3 weeks dieting and not a lb lost - check my diary?

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Replies

  • tigerblue
    tigerblue Posts: 1,526 Member
    For some reason you are not in calorie deficit. Many people have suggested possible reasons for this, and really only trial and error will tell you what is going on. I was in denial about this for two years! I ended up putting on 17 lbs! So don't be stubborn about it like I was--be open minded!

    What worked best for me was eating at what several BMR calculators estimated was maintenance for me for a couple of months while logging meticulously and weighing and recording my weight daily. Sounds obsessive, and I guess it is in a way. But after confirming my maintenance needs by actually maintaining for awhile, I have now cut 250 cals out per day, and finally I am losing. I too am small and fit (although not as fit as you), and my maintenance number was lower than I wanted it to be!

    Also, I no longer log exercise calories separately. I use a TDEE minus deficit method instead. I do adjust my calories a little daily. On long run days I add 100 calories or so, and on rest days, I eat 50 under my goal. So I preserve my deficit, and I look at averages over time. Message me if you want more info.
  • zekerella
    zekerella Posts: 58 Member
    you're right. If this week still has no results then Ill try and find my maintenance through trial and error. Ill eat 2000 for 3 weeks and see if I lose or gain. then ill adjust from there till I find it.
  • FireOpalCO
    FireOpalCO Posts: 641 Member
    Another quick source of protein that I just remembered. Costco sells sleeves of frozen turkey burgers for a reasonable price. 200 calories in one, 35 grams of protein.
    I think you've overstated the protein by 30-40%

    http://www.jennieo.com/products/70-Lean-Turkey-Burger-Patties 21 g
    http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/burger-turkey 25 g

    No, I didn't. I'm not sure what products I didn't mention have to do with the product I did mention. Which is Kirkland Signature and the grams of protein comes straight off the label.
  • sleepytexan
    sleepytexan Posts: 3,138 Member
    excellent diary.

    could try eating at TDEE - 20% and logging exercise as 1 calorie burned only.

    Not sure your numbers, but perhaps will make a difference.

    Try Scooby's workshop:

    http://scoobysworkshop.com/accurate-calorie-calculator/
  • MelodyandBarbells
    MelodyandBarbells Posts: 7,724 Member
    So OP are you really gonna white knuckle your eating through triathlon/ironman training? Are you at all scared of just passing out?
  • SLLRunner
    SLLRunner Posts: 12,942 Member
    alrighty the whole "starvation mode" is total crap. Starvation mode is when you're so skinny that you barely have any muscle so you're not burning any calories, and it needs every single calorie to do basic bodily function. This comes from a gradual metabolic adjustment to that low weight, but by the time you actually got to "starvation mode" you'd be well underweight.
    Welcome! You are absolutely correct.
  • SLLRunner
    SLLRunner Posts: 12,942 Member
    I was going to say something similar. Weigh your food. Every time. Also, your fat looks a little high, carbs and protein low. Your body needs fuel to burn.
    This 10 times over!

    I have tested this, and 32 grams of peanut butter is less than the 2 tablespoons, as indicated on the jar. In other words, you have 2 tablespoons of peanut butter it's probably MORE than 32 grams, thus more calories

    Same thing was bananas. I've tested this. Bananas look the same size, but their weights will be different in anywhere from 10-50 grams. Really, they all look like medium bananas, which are supposed to be by measurement.

    Same with fruits and vegetables--they can look the same size but their weights are different.

    Meat, etc. etc., everything you eat can be different in weight, and the weight is never the same as the measuring spoon or measuring cup. It's just the way it is.
  • SLLRunner
    SLLRunner Posts: 12,942 Member
    you're right. If this week still has no results then Ill try and find my maintenance through trial and error. Ill eat 2000 for 3 weeks and see if I lose or gain. then ill adjust from there till I find it.
    You can do it. :smile:
  • ASKyle
    ASKyle Posts: 1,475 Member
    Not losing?

    Check your hormones (thyroid for example).

    If that is not it, then you are not in a deficit. Period. The end. This can be due to underestimating food intake or over estimating exercise. Or simply being over repeatedly as some have noted you've been here and there.

    If you are seriously looking for advice, you should refrain from arguing with everyone here about how they are wrong.

    +1

    +2 Period. The end.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    ok. I am very convinced that my numbers on exercise are right or under what I am actually burning.

    I think what Ill try (as per some great suggestions!) is to be SPOT ON with my calories this week. Ill eat exactly 1300-1550 everyday and will weigh my bananas/ect… Ill also cut out 1 tbs of nut butters. (I wanna cry at the thought of NO peanut butter haha) and Ill replace my post workout meals with whole foods. Although I'm not sure where to get the protein….I can eat berries for carbs but protein is a mystery to me as I can't handle protein powders as I am intolerant to artificial sweeteners (including stevia). I guess I can each a chicken breast lol although that sounds gross.

    Ill see where that takes me. Anyone who is also curious/tagging this - message me sometime next week and Ill let you know how it went.

    I don't feel safe cutting out more calories (as I got my metabolism tested a year ago and I burn 1950 calories a day at rest. So I know that my maintenance is anywhere from 1950-2250 without exercise. I also do not feel safe cutting out more carbs as I know that as a triathlete I should actually be eating 60% to maintain my high level/high intensity workouts. But I can look at where I am getting my carbs from….Ill replace with sweet potatoes/brown rice/whole grain bread this week and see how that goes.

    This is what I'm starting to sense.

    You have a bigger deficit than reasonable for only 10 lbs to lose, should be 1/2 lb weekly.
    You underestimate several big calorie burns, probably creating an even bigger deficit.
    You have massive training schedule.

    Your RMR, if you were awake resting all day just like during the test, would be 1950 a day. You realize how much more than that you burn even without exercise, your maintenance is well above 1950 a day, way above with exercise included.

    I think you have created a bigger deficit than you think, and at your huge training level have accelerated what can happen.

    Just please try to adjust up, sadly starting on down side is going to be very difficult to do that.

    Keep that 1500 net, but keep it accurate.

    Also, for the calorie estimates, use this for running. More accurate than HRM if correct on the grade %. If you have any app that tells you total gain in feet, double that figure (unless you didn't go back down hill) / miles / 5280 * 100 = grade %. And select NET option for total amount to eat back. Gross is what any other HRM or database would tell you.
    www.exrx.net/Calculators/WalkRunMETs.html

    I think your other calorie burn methods are correct, but don't short the estimate thinking a bigger deficit there is better. It's not.
    But what you do need to do with those burns, and since they are big this matters, is the same thing that NET option does above for running. It removes the RMR calories that would have happened anyway.
    So 1950 / 24 = 81.25 calories removed from biking and swimming estimates per hour they are done.

    I can't believe some aren't aware of the potential calorie burn from a fit athlete, light or not.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    I didn't scan the comments to see if anyone else suggested this, but I was working out 6 days a week, eating under 1200 calories/day and never lost weight UNTIL I tried a Ketosis regimen. I upped my calories to 1400 (so my body stopped clinging so desperately in starvation mode to those fat calories), made sure my fat intake was *higher* than my protein and I cut all processed sugars and grain carbs out of my diet. It is not sustainable (because who can eat that much fat all the time - gross), but it will train your body to eat fat after about a week, and it worked to kick my notoriously sluggish metabolism in the *kitten*. I dropped the majority of my remaining body fat in a month, and when I finally started eating normally again, my metabolism has been much more efficient.

    Can't work on the cardio program being done. There is no tricking the body as to required fuel source when intensity goes up, with less oxygen available, it has to be carbs, it cannot be fat.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    alrighty the whole "starvation mode" is total crap. Starvation mode is when you're so skinny that you barely have any muscle so you're not burning any calories, and it needs every single calorie to do basic bodily function. This comes from a gradual metabolic adjustment to that low weight, but by the time you actually got to "starvation mode" you'd be well underweight.

    Would you consider taking a 25% deficit off lab measured sedentary TDEE for an obese person and having your body slow down from "starvation mode" or adaptive thermogenesis or metabolic efficiency or whatever you want to call it total crap?

    Might want to see many new studies that are out disproving your assertion about what it takes to get it.

    Now, if there are some effects you've heard go along with starvation mode that you think aren't true, those may indeed be myths. But you don't seem to be talking about those, merely the slowdown part you think isn't possible unless starving. And starving is not starvation mode, it's that and worse.

    But your body burning less than it could otherwise by upwards of 20-25 % - totally true.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i_cmltmQ6A

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/heybales/view/reduced-metabolism-tdee-beyond-expected-from-weight-loss-616251

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1077746-starvation-mode-adaptive-thermogenesis-and-weight-loss

    And if there is a lack of appreciation for the fact it can happen without too much difficulty, then you can inadvertently be encouraging someone to grind their metabolism in to the ground.
    While true, they will eventually lose again, and require eating 20-25% less calories than they need to, in the case of big training, or having so little calories be sustainable and adhere to them, and having maintenance suck big time, talk about a recipe for maintenance failure.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Regarding calorie burn from cycling: There is a per mile way of estimating this similar to the running method. It was 33 to 37 cals per mile. I've been trying to find that cycling forum where I read that but I've lost it. Sorry.

    My Garmin HR monitor gives me suspiciously high burns. I now use it to get my average heart rate then plug that into the calculators on shape sense.com.

    One last thing: It may be that you will find advice more suited to the needs of athletes in the Fitness and Exercise section of these forums. Also there may be a group for triathletes.

    Good luck on your weight loss and in your competitions.

    Cycling is such a tough one, estimates are indeed all over the road.
    Best you can get is a HRM with best values as possible to give best estimate.

    Some of the older Garmin's while using HR for logging and display, didn't use it for estimating calorie burn, good ole' weight and pace.

    I think the plus for triathlete training - no estimates with drafting included in group rides to throw it off.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Wow thanks everyone for your help and input. I do weigh/measure things. I dont weight my banana - but i do put my pb in a tablespoon and scrap off the excess. I do weight my chicken/sweet potato ect...

    at this point I have no problem depriving myself. ]

    But Ill also note that I am so hungry all the time. I dont mean "oh i could eat." I mean weak anxious I cant concentrate starving. The thought of eating less makes me want to cry.

    I am a stop motion animator as my job which means on my feet all day running around the studio crawling under tables and doing squats and stretches between shots :) Im not doing contractor work but its not sitting at a desk. I also walk my dog and hour every day and do abs or handstand work 10 minutes every other day that I dont log.

    I dont even know how I have time for this all now that I see it written down.

    I hope you didn't set your MFP activity level to sedentary then - no wonder you are feeling "hungry" all the time.
    That is Lightly Active at minimum, with dog walk, Active if you don't want to log it.

    I'm seeing more and more estimating much on the safe side, bigger deficits, that I don't think the small calorie differences in the food (a banana difference of 50 grams is only 44 calories), measured tblsp peanut butter is 35 more than weighed for instance. If you were doing a lot of those things, perhaps you could overcome a likely 700-800 cal deficit - but lets be real.

    But your daily activity causing a maintenance well above your estimate 2000 with an RMR that was 1950, is big deficit already.
  • MelodyandBarbells
    MelodyandBarbells Posts: 7,724 Member
    Yeah but then she eats above her targets. And come on, measuring vs weighing PB to account for negligible calories?? You've no idea if she's heaping the tablespoons or even just eye balling them. The point is to notice she's not using a scale all the time. The solution usually winds up being self correcting. Each individual quickly discovers for themselves that 400 calorie item they were guesstimating to be 50

    I do agree with lightly active, etc.

    I still think she's really little and at this stage just needs to fuel appropriately and exercise. The physical demands seem too much (in my lay opinion) to worry about weight loss right now
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Yeah but then she eats above her targets. And come on, measuring vs weighing PB to account for negligible calories?? You've no idea if she's heaping the tablespoons or even just eye balling them. The point is to notice she's not using a scale all the time. The solution usually winds up being self correcting. Each individual quickly discovers for themselves that 400 calorie item they were guesstimating to be 50

    I do agree with lightly active, etc.

    I still think she's really little and at this stage just needs to fuel appropriately and exercise. The physical demands seem too much (in my lay opinion) to worry about weight loss right now

    True, the impact to performance from this attempt I'm betting will outweigh (weigh! ha!) the benefits of less bodyfat or less weight even. I know 10 lbs can make a difference biking up a steep hill or running in general, but 10 extra lbs of float on the swim can be great benefit.

    She did comment on peanut butter though, leveled off tablespoon, so 6 extra grams was generous on my part for difference between 40 gram measured and 34 g weight serving.
    And that and banana is average once daily, merely pointing out the suggested difference of 50 grams being a big deal.

    If there was a lot of oatmeal, cereal, granola cereal, other high fat items that pack a punch of calories for small quantity normally assigned, oh, like ice cream, then I could see a smallish deficit being eaten up.
    But 500 cal, plus the auto deficit from incorrect activity level, plus the calorie burns being underestimated always, ehhhh, harder to see it happening.
    If she has a VO2max of 55 or better, and doing those paces in the logs - those are some huge burns.

    Indeed though, going over goal because of not surprisingly being very hungry, isn't good either.
  • MelodyandBarbells
    MelodyandBarbells Posts: 7,724 Member
    Haha weigh. I love puns :smile:

    Her extra activity probably just means her net really might be 1500 for 1/2 lb a week loss. Activity still won't just give you tons of calories burned especially on a small person. Now she just needs to be accurate with logging and hit that.
  • zekerella
    zekerella Posts: 58 Member
    Wow thanks everyone for your help and input. I do weigh/measure things. I dont weight my banana - but i do put my pb in a tablespoon and scrap off the excess. I do weight my chicken/sweet potato ect...

    at this point I have no problem depriving myself. ]

    But Ill also note that I am so hungry all the time. I dont mean "oh i could eat." I mean weak anxious I cant concentrate starving. The thought of eating less makes me want to cry.

    I am a stop motion animator as my job which means on my feet all day running around the studio crawling under tables and doing squats and stretches between shots :) Im not doing contractor work but its not sitting at a desk. I also walk my dog and hour every day and do abs or handstand work 10 minutes every other day that I dont log.

    I dont even know how I have time for this all now that I see it written down.

    I hope you didn't set your MFP activity level to sedentary then - no wonder you are feeling "hungry" all the time.
    That is Lightly Active at minimum, with dog walk, Active if you don't want to log it.

    I'm seeing more and more estimating much on the safe side, bigger deficits, that I don't think the small calorie differences in the food (a banana difference of 50 grams is only 44 calories), measured tblsp peanut butter is 35 more than weighed for instance. If you were doing a lot of those things, perhaps you could overcome a likely 700-800 cal deficit - but lets be real.

    But your daily activity causing a maintenance well above your estimate 2000 with an RMR that was 1950, is big deficit already.

    you get it!!!!!!! finally someone who understands. And also understands how wrong some of these others are haha.
  • zekerella
    zekerella Posts: 58 Member
    Like I said. Im just being super accurate this week. Im starving all the time but maybe thats just how its going to be. Im never in a real "off season" so there is no good time for me to drop this weight than the present. If still nothing then I have to eat maintenance anyways for 2 weeks before my race June 8th so that'll be a good time to see how that goes.
  • MelodyandBarbells
    MelodyandBarbells Posts: 7,724 Member
    Wow thanks everyone for your help and input. I do weigh/measure things. I dont weight my banana - but i do put my pb in a tablespoon and scrap off the excess. I do weight my chicken/sweet potato ect...

    at this point I have no problem depriving myself. ]

    But Ill also note that I am so hungry all the time. I dont mean "oh i could eat." I mean weak anxious I cant concentrate starving. The thought of eating less makes me want to cry.

    I am a stop motion animator as my job which means on my feet all day running around the studio crawling under tables and doing squats and stretches between shots :) Im not doing contractor work but its not sitting at a desk. I also walk my dog and hour every day and do abs or handstand work 10 minutes every other day that I dont log.

    I dont even know how I have time for this all now that I see it written down.

    I hope you didn't set your MFP activity level to sedentary then - no wonder you are feeling "hungry" all the time.
    That is Lightly Active at minimum, with dog walk, Active if you don't want to log it.

    I'm seeing more and more estimating much on the safe side, bigger deficits, that I don't think the small calorie differences in the food (a banana difference of 50 grams is only 44 calories), measured tblsp peanut butter is 35 more than weighed for instance. If you were doing a lot of those things, perhaps you could overcome a likely 700-800 cal deficit - but lets be real.

    But your daily activity causing a maintenance well above your estimate 2000 with an RMR that was 1950, is big deficit already.

    you get it!!!!!!! finally someone who understands. And also understands how wrong some of these others are haha.

    Guess how you would know if we were wrong? Hint: your thread wouldn't exist

    And on another note, Something's not right here. I hate that an athlete working out so much still has to be so hungry all the time. There's gotta be a better way!
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Like I said. Im just being super accurate this week. Im starving all the time but maybe thats just how its going to be. Im never in a real "off season" so there is no good time for me to drop this weight than the present. If still nothing then I have to eat maintenance anyways for 2 weeks before my race June 8th so that'll be a good time to see how that goes.

    Hopefully you are weighing what you would normally eat, don't let the scale dictate what you would eat, at least for 2 weeks.
    Because then you could never report back by how much you were off.

    There have been some past threads where they did come back and reported 2 weeks weighing all they normally ate, and eating 200 more than they previously thought, or whatever the number was.

    That's what is useful, first know how much you were eating being more accurate, and then if you need to move the calories a certain direction, changing the amount you eat.

    For the hunger, you got your normal meal and snack timing tweaked around your workouts?

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