12 week bulk results

likitisplit

My gym does a 12 week long contest that includes a hydrostatic body composition analysis at the beginning and the end.

I just got my results: A perfect recomp. 2.5 pounds of muscle gained. 2.5 pounds of fat lost.

I maintain at 2050 calories + exercise.

I bulked for the last 12 weeks at 2350 + exercise. I followed the Convict Conditioning progressive calisthenics program and continued running (about 15 miles/week).

My waist measurement is around 35 inches and I'm currently at 26% body fat.

My question is: are these results possible or do they indicate a mis-measurement? They make absolutely no sense to me at all.

Thanks for your insight!!!

deksgrl

In, because I'm interested to hear any answers/discussion.

NRBreit

Just to clarify, if you maintain on 2050 cals and you ate 2350 for 12 weeks, how did you end up weighing the same at the end of 12 weeks?

Is it possible to recomp 2.5 pounds and stay at the same weight? IMO, I'd say it's perfectly possible, especially if you are new to weight training or back from a break. But it's also within the margin of error for most forms of body composition analysis. One of the best ways to double check progress is a simple tape measure around the waist...if the measurement gets smaller, then you got leaner.

likitisplit

Maybe I actually do need to weigh my food?

Honestly, I don't know how I maintained. My weight spikes and falls pretty dramatically. But, when I look back at my records, I had a couple of points where I gained a few pounds, but my weight kept drifting back to the 175 number even though I was eating to the point of feeling sick about food.

I can see a visible difference in muscle, especially through my obliques, but I may have gained about an inch around my waist (that depends on bloating, etc, too)

So, it would be safe to say that there was no real change?

NRBreit

It's tough to say because there are so many variables (water weight, BF test margin of error, etc.). My waist measurement can vary the couple of inches during the same day. But if the mirror shows more muscle than you're headed in the right direction. Weighing your food will definitely help dial in your calories - seems like you might be underestimating a bit.

cricket_77

It sounds like this was more of a recomp rather than a bulk. You gained some muscle and lost some fat at the same time. Did you take measurements beforehand? If so, you might weigh the same, but your measurements would likely be smaller.

MyChocolateDiet

Maybe I actually do need to weigh my food?

likitisplit

It sounds like this was more of a recomp rather than a bulk. You gained some muscle and lost some fat at the same time. Did you take measurements beforehand? If so, you might weigh the same, but your measurements would likely be smaller.

Yeah, that's what they said happened. I'm not sure if a recomp is really physically possible, let alone likely.

I've been pretty good at losing at a steady pace and maintaining without being totally stringent about food measurement, and I can tell you that I was eating MORE, even if I can't say exactly how much more...which is why I never bothered getting new batteries for my food scale.

cricket_77

If you were not weighing your food, you could have been eating above maintenance some days and below other days which could easily result in a recomp. Be happy!! If you did bulk, you would have put on fat along with the muscle. You actually lost fat AND put on muscle at the same time. Good job!!

JoRocka

I'm confused.. did I do a bad job reading here??

if you aren't weighing food how you knew if you were over or under or maintaining???

Holly_Roman_Empire

Curious as to others' opinions, too.

likitisplit

I'm confused.. did I do a bad job reading here??

if you aren't weighing food how you knew if you were over or under or maintaining???

Because of how my body responded to what I was doing. The first time I did the hydrostatic weigh in, it estimated my BMR to be around 1750. That works out to about 2012 calories for maintenance.

I lose about 1/2 a pound a week at 1850 - which I did for several months - and maintain at 2050 - which I did for 6 months.

Most of my lunches come from our Sodexo cafeteria, so I use their MFP entries. For things like steak or chicken, I'll use package weight. For something like spaghetti noodles, I use cups. I've measured most of my serving utensils, so (for example) I know my sauce ladle holds half a cup. I've added most of my recipes to my recipe dbase.

I don't wear a fitbit or anything else either, so I estimate 100 calories/mile walking or running and use MFP's weight training and stretching entries for everything else. It's all an estimation and it was working to a T in practice, so I didn't sweat it.

I can definitely say that I was eating *more* during the time I was trying to bulk than I was during the time I was trying to maintain. I absolutely should have gained.

KseRz

IN for recomping without tracking macro intake.

likitisplit

IN for recomping without tracking macro intake.

Generally 20% protein and I tend to split the rest between fat and carbs.

KseRz

IN for recomping without tracking macro intake.

Generally 20% protein and I tend to split the rest between fat and carbs.

20% of your surplus was protein and the other 80% was carbs & fat?

I dunno, if that were me, I would have gained 2.5lbs of fat and lost 2.5lbs of lean mass.

Congrats!


ETA: Assuming none of my carbs were green bananas and boiled potatoes

DavPul

I'm confused.. did I do a bad job reading here??

if you aren't weighing food how you knew if you were over or under or maintaining???

Because of how my body responded to what I was doing. The first time I did the hydrostatic weigh in, it estimated my BMR to be around 1750. That works out to about 2012 calories for maintenance.

I lose about 1/2 a pound a week at 1850 - which I did for several months - and maintain at 2050 - which I did for 6 months.

Most of my lunches come from our Sodexo cafeteria, so I use their MFP entries. For things like steak or chicken, I'll use package weight. For something like spaghetti noodles, I use cups. I've measured most of my serving utensils, so (for example) I know my sauce ladle holds half a cup. I've added most of my recipes to my recipe dbase.

I don't wear a fitbit or anything else either, so I estimate 100 calories/mile walking or running and use MFP's weight training and stretching entries for everything else. It's all an estimation and it was working to a T in practice, so I didn't sweat it.

I can definitely say that I was eating *more* during the time I was trying to bulk than I was during the time I was trying to maintain. I absolutely should have gained.

Just a couple of notes:

You can't really figure out your maintenance calorie requirements from a hydrostatic test. Or any body fat testing method. Because the amount required to maintain depends almost entirely on what you do all day/week/month. I mean, they can come up with a theory on how much you'd need if you were in a coma, but outside of that real world results will take precedent. And the variance can be huge. For me there can be a 1000 calorie difference between an active work day or a lay around and watch football day. That's *before* any exercise gets figured in.

So to use your bf% results to say that you must have eaten X number of calories for the last several months is going to be a highly inaccurate way to get that information. That's why you're going to get some blowback when you say that you haven't tracked food intake but you must have been eating 2050 calories or whatever. You just can't know that based on the information given.

likitisplit

I'm confused.. did I do a bad job reading here??

if you aren't weighing food how you knew if you were over or under or maintaining???

Because of how my body responded to what I was doing. The first time I did the hydrostatic weigh in, it estimated my BMR to be around 1750. That works out to about 2012 calories for maintenance.

I lose about 1/2 a pound a week at 1850 - which I did for several months - and maintain at 2050 - which I did for 6 months.

Most of my lunches come from our Sodexo cafeteria, so I use their MFP entries. For things like steak or chicken, I'll use package weight. For something like spaghetti noodles, I use cups. I've measured most of my serving utensils, so (for example) I know my sauce ladle holds half a cup. I've added most of my recipes to my recipe dbase.

I don't wear a fitbit or anything else either, so I estimate 100 calories/mile walking or running and use MFP's weight training and stretching entries for everything else. It's all an estimation and it was working to a T in practice, so I didn't sweat it.

I can definitely say that I was eating *more* during the time I was trying to bulk than I was during the time I was trying to maintain. I absolutely should have gained.

Just a couple of notes:

You can't really figure out your maintenance calorie requirements from a hydrostatic test. Or any body fat testing method. Because the amount required to maintain depends almost entirely on what you do all day/week/month. I mean, they can come up with a theory on how much you'd need if you were in a coma, but outside of that real world results will take precedent. And the variance can be huge. For me there can be a 1000 calorie difference between an active work day or a lay around and watch football day. That's *before* any exercise gets figured in.

So to use your bf% results to say that you must have eaten X number of calories for the last several months is going to be a highly inaccurate way to get that information. That's why you're going to get some blowback when you say that you haven't tracked food intake but you must have been eating 2050 calories or whatever. You just can't know that based on the information given.

Yeah, I know. But I'm not really fussed about the calories I ate, I was just including that for reference.

What I really want to know is whether whatever I did could result in a recomp or whether I should just chalk this up to measurement error.

I mean, 2.5 pounds of muscle seems like a lot for a 42-year-old woman to put on in three month's time. And to magically pull-off a perfect recomp?

DavPul

The results were within the margin for error so who knows? If you took the same test the very next day you'd get a slightly different number. I think the main things here aren't really about the results of the test at all.

Are you satisfied with where you are? If yes, excellent. If not, keep going. If really unhappy, maybe try something different. The other thing is that without having a good handle on your intake, it's hard to repeat or manipulate the results. Want to gain a bit more muscle, how do you adjust to eat more? Want to shed more fat, how do you adjust your intake down the correct amount.

I mean, you've pretty much proven that under normal conditions you eat right around maintenance. But now if you want to adjust it's a bit of a guessing game

likitisplit

The results were within the margin for error so who knows? If you took the same test the very next day you'd get a slightly different number. I think the main things here aren't really about the results of the test at all.

Are you satisfied with where you are? If yes, excellent. If not, keep going. If really unhappy, maybe try something different. The other thing is that without having a good handle on your intake, it's hard to repeat or manipulate the results. Want to gain a bit more muscle, how do you adjust to eat more? Want to shed more fat, how do you adjust your intake down the correct amount.

I mean, you've pretty much proven that under normal conditions you eat right around maintenance. But now if you want to adjust it's a bit of a guessing game

I've also lost body fat at a fairly consistent rate (if I can believe last year's test, which showed I gained muscle at a deficit).

likitisplit

The results were within the margin for error so who knows? If you took the same test the very next day you'd get a slightly different number. I think the main things here aren't really about the results of the test at all.

Are you satisfied with where you are? If yes, excellent. If not, keep going. If really unhappy, maybe try something different. The other thing is that without having a good handle on your intake, it's hard to repeat or manipulate the results. Want to gain a bit more muscle, how do you adjust to eat more? Want to shed more fat, how do you adjust your intake down the correct amount.

I mean, you've pretty much proven that under normal conditions you eat right around maintenance. But now if you want to adjust it's a bit of a guessing game

But yeah, that's what I thought. It's a bit of a wash.

I'd hate to do an actual bulk if a "recomp" was that hard, though.

I now know that I can eat more than I did at maintenance without gaining a lot of fat, so that's a plus. I think what I'm going to do is drop these extra few pounds and then try this again for longer. I'll have a chance to see what the longer term results are next February.

MagnumBurrito

Nice job. You ate in the zone. Definitely possible to recomp. The nerd fitness creator did a recomp during his plp workouts.

likitisplit

Nice job. You ate in the zone. Definitely possible to recomp. The nerd fitness creator did a recomp during his plp workouts.

I guess what I was taught before (low maintenance + lifting) wasn't really a recomp. You actually need to be slightly above maintenance?

MagnumBurrito

Nice job. You ate in the zone. Definitely possible to recomp. The nerd fitness creator did a recomp during his plp workouts.

I guess what I was taught before (low maintenance + lifting) wasn't really a recomp. You actually need to be slightly above maintenance?

Yep. It's the zone where you could gain more muscle but don't because you're not eating enough. It's perfect for ppl who still have some fat to lose but are willing to do it at a slower pace in the beginning. Once you put on some slabs of muscle, the fat will melt away.

likitisplit

Nice job. You ate in the zone. Definitely possible to recomp. The nerd fitness creator did a recomp during his plp workouts.

I guess what I was taught before (low maintenance + lifting) wasn't really a recomp. You actually need to be slightly above maintenance?

Yep. It's the zone where you could gain more muscle but don't because you're not eating enough. It's perfect for ppl who still have some fat to lose but are willing to do it at a slower pace in the beginning. Once you put on some slabs of muscle, the fat will melt away.

If you were me, would you keep doing this, or would you drop 3-5 pounds first?

MrGonzo05

It is possible to recomp. If you're happy with your progress, stay the course.

likitisplit

That's the thing. I have scale issues, the way many women do. While I theoretically want to mass loads of muscles, the reality is that I worry about getting fat.

My waist has increased by almost an inch and it's already bigger than the recommended 30"

When I told the guy doing the assessment my goals, he asked me why I wanted to build muscle before losing fat. And that was after he saw my results.

So, while I'm happy with many of the changes that I'm seeing, I'm not confident that continuing down that path will result in the lean strength that I desire.

__freckles__

I'd hate to do an actual bulk if a "recomp" was that hard, though.

I now know that I can eat more than I did at maintenance without gaining a lot of fat, so that's a plus. I think what I'm going to do is drop these extra few pounds and then try this again for longer. I'll have a chance to see what the longer term results are next February.

Why waste your time? Why not do a traditional bulk/cut cycle while counting calories? If you're going to put in all the work at the gym, why not just track to ensure you're building muscle during bulking and then losing fat during the cut?

likitisplit

I'd hate to do an actual bulk if a "recomp" was that hard, though.

I now know that I can eat more than I did at maintenance without gaining a lot of fat, so that's a plus. I think what I'm going to do is drop these extra few pounds and then try this again for longer. I'll have a chance to see what the longer term results are next February.

Why waste your time? Why not do a traditional bulk/cut cycle while counting calories? If you're going to put in all the work at the gym, why not just track to ensure you're building muscle during bulking and then losing fat during the cut?

Because I was already eating until I was sick of food.

I'm not sure that I AM putting in the work to justify a more aggressive bulk and, if I'm going to have to start weighing my food to see serious results, it makes me question whether I have the time to become that committed.

I mean, how much more muscle could I hope to gain over 12 weeks? Would it be worth the effort?

These were some of the questions I hoped to answer by taking a casual approach with clear beginning and end measurements. Instead, I've ended up with less clarity and more questions.

I really appreciate the help you all are giving me with sorting all this out.

__freckles__

That's the thing. I have scale issues, the way many women do. While I theoretically want to mass loads of muscles, the reality is that I worry about getting fat.

My waist has increased by almost an inch and it's already bigger than the recommended 30"

When I told the guy doing the assessment my goals, he asked me why I wanted to build muscle before losing fat. And that was after he saw my results.

So, while I'm happy with many of the changes that I'm seeing, I'm not confident that continuing down that path will result in the lean strength that I desire.

Bulking is a mental mind *kitten*. But it's hard enough for women to build muscle so it's the most effective way from what I've read/heard from other women who've done it. I'm on week 13 of my first bulk. Going to wrap it up in about 3 weeks and then start cutting. I never counted calories until I started bulking. I absolutely hate counting calories as I've come to learn. But I'm doing it because, as I alluded to in my post above, I don't want to waste my time. It's the only way to ensure I'm eating at a surplus. Yes, you are going to feel fat and fluffy if you chose to bulk. But you gotta keep your eye on the end game.

JoRocka

I'd hate to do an actual bulk if a "recomp" was that hard, though.

I now know that I can eat more than I did at maintenance without gaining a lot of fat, so that's a plus. I think what I'm going to do is drop these extra few pounds and then try this again for longer. I'll have a chance to see what the longer term results are next February.

Why waste your time? Why not do a traditional bulk/cut cycle while counting calories? If you're going to put in all the work at the gym, why not just track to ensure you're building muscle during bulking and then losing fat during the cut?

Because I was already eating until I was sick of food.

I'm not sure that I AM putting in the work to justify a more aggressive bulk and, if I'm going to have to start weighing my food to see serious results, it makes me question whether I have the time to become that committed.

I mean, how much more muscle could I hope to gain over 12 weeks? Would it be worth the effort?

These were some of the questions I hoped to answer by taking a casual approach with clear beginning and end measurements. Instead, I've ended up with less clarity and more questions.

I really appreciate the help you all are giving me with sorting all this out.

it's more data. Really- especially for you at this stage it seems.

Bulking IS hard. You must be very confident to bulk. I have as healthy of a realtionship with food- my weight and my scale numbers as one can be- do I have down days? sure- but as a whole- when I'm working out I'm wildly happy with myself- I usually only get mopy when I miss a week of work and my invisible squishy body image happens.... that being said- my birthday was mid bulk- (YAY CAKE!!!!) but he told me to wear something I could get dirty- so I dutiully grabbed my then "fat" jeans- which has since become my skinny jeans- they weren't excessively tight- but tight enough that sitting down for anything more than 30 minutes in a relaxed (like the car) posittion made me want to stand up. I was so upset I made him stop on the way to dinner at Target so I could buy more pants.

Needless to say when I couldn't find any because they didn't have my size- it was hard to walk into the brazillian all you can eat meat place we went for dinner.

After another stop- we came home and he got me not one- not two but THREE birthday cakes. yeah- I turned thirty and I cried like a little girl whose my little pony wound up in the disposal. it was BAD.

you feel fat- you are miserable- but you are torn because you're lfits go up, you aren't constantly hungry- you have loads of energy and you are a rock star at your gym. And also the fact you have to invest in almost a whole new wardrobe for clothing.

Bulking is mentally extremely difficult- coming home EVERY day knowing you must force yourself to eat. It's easy to sabotage yourself and under eat or short yourself on accident promising yourself you'll make it up.

Let's add in the epic grief people give you when you as a woman who have been busting your butt so hard say you want to GAIN weight- either they freak out and think you're going to turn into Larissa or they think you are just going to be one of those obese Olympic power lifters.

Really I do not think it's a waste of time- I think in 12 weeks if you really bulked down- you could see some good results- that's 3 months- you could put on 5-7 pounds. At the very VERY least- you would learn about REALLY feeding yourself and what you needed.

Also- don't worry about stuffying your face- that's hard. Oreo's and ice cream my friend. oreo's and ice cream.

this was my fairwell bulk "meal" at the end of the bulk- this is 975 calories. And less than a full sunday at Friendly's (PS their hunka chunka pb and fudge is 1770 calories- although I think I' mthe only one I know who can actually stomach the whole thing LOL)
I think there are 4-6 oreo's and then several scoops of mint ice cream.




Ultimately it's what you want to do- it's summer time- it's harder to bulk in the summer- esp for womeinzzez-if you would rather be lean for the summer- then start cutting but if you are on your way- and you are feeling up to-and want MOAR push on and get a little more aggressive and see what happens. the only way you can know is by doing. The steps themselves are very simple- surplus of food + solid progressive lifting program = the gainz.. There is no right answer- sometimes you just gotta dive in and do the things!!!

the mental mind games and non linear aspect is what's difficult.

DavPul

umm.......wut?