OA but not religious?

kaaaaylee

Hey everyone,
After some serious soul searching, and courage seeking, I decided I really need help with a lot of the things that seem to relate to a real problem with food. I won't go too into details, but food and I have a complex psychological relationship.

I was thinking of going to an Overeaters Anonymous meeting, but I have some concerns. I don't believe in God, so I'm just wondering if this can be beneficial without the religious tones it seems to have based on the website.

Could anyone who's been let me know?

Thanks.

tiptoethruthetulips

This is a copy and paste from a poster on another forum who responded to a similar question:

http://www.calorieking.com.au/community/forums/posts.php?forum_id=1&thread_id=148468

"Yes i was an OA member at one stage. It is a 12 step program, and like any of those, it follows the same patterns (eg AA, Narcotics Anonymous etc).

It is about following the 12 steps and "the book". It is quite structured and of course the group you join will have their own interpretations of the "rules" or the program. It is not necessarily religious but it does utilise the concept of a higher power - "let go and let God" was a key concept. However, whatever you consider to be god (or your Higher Power) is the key. Fundamentally it is a fellowship and people who know exactly what you are on about work together to "let go". In this sense, a calorie counting program or another kind of food restriction program for example, where you are constantly monitoring food and eating, would not easily be able to co-exist with OA, at least not from my persepctive. If anything it is more like mindfulness and becoming aware of the triggers for why you eat - hence the letting go.

One of the key factors in succeeding in a 12 step program is the support of a sponsor. I was far too young and inexperienced to be able to succeed in such a program when I first heard of them, because I am not particularly good at establishing interpersonal relationships. I am sure there are many people who also feel this way who learn how to accept others' support and who are successful.

Unlike alcohol or narcotics, it is not possible to avoid food altogether. Those people can become sober by avoiding their triggers totally. (It's not necessarily easier!) Food and eating addicts still have to eat. I don't think the program was at all about banning certain foods to be sober, but more about how to avoid /manage/minimise those things that trigger you - and this may be complete abstinence from certain foods if that is what it takes for you. Certainly the language was all about abstinence but this did not mean foods were banned, although discussion about specific trigger foods was.

Would I try OA again? Maybe. It is a time committment and it does require a willingness to share myself - to really open my life and admit that I am completly powerless over my addiction. I think I can do this via the anonymity of the internet quite easily - but I would find this (or more likely, the ability to accept support in trying to overcome it) much more difficult to do with "real" people. Yes, I do keep people at arms' lengths and that is probably why I eat. Will OA suit you? Who knows - go along and try. It is not likely to cost you much, and you commit to whatever you are capable of. You won't be whisked away to join some secret cult, and you might find that the "religious" aspect is nothing more than a humanist care for one's fellow man.

However, you might find it difficult to calorie count at this time, as it is most definitely not about losing weight, it is about giving up your addiction to and the control of food and eating."

tequila5000

I would encourage you to give it a try. YOu may or may not like it, but I suppose you won't know unless you attend and try it. I have attended OA meetings in the past, going as a support with a family member. The group was very welcoming to me when I said, "I am here to support the person sitting next to me".

I am not a religious person so I can see why a person might struggle with that aspect of it. However, when I visited the group, it never was a big problem for me, and as a matter of fact, I would leave feeling a lot better about things. The support, warmth, fellowship, and acceptance is a very positive force!

ChaplainHeavin

I was thinking of going to an Overeaters Anonymous meeting, but I have some concerns. I don't believe in God, so I'm just wondering if this can be beneficial without the religious tones it seems to have based on the website.

Thanks.

I want to be cautious here because I sense I’m walking on thin ice whenever any issue regarding a religious institution or belief is brought up in a post. So, let me address it this way:

First, Overeaters Anonymous claims NOT to be a religious organization. In their own words they state: “OA is not a religious society, since it requires no definite religious belief as a condition of membership. OA has among its membership people of many religious faiths as well as atheists and agnostics.”

However, the organization’s base foundation is in the belief in God or a Creator and is a 12 Step Program. In my opinion, and this is just my opinion, if God doesn’t exist then the very foundation and premise of the group is faulty.

I am not saying it can’t work if you take God out of the picture, the OA themselves claim to have agnostics and atheists who partake of the meetings, it’s just it seems to me (again, just my opinion) that it would be difficult to complete so many of the 12 Steps if you dismiss the reasoning that a God or Higher Power exists. Below are the OA steps they use so that you can understand what I’m talking about. I do hope you can find the right group to join. It takes a very brave person to be willing to admit a problem and to do something about it.

The Twelve Steps of Overeaters Anonymous
1. We admitted we were powerless over food — that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps, we tried to carry this message to compulsive overeaters and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

aly_mc

This comes right on the heels of my last night's google searches! I was just thinking about joining OA to figure some stuff out about my disordered eating. It's hard when-you need food to live, but you have an unhealthy relationship with it. But, then again, I'm not religious. Would I find support? I think I am going to give it a try because I don't have much to lose by not going.

I have a complicated relationship with food as well, and I find that as I'm moving through my journey, I find myself needing some kind of help I don't necessarily get from counting cals (points in my case).

So, I'm going to give it a shot.

kaaaaylee

This comes right on the heels of my last night's google searches! I was just thinking about joining OA to figure some stuff out about my disordered eating. It's hard when-you need food to live, but you have an unhealthy relationship with it. But, then again, I'm not religious. Would I find support? I think I am going to give it a try because I don't have much to lose by not going.

I have a complicated relationship with food as well, and I find that as I'm moving through my journey, I find myself needing some kind of help I don't necessarily get from counting cals (points in my case).

So, I'm going to give it a shot.

I was thinking I might as well go once and see, right? When are you planning on going? I was thinking of maybe heading out to a meeting I found tomorrow. Plus side for me- it's not held in a church.

usmcmp

This is more for binge eaters, but it could help others learn a healthier relationship with food and their body.
http://www.niashanks.com/2013/09/20-tips-binge-eating/

emdeesea

I went to one meeting of OA and was completely creeped out by it. Way too culty and touchy-feely for me.

But maybe it's just the area I live in. But yeah, I don't want to hold hands at the end of any meeting and bow my head. No.

Lleldiranne

My understanding (having never been to any 12-step program meetings) is that it is simply the acknowledgement of a higher power. That may mean God, but it could also simply mean the Universe, or something else. You can fit that "higher power" to your beliefs in most cases.

Either way, it doesn't hurt to give it a shot. You're not signing a contract or anything that would be a commitment to keep going if it's not a good fit. You'll never know for sure until you try.

(In addition, it may be helpful to seek out a counselor who works with people recovering from EDs, if you aren't already.) Best of luck!

Amberlynnek

http://www.oa.org/membersgroups/find-a-meeting/

Here you can select a meeting based on what you need and what you're looking for. You can find an in-person, telephone or online and also a meeting without the religious underlying. I personally went the route of a therapist focused in EDs that included binge eating and recommended by my doc. However, it depends on your financial status and insurance but I found it to be super helpful just to talk and be able to identify what is driving my issues.

vjohn04

I am a member of another 12 step group, and I had similar concerns.

the program is spiritual, but not religious.

A lot of people use the 'group' as their higher power until they can come to terms with how they view their higher power.

The neat thing about step 2 and 3 is that you came to believe in a higher power, and then made a decision to turn your will over to a higher power.

These are hard steps for many people and they simply take time.

Go to a meeting or 6... check it out. There's no commitment needed if you find the program isn't right for you. Until then, you'll always wonder about it.

BJS72

I am also not a believer in so, called God. The part that I like that is posted in this thread by others that I like is.. "The Higher Power" part. I always believed in MYSELF as the Higher Power. I am not at ALL trying to turn this thread into a religious deal. I have always found that I CAN do ANYTHING if I put my mind and my heart into it 100%. So, maybe you can think of the whole situation this way..because IMO everyone is their OWN 'Higher Power" and there is NOTHING Higher than YOU. IF your mind and heart isn't in it then your not in it. If a person is a believer in a God..they can pray all they want but, if their heart and mind is not in whatever they are trying to accomplish it wont work. So, believe in YOURSELF!! I hope this makes sense and helps someone.

delicious_cocktail

Religion and God are wholly severable.
Religion is a system of mankind. God is transcendental.
Religion is an organized effort of man. Religion is someone else's God.

God does not depend on man.

When you approach OA, they will not try to give you religion - stated differently, "their" God.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

usmcmp

Religion and God are wholly severable.
Religion is a system of mankind. God is transcendental.
Religion is an organized effort of man. Religion is someone else's God.

God does not depend on man.

When you approach OA, they will not try to give you religion - stated differently, "their" God.

She didn't say she wasn't religious. She said she didn't believe in a god or a higher power, which would make their 12 steps nearly impossible.

OP: I think somewhere along the way to recovery you will discover you are stronger than you think. For years I sort of let myself be the victim of binge eating/emotional eating. It wasn't enough to just tell myself to knock it off, I really had to believe that I was strong enough to do it. Every victory you have reinforces how strong you really are. You don't have to submit to a higher power asking them to take it all away, you can stand up and tell yourself that YOU are now in control.

CJisinShape

My thought about your dilemma is that you haven't been able to do it yourself, so it may be time to consider that there is a God, and He can help. There are so many stories out there of people coming to the end of their own abilities and finding that God can fix what we cannot. God healed my gallbladder when 5 doctors said it would have to be removed, and also he healed some personal, emotional hurts I'd dealt with for 20+ years. I thought I'd always have that scar, but suddenly, it was gone. God sent his son Jesus to die for us so that we can be reconciled to God. Jesus said, there is no greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

usmcmp

My thought about your dilemma is that you haven't been able to do it yourself, so it may be time to consider that there is a God, and He can help. There are so many stories out there of people coming to the end of their own abilities and finding that God can fix what we cannot. God healed my gallbladder when 5 doctors said it would have to be removed, and also he healed some personal, emotional hurts I'd dealt with for 20+ years. I thought I'd always have that scar, but suddenly, it was gone. God sent his son Jesus to die for us so that we can be reconciled to God. Jesus said, there is no greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

She didn't ask for people to come and try to make her believe. I have managed to fix everything quite well on my own without a higher power. That's great if a higher power is a comforting idea to you, but many of us don't need that.

liekewheeless

Anything can be your higher power. You can go in without one and just get a feel for the group before you decide if it is for you. Not every group is going to be the same. You may want to try a couple different ones if the first one doesn't click.

Nothing ventured nothing gained right?

kaaaaylee

Thank you to everyone, especially how many people understood my concerns exactly. I'm going to check it out because there's no harm and it could be something I feel that I really enjoy.

Thanks also for not letting this be one of those threads with drama and people making fun.

weblur

I am a member of another 12 step group, and I had similar concerns.

the program is spiritual, but not religious.

A lot of people use the 'group' as their higher power until they can come to terms with how they view their higher power.

The neat thing about step 2 and 3 is that you came to believe in a higher power, and then made a decision to turn your will over to a higher power.

These are hard steps for many people and they simply take time.

Go to a meeting or 6... check it out. There's no commitment needed if you find the program isn't right for you. Until then, you'll always wonder about it.

^ I agree with this. I haven't been to an OA meeting in a while but it did help me see a lot of my food issues. A lot of groups and areas take on their own, um, personality which is why I don't go to my local meetings any more. That said, being in another 12-step fellowship, I've met plenty of atheists and agnostics who are still able to get a lot out of the program of recovery.

I wish you all the best!

Edit to add: I type too slowly!

MBrothers22

My understanding (having never been to any 12-step program meetings) is that it is simply the acknowledgement of a higher power. That may mean God, but it could also simply mean the Universe, or something else. You can fit that "higher power" to your beliefs in most cases.

Either way, it doesn't hurt to give it a shot. You're not signing a contract or anything that would be a commitment to keep going if it's not a good fit. You'll never know for sure until you try.

(In addition, it may be helpful to seek out a counselor who works with people recovering from EDs, if you aren't already.) Best of luck!

Atheists don't believe in a higher power of any kind. That's what atheist means. So to tell them to just fit it in as something else doesn't help at all.

OP: Being an agnostic atheist myself, it doesn't seem like it would be much of help to be honest. While they claim to not be a religious organization, it's pretty clear that they are with all the pointing to a god.
I'm not saying don't go, just don't be surprised if it's completely useless to you.

delicious_cocktail

Religion and God are wholly severable.
Religion is a system of mankind. God is transcendental.
Religion is an organized effort of man. Religion is someone else's God.

God does not depend on man.

When you approach OA, they will not try to give you religion - stated differently, "their" God.

She didn't say she wasn't religious. She said she didn't believe in a god or a higher power, which would make their 12 steps nearly impossible.

I was replying to/expounding upon this comment upthread:

I want to be cautious here because I sense I’m walking on thin ice whenever any issue regarding a religious institution or belief is brought up in a post. So, let me address it this way:

First, Overeaters Anonymous claims NOT to be a religious organization. In their own words they state: “OA is not a religious society, since it requires no definite religious belief as a condition of membership. OA has among its membership people of many religious faiths as well as atheists and agnostics.”

Shame on me for not quoting.

Not believing in a higher power is not a barrier. A refusal to consider the notion, is.

MBrothers22

My thought about your dilemma is that you haven't been able to do it yourself, so it may be time to consider that there is a God, and He can help. There are so many stories out there of people coming to the end of their own abilities and finding that God can fix what we cannot. God healed my gallbladder when 5 doctors said it would have to be removed, and also he healed some personal, emotional hurts I'd dealt with for 20+ years. I thought I'd always have that scar, but suddenly, it was gone. God sent his son Jesus to die for us so that we can be reconciled to God. Jesus said, there is no greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Every single person who doesn't believe in god HAS considered the idea of a god. Your attempt at being condescending is appalling.

delicious_cocktail

My thought about your dilemma is that you haven't been able to do it yourself, so it may be time to consider that there is a God, and He can help. There are so many stories out there of people coming to the end of their own abilities and finding that God can fix what we cannot. God healed my gallbladder when 5 doctors said it would have to be removed, and also he healed some personal, emotional hurts I'd dealt with for 20+ years. I thought I'd always have that scar, but suddenly, it was gone. God sent his son Jesus to die for us so that we can be reconciled to God. Jesus said, there is no greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Every single person who doesn't believe in god HAS considered the idea of a god. Your attempt at being condescending is appalling.

How about buddhism, which has faith and spirituality yet no god at all?

A higher power doesn't need to be a guy on a cloud handing out favors or punishments. It doesn't need to be a guy on a cloud at all. Or a guy. Or an anything.

The functional notion of 'higher power' in this context is intended to be infinitely flexible (according to documentary evidence of the people who created the notion). The 12 steps were created in a time in American history where monotheistic Christianity was the order of the day. The program stemmed from the principals of the Oxford Groups which were quite specifically Christian. Funnily enough, AA broke away from that. They did their best, despite the limitations of their 1930s cultuer and lexicon, to express the higher power as an infinitely accessible, infinitely variable and highly personal concept.

Unfortunately in their use of language, they were far from perfect seperating the concept of a higher power from the judeochristian external, paternal, omnipotent male archetype.

Long story short, do not needlessly adopt the limitations and ignorance of others.

forkofpower

I'm an atheist -- not only non-religious, but non-spiritual. I don't believe in a spiritual energy of the universe, higher powers, souls, etc., so subbing 'a higher power' in for 'god' wouldn't work for me.

Looking at the 12 steps of the OA program, I'm not sure how you could complete all of the steps without believing in some sort of higher power? I suppose there's no harm in trying it, however, OP. You could always stop if it wasn't working for you.

usmcmp

My thought about your dilemma is that you haven't been able to do it yourself, so it may be time to consider that there is a God, and He can help. There are so many stories out there of people coming to the end of their own abilities and finding that God can fix what we cannot. God healed my gallbladder when 5 doctors said it would have to be removed, and also he healed some personal, emotional hurts I'd dealt with for 20+ years. I thought I'd always have that scar, but suddenly, it was gone. God sent his son Jesus to die for us so that we can be reconciled to God. Jesus said, there is no greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Every single person who doesn't believe in god HAS considered the idea of a god. Your attempt at being condescending is appalling.

How about buddhism, which has faith and spirituality yet no god at all?

A higher power doesn't need to be a guy on a cloud handing out favors or punishments. It doesn't need to be a guy on a cloud at all. Or a guy. Or an anything.

The functional notion of 'higher power' in this context is intended to be infinitely flexible (according to documentary evidence of the people who created the notion). The 12 steps were created in a time in American history where monotheistic Christianity was the order of the day. The program stemmed from the principals of the Oxford Groups which were quite specifically Christian. Funnily enough, AA broke away from that. They did their best, despite the limitations of their 1930s cultuer and lexicon, to express the higher power as an infinitely accessible, infinitely variable and highly personal concept.

Unfortunately in their use of language, they were far from perfect seperating the concept of a higher power from the judeochristian external, paternal, omnipotent male archetype.

Long story short, do not needlessly adopt the limitations and ignorance of others.

I like you and we have been friends for a long time, but I really feel like you are trying to push this on her and insisting if she doesn't go she's ignorant. I know that's not what you are saying, but that's the way it is coming across. The reason there are a variety of treatments for mental health issues (eating disorders of all varieties included) is because not everyone responds to treatment in the same way. We are wired different. Some people need touchy feely, some people need spiritual, some people need tough love, some people need to be reminded that they are badass.

I can agree to being open to spirituality when it comes to the context of a the individual questioning the meaning of personal existence and attempting to define what their function or role in the world is. I do agree with the Buddhist Noble Eightfold Path, but it's about peace and empowerment. You make the changes to correct thinking/behaviors and produce peace. The OA 12 step program is about handing over control and letting someone else take the burden from you.

UsedToBeHusky

Never been to OA, but I have been to AA and NA meetings.

Basically, they would prefer that you believe in a higher power of some kind. However, they won't turn anyone away if you don't. It's just that the program is designed around faith, and a belief that you can draw from a source of strength other than yourself.

And can I just add that it wouldn't hurt just to attend a meeting or two before you decide that it's not for you. It's not like they sit around discussing the "higher power." However, the serenity prayer might be involved, but you don't have to participate in that part if you don't want to.

And after reading through the thread, let me just say that I only completed 6 or so of the steps, and then I stopped going. I have maintained my sobriety for nearly 10 years. So even if you don't choose to complete all the steps that doesn't mean that you aren't going to find it beneficial.

Texusmc

Never been to OA, but I have been to AA and NA meetings.

Basically, they would prefer that you believe in a higher power of some kind. However, they won't turn anyone away if you don't. It's just that the program is designed around faith, and a belief that you can draw from a source of strength other than yourself.

this belief is similar to the Ancient Free and Accepted Mason's (A.F.& A.M.), belief in deity (higher power) is all that is required to join. you don't discuss religion or politics, but you have to believe to join. it is up to you what you believe and your opinions are yours. that is all

dakotababy

lol if I had to pick a "higher power"...it would be me. My own inner voice and instincts, based on everything I have learnt in the past coming to gether to guide me.

AA, NA, OA - whatever...would not work for me. I do not necessarily believe it is not about religion. I think it is their own religion. "12-step" religion...it is very cult like which makes me feel uneasy. Though, go for it - try it out!

delicious_cocktail

My thought about your dilemma is that you haven't been able to do it yourself, so it may be time to consider that there is a God, and He can help. There are so many stories out there of people coming to the end of their own abilities and finding that God can fix what we cannot. God healed my gallbladder when 5 doctors said it would have to be removed, and also he healed some personal, emotional hurts I'd dealt with for 20+ years. I thought I'd always have that scar, but suddenly, it was gone. God sent his son Jesus to die for us so that we can be reconciled to God. Jesus said, there is no greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Every single person who doesn't believe in god HAS considered the idea of a god. Your attempt at being condescending is appalling.

How about buddhism, which has faith and spirituality yet no god at all?

A higher power doesn't need to be a guy on a cloud handing out favors or punishments. It doesn't need to be a guy on a cloud at all. Or a guy. Or an anything.

The functional notion of 'higher power' in this context is intended to be infinitely flexible (according to documentary evidence of the people who created the notion). The 12 steps were created in a time in American history where monotheistic Christianity was the order of the day. The program stemmed from the principals of the Oxford Groups which were quite specifically Christian. Funnily enough, AA broke away from that. They did their best, despite the limitations of their 1930s cultuer and lexicon, to express the higher power as an infinitely accessible, infinitely variable and highly personal concept.

Unfortunately in their use of language, they were far from perfect seperating the concept of a higher power from the judeochristian external, paternal, omnipotent male archetype.

Long story short, do not needlessly adopt the limitations and ignorance of others.

I like you and we have been friends for a long time, but I really feel like you are trying to push this on her and insisting if she doesn't go she's ignorant. I know that's not what you are saying, but that's the way it is coming across. The reason there are a variety of treatments for mental health issues (eating disorders of all varieties included) is because not everyone responds to treatment in the same way. We are wired different. Some people need touchy feely, some people need spiritual, some people need tough love, some people need to be reminded that they are badass.

I can agree to being open to spirituality when it comes to the context of a the individual questioning the meaning of personal existence and attempting to define what their function or role in the world is. I do agree with the Buddhist Noble Eightfold Path, but it's about peace and empowerment. You make the changes to correct thinking/behaviors and produce peace. The OA 12 step program is about handing over control and letting someone else take the burden from you.

Funny enough, the limitations and ignorance that I was referring to are not those of people who aren't certain or disbelieve; I was referring to the limitations and ignorance created within religion and that come from buying someone else's idea of a god.

However, I DID quote this time, to make it painfully clear to whom I was responding, & that wasn't to the OP. A poster suggested Jesus/God (the judeochristian concept of god/faith/sprituality) was the solution. A respondent stated that obviously that had already been considered and that it was condescending for someone to imply that it hasn't.

My response was (intended to mean) that the rejection of a single approach to god needn't eliminate every possible concept or approach to spirituality.

And following all of that, the whole purpose - in my understanding - of the belief in a higher power associated with these programs is to get people to just 'drop the rock'. A lot of people take solace in the idea of handing the rock over to someone or something, rather than just dropping it on the spot.

I really could go on an on, but at the end of the day, I'm encouraging open-mindedness.

delicious_cocktail

lol if I had to pick a "higher power"...it would be me. My own inner voice and instincts, based on everything I have learnt in the past coming to gether to guide me.

AA, NA, OA - whatever...would not work for me. I do not necessarily believe it is not about religion. I think it is their own religion. "12-step" religion...it is very cult like which makes me feel uneasy. Though, go for it - try it out!

There are definitely aspects of these programs which are cult-like.