advice on petty work situation

SymphonynSonata

Who here is assuming Norm is a female?

[

Edit because the person I quoted clearly said him, so, well, it was only me. Whatever. Sunday! Sorry for thinking you had a vaj, OP.

SunofaBeach14

She would have been escorted out the door in most places that I've worked

I would have been talked to about how my tone was not apologetic enough in my response and the other coworker was dissatisfied and what can I do to resolve this? :laugh:

Yikes! Sounds like a chain of command issue

Galatea_Stone

At my annual review, I got stellar ratings. One comment my boss made was, you are very professionals and respectful with your colleagues. She named this problem person when she said who I was respectful with.

That's why I think you should maintain that image. The more formal your responses, the less anyone can actually accuse you of.

And the better it looks for your discreet job search. Norm, I really think these women are putting you between a rock and a hard place. You're dealing with female office politics as much as anything else. I sympathize with you, but you have to think of you first and foremost, and if it means talking to a recruiter and looking around quietly at other companies, it would be wise to keep all options on the table before your reviews suddenly make you look like the bad guy.

NormInv

If these legs are female legs, I would love to get with me.

NormInv

At my annual review, I got stellar ratings. One comment my boss made was, you are very professionals and respectful with your colleagues. She named this problem person when she said who I was respectful with.

That's why I think you should maintain that image. The more formal your responses, the less anyone can actually accuse you of.

And the better it looks for your discreet job search. Norm, I really think these women are putting you between a rock and a hard place. You're dealing with female office politics as much as anything else. I sympathize with you, but you have to think of you first and foremost, and if it means talking to a recruiter and looking around quietly at other companies, it would be wise to keep all options on the table before your reviews suddenly make you look like the bad guy.

Agree with your female politics angle and appreciate the feedback. Thanks.

seltzermint555

I would say your first step is to reread your email to ensure it could not be construed as condescending or something along those lines...

Rereading...I agree with this also. In the OP it's mentioned that "please and thank you" was included and I REALLY hope that was simple paraphrasing to explain the email's politeness on this forum, and the OP did not say "Do this, and this. Please and thank you"...because if I were the coworker I'd read that as very condescending and rude.

SymphonynSonata

If these legs are female legs, I would love to get with me.

Me too. Haha, sorry. I completely misread two pages of replies. Feel free to stone me.

NormInv

Who here is assuming Norm is a female?

[

Edit because the person I quoted clearly said him, so, well, it was only me. Whatever. Sunday! Sorry for thinking you had a vaj, OP.

I wish

bethlaf

Completely honest opinion?

You're screwed if your boss said nothing and allowed this to happen. Get your resume in order and start looking.

I wish that there was a way to fix this, but you're dealing with office politics, women politics, and a power play. The reason she felt free to do this is because she's been doing it for years.

Wish I could disagree, but too much truth in here.

^ Yep. Find another job. Sorry, but you're going to get played eventually anyway and you're in a no-win situation.

QFT - as HR - i agree, this is something she has done before - if Sup did not take her to task or accepts it "part of her personality" you can't win, its not that your wrong, but , shes been this way for longer than they have known you,
OR- bring it up to the mgr, and leave it in her hands.

Nickle526

Now i am tempted to let it go, but I am also considering if my not confronting her will be seen as weakness. If she can get away with this outburst, she would make a habit out of it. I really do not want to have to deal with her issues, and I really dont care, but my only concern is how it will be perceived if I shut up.

Thoughts?

There is a quote out there that goes something like, "When we step on the toes of others, we force them to retaliate."

In the long run, what would be better? For your boss to take your side and the woman to be eternally pissed and in constant collision with you? Or would it to be better to put in effort with her right now and help to understand what might be behind this?

If I were in your position I would say to her -in person- something like, "I feel like I may need to apologize. I feel that from your response that you were offended by my request. That was not my intention in the slightest." Worst case scenario: She is a biotch forever and makes life difficult at work. But maybe you can gain some insight into why she reacted this way and can use that to better your work relationship.

A little kindness can go a long way.

Good Luck!

NormInv

I would say your first step is to reread your email to ensure it could not be construed as condescending or something along those lines...

Rereading...I agree with this also. In the OP it's mentioned that "please and thank you" was included and I REALLY hope that was simple paraphrasing to explain the email's politeness on this forum, and the OP did not say "Do this, and this. Please and thank you"...because if I were the coworker I'd read that as very condescending and rude.

it wasnt literal. It went something like:

Please lets discuss next time if you need clarification. Thanks.

AtticWindow

If these legs are female legs, I would love to get with me.

Dem calf muscles.

mandos_13

At my annual review, I got stellar ratings. One comment my boss made was, you are very professionals and respectful with your colleagues. She named this problem person when she said who I was respectful with.

So the notion that my email was offensive or overbearing is hard to believe. This woman's demeanor has been off the last several months.

The other thing that bothered me was that after this happened, all the other females in the department started bonding....like oh what are you doing this weekend...blah blah....even when usually they dont do that. The girl in question was so extra sweet to everyone.

I think this is a a setup and I feel like I will be cornered. My boss is not a fair woman but needs me for the job.

Sorry, I responded before I saw this post. I think it's a major red flag that your boss isn't a fair woman. If it's viable (not sure how available your particular job is in different areas or how saturated the market is for your job), looking around for another job or a transfer in your company where you'd have a different boss might be a good course of action.

The dynamic of females ganging up on your is disconcerting, especially if you think your boss will allow the fact that she is a woman to sway her decisions in how to treat these female employees vs. you.

wheird

I would say your first step is to reread your email to ensure it could not be construed as condescending or something along those lines...

Rereading...I agree with this also. In the OP it's mentioned that "please and thank you" was included and I REALLY hope that was simple paraphrasing to explain the email's politeness on this forum, and the OP did not say "Do this, and this. Please and thank you"...because if I were the coworker I'd read that as very condescending and rude.

it wasnt literal. It went something like:

Please lets discuss next time if you need clarification. Thanks.

Ahhh, that could be construed as condescending. Especially if she is being *****y.

RunsOnEspresso

Wow. I'm going the opposite way on this from others here: Talk to your boss about this face to face.

There can be a myriad of reasons why your boss did not publicly respond to this. Maybe they were waiting for you to stand up for yourself. How you handle the situation will tell your boss a lot about how you are going to be to work with down the road.

Also, you don't know (or if you do, you didn't say so) if she was pulled aside privately and talked to about it.

Most problems are due to a lack of communication. Talk to your boss first. Then talk to her. Be open and honest with both of them.

If you like your job, don't let her run you off. If you hate your job and this motivates you to get a job you like, then I agree with others that you should leave.

I think the world would run better if we would show strength and loyalty in the face of adversity instead of running away when things aren't going well.

I agree with this.

Also, you said she has been acting differently. Maybe something is bothering her in her personal life or she is unhappy and it has nothing to do with work/you. She just happened to take it out on you because it was easier.

SymphonynSonata

Okay, now that I've be all stupid about the sex of OP let me reevaluate this from a woman-to-man standpoint.

You wrote an e-mail, said please and thank you, but as others have said - could it have come off as domineering and condescending, especially if you were infact reiterating tasks that she has been doing successfully for 12 years?

Is this the first time you've had a power position? I've noticed that sometimes people who encounter newfound power for the first time can inadvertently over exert it and become almost abusive with it, EVEN if unintentional.

Because she's a woman and you're a man, with a lot of females there's a sort of underlying inferiority complex and the need to express that they are quite capable of their tasks and can get bitter if those tasks are questioned at all, especially by a man (see Naked and Afraid).

My guess? It's a misunderstanding. Depending on the structure of the e-mail your boss may just be taking the female's side because they both have vaginas, because they're synced up on cycles, the e-mail's context was inadvertantly condescending, or the female as seniority and has her own way of doing things which has been accepted over the last decade+ and it's not worth questioning or reprimanding by the boss. Also, if the reply had to do with how she knows how to do her tasks, what can the boss say? "You were told to do things that you do all of the time anyway and you said that you know how to do them. Be nicer about it next time"?

There's also a chance that it was brought up in private and you just weren't notified because office space drama should and needs to be kept to a minimum. Just bring it up with the boss and let us know what she says because I'm super curious now.

FlaxMilk

To be honest, her response is what I feel like typing when someone micromanages me or talks down to me or tells me something I clearly know and have known for years. I don't actually type it though for obvious reasons.

nancy10272004

I would say your first step is to reread your email to ensure it could not be construed as condescending or something along those lines...

Rereading...I agree with this also. In the OP it's mentioned that "please and thank you" was included and I REALLY hope that was simple paraphrasing to explain the email's politeness on this forum, and the OP did not say "Do this, and this. Please and thank you"...because if I were the coworker I'd read that as very condescending and rude.

it wasnt literal. It went something like:

Please lets discuss next time if you need clarification. Thanks.

Whoa! As a worker bee, I interpret emails like this as "What does he think I am, a g-danged mind reader? Why didn't he do a better job of explaining what he wanted? And why is he talking down to me like that? Who does he think he is?"

NormInv

The context of the email is:

I asked her to do A, she went on to do B instead. I asked her why she didnt do A. She said she could not do A so she did B.

But if I had known I would have asked her to do C, not B.

Hence I sent my email.

Please note she is my admin staff. I am a highly credentialed, highly qualified person, not to toot my own horn. I am more qualified than my boss.

ihad

There are a lot of things that could be happening here. Your email could have been worded to be inflammatory. The boss could have already dealt with this quietly without you knowing. The boss could be preoccupied and missed the whole thing. The boss could be waiting for you to deal with it first. There could be a longstanding issue going on that this is just one small piece of. They could be planning to fire the junior person in a few weeks and this email is part of the documentation trail. Until you find out, you're just guessing.

I don't think you should simply let this sit. I would suggest following up face to face rather than in email. I would follow-up with the junior person first. It shows you are willing to handle dustups like this without immediately dragging your boss in. If that is not fruitful, I'd talk with the boss. If the boss is willing to let it go like that, it's time to make other long term plans. If you are the problem, it gives you something to work on.

nancy10272004

The context of the email is:

I asked her to do A, she went on to do B instead. I asked her why she didnt do A. She said she could not do A so she did B.

But if I had known I would have asked her to do C, not B.

Hence I sent my email.

Please note she is my admin staff. I am a high credentialed, high qualified person, not to toot my own horn. I am more qualified than my boss.

Whoa again! Dial it back a bit. What you just typed to me, a highly credentialed, highly experienced, highly qualified professional, just made me feel bad about myself and makes me wonder if you don't think you should have your boss' job.

NormInv

The context of the email is:

I asked her to do A, she went on to do B instead. I asked her why she didnt do A. She said she could not do A so she did B.

But if I had known I would have asked her to do C, not B.

Hence I sent my email.

Please note she is my admin staff. I am a high credentialed, high qualified person, not to toot my own horn. I am more qualified than my boss.

Whoa again! Dial it back a bit. What you just typed to me, a highly credentialed, highly experienced, highly qualified professional, just made me feel bad about myself and makes me wonder if you don't think you should have your boss' job.

Umm no, The purpose was to give context of my perception of my value to the firm vs hers.

And every single person with an ounce of ambition believes they are vying for their boss' job. If not, you settled too soon.

FlaxMilk

There's no way to excuse her response to you. It wasn't professional. Your tone can come across as a bit brusque though. So it's really up to you: find a place where it's not tolerated and you don't have to worry about your tone because support is support and that's it, or try to be a bit more accommodating with your tone and stay where you are.

SunofaBeach14

The context of the email is:

I asked her to do A, she went on to do B instead. I asked her why she didnt do A. She said she could not do A so she did B.

But if I had known I would have asked her to do C, not B.

Hence I sent my email.

Please note she is my admin staff. I am a high credentialed, high qualified person, not to toot my own horn. I am more qualified than my boss.

Whoa again! Dial it back a bit. What you just typed to me, a highly credentialed, highly experienced, highly qualified professional, just made me feel bad about myself and makes me wonder if you don't think you should have your boss' job.

Umm no, The purpose was to give context of my perception of my value to the firm vs hers.

You missed the sarcasm I think, but there is a point to be made here. If your boss perceives you to be more highly credentialed then she may also feel threatened and so the power game only gets worse than I want I originally imagined. Run. Do not walk. To your nearest recruiter.

HerkMeOff

The context of the email is:

I asked her to do A, she went on to do B instead. I asked her why she didnt do A. She said she could not do A so she did B.

But if I had known I would have asked her to do C, not B.

Hence I sent my email.

Please note she is my admin staff. I am a high credentialed, high qualified person, not to toot my own horn. I am more qualified than my boss.

Whoa again! Dial it back a bit. What you just typed to me, a highly credentialed, highly experienced, highly qualified professional, just made me feel bad about myself and makes me wonder if you don't think you should have your boss' job.

Umm no, The purpose was to give context of my perception of my value to the firm vs hers.

With all do respect SIR, if you have such high credentials, so highly qualified, shouldn't you know how to handle this already? Surely you have encountered a little office politics in your carreer

wheird

The context of the email is:

I asked her to do A, she went on to do B instead. I asked her why she didnt do A. She said she could not do A so she did B.

But if I had known I would have asked her to do C, not B.

Hence I sent my email.

Please note she is my admin staff. I am a highly credentialed, highly qualified person, not to toot my own horn. I am more qualified than my boss.

Ahh, I gotcha. Just make sure to clarify with her that if she cannot do task A in the future, to let you know in case you feel task C would be more beneficial.

You were definitely in the right here, but she probably felt like an *kitten* and got defensive.

NormInv

I think this started a few months ago when we were in a department meeting. My boss said, we are sending you to attend the annual meeting in this city. So the problem person said, oh I always like to go to that. My boss said, well we cant send you, we can only send 3 people this year. The tension was palpable.

Not my fault bro. I just showed up looking pretty

NormInv

The context of the email is:

I asked her to do A, she went on to do B instead. I asked her why she didnt do A. She said she could not do A so she did B.

But if I had known I would have asked her to do C, not B.

Hence I sent my email.

Please note she is my admin staff. I am a high credentialed, high qualified person, not to toot my own horn. I am more qualified than my boss.

Whoa again! Dial it back a bit. What you just typed to me, a highly credentialed, highly experienced, highly qualified professional, just made me feel bad about myself and makes me wonder if you don't think you should have your boss' job.

Umm no, The purpose was to give context of my perception of my value to the firm vs hers.

With all do respect SIR, if you have such high credentials, so highly qualified, shouldn't you know how to handle this already? Surely you have encountered a little office politics in your carreer

Unfortunately I do not. Because my modus operandi has been to get up and leave. I am not making this up. I certainly need to learn how to deal with politics but thus far I just up and leave if they are not fair to me. In return, I am extremely hard working and fair and polite.

Slacker16

ITT:
Why the corporate world doesn't attract me one bit.

Let it go. Your boss knows all the details since she was CC'ed into the emails, you can't really influence her opinion anymore and calling more attention to the incident won't do anything. It could even make you look bad.

moenter

I also tend to cut and run when faced with difficult situstions. What I believe is that until you learn how to deal with a problem it will keep reocurring. So your choice is to take an action in this workplace or move on and face a similar problem later. You've received a lot of really good advice. What I would suggest is to be transparent. Go to your boss and respectfully discuss the matter. Go to your employee and do the same. How they act is not your problem. Only how you act. At that point whether you stay or go, you are making progress.