12 week bulk results

likitisplit

Thank you all for getting my head in the right place!

Yes. A bulk is what I *want* to do. In November. And if sheer persuasiveness were an issue, I'd start tomorrow, Jo.

My one hesitation is my awareness of the effort it will take - when I look at all the claims on my time and attention, it's hard to see how to fit it in. I've got a few months to figure out the mechanics, though.

My admiration for what you all do has increased tremendously in the past 24 hours. this isn't easy stuff.

MagnumBurrito

Nice job. You ate in the zone. Definitely possible to recomp. The nerd fitness creator did a recomp during his plp workouts.

I guess what I was taught before (low maintenance + lifting) wasn't really a recomp. You actually need to be slightly above maintenance?

Yep. It's the zone where you could gain more muscle but don't because you're not eating enough. It's perfect for ppl who still have some fat to lose but are willing to do it at a slower pace in the beginning. Once you put on some slabs of muscle, the fat will melt away.

If you were me, would you keep doing this, or would you drop 3-5 pounds first?

If I was you, I'd drop the BF% down first. I'm not sure what maintenance is for you, but I'd go under by about 200 calories / day while still doing Convict Conditioning. I'd drop the running, except maybe 15 minutes twice a week if I really had the urge. Get my lean muscle mass in protein / day. Fat would fly off why you preserve all your muscle mass.

likitisplit

Nice job. You ate in the zone. Definitely possible to recomp. The nerd fitness creator did a recomp during his plp workouts.

I guess what I was taught before (low maintenance + lifting) wasn't really a recomp. You actually need to be slightly above maintenance?

Yep. It's the zone where you could gain more muscle but don't because you're not eating enough. It's perfect for ppl who still have some fat to lose but are willing to do it at a slower pace in the beginning. Once you put on some slabs of muscle, the fat will melt away.

If you were me, would you keep doing this, or would you drop 3-5 pounds first?

If I was you, I'd drop the BF% down first. I'm not sure what maintenance is for you, but I'd go under by about 200 calories / day while still doing Convict Conditioning. I'd drop the running, except maybe 15 minutes twice a week if I really had the urge. Get my lean muscle mass in protein / day. Fat would fly off why you preserve all your muscle mass.

Thank you! That's pretty much what I was planning on doing. Except for stopping the running. I mean...it's summer.

MagnumBurrito

Nice job. You ate in the zone. Definitely possible to recomp. The nerd fitness creator did a recomp during his plp workouts.

I guess what I was taught before (low maintenance + lifting) wasn't really a recomp. You actually need to be slightly above maintenance?

Yep. It's the zone where you could gain more muscle but don't because you're not eating enough. It's perfect for ppl who still have some fat to lose but are willing to do it at a slower pace in the beginning. Once you put on some slabs of muscle, the fat will melt away.

If you were me, would you keep doing this, or would you drop 3-5 pounds first?

If I was you, I'd drop the BF% down first. I'm not sure what maintenance is for you, but I'd go under by about 200 calories / day while still doing Convict Conditioning. I'd drop the running, except maybe 15 minutes twice a week if I really had the urge. Get my lean muscle mass in protein / day. Fat would fly off why you preserve all your muscle mass.

Thank you! That's pretty much what I was planning on doing. Except for stopping the running. I mean...it's summer.

Np, good luck

Will_Thrust_For_Candy

Recomp is entirely possible....I have stayed pretty much the same weight (fluctuate about 5lbs) for, gosh, I would say about one year now, but I look quite different. Has it been intentional? Somewhat. Most of the time I think I have been in a deficit, but the scale says otherwise. Meh, I have worked on my relationship with that bish and I'm really more concerned with how I look now.

What exactly are your goals?

If I recall correctly from some of your other posts, you are an avid runner? Is this correct?

I cycle through running and lifting. It is very hard to do both well. When I run (right now I'm half marathon training), I lift 2x/week (I follow Strong Curves). When I lift, it's 4x/week and then I run maybe twice.

If it's your body composition that you are interested in changing....you want to show more muscle, appear more defined, then the strength component is critical. Ensure you are following a solid plan (Convict Conditioning is a great program). Ensure you are using progressive overload. Also, if this was your first go around at seriously devoting some time to strength training, your results are possible.

As DavPul mentioned though, without accurately tracking your intake it will be challenging to change your intake to manipulate your results. I would suggest a bit higher protein while lifting, but that's just me.

Good luck

jofjltncb6

umm.......wut?

^this

likitisplit

Recomp is entirely possible....I have stayed pretty much the same weight (fluctuate about 5lbs) for, gosh, I would say about one year now, but I look quite different. Has it been intentional? Somewhat. Most of the time I think I have been in a deficit, but the scale says otherwise. Meh, I have worked on my relationship with that bish and I'm really more concerned with how I look now.

What exactly are your goals?

If I recall correctly from some of your other posts, you are an avid runner? Is this correct?

I cycle through running and lifting. It is very hard to do both well. When I run (right now I'm half marathon training), I lift 2x/week (I follow Strong Curves). When I lift, it's 4x/week and then I run maybe twice.

If it's your body composition that you are interested in changing....you want to show more muscle, appear more defined, then the strength component is critical. Ensure you are following a solid plan (Convict Conditioning is a great program). Ensure you are using progressive overload. Also, if this was your first go around at seriously devoting some time to strength training, your results are possible.

As DavPul mentioned though, without accurately tracking your intake it will be challenging to change your intake to manipulate your results. I would suggest a bit higher protein while lifting, but that's just me.

Good luck

I'm a beginning runner and really enjoy it. I've got limited time, so I'm not going to be able to go beyond the half-marathon distance until the kids are older. I will be running less in the winter because of the dark, etc, so it makes more sense to bulk then.

I've been strength training on and off for maybe the last 15 years. I did NROL4W last year, but gave up during the training for my first half marathon (and then got sick after the race and lost 4 pounds of lean mass). I've never had great results from strength training. I mean, I become slightly stronger and slightly more defined, but not a lot more than I've done during this "recomp."

Even if I end up doing a bulk this just once, I want to see how much I can accomplish by three-four months of focused effort.

So, yes, I want the strength and definition. But, to get a little touchy-feely, my real goal is to uncover my capacity.

JoRocka

holy hell- I am not allowed to post at night with no food- that's worse than no coffee.

I can't.

I failed at the internet.

sorry.

AliceDark

I've been strength training on and off for maybe the last 15 years. I did NROL4W last year, but gave up during the training for my first half marathon (and then got sick after the race and lost 4 pounds of lean mass). I've never had great results from strength training. I mean, I become slightly stronger and slightly more defined, but not a lot more than I've done during this "recomp."

Even if I end up doing a bulk this just once, I want to see how much I can accomplish by three-four months of focused effort.

So, yes, I want the strength and definition. But, to get a little touchy-feely, my real goal is to uncover my capacity.

I was in the same boat before I started bulking this year. I love lifting, but I'd been spinning my wheels for a couple of years because I was still eating at a crazy deficit. I had no idea how much my lifts were going to improve, and how quickly, just by adding extra food.

The one thing I wish I had done differently was to take more time to stabilize before I started trying to bulk. It literally took me almost two months to get my intake figured out and to get my weight stabilized, so while I intended to start in December, I didn't really start until around mid-January. (I'm a "leap and the net will appear" kind of girl, so I was happy just to jump in with both feet, but in retrospect it was really inefficient to do it that way).

If you know you want to bulk in November, I'd take the time until then to get your logging dialed in and try to lose maybe 3-5 pounds before then. It sounds like you found your maintenence range, so cutting a small amount from that shouldn't be that bad. I don't weigh my food either, btw. It works for me to go more slowly and not trigger my stupid food issues, but if I really wanted to maximize my gains (or losses) in the shortest amount of time, I might consider it.

DavPul

holy hell- I am not allowed to post at night with no food- that's worse than no coffee.

I can't.

I failed at the internet.

sorry.

likitisplit

holy hell- I am not allowed to post at night with no food- that's worse than no coffee.

I can't.

I failed at the internet.

sorry.

I LOVED your post though. Totally what I needed to hear. Next time just PM me?

likitisplit

I've been strength training on and off for maybe the last 15 years. I did NROL4W last year, but gave up during the training for my first half marathon (and then got sick after the race and lost 4 pounds of lean mass). I've never had great results from strength training. I mean, I become slightly stronger and slightly more defined, but not a lot more than I've done during this "recomp."

Even if I end up doing a bulk this just once, I want to see how much I can accomplish by three-four months of focused effort.

So, yes, I want the strength and definition. But, to get a little touchy-feely, my real goal is to uncover my capacity.

I was in the same boat before I started bulking this year. I love lifting, but I'd been spinning my wheels for a couple of years because I was still eating at a crazy deficit. I had no idea how much my lifts were going to improve, and how quickly, just by adding extra food.

The one thing I wish I had done differently was to take more time to stabilize before I started trying to bulk. It literally took me almost two months to get my intake figured out and to get my weight stabilized, so while I intended to start in December, I didn't really start until around mid-January. (I'm a "leap and the net will appear" kind of girl, so I was happy just to jump in with both feet, but in retrospect it was really inefficient to do it that way).

If you know you want to bulk in November, I'd take the time until then to get your logging dialed in and try to lose maybe 3-5 pounds before then. It sounds like you found your maintenence range, so cutting a small amount from that shouldn't be that bad. I don't weigh my food either, btw. It works for me to go more slowly and not trigger my stupid food issues, but if I really wanted to maximize my gains (or losses) in the shortest amount of time, I might consider it.

Thanks for that. I was doing this as kind of a pilot. I think I'm going to need to weigh my food, otherwise I'm just not going to be able to eat that much.

waldo56

My best guess at how you missed the numbers, thinking you were bulking but instead recomping...

You say calories+exercise.

The +exercise is important. How are you estimating strength training calories?

If you are using MFP's strength training or weight lifting entry (I forget what it is called), that's probably where most of the error is coming from. If you are actually trying when lifting, the high effort calisthenics or circuit training entries are the most realistic. The difference is so great between them that it could easily wipe out a small-moderate surplus.

likitisplit

My best guess at how you missed the numbers, thinking you were bulking but instead recomping...

You say calories+exercise.

The +exercise is important. How are you estimating strength training calories?

If you are using MFP's strength training or weight lifting entry (I forget what it is called), that's probably where most of the error is coming from. If you are actually trying when lifting, the high effort calisthenics or circuit training entries are the most realistic. The difference is so great between them that it could easily wipe out a small-moderate surplus.

Damn. This is going to sound totally stupid

When I was on a deficit and lifting weight, I didn't add in weight lifting unless I was hungry. I tried doing the same thing with Convict Conditioning when I was recomping (let's call it what it was) and ended up being hungry - which made no sense on a "bulk". So I added in strength training and stretching calories. Which probably put me at maintenance.

Never mind me. I'll just sit in this dark corner until I gain some common sense. Sigh.

Thank you for helping me to make sense of this.

vms4evr

You can't really figure out your maintenance calorie requirements from a hydrostatic test. Or any body fat testing method. Because the amount required to maintain depends almost entirely on what you do all day/week/month. I mean, they can come up with a theory on how much you'd need if you were in a coma, but outside of that real world results will take precedent. And the variance can be huge. For me there can be a 1000 calorie difference between an active work day or a lay around and watch football day. That's *before* any exercise gets figured in.

This is the problem I have now trying to do a bulk. I've had to mess with what my daily calorie intake should be. Doing simple TDEE math or the MFP solution doesn't work. My calorie use changing daily by a fair bit. Even though I have a sedentary job. I rarely sit still at work or at home. I track my food on MFP. Done starting measurements. I had set to bulk .5/lb/wk. Not working. Bumped it to 1lb/wk and it appears I'm getting warmer. Wearing a HRM daily seems to be one way to find my natural number. I'm testing that idea now.

Good luck find that magic number to adjust against.

likitisplit

You can't really figure out your maintenance calorie requirements from a hydrostatic test. Or any body fat testing method. Because the amount required to maintain depends almost entirely on what you do all day/week/month. I mean, they can come up with a theory on how much you'd need if you were in a coma, but outside of that real world results will take precedent. And the variance can be huge. For me there can be a 1000 calorie difference between an active work day or a lay around and watch football day. That's *before* any exercise gets figured in.

This is the problem I have now trying to do a bulk. I've had to mess with what my daily calorie intake should be. Doing simple TDEE math or the MFP solution doesn't work. My calorie use changing daily by a fair bit. Even though I have a sedentary job. I rarely sit still at work or at home. I track my food on MFP. Done starting measurements. I had set to bulk .5/lb/wk. Not working. Bumped it to 1lb/wk and it appears I'm getting warmer. Wearing a HRM daily seems to be one way to find my natural number. I'm testing that idea now.

Good luck find that magic number to adjust against.

No kidding. I was eating 2050 at maintenance. Bumped that up by 250 calories and lost weight for a week. Bumped that up by another 100 calories and started to gain (more or less). I believe in calories in/calories out, but a lot of time the formula occurs inside a black box with a variety of factors that jiggle the calories out end of the equation.

JoRocka

My best guess at how you missed the numbers, thinking you were bulking but instead recomping...

You say calories+exercise.

The +exercise is important. How are you estimating strength training calories?

If you are using MFP's strength training or weight lifting entry (I forget what it is called), that's probably where most of the error is coming from. If you are actually trying when lifting, the high effort calisthenics or circuit training entries are the most realistic. The difference is so great between them that it could easily wipe out a small-moderate surplus.

Damn. This is going to sound totally stupid

When I was on a deficit and lifting weight, I didn't add in weight lifting unless I was hungry. I tried doing the same thing with Convict Conditioning when I was recomping (let's call it what it was) and ended up being hungry - which made no sense on a "bulk". So I added in strength training and stretching calories. Which probably put me at maintenance.

Never mind me. I'll just sit in this dark corner until I gain some common sense. Sigh.

Thank you for helping me to make sense of this.

it's a learning experience and more often than not- women get the first one wrong.

Unfortunately we have SO much stigma on gaining weight it's easy to do- and it's easy to not push and it's easy to sabotage yourself.

it's very much a game of trial and error- there is no failed experiment- only more data. So you learned a lot. That's a valuable lesson.

And that's totally good!

(also listen to Waldo- he knows all the things- well- almost all the things and if he doesn't know he has a damn good idea)

DavPul

You can't really figure out your maintenance calorie requirements from a hydrostatic test. Or any body fat testing method. Because the amount required to maintain depends almost entirely on what you do all day/week/month. I mean, they can come up with a theory on how much you'd need if you were in a coma, but outside of that real world results will take precedent. And the variance can be huge. For me there can be a 1000 calorie difference between an active work day or a lay around and watch football day. That's *before* any exercise gets figured in.

This is the problem I have now trying to do a bulk. I've had to mess with what my daily calorie intake should be. Doing simple TDEE math or the MFP solution doesn't work. My calorie use changing daily by a fair bit. Even though I have a sedentary job. I rarely sit still at work or at home. I track my food on MFP. Done starting measurements. I had set to bulk .5/lb/wk. Not working. Bumped it to 1lb/wk and it appears I'm getting warmer. Wearing a HRM daily seems to be one way to find my natural number. I'm testing that idea now.

Good luck find that magic number to adjust against.

Wearing an hrm around us going to give you a warped number as that's not the type of use they accurately measure. Buy a bodymedia device. It will make hitting your numbers insanely easy.

likitisplit

I was kind of hoping this post would die and I could slink off, but thanks for the advice, Davpul!

jofjltncb6

Wearing an hrm around us going to give you a warped number as that's not the type of use they accurately measure. Buy a bodymedia device. It will make hitting your numbers insanely easy.

Spoken like a shill for Big Bodymedia.


HOW MUCH ARE THEY PAYING YOU?!??


#teamfitbit4lyfe