Necessity of carbs when bulking

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Replies

  • waldo56
    waldo56 Posts: 1,861 Member
    You realize that all of this is basically irrelevant because it's near impossible to eat isolated fructose? Even HFCS is about half glucose. Stop demonizing fructose...

    Some fruit and some HFCS varieties (and some honey) are very high in fructose vs. other sugars.

    Physically, compared to other carbs, fructose sucks.

    It reduces leptin in the blood, increases blood triglycerides, and has very little insulin response. The science is pretty clear on this.

    If you are using carbs for muscle building or refeeding, low fructose carb sources are better (starch heavy or lactose heavy are good bets to be very low in fructose).
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  • 970Mikaela1
    970Mikaela1 Posts: 2,013 Member
    Bump for later.
  • albertabeefy
    albertabeefy Posts: 1,169 Member
    Seeing all the things you folks eat while bulking makes me jealous. It's not as easy for us Type I diabetics ... :angry:

    Because I maintain excellent glycemic control with a low-carb diet (and currently no bolus insulin, just basal), I'm really lucky to pack on 2 lbs a year, but it's better than nothing.
  • CrusaderSam
    CrusaderSam Posts: 180 Member
    Being a type 1 diabetic you have to inject all your insulin. You sure could get a large spike like that...thinking about it, anyone could inject insulin. Why would anyone worry about what carbs spike what, when you could just take the stuff. Oh hold on a lot of pro bodybuilders and powerlifters do! So I am going to put this in to the "yes it works but its so small next to the guys injecting stuff its not worth bothering about". Just like the whole test boosting what ever verses just injecting as much testosterone as you like.

    I dont know maybe I am the crazy one but I think people should focus more on enjoying themselves then just trying to pack on muscle or getting big numbers for the sake of it. If that is the only reason you are lifting weights, you are never going to be happy with the results. Sometimes I feel like I am the only one that likes to lift weights because I just enjoy it as exercise.
  • Springfield1970
    Springfield1970 Posts: 1,945 Member
    I'm enjoying this discussion very much! It would be good to organise all the carb categories. This is how I see things. Please add.

    Carbs- slower releasing PRE (2-3 hours) exercise. Glucose(immediate releasing) during exercise. Fast releasing POST (ASAP)So unrefined before, refined after. I usually have a window of 6 hours (inc the workout) to place my carbs. The rest of the time it's lower/complex carbs.

    This article may help too. Interesting that honey and glucose are in same category yet act differently. I'm a big carb fan if you hadn't guessed already. Mainly because I murdered my fitness and vitality with low carb for a number of years. I got this from fitday, and I disagree that simple sugars should be limited for athletes on workout days.


    Carbohydrates, proteins and fats form the three main macronutrients that are essential in every balanced diet. While proteins and fats may be responsible for bodily functions such as the creation of body tissues and insulation, carbohydrates provide calories that are necessary for the production of energy. In fact, carbs provide more than 60 percent of the amount of energy required by the body. The energy is mostly used for normal body functions such as heartbeat, digestion, breathing and body movement. Carbohydrates can be classified according to their chemical structures, and under such classification, they are divided into simple carbohydrates and complex carbohydrates.

    Simple Carbohydrates

    Simple carbohydrates are simple sugars with a chemical structure that is composed of one or two sugars. They are refined sugars that have very little nutritional value to the body, and therefore, it's advisable that their consumption be limited to small quantities. In comparison to complex carbohydrates, simple carbohydrates are digested by the body more quickly, because they have a very simple chemical structure.

    There are two types of simple carbohydrates: monosaccharides and disaccharides. Monosaccharides consist of only one sugar, and examples include fructose, galactose and glucose. Disaccharides consist of two chemically-linked monosaccharides, and they come in the form of lactose, maltose and sucrose.

    Foods that contain simple carbohydrates include table sugar, products with white flour, honey, milk, yoghurt, candy, chocolate, fruit, fruit juice, cake, jam, biscuits, molasses, soda and packaged cereals. Despite the fact that simple carbohydrates do not contain enough essential nutrients, some foodstuffs such as fruits may still be good for you.

    Complex Carbohydrates

    Complex carbohydrates consist of a chemical structure that is made up of three or more sugars, which are usually linked together to form a chain. These sugars are mostly rich in fiber, vitamins and minerals. Due to their complexity, they take a little longer to digest, and they don't raise the sugar levels in the blood as quickly as simple carbohydrates. Complex carbohydrates act as the body's fuel, and they contribute significantly to energy production.

    Similar to simple carbohydrates, complex carbohydrates are divided into two categories: oligosaccharides and polysaccharides. Oligosaccharides consist of a small number of monosaccharides, which does not exceed 10. They are important in the absorption of certain minerals and the formation of fatty acids. Polysaccharides are often made up of a large number of monosaccharides and disaccharides. Examples of polysaccharides include cellulose, dextrin, glycogen and starch.

    Complex carbohydrates are commonly found in vegetables, whole-meal bread and cereals. Examples of foods that contain complex carbohydrates include spinach, yams, broccoli, beans, zucchini, lentils, skimmed milk, whole grains and many other leguminous plants and vegetables.

    Complex carbohydrates have a higher nutritional value than simple carbohydrates. It may be confusing to differentiate simple and complex carbohydrates due to the fact that complex ones contain certain elements of simple ones. Nevertheless, differentiating the two should not be a problem since their chemical structures are very different, and therefore, they can be distinguished by their nutritional properties. The consumption of simple carbohydrates is not recommended, especially for diabetics.
  • geebusuk
    geebusuk Posts: 3,348 Member
    Simple vs complex carbs for people that make a bit of an effort, it doesn't really matter:
    http://www.simplyshredded.com/the-science-of-nutrition-is-a-carb-a-carb.html
  • superhippo95
    superhippo95 Posts: 21 Member
    carbs are nonessential
    a caloric surplus is what is needed to promote muscle growth and weight gain
  • MityMax96
    MityMax96 Posts: 5,778 Member
    carbs are nonessential
    a caloric surplus is what is needed to promote muscle growth and weight gain

    Carbs do play a role in that process. :wink:
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  • MityMax96
    MityMax96 Posts: 5,778 Member
    :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

    Roger that
  • waldo56
    waldo56 Posts: 1,861 Member
    Being a type 1 diabetic you have to inject all your insulin. You sure could get a large spike like that...thinking about it, anyone could inject insulin. Why would anyone worry about what carbs spike what, when you could just take the stuff. Oh hold on a lot of pro bodybuilders and powerlifters do!

    I'm actually curious as to which came first; competitive muscle builders figuring out that injected insulin is hella effective for muscle building, or science unlocking the basics of the mTOR pathway. Both seemed to occur fairly concurrently.
  • Springfield1970
    Springfield1970 Posts: 1,945 Member
    carbs are nonessential
    a caloric surplus is what is needed to promote muscle growth and weight gain

    Carbs do play a role in that process. :wink:

    Mity, Never take carb advice from a man with no ears, eyes or nose.

    Hahaha I love this website for laughs..
  • CrusaderSam
    CrusaderSam Posts: 180 Member
    Being a type 1 diabetic you have to inject all your insulin. You sure could get a large spike like that...thinking about it, anyone could inject insulin. Why would anyone worry about what carbs spike what, when you could just take the stuff. Oh hold on a lot of pro bodybuilders and powerlifters do!

    I'm actually curious as to which came first; competitive muscle builders figuring out that injected insulin is hella effective for muscle building, or science unlocking the basics of the mTOR pathway. Both seemed to occur fairly concurrently.

    After looking on Wikipedia, it seems like it was understood that insulin and IGF caused hyperplasia before the pathway was found. (Not to be confused by the hypertrophy caused by steroids).
  • 43mmmgoody21
    43mmmgoody21 Posts: 146 Member

    I'm not aware of a single study that shows any benefit whatsoever of an intake above 0.8g protein /lb LBM when bulking. At bulking food intakes, that should be quite easy for all but the poorest LBM estimators to hit. When cutting, that is when higher intakes are important.

    I am curious on how YOU keep track of this 0.8g protein/lb LBM. For example, say i have 160 LBM (which equals 128 grams protein/day). Would you hit 128 with high quality (meat, egg, milk) and then any extra from lower quality protein sources (say bread, rice...) is just a bonus.

    I wonder this because say i hit 128 grams a day (half coming from meat; half coming from lower quality sources) would this, in your opinion, be adequate.

    BTW. I like your website.
  • MityMax96
    MityMax96 Posts: 5,778 Member
    I keep track by logging what I eat.

    But I like my sources for protein, so I typically go over what I need.
  • waldo56
    waldo56 Posts: 1,861 Member

    I'm not aware of a single study that shows any benefit whatsoever of an intake above 0.8g protein /lb LBM when bulking. At bulking food intakes, that should be quite easy for all but the poorest LBM estimators to hit. When cutting, that is when higher intakes are important.

    I am curious on how YOU keep track of this 0.8g protein/lb LBM. For example, say i have 160 LBM (which equals 128 grams protein/day). Would you hit 128 with high quality (meat, egg, milk) and then any extra from lower quality protein sources (say bread, rice...) is just a bonus.

    I wonder this because say i hit 128 grams a day (half coming from meat; half coming from lower quality sources) would this, in your opinion, be adequate.

    BTW. I like your website.

    I just try to hit about 1g /lb BW (~200g, nice round number) and leave it at that bulking or cutting. I don't really care about protein "quality" since I'm taking in more than I need.
  • 43mmmgoody21
    43mmmgoody21 Posts: 146 Member

    I just try to hit about 1g /lb BW (~200g, nice round number) and leave it at that bulking or cutting. I don't really care about protein "quality" since I'm taking in more than I need.


    Thanks for your input. How many grams of fat do you aim for per pound of bodyweight?
  • MityMax96
    MityMax96 Posts: 5,778 Member

    I just try to hit about 1g /lb BW (~200g, nice round number) and leave it at that bulking or cutting. I don't really care about protein "quality" since I'm taking in more than I need.


    Thanks for your input. How many grams of fat do you aim for per pound of bodyweight?

    I go for around 0.4 gr
    But try to make sure I stay below 70 gr for the day
    I have noticed when I go over that, I get "bloated" and "soft" looking
    I don't like it
  • 43mmmgoody21
    43mmmgoody21 Posts: 146 Member

    I just try to hit about 1g /lb BW (~200g, nice round number) and leave it at that bulking or cutting. I don't really care about protein "quality" since I'm taking in more than I need.


    Thanks for your input. How many grams of fat do you aim for per pound of bodyweight?

    I go for around 0.4 gr
    But try to make sure I stay below 70 gr for the day
    I have noticed when I go over that, I get "bloated" and "soft" looking
    I don't like it

    Those numbers look like iifym bang on!

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