Your food is no cleaner than mine
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If however you just think eating animal products isn't terribly healthy, then doing so occasionally isn't really a big deal at all.
As for the difference between trying to follow a lifestyle plan and actually following it, isn't the whole point of just about any lifestyle plan that you adapt it to YOUR lifestyle? That inherently means you're going to change things around a bit and make it work for you; there is no 100% right or wrong way to do it. Plus, again, this is about food and health not morality, so not having a perfect day isn't a big deal. Do all IIFYMers or moderation eaters have perfect days every day, or do they occasionally go over or not meet their macro/calorie goals? If so, does that mean they're not actually following their diet?
If someone eats a piece of cheese and says, "I'm vegan but not for moral reasons" it's likely a vegan will just say, "You aren't vegan." It doesn't really matter why you're eating the cheese. It's cool, eat the cheese, but you aren't vegan. I believe that we are that way because people claiming to be vegan while eating the office birthday cake contributes to a lot of confusion, questioning, and comparisons (so and so will eat it), and error about what really is vegan.
Yes, lifestyle plans are somewhat adaptable. But at some point, it becomes silly to call yourself something you aren't. (Again, the difference between "I'm a clean eater" and "I aim for a clean diet.") I see people say "Eat in moderation or IIFYM" but I don't really see them label themselves as such. (I attempt to follow IIFYM but know that it's a guideline for me, not something I'm strict about or something I could honestly claim as my lifestyle.)
By the rules on this board, I could call myself Paleo because more than 20% of my diet is not made up of tofu or legumes. Seems silly to do so if I actively allow for 20% of my calories to be from tofu or legumes, though.0 -
If someone eats a piece of cheese and says, "I'm vegan but not for moral reasons" it's likely a vegan will just say, "You aren't vegan." It doesn't really matter why you're eating the cheese. It's cool, eat the cheese, but you aren't vegan. I believe that we are that way because people claiming to be vegan while eating the office birthday cake contributes to a lot of confusion, questioning, and comparisons (so and so will eat it), and error about what really is vegan.
Same with "vegetarians" who eat fish. Drives me batty and people who aren't veg just assume I eat fish.0 -
If however you just think eating animal products isn't terribly healthy, then doing so occasionally isn't really a big deal at all.
As for the difference between trying to follow a lifestyle plan and actually following it, isn't the whole point of just about any lifestyle plan that you adapt it to YOUR lifestyle? That inherently means you're going to change things around a bit and make it work for you; there is no 100% right or wrong way to do it. Plus, again, this is about food and health not morality, so not having a perfect day isn't a big deal. Do all IIFYMers or moderation eaters have perfect days every day, or do they occasionally go over or not meet their macro/calorie goals? If so, does that mean they're not actually following their diet?
If someone eats a piece of cheese and says, "I'm vegan but not for moral reasons" it's likely a vegan will just say, "You aren't vegan." It doesn't really matter why you're eating the cheese. It's cool, eat the cheese, but you aren't vegan. I believe that we are that way because people claiming to be vegan while eating the office birthday cake contributes to a lot of confusion, questioning, and comparisons (so and so will eat it), and error about what really is vegan.
Yes, lifestyle plans are somewhat adaptable. But at some point, it becomes silly to call yourself something you aren't. (Again, the difference between "I'm a clean eater" and "I aim for a clean diet.") I see people say "Eat in moderation or IIFYM" but I don't really see them label themselves as such. (I attempt to follow IIFYM but know that it's a guideline for me, not something I'm strict about or something I could honestly claim as my lifestyle.)
By the rules on this board, I could call myself Paleo because more than 20% of my diet is not made up of tofu or legumes. Seems silly to do so if I actively allow for 20% of my calories to be from tofu or legumes, though.
This this this. I mean, you can call yourself whatever you want, but if you're truly going to say you're something you should conform to the above. If you're going to be vegan and say you're vegan and then eat a piece of cheese it creates confusion for non-vegans who then have misconceptions about what vegans eat, etc. Now, I personally don't agree with vegans calling non-moral vegans not vegan, because I find it to be a dietary lifestyle that doesn't always =/= acute animal awareness. But again, that's just me! I've found that (with ME), when I'm strictly following raw veganism I get very sensitive about animals, religion, et cetera, so it may go hand in hand, or I might just be weird! But I personally wouldn't tell someone they're not vegan because they don't care about the animals (they're prolly just jerks).0 -
Now, I personally don't agree with vegans calling non-moral vegans not vegan, because I find it to be a dietary lifestyle that doesn't always =/= acute animal awareness. But again, that's just me!
Oh, to clarify, vegans for health are still vegans. Unless they are munching on a piece of cheese while saying they are still vegan because it's different when you aren't vegan for moral reasons so not a big deal.
No offense intended to the vegans who are vegan for health rather than ethics. I'm sure you have lots of morality and ethics, as do the omnivores, the Paleo, the breatharians, the IIFYM, the fruitarians, and the keto's. (We know clean eaters are self-righteous and probably downright immoral, so I'll leave them out.)0 -
Can we just roll this **** so it stops appearing on my recent posts?
^this
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Can we just roll this **** so it stops appearing on my recent posts?
^this
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Clean eating has so many meaning depending on who u r speaking to or what product is trying to use the term to sale. I view clean eating as organic non pesticide grown natural all terms that can also be manipulated. I guess the best example I could think of is homegrown vegetable. I use non gmo seeds which really not sure what means and I use no chemicals all them so I would categorize them as clean eating but also with this being said I am not a vegetarian and don't raise my own meat so I am sure much like my Mcds habit I am getting all sorts of hormones and additives that I cant even name and it hasn't effected me yet unless I want to blame my thick thighs on them lol why not no one takes responsibility for there choices anymore (example suing because coffee is hot lol)0
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I love it when people get there knickers in a twist about what things are called!
Can't question the healthiness of a diet so I will piss and whine that it's called the wrong thing!
I know these things make you guys mad - but seriously!
LMAO -- Made my day.0 -
Here here! You said exactly what I was thinking. Thank you!0
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You do realize that by and large the only people who talk about dirty food are those who are against clean eating right? I've never heard any clean eater talk about food being dirty; most don't get close to even judging other people's food choices. Most of the clean eaters I know or those like me who subscribe to the idea of clean eating don't think of clean as being a moral judgment or of other foods are dirty. Usually clean is used in these contexts to mean not possessing things that individual doesn't want to put in their body - therefore, the opposite to clean isn't dirty, it's things they just don't want to put in their body. At worst the opposite of clean eating is eating 'undesirable' things, but since it's more or less defined individually, I hardly see how that's prblematic. Food is always desriable or undesirable on an individual basis - just because I hate celery because it tastes icky to me, and therefore its undesirable and I don't want to eat it, does that somehow affect you and your relationship with celery? If it does, that's a problem with you, not with me.
People all have different views on what is healthy or unhealthy, and what they want to put in their body. If someone wants to chose not to put animal products, or processed food, or pesticides, or GMOs into their body, why do you care? Its their personal food choices, and you shouldn't get to judge them for it, even if what you're judging is how they describe their eating style.
I think it's argumentative to try and say that labelling something clean MUST mean that anything else is dirty, and that it's ridiculous to judge a way of eating on nothing more than its name. Naming conventions aren't about being perfectly descriptive, they're about being catchy. If you have to get all philosophical to find a good argument against a person choosing to eat clean, I think you're really reaching. That, and clean's a perfectly acceptable way of describing most of these food plans. They're based largely on eliminating undesirable (defined by each individual or individual plan) elements from our food and diet - that's one meaning of clean.
It can't be forgotten that words have many meanings or slightly different meanings depending on context. Yes, in some contexts clean and dirty have moral connotations; in others, they really really don't. Reading those kinds of things into this context is quite beside the point and actually rather inappropriate. I'd say that to anyone on either side of the debate, but honestly, I've only ever seen it from clean eating bashers.
Here here! You said exactly what I was thinking. Thank you!0 -
Right TennisDude.
Someone who's not Paleo telling me I'm not Paleo is just about as valid as someone who's not a clean eater telling a clean eater their diet isn't clean.
But, sometimes it's good to have something to argue about, and diet theories are relatively harmless in the grand scheme of things.
(I will now patiently await someone to search my journal and see that I ate OMG PIZZA!!! this week!)
Make sure to point out that PIZZA is NOT paleo.
You are not paleo. IMO, nobody is. I don't have to "be" paleo to know that.
You are not Barney the Purple dinosaur either. I don't have to be Purple to know that.0 -
I consider clean eating to be when I wash my fruits and vegetables before eating them, and when I wash my hands after handling raw meat. :drinker:
Interesting read. I see the term "clean eating" come up so much. I like to browse food magazines when I'm in the grocery store. Those two words are often paired together. It just seems so silly to me. Why give up something you love? Why not just enjoy it in moderation? I don't care if someone considers my coffee dirty. I'm still going to drink it with my dirty cereal in the morning sometimes. :drinker:0 -
I eat what I want, when I want it and primarily in moderation. I do not deprive myself of anything. It's a life style change and doing what I do has worked for me...
Skol...............:bigsmile:0 -
Right TennisDude.
Someone who's not Paleo telling me I'm not Paleo is just about as valid as someone who's not a clean eater telling a clean eater their diet isn't clean.
But, sometimes it's good to have something to argue about, and diet theories are relatively harmless in the grand scheme of things.
(I will now patiently await someone to search my journal and see that I ate OMG PIZZA!!! this week!)
Make sure to point out that PIZZA is NOT paleo.
You are not paleo. IMO, nobody is. I don't have to "be" paleo to know that.
You are not Barney the Purple dinosaur either. I don't have to be Purple to know that.
Pizza isn't paleo.0 -
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Rooted in a fear of science???Really, the *only* way a person can jump to "if you don't intuit my meaning of clean you are a condescending, mean, obtuse bully whut hates us allz!" from something as simple as, "Clean doesn't have a defnitive meaning" is if it's meaning is more emotional than technical.
Which is *exactly* what is being argued.
It's like that thing where people assume that organics taste more "real" than non-organics, when it's been repeatedly proven that you can't actually tell a difference in a blind taste test.
Clean eating is nonsense. It's a made up, undefined term. It's rooted in a fear of science, it's the food version of anti-vaccinations for kids.
-Processed food is bad!
-Why?
-Um.. chemicals.
-Everything is made up of chemicals.
-You know what I mean!
No, I really don't. And since you eat processed foods anyway, stop patting yourself on the back for occasionally adhering to a diet you completely made up and may not have any health or weight loss benefits in the first place.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:0 -
You do realize that by and large the only people who talk about dirty food are those who are against clean eating right? I've never heard any clean eater talk about food being dirty; most don't get close to even judging other people's food choices. Most of the clean eaters I know or those like me who subscribe to the idea of clean eating don't think of clean as being a moral judgment or of other foods are dirty. Usually clean is used in these contexts to mean not possessing things that individual doesn't want to put in their body - therefore, the opposite to clean isn't dirty, it's things they just don't want to put in their body. At worst the opposite of clean eating is eating 'undesirable' things, but since it's more or less defined individually, I hardly see how that's prblematic. Food is always desriable or undesirable on an individual basis - just because I hate celery because it tastes icky to me, and therefore its undesirable and I don't want to eat it, does that somehow affect you and your relationship with celery? If it does, that's a problem with you, not with me.
People all have different views on what is healthy or unhealthy, and what they want to put in their body. If someone wants to chose not to put animal products, or processed food, or pesticides, or GMOs into their body, why do you care? Its their personal food choices, and you shouldn't get to judge them for it, even if what you're judging is how they describe their eating style.
I think it's argumentative to try and say that labelling something clean MUST mean that anything else is dirty, and that it's ridiculous to judge a way of eating on nothing more than its name. Naming conventions aren't about being perfectly descriptive, they're about being catchy. If you have to get all philosophical to find a good argument against a person choosing to eat clean, I think you're really reaching. That, and clean's a perfectly acceptable way of describing most of these food plans. They're based largely on eliminating undesirable (defined by each individual or individual plan) elements from our food and diet - that's one meaning of clean.
It can't be forgotten that words have many meanings or slightly different meanings depending on context. Yes, in some contexts clean and dirty have moral connotations; in others, they really really don't. Reading those kinds of things into this context is quite beside the point and actually rather inappropriate. I'd say that to anyone on either side of the debate, but honestly, I've only ever seen it from clean eating bashers.
I've lost count of the number of times I see clean eaters referring to things as crap, junk, garbage, or making comments about how eating those things ruins your body. This thread is full of comments like that. It's not just the clean eating bashers, there are plenty of clean eaters who think they have some moral or health high ground. I get tired of the connotation that I shouldn't be losing weight or that I deserve some sort of health punishment because I don't eat clean. It's like they are almost angry that I am having success with weight loss and am not lying half-dead on the floor. Not to mention that around here, if you don't eat clean, you're viewed as a champion of fast food and boxed dinners, regardless of your actual diet.
I do agree that there's nothing wrong with wanting to eat a certain way, and there are plenty of foods that are not included in my diet for various reasons. I don't care one way or the other if someone else eats them or their reason for doing so, as long as they show me the same courtesy.0 -
Right TennisDude.
Someone who's not Paleo telling me I'm not Paleo is just about as valid as someone who's not a clean eater telling a clean eater their diet isn't clean.
But, sometimes it's good to have something to argue about, and diet theories are relatively harmless in the grand scheme of things.
(I will now patiently await someone to search my journal and see that I ate OMG PIZZA!!! this week!)
Make sure to point out that PIZZA is NOT paleo.
You are not paleo. IMO, nobody is. I don't have to "be" paleo to know that.
You are not Barney the Purple dinosaur either. I don't have to be Purple to know that.
Pizza isn't paleo.
May or may not have been a significant factor in ending my year of Paleo eating (2012)...
...because pizza.0
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