually not allowed to eat meat , because even small amounts of animal product can make the problem worse.0 -
Oh man I leave to pick up my son and this thread just explodes.
The difference between grass fed and corn fed cattle has nothing to do with their life treatments (yes grass fed are more likely to be spread out and not have as many antibiotics, but that's because they are are grazing).
Cows did not evolve to eat corn, they have problems digesting it. They evolved to eat grass. We feed them corn (and corn plant parts) because it is dirt cheap thanks to government subsidies of the corn industry. Therefore cows fed corn get fatter, get sicker easier, and long term issues (if they were allowed to live long enough to have those issues). Cows fed a pure grass diet have leaner meat with higher levels of Omega 3. Think of it as the difference between feeding a kid nothing but candy and feeding a kid a healthy well balanced diet.
Many cows do basically go from "separated from mom" to "feedlot". A lot of meat we eat is only 12 months old.0 -
In0
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Cutting out red meat helped lower my inflammation levels. I eat birds all the time, though. You can't have birds?
I was diagnosed with RA as a young woman and also because of the inflammation factor I quit red meat. That led to quitting other meats and that to 18 years as a vegetarian.
I now eat fowl or fish twice a week, since after being diagnosed with Lupus I need the animal protein , because my body supposedly has easier access to it than to other proteins . I still would prefer to not eat animal protein for no other reason than personal preference.
As far as the OP is concerned I'd shy away from giving any advise, because we have no information on why her MD told her to change her diet. Automatically assuming that (s)he was wrong ( because we all are MDs and know better ) just shows a lack of open mindedness.....:o).0 -
Your cardiologist is full of crap. Its not WHAT we eat, its the amount. A serving of beef is 3 to 4 oz. Roughly the size of a deck of cards or a 1st generation Android phone.
Find a new one...
Here's some references for you.
http://www.beef.org/udocs/Beef Bytes Health.pdf
http://authoritynutrition.com/7-evidence-based-health-reasons-to-eat-meat/
http://www.menshealth.com/mhlists/saturated_fat/Beef.php
http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/wheres-the-beef-wheres-the-health-benefit?page=3
You have to watch portions and calories. That's where the danger lies. Eat meat...just keep it in its place as part of a healthy diet.0 -
If you are truly trying to commit to being pescatarian, I would suggest looking at the source of your fish.. I myself eat mainly tilapia, not only for its sustainability, but also because they grow quickly and reproduce quickly, and take less antibiotics to raise. They are also a fresh water fish and can be cultivated in tanks so they don't adversely affect the ecosystems.
I've sort of been off of red meat ever since I tried to eat a very rare steak while watching the walking dead.. that was three months ago.. i've had two burgers since then and that's it. Its all chicken and fish other than that..0 -
...my doctor favorite saying is does it have a mother if so don't eat it.
I buy my meat from a family farm, and they assure me that all the animals there are orphans.
i did laugh out loud!0 -
If they had trouble digesting it they wouldn't get fatter from it than from grass. Cause "trouble with digesting" something means your body can't take all the nutrients out of it and you basically poop it out like you ate it. Like humans with fiber.Oh man I leave to pick up my son and this thread just explodes.
The difference between grass fed and corn fed cattle has nothing to do with their life treatments (yes grass fed are more likely to be spread out and not have as many antibiotics, but that's because they are are grazing).
Cows did not evolve to eat corn, they have problems digesting it. They evolved to eat grass. We feed them corn (and corn plant parts) because it is dirt cheap thanks to government subsidies of the corn industry. Therefore cows fed corn get fatter, get sicker easier, and long term issues (if they were allowed to live long enough to have those issues). Cows fed a pure grass diet have leaner meat with higher levels of Omega 3. Think of it as the difference between feeding a kid nothing but candy and feeding a kid a healthy well balanced diet.
Many cows do basically go from "separated from mom" to "feedlot". A lot of meat we eat is only 12 months old.0 -
If they had trouble digesting it they wouldn't get fatter from it than from grass. Cause "trouble with digesting" something means your body can't take all the nutrients out of it and you basically poop it out like you ate it. Like humans with fiber.Oh man I leave to pick up my son and this thread just explodes.
The difference between grass fed and corn fed cattle has nothing to do with their life treatments (yes grass fed are more likely to be spread out and not have as many antibiotics, but that's because they are are grazing).
Cows did not evolve to eat corn, they have problems digesting it. They evolved to eat grass. We feed them corn (and corn plant parts) because it is dirt cheap thanks to government subsidies of the corn industry. Therefore cows fed corn get fatter, get sicker easier, and long term issues (if they were allowed to live long enough to have those issues). Cows fed a pure grass diet have leaner meat with higher levels of Omega 3. Think of it as the difference between feeding a kid nothing but candy and feeding a kid a healthy well balanced diet.
Many cows do basically go from "separated from mom" to "feedlot". A lot of meat we eat is only 12 months old.
*pffffft* Science and logic . . . How dare you spoil a perfectly good myth . . .0 -
Nope. How is diet going to help someone with an inherited HTT or XPA mutation? In some cases, genetic influence/penetrance is close to 100% and unfortunately no amount of healthy living is going to block expression of the genotype.I'm sorry to hear about your health problems. My dad's family has heart issues (his father had a heart attack at 50) and hereditary high cholesterol. My dad doesn't eat eggs, red meat... But he does eat chicken and turkey in moderation.
Hereditary heart / cholesterol problems are scary
What's more scary is people following the worst possible dietary advice and getting sicker because of it... then being prescribed a ton of pharmaceuticals, and then needing surgeries, on and on.
Just an FYI: we have almost absolute control over our own health; the "heriditary/genetic" argument is a cop out. Of course generation after generation is going to have poor health when each of those generations also ate crap and had unhealthy lifestyles. I've debunked the genetic argument in my own life. There is every disease in my family, autoimmune disorders, cancer, heart disease, stroke, depression, you name it. I have resolved ALL of the ones I "inherited" (long, long list) just by changing WHAT I EAT and how I live.
OP, I would ask your cardiologist for a referral to a dietitian.0 -
I'm not whether you are doing this to lower your cholesterol, but when mine was high and I had to watch my diet for that purpose, I couldn't eat shrimp. I love it, but it has TONS of cholesterol so beware.0
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ITT: people telling someone to disregard their cardiologist's advice without knowing why the advice was sought after or on the basis of what it was given.
Never change, internet.0 -
As far as I've seen, the cardiologist never told her the reason to begin with. Which is kinda weird to begin with.ITT: people telling someone to disregard their cardiologist's advice without knowing why the advice was sought after or on the basis of what it was given.
Never change, internet.0 -
ITT: people telling someone to disregard their cardiologist's advice without knowing why the advice was sought after or on the basis of what it was given.
Never change, internet.
I think most people have been suggesting that the OP get a second opinion, because 1) the science behind the recommendation has been disproven, 2) a cardiologist doesn't have much training in nutrition, and 3) getting a second opinion before altering one's life or lifestyle or body in an extreme manner is the right thing to do.
And, just as a little aside for the meat portion of the thread, sometimes "intensive" farming actually improves the environment.:
http://feedstuffsfoodlink.com/story-brazils-ag-policy-cut-ghgs-71-1120270 -
Second opinion is fine, referral to a dietitian is also fine, but remember that a second opinion from a cardiologist would still come from someone with personal biases and little training in nutrition and that dietitians (aside from having personal biases) are less regulated than cardiologists.I think most people have been suggesting that the OP get a second opinion, because 1) the science behind the recommendation has been disproven, 2) a cardiologist doesn't have much training in nutrition, and 3) getting a second opinion before altering one's life or lifestyle or body in an extreme manner is the right thing to do.
If the second opinion confirms the first one, do you keep shopping until someone tells you what you want to hear? If it doesn't which one do you listen to, do you seek a third one to cut the knot?
I'm with Kymmu, try it short term and see if it works for you.0 -
I would rather die than not have my extra rare steak!!!
Moooooo....come back here cow!0 -
Second opinion is fine, referral to a dietitian is also fine, but remember that a second opinion from a cardiologist would still come from someone with personal biases and little training in nutrition and that dietitians (aside from having personal biases) are less regulated than cardiologists.I think most people have been suggesting that the OP get a second opinion, because 1) the science behind the recommendation has been disproven, 2) a cardiologist doesn't have much training in nutrition, and 3) getting a second opinion before altering one's life or lifestyle or body in an extreme manner is the right thing to do.
If the second opinion confirms the first one, do you keep shopping until someone tells you what you want to hear? If it doesn't which one do you listen to, do you seek a third one to cut the knot?
I'm with Kymmu, try it short term and see if it works for you.
Every group comes with personal biases, but forcing lifestyle changes on patients to suit one's own ideology is unethical. I still don't see the point of wasting time "trying" something that is based on outdated science. As to doctor shopping . . . no doubt some people do. However, it's the patient's responsibility to research the advice given to him/her and determine if it's bast on facts or ideology and, depending on which it is, to determine whether s/he can follow that advice or not.0 -
Second opinion is fine, referral to a dietitian is also fine, but remember that a second opinion from a cardiologist would still come from someone with personal biases and little training in nutrition and that dietitians (aside from having personal biases) are less regulated than cardiologists.I think most people have been suggesting that the OP get a second opinion, because 1) the science behind the recommendation has been disproven, 2) a cardiologist doesn't have much training in nutrition, and 3) getting a second opinion before altering one's life or lifestyle or body in an extreme manner is the right thing to do.
If the second opinion confirms the first one, do you keep shopping until someone tells you what you want to hear? If it doesn't which one do you listen to, do you seek a third one to cut the knot?
I'm with kymmu, try it short term and see if it works for you.
Eh, it depends on the doctor. My own doctor is a GP but also delivers babies. She keeps very up to date on everything related to that and seeks out information beyond what she was just taught. I trust her opinion on anything related to that for that reason. She has some different opinions outside of the old standard advice. That said, she isn't into running. When I went to see her about a running injury, she gave the same old standard advice that was probably taught to her way back when. I have another doctor friend who has an interest in fitness/running that I turn to for opinions on such (usually very different than my own doctor's).
Some cardiologists may have a particular interest in nutrition as it relates to their field. It is possible to get training outside of their standard training.
I don't suggest people second guess their doctor, but I also don't believe in blindly following all advice either. I don't think there is anything wrong with doing a little of your own research so you know what questions to ask, and possibly consulting someone else to see what they think.0 -
I have always had high cholesterol (thanks dad) over three different checks.. the first eating low fat. higher carb diet was my worst.. my best numbers?? Atkins/south beach.. meat cheese and nuts. and I finally had low cholesterol. just goes to show you that despite what doctors think they know.. they don't always. the numbers don't lie... I avoid crappy carbs like the plague. and I've never felt better.0
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Three things and I'm out:Every group comes with personal biases, but forcing lifestyle changes on patients to suit one's own ideology is unethical. I still don't see the point of wasting time "trying" something that is based on outdated science.
1) None of us know why the advice was given, so why read ideology or outdated science into it? Especially considering that the outdated science that was brought up was about red meat which isn't applicable here.
2) Running from specialist to specialist takes up a good bit of time, not to mention money, in and of itself. As I said before, getting a second opinion is fine but unless you know what you'll do with it why bother...
3) The OP said she'll take the advice after many months of rejecting it, which implies that she's already tried the "do nothing and hope for the best" diet and found it lacking.0
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