Protien Question

rml_16

cool

but i am over on my carbs now lol
oh well i am still under cals for the day

and i do a lot of running so really need carbs as well

x

Basically, concentrate on eating healthy foods and your calories. As far as weight loss goes, calories are really what counts. I've never been one to worry about carbs and I've never had trouble losing.

The majority of my carbs come from whole grains, fruits and veggies, anyway. And, like you said, carbs give you energy for exercise and they also feed your brain!

lucysmommy

thanks

will deffo stop over analyising it and just get on with it
x

Vipecap

Fairly certain condescending answers are not needed because you think someone is wrong or because you think most trainers are stupid.

http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/19/suppl_5/513S#SEC3

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/high-protein-diets/AN00847

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/healthy-diet/NU00200

http://my.clevelandclinic.org/sports_health/nutrition/protein.aspx

If you are going to make those claims, at least show where you are getting your information so it doesn't become an "I'm right, your wrong" back and forth. You also forgot to mention that they are just guidelines and everyone's body responds differently. What may work for 99% people still may not work for 1%.

rml_16

This is from the Cleveland Clinic link YOU posted:

The following is a guideline that can be used to determine how much protein an athlete requires:
Competitive adult: 1.4-2.0 gm/kg body weight
Teenage athlete: 1.8-2.0 gm/kg body weight
Strength athlete: 1.4-1.8 gm/kg body weight
Endurance athlete: 1.2-1.4 gm/kg body weight
Maximum usable amount for adults: 2.0 gm/kg body weight

Which is what I said.

Nowhere in there does it say 1g per pound of body weight.

In fact, everything you posted supports what I said. I don't think trainers are stupid. I think trainers are undereducated for doling out nutrition advice.

Vipecap

You are right, the information I posted supports what you say. That was the whole point...? It was to show that you are providing information from reliable sources, not just saying it to say it. There are trainers who dole out advice completely in line with what you say, as there are those that dole out all kinds of wrong advice. Sweeping generalizations are never a good thing.

rml_16

You are right, the information I posted supports what you say. That was the whole point...? It was to show that you are providing information from reliable sources, not just saying it to say it. There are trainers who dole out advice completely in line with what you say, as there are those that dole out all kinds of wrong advice. Sweeping generalizations are never a good thing.

OK. I was confused. Thanks for posting the links. I get tired of looking them up all the time, but I have posted them before.

And I know there are trainers who have a clue. That's why I said "most" and not "all." I know enough people who have become PTs who don't have the nutritional training.

I wasn't meaning to be condescending. I just get so exasperated by this subject. I've seen so many people here say something to the effect of, "You can never have too much protein." No one's going to say you don't need protein, but you CAN have too much and the health effects can be pretty bad, so it's hard to just let that go.

And the 1g per pound is way more than anyone needs. I keep seeing that pop up, too. I guess I'm saying what I said I said out of concern, not to be mean.

musclebuilder

My trainer has given us the guideline of eating a minimum of 80g of protein per day up the equivalent of your weight. For example, if you weigh 155 lbs then eat between 80g and 155g of protein per day.

Did you ask your trainer what kind of nutrition education he has? How much time he spent learning about that kind of thing? Most trainers have learned very little about nutrition or anatomy.

I wouldn't take the advice of a trainer on something like this. They're great at showing you how to exercise, but that's about it.

It worries me that they give nutritional advice because most of them don't actually know what they're talking about. You can do a quick Google search and find out what you need.

No human body can absorb more than 2g per kilogram of body weight, so eating 1g per pound is more than your body can absorb.

The health side effects include kidney and liver problems, a couple friends of mine had to have major stomach surgery (and will have health problems the rest of their lives) after getting too much protein on the advice of trainers and excess protein leaches calcium from the bones, which can lead to osteoporosis.

The 2 g per kilogram is also recommended for people who are elite athletes, not the average person.

rml_16, I have not seen any evidence that high protein intake has any adverse effects on healthy kidney or liver function. The evidence I have seen suggests that low protein diets does not prevent the decline in renal function with age but may acually contribute to the decline. As far as high protein and liver function. Again, no evidence suggests any adverse effects in healthy liver function. In fact I have read numerous studies that increased protein intake is beneficial for those with liver disease and improves function. Which makes sense since protein is needed to repair the tissue. As far as higher protein diets causing an increase in calcium excretion which over time may lead to osteoporosis. That is certainly debatable. There have been studies done on healthy young women on low protein diets who developed hypocalciuria .While low protein diets show decreased calcium excretion, low protein intake also shows significant reduction in intestinal calcium absorption. Which may lead to a reduction in calcium balance.

TateFTW

If you go to "my home" and click on "goals" then you can select "change goals" and put in your own numbers. I think this is far superior to just knowing that what you want is different from the numbers on the screen.

Personally, I think those that are doing any resistance training should get around 1 g pr lb of bodyweight. I don't really know how kg's relate to that, because I'm amercian and therefore don't care about the system the rest of the world uses (I've been told they're all wrong and everything we do is right).

Kg is how it's figured, even in the US. Sorry to tell you. My info is from the Mayo Clinic and Cleveland Clinic, which are in the US.

1g per pound is WAY more than you need and WAY more than your body can absorb. You can cause major health problems if you're getting that much on a regular basis.

And it's nice that YOU think that's what people should get, but I'll go with what experts say. Thanks, anyway.

Wow. Your kind of a jerk. You tell me I'm wrong, then in the next post say not to worry about carbs because you didn't worry about carbs and you still lost. But that's cool. I'll just assume that what worked for me and what I've read hundreds of times worked for others is wrong, and a women who can't even get a joke about american egocentrism is correct.

rml_16

If you go to "my home" and click on "goals" then you can select "change goals" and put in your own numbers. I think this is far superior to just knowing that what you want is different from the numbers on the screen.

Personally, I think those that are doing any resistance training should get around 1 g pr lb of bodyweight. I don't really know how kg's relate to that, because I'm amercian and therefore don't care about the system the rest of the world uses (I've been told they're all wrong and everything we do is right).

Unless you're diabetic, too many carbs won't cause major health problems.

Kg is how it's figured, even in the US. Sorry to tell you. My info is from the Mayo Clinic and Cleveland Clinic, which are in the US.

1g per pound is WAY more than you need and WAY more than your body can absorb. You can cause major health problems if you're getting that much on a regular basis.

And it's nice that YOU think that's what people should get, but I'll go with what experts say. Thanks, anyway.

Wow. Your kind of a jerk. You tell me I'm wrong, then in the next post say not to worry about carbs because you didn't worry about carbs and you still lost. But that's cool. I'll just assume that what worked for me and what I've read hundreds of times worked for others is wrong, and a women who can't even get a joke about american egocentrism is correct.

My response apparently didn't take.

I got the joke. It just wasn't funny.

And too many carbs won't cause the adverse health effects that too much protein will. This isn't about weight loss. It's about not killing yourself or causing permanant health problems. If all you're worried about is losing weight, then too much protein (as long as you're within your calorie goals) won't keep you from losing weight.

I personally, in the real world, know more than one person who has had serious health issues caused by too much protein who was otherwise healthy.

rml_16

My trainer has given us the guideline of eating a minimum of 80g of protein per day up the equivalent of your weight. For example, if you weigh 155 lbs then eat between 80g and 155g of protein per day.

Did you ask your trainer what kind of nutrition education he has? How much time he spent learning about that kind of thing? Most trainers have learned very little about nutrition or anatomy.

I wouldn't take the advice of a trainer on something like this. They're great at showing you how to exercise, but that's about it.

It worries me that they give nutritional advice because most of them don't actually know what they're talking about. You can do a quick Google search and find out what you need.

No human body can absorb more than 2g per kilogram of body weight, so eating 1g per pound is more than your body can absorb.

The health side effects include kidney and liver problems, a couple friends of mine had to have major stomach surgery (and will have health problems the rest of their lives) after getting too much protein on the advice of trainers and excess protein leaches calcium from the bones, which can lead to osteoporosis.

The 2 g per kilogram is also recommended for people who are elite athletes, not the average person.

rml_16, I have not seen any evidence that high protein intake has any adverse effects on healthy kidney or liver function. The evidence I have seen suggests that low protein diets does not prevent the decline in renal function with age but may acually contribute to the decline. As far as high protein and liver function. Again, no evidence suggests any adverse effects in healthy liver function. In fact I have read numerous studies that increased protein intake is beneficial for those with liver disease and improves function. Which makes sense since protein is needed to repair the tissue. As far as higher protein diets causing an increase in calcium excretion which over time may lead to osteoporosis. That is certainly debatable. There have been studies done on healthy young women on low protein diets who developed hypocalciuria .While low protein diets show decreased calcium excretion, low protein intake also shows significant reduction in intestinal calcium absorption. Which may lead to a reduction in calcium balance.

There's a difference between a low protein diet and a diet in which you get enough protein. I'm not talking about limiting protein intake to unhealthy levels. I'm saying you need a certain amount for your health, but too much will harm you.

If the Mayo Clinic and the Cleveland Clinic and my many, many friends and relatives who are RNs, doctors and nutritionists are in agreement on this one, I tend to believe it.

musclebuilder

My trainer has given us the guideline of eating a minimum of 80g of protein per day up the equivalent of your weight. For example, if you weigh 155 lbs then eat between 80g and 155g of protein per day.

Did you ask your trainer what kind of nutrition education he has? How much time he spent learning about that kind of thing? Most trainers have learned very little about nutrition or anatomy.

I wouldn't take the advice of a trainer on something like this. They're great at showing you how to exercise, but that's about it.

It worries me that they give nutritional advice because most of them don't actually know what they're talking about. You can do a quick Google search and find out what you need.

No human body can absorb more than 2g per kilogram of body weight, so eating 1g per pound is more than your body can absorb.

The health side effects include kidney and liver problems, a couple friends of mine had to have major stomach surgery (and will have health problems the rest of their lives) after getting too much protein on the advice of trainers and excess protein leaches calcium from the bones, which can lead to osteoporosis.

The 2 g per kilogram is also recommended for people who are elite athletes, not the average person.

rml_16, I have not seen any evidence that high protein intake has any adverse effects on healthy kidney or liver function. The evidence I have seen suggests that low protein diets does not prevent the decline in renal function with age but may acually contribute to the decline. As far as high protein and liver function. Again, no evidence suggests any adverse effects in healthy liver function. In fact I have read numerous studies that increased protein intake is beneficial for those with liver disease and improves function. Which makes sense since protein is needed to repair the tissue. As far as higher protein diets causing an increase in calcium excretion which over time may lead to osteoporosis. That is certainly debatable. There have been studies done on healthy young women on low protein diets who developed hypocalciuria .While low protein diets show decreased calcium excretion, low protein intake also shows significant reduction in intestinal calcium absorption. Which may lead to a reduction in calcium balance.

There's a difference between a low protein diet and a diet in which you get enough protein. I'm not talking about limiting protein intake to unhealthy levels. I'm saying you need a certain amount for your health, but too much will harm you.

If the Mayo Clinic and the Cleveland Clinic and my many, many friends and relatives who are RNs, doctors and nutritionists are in agreement on this one, I tend to believe it.

Right..And all these adverse health effects you speak of are all related to high protein intake. And I am saying I have not seen evidence that these claims hold any water what so ever.

TateFTW

Can any of those RN's bench press their bodyweight 8 times and squat 1.5 times their bodyweight 5 times? Because I did yesterday. Amazing considering my horribly damaged organs from the 285 grams of protein I consumed, which is far more then I ever suggested the average person who's not looking for strength consume.

Maybe you should research the effects of stress. I'm concerned, considering how high-strung you seem to be about something so trivial.

*high fives musclebuilder*

TateFTW

From a paper released by the Departments of Nutritional Science and Kinesiology of the Unviersity of Cennicticut;

"Although excessive protein intake remains a health concern in individuals with pre-existing renal disease, the literature lacks significant research demonstrating a link between protein intake and the initiation or progression of renal disease in healthy individuals. More importantly, evidence suggests that protein-induced changes in renal function are likely a normal adaptative mechanism well within the functional limits of a healthy kidney. Without question, long-term studies are needed to clarify the scant evidence currently available regarding this relationship. At present, there is not sufficient proof to warrant public health directives aimed at restricting dietary protein intake in healthy adults for the purpose of preserving renal function."

And from The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition;

"Protein is an important structural component of bone and protein supplementation improves the medical outcome of hip fracture patients, but it is unknown whether protein intake can reduce the incidence risk of hip fracture."

Which lead to the conclusion;

"Intake of dietary protein, especially from animal sources, may be associated with a reduced incidence of hip fractures in postmenopausal women."

What was that about protein causing the bones to LOSE calcium?

From the Journal of Nutrition;

"Whether high protein diets result in an increase in bone resorption and higher fracture rates remains uncertain.
Bone is complex tissue that changes slowly. As such, it is difficult to design and conduct well-controlled nutrition studies in humans to quantify the effect of one nutrient on bone. However, given the increasing prevalence of osteoporosis and the clear impact of dietary protein on calcium metabolism, it is imperative that we gain a better understanding of the complex interplay between dietary protein and skeletal health. Toward that end, longer-term physiologic studies and, eventually, dietary intervention studies will be required to provide better-informed dietary protein guidelines for optimal skeletal health."

TateFTW

I found a few studies that suggest a connection between high-protein intake and bone loss in postmenopausal women. The studies admitted that the statistics show only a correlation, however, and further long-term studies will need to take place in order to establish an actual causal relationship between high-protein intake and lost bone density. Many of the same studies tout the benefits of high-protein diets for appetite supression and over-all weight loss.

In the end, considering that the OP is 26, I'm not that worried for her.

brityn

My aunt is a nutritionalist at UCSF and suggests I eat between 1g and 1.5g of protein for every pound I weigh. If you're sedentary (spell?) then it's way less, but I run four days a week, usually between 15-20 miles, and i do intense sports circuit training for an hour three days a week. At my weight (135 lbs) my body can only absorb approx 25g. of protein at a time. So, I have to spread it out throughout the day. It's true that you can gain weight if you go over on protein, but that's only if you're over on your calories. As with anything, fat protein or carbs, if you eat over your calories, that's how you gain weight. So, keep it lean!

musclebuilder

Not sure why some people have a "beef" with protein?

Heres some more studies on the subject for those who are interested.

http://ndt.oxfordjournals.org/content/20/3/657.full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2129142/
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/89/3/1169

abcollins1355

My trainer has given us the guideline of eating a minimum of 80g of protein per day up the equivalent of your weight. For example, if you weigh 155 lbs then eat between 80g and 155g of protein per day.

Did you ask your trainer what kind of nutrition education he has? How much time he spent learning about that kind of thing? Most trainers have learned very little about nutrition or anatomy.

I wouldn't take the advice of a trainer on something like this. They're great at showing you how to exercise, but that's about it.

It worries me that they give nutritional advice because most of them don't actually know what they're talking about. You can do a quick Google search and find out what you need.

No human body can absorb more than 2g per kilogram of body weight, so eating 1g per pound is more than your body can absorb.

The health side effects include kidney and liver problems, a couple friends of mine had to have major stomach surgery (and will have health problems the rest of their lives) after getting too much protein on the advice of trainers and excess protein leaches calcium from the bones, which can lead to osteoporosis.

The 2 g per kilogram is also recommended for people who are elite athletes, not the average person.

Before you go bashing trainers, please post studies where you can cite that the human body can not asorb more than x amount of protein.

Your body does not "asborb" protein. It breaks it down and uses it to make ATP or energy. Extra protein is treated the same as extra carbs or extra fat. Anything over your calories will be stored as fat. If you are undereating your calories, then it simply uses the calories.

The thing about eating the optimal amount of protein when in a deficiet is to maintain and spare what muscle mass you do have while getting enough calories to do what is required and eating low enough to force the body to lose body fat specifically.

And Women by and large typically under eat protein and over eat carbs. So if she goes a little over protein, i see no issues with that.

And let me break it down for you even more.
Protein: Most studies out suggest that in the face of ADEQUATE calories and CARBS then the following protein intakes are sufficient:
STRENGTH training -> 1.2 to 1.6g per KG bodyweight (about .6 / pound)
ENDURANCE training -> 1.4 to 1.8g per KG bodyweight (about .8 / pound)
ADOLESCENT in training -> 1.8 to 2.2g per KG bodyweight (about 1g / pound)
BUT they also acknowledge that protein becomes MORE important in the context of LOWER calorie intakes, or LOWER carb intakes.

Anyway - you can see that the general recommendations given in the 'bodybuilding' area (1g / pound) is nearly double this! And although the evidence out to suggest a NEED for this requirement is scarce - some general 'bodybuilding' guidelines would be based as follows:
If bodyfat UNKNOWN but AVERAGE = 1-1.25g per pound weight
If bodyfat KNOWN = 1.25-1.5g per LEAN weight

If you are VERY LEAN or if you are on a LOW TOTAL CALORIE INTAKE then protein becomes more important - so stick toward the higher levels:
Average bodyfat, lower calorie intake = 1.25-1.5 x pound total mass
Bodyfat known, lower calorie intake = 1.33-2 x pounds lean mass

If you are VERY OVERWEIGHT, VERY INACTIVE, and NOT on a lower calorie diet then you should stick closer to, or decrease slightly BELOW the above levels:
protein = something around the 1 x total weight (down to 1 x LEAN MASS).

Please note that those estimates are per body weight in KG, not pounds which is where a lot of people get confused,

And as you can see for the average person, 1g or there abouts per bodyweight in KG is perfectly accpetable.
You only need higher levels when you are looking at certain demographics.

For this poster i would say the 1g/kg should be fine and if its a tad over that then not to worry as long as adequate carbs and fats are being met.

And yes, some of us do know a thing or two about nutririon.