I went from morbidly obese to 6 pack abs! Ask me Anything

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  • muggzie399
    muggzie399 Posts: 116 Member
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    I bulked from December '12 through July '13, and have been cutting for a good eleven months now with decent success; I think what I ended up with after an initial 10 lb loss was a recomp of sorts. My weight is holding steady in the upper 150's (I'm 5'10"), but I have much more visible muscle definition everywhere.

    After almost a year of dieting, I'm really struggling with hunger cues; as in, I don't think I feel them anymore. I can't tell when I'm hungry, and when I'm full. This past year, I've taken a few weekends off where I didn't track or worry. I decided to take this entire week off and eat intuitively, and I think I've lost that ability. I ate two cartons of Ben and Jerry's yesterday because I never felt "full." I'd like to not make that a habit, but I don't know how to fix it.

    Any advice? Did you ever experience something like this? I'm a long-time lurker on bb.com, and always appreciate your posts in the LF forum.

    Don't get onto a rut like that. Keep watching what you eat in all. Taking time off and letting go ia not a good idea.

    I ate two cartons of Ben and Jerry's yesterday because I never felt "full." I'd like to not make that a habit, but I don't know how to fix it.

    I was on a binge like that before I started MFP. As a matter of fact, my infatuation with ice cream blew me up like a blimp.

    Got off the ice cream and now I watch my calories in everything I put in my mouth down to a midget tootsie roll.
  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
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    I bulked from December '12 through July '13, and have been cutting for a good eleven months now with decent success; I think what I ended up with after an initial 10 lb loss was a recomp of sorts. My weight is holding steady in the upper 150's (I'm 5'10"), but I have much more visible muscle definition everywhere.

    After almost a year of dieting, I'm really struggling with hunger cues; as in, I don't think I feel them anymore. I can't tell when I'm hungry, and when I'm full. This past year, I've taken a few weekends off where I didn't track or worry. I decided to take this entire week off and eat intuitively, and I think I've lost that ability. I ate two cartons of Ben and Jerry's yesterday because I never felt "full." I'd like to not make that a habit, but I don't know how to fix it.

    Any advice? Did you ever experience something like this? I'm a long-time lurker on bb.com, and always appreciate your posts in the LF forum.

    Don't get onto a rut like that. Keep watching what you eat in all. Taking time off and letting go ia not a good idea.

    I ate two cartons of Ben and Jerry's yesterday because I never felt "full." I'd like to not make that a habit, but I don't know how to fix it.

    I was on a binge like that before I started MFP. As a matter of fact, my infatuation with ice cream blew me up like a blimp.

    Got off the ice cream and now I watch my calories in everything I put in my mouth down to a midget tootsie roll.

    There's a difference between "full" and "satiated." Was there a point where you felt "no longer hungry?" THAT'S when you should stop.
  • fleetzz
    fleetzz Posts: 962 Member
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    Where are your stretch marks and how did you get rid of them? Mine won't go away :angry: :angry: :angry:
  • MelodyandBarbells
    MelodyandBarbells Posts: 7,725 Member
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    I love how Shaselai's question #5 is the personal question in his list :)
  • LifeNewandImproved
    LifeNewandImproved Posts: 125 Member
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    bookmarking so I can read this whole series later, thanks for creating
  • Bvail30
    Bvail30 Posts: 5 Member
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    How do you target trouble areas if you can't spot reduce fat?
  • OpenHeaven
    OpenHeaven Posts: 275 Member
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    INCREDIBLE transformation!!!!
  • vismal
    vismal Posts: 2,463 Member
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    You have done great no doubt...however, unless I am really missing something, you werent morbidly obese! Its a misleading title. I doubt a person with true morbid obesity could get abs without some pretty fancy knifework...just sayin'!
    This was addressed in the first thread. Morbid obesity is generally considered a bmi > 40. At 6'1 315 lbs my bmi was 41.6. I feel part of the problem with obesity in America is people refuse to acknowledge they are obese, or morbidly obese. It's pure math but people tend to subjectify it. Did I carry my weight well for being so heavy, yes. Are there people much fatter then I was, yes. Does that change the fact I was morbidly obese, not at all.

    I'm on mobile now and I'll catch up on answers tomorrow afternoon when I wake up!
  • GreatDepression
    GreatDepression Posts: 347 Member
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    Vismal, you shouldn't get so defensive when people say you didn't look morbidly obese before. You carried your weight very well and probably had a lot of muscle tissue as well.
  • AdreaC
    AdreaC Posts: 34 Member
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    Vismal, you shouldn't get so defensive when people say you didn't look morbidly obese before. You carried your weight very well and probably had a lot of muscle tissue as well.

    He's not being defensive... he's being informative. People have a tendancy of seeing morbidly obese people on a daily basis, especially in America, and so they no longer see them as morbid, just obese. People think of morbid obesity as people like the half ton killer, or having to weigh 500 extra pounds. If people would look up the definition of morbid obesity they would probably be surpised since it's based on BMI, many people you see in your average day are morbidly obese. Vismal is a nurse, (as am I) and yes, he was morbidly obese based on the medical definition.

    I really think it's just that being that overweight has become acceptable in our society and therefore people don't see it for what it is: morbid obesity. But when you go do your doctor's office, and they take your height and weight, it is on their chart!
  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
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    You have done great no doubt...however, unless I am really missing something, you werent morbidly obese! Its a misleading title. I doubt a person with true morbid obesity could get abs without some pretty fancy knifework...just sayin'!
    This was addressed in the first thread. Morbid obesity is generally considered a bmi > 40. At 6'1 315 lbs my bmi was 41.6. I feel part of the problem with obesity in America is people refuse to acknowledge they are obese, or morbidly obese. It's pure math but people tend to subjectify it. Did I carry my weight well for being so heavy, yes. Are there people much fatter then I was, yes. Does that change the fact I was morbidly obese, not at all.

    I'm on mobile now and I'll catch up on answers tomorrow afternoon when I wake up!

    I had the same experience. People think that you are denigrating yourself when you are stating a fact. I couldn't even get a referral to a nutritionist when my BMI was 32 because my doctor's office didn't feel I was "obese."

    I'm 5'9 and carry my weight well, but I had a triple chin and could hold a pencil under my tummy roll. My thighs pressed together enough that it was pushing my feet apart when I walked.

    ETA - I agree that you are not being defensive at all. It's an assumption a lot of people make when you correct them about issues they perceive to be about body image.
  • Menix8
    Menix8 Posts: 210 Member
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    Well, a couple things. I think diet breaks are super important, for both psychological reasons and hormone stabilization (see Lyle McDonald's Full Diet Break), especially when dieting down below "average" BF%, which is what I'm trying to do (17% - 18% is my goal). So while ice cream may not have been the best idea, I do think a week off is necessary for me at this point.

    My issue is that I didn't feel hungry in the first place, even though I was far below my calorie target for the day and had another good 800 calories to consume. That's exactly my problem; I feel relatively the same when I fast, when I eat, and right before/after a meal. I'm not going to sit down with Ben and Jerry's again, but it was that incident that kinda tipped me off that I don't feel hungry or full anymore. I mean, I guess I feel satiated all the time. Should I just fast until I feel hunger?
  • vismal
    vismal Posts: 2,463 Member
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    Vismal, you are such an inspiration! I am also on my road to weight loss and my starting weight and would love some tips!
    Current Stats:
    Male:32
    SW: 297. CW: 244 GW:176(according to ideal BW for 5'9 32 year old fella)
    BMR: 2047
    Diet plan: Keto - 65%fat/30%protein/5%carbs
    Intake: ~1300
    TDEE (using 3 months of weightloss + calorie intake) ~ 3100

    Activity level: Alternate 12 hours total zumba (usually alternate 1hr/2hr days). Started the icecream 5x5 recently.
    Currently feels: fine - no side effects of eating too low calories (weak/dizzy/feeling starved). If i am hungry i eat, even if it puts me above my calories. I have fun with making food and dont feel restricted by the diet at all.

    Reason to lose: appearance and girl.

    My questions are:
    1. Is there anything I should change at this point? I am losing, feeling fine and enjoying working out for once - I honestly dont think i could workout if there's no Zumba (i am like you dont like stationary stuff at all). I am counting calories and similar to you i generally have my meal plan set for the weekdays (i make a batch sunday night for lunch and dinner for M-F).

    2. I am on the side of "keep it rolling" - i understand plateau might come eventually but now i want to lose as much as possible so when i do hit it i wouldve lost more than if i lost slowly - is this a bad mentality?

    3. On the case of loose skin, it does seem losing slower causes the skin to lag less severe, but does the benefit outweigh the potential benefits of losing asap? I guess another way of saying it is is it better to lose quick or lose slow? I suppose losing quick will have more skin problem to deal with.

    4. also saw your comment about "something showing more" as you lost weight. When did that "fat pad" above that thing disappear for you and is the saying " 1inch per 35 lbs" hold true at all??

    5. Finally a more personal question but did you have any health problems (diabetes etc.) when you started and if yes how are they now?

    Thanks!!!!
    1300 calories with that much activity seems incredibly low to me. I worry that you will either burnout or binge. I know you are doing fine at this pace for now but I question how long that will be the case. Especially with starting lifting, I can't imagine proper recovery on 1300 calories + all that zumba. I get that you want to lose as much weight as possible before you hit a plateau but I feel your strategy is going to cause the plateau to happen sooner then if you were eating more, and it will be MUCH more difficult to handle once it does occur (and it will!) I don't really feel like the speed of weight loss affects the overall loose skin you will be left with when all is said and done. I think people who lose weight slower have less loose skin because more time went by for the skin to heal. Time is the only real cure for lose skin besides surgery. The thing is you can't do anything about it or stop it so I really tend not to worry about it. Lose the weight, do a few bulk/cut cycles, see where your skin is at. If it's important enough to you, consider surgery, or wear it as a badge to remind you how far you've come. I never measured "myself" through the process so I can't give you exact figures...lol I can say that after 100 + lbs of weight loss I gained significant size and things function much better. Part of that is from fat loss, part I'm sure is from increased blood flow due to immensely better cardiovascular health. I didn't have any diagnosed health issues but I wouldn't be shocked if I was hypertensive. My resting heart rate was around 100, it's 60 now. I was not diabetic but I was certainly on the fast track to that. I also have a strong family history of coronary artery disease and could easily have been just a decade away from a heart attack.
  • vismal
    vismal Posts: 2,463 Member
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    There were probably 3 bulk cut cycles between pics 2 and 3. Your first bulk depends on a lot of things. Too many people say cut until you have a 6 pack then bulk. In reality that barely ever works, especially if you are coming from a very heavy starting point. Basically you reach a point where you are comfortable enough with the amount of fat you carry that you won't mind putting a bit more on while you gain some mass. This will vary from person to person. Also, if you are not relatively lean when starting your first bulk, it'l likely be a short one. I prefer to bulk 6 months + now but my first 2 were probably both half that long.
    just curious what makes you say this since this is essentially my plan lol

    is it due to loose skin or just that most people lack the proper abdominal mass to have a 6-pack at that stage?
    Most people lack the muscular development to get a decent 6 pack at an achievable body fat. Take for instance my middle picture. I would have needed to lose probably 10-15 more lbs to achieve clearly visible abs. I would have been a skeleton. Not to mention at that point losing another lb seemed impossible. My workouts were terrible, my energy levels were *kitten*. I was certainly lean enough to do some muscle building and not look fat while doing so. If you happen to be blessed with decent abdominal genetics and are one of the lucky few men who don't store their last bit of fat in their lower abs, it's possible to get a good 6 pack your first cut. I will say though, I have personally seen only a handful of cases where guys got a 6 pack their first go around, and nearly every single one of them had a fairly decent muscular base before they started.
    Where are your stretch marks and how did you get rid of them? Mine won't go away :angry: :angry: :angry:
    My darker (Italian) skin completion and the fact that I get rather tan in the summer has basically made my stretch marks invisible. I can't even notice them unless I really look for them. Being tanned helps but there really isn't a cream or noninvasive treatment to make them go away.
    I love how Shaselai's question #5 is the personal question in his list :)
    lol I know right!
  • vismal
    vismal Posts: 2,463 Member
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    How do you target trouble areas if you can't spot reduce fat?
    You don't. You simply keep losing fat until your trouble areas are better, or you come to the realization that your trouble areas will be with you forever. Shy of becoming competition lean, something I have no aspirations of doing, I will have love handles and lower back fat. It's just the way my body is. Don't get me wrong, everyone can get lean, very lean really. Not everyone can have that shrink wrapped skin look, a thigh gap, a 6 pack even. Genetics plays a huge part on how you will look when you reach the low levels of body fat. Most men can get to the 10% range without doing anything drastic but not all men will have a solid 6 pack at that level of fat. For most women I'd say 15% is achievable. Not all women will have abdominals showing at that level, or lean hips and legs.
    Vismal, you shouldn't get so defensive when people say you didn't look morbidly obese before. You carried your weight very well and probably had a lot of muscle tissue as well.

    He's not being defensive... he's being informative. People have a tendancy of seeing morbidly obese people on a daily basis, especially in America, and so they no longer see them as morbid, just obese. People think of morbid obesity as people like the half ton killer, or having to weigh 500 extra pounds. If people would look up the definition of morbid obesity they would probably be surpised since it's based on BMI, many people you see in your average day are morbidly obese. Vismal is a nurse, (as am I) and yes, he was morbidly obese based on the medical definition.

    I really think it's just that being that overweight has become acceptable in our society and therefore people don't see it for what it is: morbid obesity. But when you go do your doctor's office, and they take your height and weight, it is on their chart!
    This is exactly right! Obesity and morbid obesity is not subjective. People need to realize this. I know I carried my weight well compared to most people 6'1 315lbs. That means nothing as far as health is concerned. I was still just as at risk for all of the negative health consequences that go along with morbid obesity. Obese has a negative connotation to it but it shouldn't. It's a medical term. People would likely be offended if they were referred to as obese which I think is silly. That is like a near sighted individual being offended at being called myopic. It is just a medical term used to describe a condition. And unlike the myopic patient, the obese or morbidly obese patients condition is 100% reversible!
  • mr_mitch
    mr_mitch Posts: 176 Member
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    OK - so as I've said I've read the whole thread, so I hope you don't mind if I pop out a few questions...

    first of all let's make sure I've grasped the whole concept correctly.....

    1. you start of on a calorie deficit to get rid of body fat... but you start to do weights asap to preserve the muscle mass you have

    2. you then decide to bulk up.... so eat a calorie surplus - with plenty of protein (how do you know when it's time for this?) - do you do more intense / regular workouts during the bulk up stage? or keep it constant

    3. After a while you drop back down to a surplus (again - when?)

    4. This process continues... indefinitely.


    Also, how long did it take and how difficult was it to get your body to that of picture no.2? (that's more what I would be aspiring too - Id prefer that to the 6 pack look, it just wouldn't work on me - were you doing much weightlifting at that point?)

    Personally, Im 28, 160lbs, 5"9. - not technically overweight, but like a lot of guys, am carrying fat on my stomach and lovehandle area. (oh and my body fat shows up at 16 - 16.5% on my fitbit scales, but I know this is to be taken with a large pinch of salt)

    Have been doing 1200 cals for about 4 weeks, but I now know that too be abit too low and I'm gonna be burning muscles.

    Obviously this needs changing, especially as I have a history of going through phases of obsessive calorie limitation and dropping down to an unhealthy weight - to the point of borederline eating disorder....

    Do you think this would have had any long term effects on my metabolism or anything, which might potentially make it difficult to do it the healthy way? (if I go back to eating whatever I want without thinking about cals, I can / do put weight on easily)

    sorry for the long post and thanks in advance if you take the time to read it, etc.

    You got the basic idea of bulk/cut cycling. As to when it's time to switch from cutting to bulking then back to cutting, that's all personal preference. You cut fat until you are happy with the amount of fat you carry, knowing that you will put a some back on during the bulk. You then bulk as long as you can without letting body fat get "out of hand". Repeat the process for the next several years. Eventually you will near your muscular genetic potential (5-10 years of doing this).

    1200 calories is WAY TO LOW for a 5'9 160lb male. I would work on slowly increasing your calories to around 22-2400 and eating that way for a month or two. This should help to reverse any slowdown you've caused. I do not think you will have any permanent damage.

    Thank you vismal. You are an absolute legend.

    I have already started trying to increase cals as I got a bit ocd about weighing everything and some days I took in under 1,000, so I've been trying to increase and take in more protein especially. I even grabbed a protein bar today ( although I'm not sure artificial stuff like that is the greatest idea)

    And have started some bodyweight exercises, which I know aren't the best but still better than nothing. My arms are killing me today, lol
  • Shaselai
    Shaselai Posts: 151
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    vismal, thanks for the previous reply - i have a couple more questions if you dont mind...

    1. How important do you see exercise in general is for you and your journey? I understand at the basic level that Weights = preserve muscle while cardio = better heart but i have read many people saying that exercise ultimately dont help you lose weight but does help you have better health. I personally think the zumba i have done helped my heart quite a bit as my resting heart rate now is <60 which by all standards is pretty decent. I do understand that cutting calories is probably the "easiest" since not eating 500 calories is much easier than exercising an hour to burn 500 calories. Just kind of curious what your take on it is. I think i am too addicted to exercise now (i was a lazy bum before...) to not do it...

    2. How would you categorize your diet to get to where you are now? Is it low carb / high fat/protein / just calorie cutting or something else? I am doing Keto now because i read it is supposedly more "muscle friendly" as it uses fat for energy rather than glucose (which muscle can be used to burn into) and i can say that for the 3months+ i have been on keto i never went off rails once. Even when i ate more it was pure fat/protein than like a whole pizza or cake...

    3. Did you notice a trend on your weight loss time? I know water weight can fluctuate quite a bit but from my records it seems I lose the majority of my weight for the week in the weekend - not sure why since i eat the same if not slightly more and i maybe do an extra hour of exercise compared to the other days. I always get nervous going into the weekend because i worry I might not lose when i officially weigh on monday.
  • vismal
    vismal Posts: 2,463 Member
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    vismal, thanks for the previous reply - i have a couple more questions if you dont mind...

    1. How important do you see exercise in general is for you and your journey? I understand at the basic level that Weights = preserve muscle while cardio = better heart but i have read many people saying that exercise ultimately dont help you lose weight but does help you have better health. I personally think the zumba i have done helped my heart quite a bit as my resting heart rate now is <60 which by all standards is pretty decent. I do understand that cutting calories is probably the "easiest" since not eating 500 calories is much easier than exercising an hour to burn 500 calories. Just kind of curious what your take on it is. I think i am too addicted to exercise now (i was a lazy bum before...) to not do it...

    2. How would you categorize your diet to get to where you are now? Is it low carb / high fat/protein / just calorie cutting or something else? I am doing Keto now because i read it is supposedly more "muscle friendly" as it uses fat for energy rather than glucose (which muscle can be used to burn into) and i can say that for the 3months+ i have been on keto i never went off rails once. Even when i ate more it was pure fat/protein than like a whole pizza or cake...

    3. Did you notice a trend on your weight loss time? I know water weight can fluctuate quite a bit but from my records it seems I lose the majority of my weight for the week in the weekend - not sure why since i eat the same if not slightly more and i maybe do an extra hour of exercise compared to the other days. I always get nervous going into the weekend because i worry I might not lose when i officially weigh on monday.
    Exercise in general is an important part of weight loss. Resistance training (weights) is MUCH MORE useful then cardio IMO. If I had to pick only one, weights would win hands down for 100 reasons. The biggest reason being preservation of lean mass. If you care at all about aesthetics then you want to preserve as much lean mass as possible when losing weight. I'm not saying don't do any cardio, or that it's not useful. There are certain health benefits you can gain from cardiovascular workouts. In addition the extra calories burned will either allow you to eat a bit more, or lose weight a bit faster. Of course you are correct it is "easier" to just eat less. 1 hour of cardio 3x a week might burn you 1500 calories total. That's only about 215 calories a day. That's less then a piece of pizza. If you are fairly inactive, you probably shouldn't neglect cardio completely though. I personally do little to no formal cardio in the summer and 1 or 2 days a week in the winter simply because I am quite active when it's warm out and basically sedentary when it isn't. Also there does come a point when too much cardio will interfere with your recovery and cause lean tissue losses. This requires a lot of cardio though. Most people need not worry about it. I'm talking endurance athletes. This is why you don't see too many competitive marathoners with a lot of muscle. But if endurance sports, not aesthetics are your goal, you don't want to be all that muscular in the first place.

    I do flexible dieting, also more recently called "If it fits your macros" (IIFYM). The idea is that I have a calorie and macro nutrient target for the day. I can eat whatever I want so long as those targets are met. I can eat whenever I want. I prefer this method of dieting to all others because it is something I could reasonably do for the rest of my life. That is one of the issues I have with ketosis diets. Plenty of people have gone low/no carb and lost a ton of weight. I personally know several. I don't know (in real life, internet not included) anyone who has kept weight off long term that they lost using a ketosis diet. I believe this is because as soon as they reintroduce carbs back into their diet, they wipe away any deficit they created, and ultimately return to eating the way they did before they lost their weight. To me, any diet based on restricting types of foods, or in the case of keto, an entire macro nutrient, is going to have lots of trouble with long term success.

    I didn't start daily weighing until very far along in my progress. I weighed in sporadically and usually lost weight each time. When I became more lean I started weighing daily and noticed the typical fluctuations we all notice. Gain a lb here, lose 2 there, etc. The key comparing long term data. Day to day, week to week, month to month. You should ultimately see a downward trend or something isn't working. No need to freak out if you gain 4 lbs between Tuesday and Wednesday but if your average weight for February is 5lbs heavier then your average weight for January, something is probably up.
  • CynthiaT60
    CynthiaT60 Posts: 1,280 Member
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    In for the awesomeness.

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