Working smarter not harder?

JoRocka

hours of cardio and not effective workouts

What do you consider a "not effective workout"? And by whose standards?

For most people looking to "get into shape", intensity is more important than duration (to a certain degree).
Given you were quoting JoRocka, I'm going to guess she picked ineffective as having one or more of the following:
not challenging, unfocused, or not supporting your goals, and it would be by the standards of the individual. What's effective for one may be ineffective for another.

There are some days you get points for just making it to the gym. But not many. You get points for working hard.

Duration is key for anyone training for endurance. I don't think anyone will argue that point. But I also think that that is not a core audience for this site.

Solid- totally - and very effectively explained that.

Thank you. Totally nailed it.

I would also say consistency is a key for anyone training or trying to make a substantial shift in their appearance- in which case "harder" isn't as important because if you go hard or go home- often times you wind up going home and can't sustain that workout intensity for the years it will require for said change to happen.

DavPul

isn't the whole point of specialized lifting programs (for example) to "work smarter" and "not harder"? to maximize the benefits for a given amount of time/effort.

this applies to any physical or athletic endeavor. training for a race, practicing for sports, lifting for mass vs. strength (depending on your goals), etc. if you're serious about your training, you're always working smarter, not harder.

i couldn't disagree more. whenever i see someone on a specialized program, they are working harder. MUCH harder. doesn't matter if they are gearing up to set a PR in a 10k or if they are doing Smolovs for squats, they are working hard hard hard. even athletes in a similar field of say, track and field will have specialized programs that make a high jumper's program different from a shot putter's program, but i guarantee you that both are working hard as hell.

it's really just a semantics issue. because they have a specific goal, they'll go hard in one area but slack in a less important area. that's being smart. but to imply that improving isn't about working harder is just plain false.

erickirb

For me I have friends that do bro splits and don't get nearly the results in 1.5 hours/day 6 days/week that they could be getting in a 3 day/week full body workout. and by results I mean getting stronger, since they are dieting they are not going to put on size under either type of workout. So 3hours/week vs. 9 hours.

I use to workout more like that in Uni and find working out less I am getting better results, that probably also has to do with how important and underrated recovery is.

DavPul

hours of cardio and not effective workouts

What do you consider a "not effective workout"? And by whose standards?

weirdly, she answered those two questions....right in the other half of the quote that you just happened to omit.

Fat2FitMyDrive

I guess maybe I have a skewed vision of this, but when it comes to excersize in general I really don't feel this applies. How can one improve if you don't continue to work harder. How do you get stronger? How do you beat a plateau? The idea is not to run the most efficient mile, but to run the fastest and to some people that may not be pretty or efficient... LOL! I do believe in correct form and doing the correct work for your ultimate goal, so I guess in a way that can be considered working smarter not harder. Hard work has provided me with nothing, but results... period!

If your goal is to run the fastest mile would you go running 3x a day? If your goal was to run a marathon would you go run 26 miles every day? That's part of working smarter. You train smart and you avoid injury. You train smart and you get to that point faster. Training smart also means putting the effort in. Not cheating reps is working smarter and harder. Running hills and running outside is working smarter and harder (vs running on a treadmill).

This I totally agree with in every aspect. Like I said doing the correct work for your ultimate goal is working smarter vs. coming and running 10 miles a day at a monster pace when you want to build muscle wouldn't be the smart way to train for that particular goal. So I can see where this all goes hand in hand.

BrainyBurro

isn't the whole point of specialized lifting programs (for example) to "work smarter" and "not harder"? to maximize the benefits for a given amount of time/effort.

this applies to any physical or athletic endeavor. training for a race, practicing for sports, lifting for mass vs. strength (depending on your goals), etc. if you're serious about your training, you're always working smarter, not harder.

i couldn't disagree more. whenever i see someone on a specialized program, they are working harder. MUCH harder. doesn't matter if they are gearing up to set a PR in a 10k or if they are doing Smolovs for squats, they are working hard hard hard. even athletes in a similar field of say, track and field will have specialized programs that make a high jumper's program different from a shot putter's program, but i guarantee you that both are working hard as hell.

it's really just a semantics issue. because they have a specific goal, they'll go hard in one area but slack in a less important area. that's being smart. but to imply that improving isn't about working harder is just plain false.

"smarter vs. harder" to me means not spinning your wheels doing things with minimal benefit when other things will work better.

i think you're using a more literal definition of "harder", as in "throwing around 350lbs on the bar is hard work".

so it is a semantics issue. we are using the term differently.

westendcurls

I think it would defiantly be do able if proper form was the rule rather than the exception. unfortunately I see people constantly letting their form get sloppy in favor of going harder or seemingly unawear how poor their form is.

Platform_Heels

Why can't one workout smart AND hard? Why does it have to be an either or or versus?

jennk5309

Would HIIT training be an example of smarter not harder? I mean, it IS hard IMO, but it's faster and more efficient than spending an hour on a treadmill like a rat. Far less boring.....

When I was doing it (not now cause I'm pregnant and not sure it's safe), I found that alternating longer, less intense cardio with HIIT cardio sessions worked better than all HIIT. I think it's too taxing if you do it all the time to your hormones (epinephrine, cortisol, etc., plus the lactic acid is probably bad if you don't take resting periods).

Forgive me if I sound like an ignoramus, I'm not a personal trainer or expert! Just going by what has worked for me in the past and stuff I've read.

rybo

These go hand in hand when it comes to training. Having the best laid program is useless if you aren't working hard when following it. You can bust your *kitten* all you want but you will spin your wheels and not progress if you aren't following a smart program.

WendyTerry420

hours of cardio and not effective workouts

What do you consider a "not effective workout"? And by whose standards?

weirdly, she answered those two questions....right in the other half of the quote that you just happened to omit.

That is weird. It's never happened on MFP before...

JoRocka

hours of cardio and not effective workouts

What do you consider a "not effective workout"? And by whose standards?

weirdly, she answered those two questions....right in the other half of the quote that you just happened to omit.

reading- it's so hard these days.

Why can't one workout smart AND hard? Why does it have to be an either or or versus?

not sure where anyone implied one couldn't.

Often times people think those are the only two options- I think part of the point of the question is to challenge people to think about the way they approach training.

Are they using a structure systematic 'smart' approach? Or they just coming in and doing whatever the wind blows at them?
Are they actually training hard? Or are they training harder with no goal in mind?

WendyTerry420

Why can't one workout smart AND hard? Why does it have to be an either or or versus?

It's possible to work hard and not get the results you want.

MireyGal76

I prefer to just "wing it" and see what happens.

You know... just throw a whole pile of spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks.

Seems to be working so far. :laugh:

Yay, thanks for not letting that gem die.

I'm not quite sure I am catching your meaning.

I posted this half joking, but in a way I mean it too.
When I started out wanting to lose weight and look better, I didn't have a hot clue. I knew nothing about calorie counting, fitness, weight lifting, running. I was active and not much overweight, but didn't have any real "fitness smarts".

if I had waited until I was fit smart before I started, I would not be here, because personally, I never feel like I know all the answers. (In fact, now that I know more, I realize I know less than I thought I did).

I put on my workout gear and jumped in. I joined this site and tried to figure out the whole calorie counting thing. I have been learning along the way.

I went to boxing class, with no knowledge, and busted my *kitten*, learning along the way.

I have now started adding in weights... learning as I go.

Could I be doing things smarter? Yeah, probably. I could spend a lot of time researching and learning and tailoring a plan... and be paralyzed because I was afraid I was doing it wrong.

Or, I can start with baby steps, and learn as I go... getting smarter along the way.


I work hard.... and I'm getting smarter... fine tuning, adjusting, evolving as I go. It's a never ending process.

DavPul

isn't the whole point of specialized lifting programs (for example) to "work smarter" and "not harder"? to maximize the benefits for a given amount of time/effort.

this applies to any physical or athletic endeavor. training for a race, practicing for sports, lifting for mass vs. strength (depending on your goals), etc. if you're serious about your training, you're always working smarter, not harder.

i couldn't disagree more. whenever i see someone on a specialized program, they are working harder. MUCH harder. doesn't matter if they are gearing up to set a PR in a 10k or if they are doing Smolovs for squats, they are working hard hard hard. even athletes in a similar field of say, track and field will have specialized programs that make a high jumper's program different from a shot putter's program, but i guarantee you that both are working hard as hell.

it's really just a semantics issue. because they have a specific goal, they'll go hard in one area but slack in a less important area. that's being smart. but to imply that improving isn't about working harder is just plain false.

"smarter vs. harder" to me means not spinning your wheels doing things with minimal benefit when other things will work better.

i think you're using a more literal definition of "harder", as in "throwing around 350lbs on the bar is hard work".

so it is a semantics issue. we are using the term differently.

i agree about it being semantics.

it's just that i don't like it when people (not you) get the idea that hard work isn't required. obv it's contingent on what type of results people expect, but many times they are looking at photos of a fitness model that is doing the "7 Minute Scientific Workout" or a team of accomplished trainers and athletes that were hired to perform in a 25 min fitness DVD. So people end up thinking "oh, if I just did it better, i could look like them by doing 30DS/T25" when the fact is the people that they are looking at put in hours upon hours of hard work in the gym and even more hours counting every calorie that crossed their lips.

pretty much every late night infomercial peddling fitness garbage is selling people the dream of "working smarter, not harder". you can get abs while watching TV!!

KseRz

Allow me to translate for DavPul....

What hes trying to say is that working smarter is great but.....

rogerOb1

Why can't one workout smart AND hard? Why does it have to be an either or or versus?

I dont think its supposed to be purely a case of one versus the other. Its just putting the emphasis on making sure the training is designed to efficiently and effectively reach your goals. Like someone said, you dont want to work harder and end up just spinning your wheels - you want to maximise the output from your efforts.

whitebalance

I prefer to just "wing it" and see what happens.

You know... just throw a whole pile of spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks.

Seems to be working so far. :laugh:

Yay, thanks for not letting that gem die.

I'm not quite sure I am catching your meaning.

I posted this half joking, but in a way I mean it too.
When I started out wanting to lose weight and look better, I didn't have a hot clue. I knew nothing about calorie counting, fitness, weight lifting, running. I was active and not much overweight, but didn't have any real "fitness smarts".

if I had waited until I was fit smart before I started, I would not be here, because personally, I never feel like I know all the answers. (In fact, now that I know more, I realize I know less than I thought I did).

I put on my workout gear and jumped in. I joined this site and tried to figure out the whole calorie counting thing. I have been learning along the way.

I went to boxing class, with no knowledge, and busted my *kitten*, learning along the way.

I have now started adding in weights... learning as I go.

Could I be doing things smarter? Yeah, probably. I could spend a lot of time researching and learning and tailoring a plan... and be paralyzed because I was afraid I was doing it wrong.

Or, I can start with baby steps, and learn as I go... getting smarter along the way.


I work hard.... and I'm getting smarter... fine tuning, adjusting, evolving as I go. It's a never ending process.

This... All of this. This is how you're so badass, Mireygal. :drinker:

Re the original post, I think my earlier attempt at strength training qualified as "harder, not smarter." I overtrained... I increased my volume and tonnage too much, too fast... I took a program made for teenaged male athletes and said, Well, I'll just add a little bit here, and here, and here. I sacrificed form, wore myself out, and got a (thankfully mild) lower back injury to show for it. Not very smart. Once I could lift again and mostly got over my fear of it, I settled into a beginner program - and I've had more visible results. For me, "smarter, not harder" includes patience and paying close attention to cues from my body.

But like Mireygal says above, I take up what seems interesting, bust my *kitten* on it, and learn as I go... and I do my best to have fun in the process. That may not be the most efficient way to get results, but it does keep me coming back for more. That's my one overarching goal: MOAR!!!

ninerbuff

Personally, I don't think many will get what they want out of their program if they don't work hard. However, there is a difference in "intense" hard work and "duration" hard work.
What some powerlifter calls "hard" and what a marathoner calls "hard" is as DavPul stated as semantics. And I totally agree with him about how late night programs try to sell people on ideas of training "smarter" to get abs. Please.
Anyway, it's interesting reading some of the feedback.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

vmclach

hours of cardio and not effective workouts

What do you consider a "not effective workout"? And by whose standards?

they did hours of cardio and worked hard to lose weight but didn't think about the muscle and it's effect on physique.

My friend who does spin and zumba and complains about her lower back fat and love handles is trying to lose weight. She doesn't look fit. She is very soft and hardly any appreciable muscle. The body she wants in her mind will maybe never come to realization if she keeps the routine she has at this time.

Maybe she really enjoys Zumba and spin classes? Maybe she takes the class because it's fun not to lose weight? Idk. I'm
A runner. I'm 5'8" 130 pounds, and I'll be the first to admit, I wish my body looked a little different, but I'm not willing to drastically decrease my running or change my diet. I frequently like to complain to people that I wish I had a 6 pack.. Do I know how to get those results? Yes. Am I willing to make the changes? No.

Lol kinda like the whole "train smarter not harder". I get a lot of enjoyment out of spur of the moment marathons or doing back to back workouts. Do I know it's ineffective? Yes. But I do it because it's fun to
Push the limits or maybe I'm just a crazy person who can't follow a plan! who knows :P