Dear IIFYMers...and everyone else
Replies
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Also, who said the body shouldn't have more than 50g of sugar? Where did that come from? 1 apple, banana and peach basically takes you to that number
http://health.howstuffworks.com/wellness/food-nutrition/facts/usda-sugar-guidelines-ga.htm
http://fnic.nal.usda.gov/dietary-guidance/dietary-reference-intakes/dri-tables
The gubment. USDA, NAS, IOM, etc. If you don't agree with them that's your call, but you know. Science.
Of course I was estimating the 50g number. It depends on your height/weight/age/gender etc. Roughly 50g for an average adult male, or just about 1 can of coke. That is what they recommend you should have in a 24 hour period, no more, to maintain good weight and organ health.
Same thing for Sodium. They recommend no more than 2500mg a day for the same average person.0 -
Let's say I had a rough day. I get home and mix myself up a mini batch of chocolate icing in a mug and dig in. This sweet indulgence works, I feel better. When I go to enter it into my diary, I'm delighted to find that it all fit into my macros (let's pretend I had a very high protein lunch/breakfast). I'm under my calorie goal by a hair too.
Okay or not okay? And why please.
As an occasional thing - sure why not (big high five).0 -
Thanks for all the great replies. I have definitely mixed up a mug of icing after a rough day before (consider it my shot of whiskey), but it didn't happen today. Btw, the recipe is softened butter, cocoa and icing sugar. Proportions can vary and it still works.
Most of my own opinions on the topic have been expressed by others already (which is exactly what I was hoping for) but I feel remiss in not expressing them at some point so here goes.
I'm interested in health ahead of weight loss, and given that I substituted the carbs in icing carbs for carbs in roasted vegetables, I missed out on some important nutrients, so not a great idea to do with any frequency. I also missed out on the fiber that those vegetables (or any other "healthy" carb) would have provided so I may feel hungry later.
If I don't have "rough days" very often this mug icing thing is probably fine. But it's dangerous territory to use food to destress.
Comparing my icing scenario to Sarah's IIFYM end of day ice cream treat thread, she scheduled it in (mine was reactionary), and it was consumed knowing she had met all her macro AND MICRO goals first.
But...and here is where I may get clobbered...what's the big deal about macros anyway? MFP did a blurb about it a while ago and they suggested that their recommended proportions just had to do with satiation. Are we really just trying to get people to eat a little more protein and a little less carbs (40-30-30 vs 50-30-20)?
If you've already met your micros then adding more won't help. You don't get extra credit. If you're not eating veggies so you can have frosting then that would be an issue for me. However if you've already gotten in your servings of veggies and you skip frosting just so you can eat 500 calories or whatever of extra vegetables, I don't see that as extra benefit.
Macros do serve a purpose beyond satiety though. Protein protects your muscle while you lose weight (and MFP's recommendation is very low); fat helps you absorb nutrients and if you're not getting enough of it all the veggies in the world will not make a difference, because your body won't be able to benefit from them; carbs give you energy, which is important especially if you're working out.0 -
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1 can of coke huh, so like I said, those 3 pieces of fruit and that's it? No more sugar for the day? Is this also like how it's recommend we only eat around 7th5g of protein? Also, plenty of us maintain a great weight at higher than 50g of sugar.Also, who said the body shouldn't have more than 50g of sugar? Where did that come from? 1 apple, banana and peach basically takes you to that number
http://health.howstuffworks.com/wellness/food-nutrition/facts/usda-sugar-guidelines-ga.htm
http://fnic.nal.usda.gov/dietary-guidance/dietary-reference-intakes/dri-tables
The gubment. USDA, NAS, IOM, etc. If you don't agree with them that's your call, but you know. Science.
Of course I was estimating the 50g number. It depends on your height/weight/age/gender etc. Roughly 50g for an average adult male, or just about 1 can of coke. That is what they recommend you should have in a 24 hour period, no more, to maintain good weight and organ health.
Same thing for Sodium. They recommend no more than 2500mg a day for the same average person.
I'm figuring you also haven't seen the new information put out by the American Heart on sodium where they state that not enough sodium in a person without hypertension can actually have negative effects? The say it's actually higher than 2500.
I think in general we agree on the big stuff... IIFYM and IF, it doesn't bother me that you have all the sugar you want. Or you don't agree with daily recommended allowances. You asked who said and I told you.0 -
Personally I think it depends 1) on how MUCH icing you had; was it a little treat, or basically a meal of icing, and 2) how you eat the rest of the time.
I don't believe in focusing just on macros as micros are just as if not more important for health. If however you ate great the rest of the day (in this case defining great as a way that hit all the macro and micro levels a healthy human needs) then sure, have your icing (if/since it doesn't seem to be something you personally are trying to cut out - processed food, sugar, etc. For some that may be a concern). Treats are all well and fine so long as they don't displace good for you foods that keep you healthy because of the macro and micros they have. Personally unless your calorie goal is super high I don't think there's a lot of room for a lot of treats every day AND hitting all the micros and macros, just cause there are SO MANY micros to hit and most need to come from different foods. But I also think it's about what makes you happy - if treats make your life good then have them.0 -
Thanks for all the great replies. I have definitely mixed up a mug of icing after a rough day before (consider it my shot of whiskey), but it didn't happen today. Btw, the recipe is softened butter, cocoa and icing sugar. Proportions can vary and it still works.
Most of my own opinions on the topic have been expressed by others already (which is exactly what I was hoping for) but I feel remiss in not expressing them at some point so here goes.
I'm interested in health ahead of weight loss, and given that I substituted the carbs in icing carbs for carbs in roasted vegetables, I missed out on some important nutrients, so not a great idea to do with any frequency. I also missed out on the fiber that those vegetables (or any other "healthy" carb) would have provided so I may feel hungry later.
If I don't have "rough days" very often this mug icing thing is probably fine. But it's dangerous territory to use food to destress.
Comparing my icing scenario to Sarah's IIFYM end of day ice cream treat thread, she scheduled it in (mine was reactionary), and it was consumed knowing she had met all her macro AND MICRO goals first.
But...and here is where I may get clobbered...what's the big deal about macros anyway? MFP did a blurb about it a while ago and they suggested that their recommended proportions just had to do with satiation. Are we really just trying to get people to eat a little more protein and a little less carbs (40-30-30 vs 50-30-20)?
If you've already met your micros then adding more won't help. You don't get extra credit. If you're not eating veggies so you can have frosting then that would be an issue for me. However if you've already gotten in your servings of veggies and you skip frosting just so you can eat 500 calories or whatever of extra vegetables, I don't see that as extra benefit.
Macros do serve a purpose beyond satiety though. Protein protects your muscle while you lose weight (and MFP's recommendation is very low); fat helps you absorb nutrients and if you're not getting enough of it all the veggies in the world will not make a difference, because your body won't be able to benefit from them; carbs give you energy, which is important especially if you're working out.
This covers it. Just to add, I set my own protein and fat macros based on Sara's Eat Train Progress guidelines and treat them as a minimum.
I define a "healthy balanced diet" as one that meets macro and micro goals without supplementation - and I measure over a week, not a day. I'm not judging anybody's protein/vitamin - sometimes convenience is a huge factor, but it's not the first place I'd turn.0 -
I define a "healthy balanced diet" as one that meets macro and micro goals without supplementation - and I measure over a week, not a day. I'm not judging anybody's protein/vitamin - sometimes convenience is a huge factor, but it's not the first place I'd turn.
Solid point that I've wanted to make throughout this discussion. Our bodies do not reset at midnight. There is nothing special about the D in RDA except that it's easier for most people (who seldom think about micros in any way) than a RWA.
(Stereotypical 12 year old responses not necessary. Everyone sees the setup. Leave it alone.)0 -
I define a "healthy balanced diet" as one that meets macro and micro goals without supplementation - and I measure over a week, not a day. I'm not judging anybody's protein/vitamin - sometimes convenience is a huge factor, but it's not the first place I'd turn.
Solid point that I've wanted to make throughout this discussion. Our bodies do not reset at midnight. There is nothing special about the D in RDA except that it's easier for most people (who seldom think about micros in any way) than a RWA.
(Stereotypical 12 year old responses not necessary. Everyone sees the setup. Leave it alone.)
I agree completely. I love that the app let's you look at macros and micros weekly. I just had a long look at mine and I see that I am consistently low in iron.0 -
As long as you hit your macros don't worry about it... yes its harder to fit in the all the other macros with a treat but as long as u plan you'll be fine.
Maybe making stuff like POV cake will help curb your cravings... join FB pages like Macro Magic etc....0 -
I define a "healthy balanced diet" as one that meets macro and micro goals without supplementation - and I measure over a week, not a day. I'm not judging anybody's protein/vitamin - sometimes convenience is a huge factor, but it's not the first place I'd turn.
Solid point that I've wanted to make throughout this discussion. Our bodies do not reset at midnight. There is nothing special about the D in RDA except that it's easier for most people (who seldom think about micros in any way) than a RWA.
(Stereotypical 12 year old responses not necessary. Everyone sees the setup. Leave it alone.)
I agree completely. I love that the app let's you look at macros and micros weekly. I just had a long look at mine and I see that I am consistently low in iron.
Me too. Also, calcium. Hence my meal of sardines, wheat thins and kale last night. LOL. My micros look great now and, if there WERE bonus points, I'd be getting them for my vitamin A.0 -
I define a "healthy balanced diet" as one that meets macro and micro goals without supplementation - and I measure over a week, not a day. I'm not judging anybody's protein/vitamin - sometimes convenience is a huge factor, but it's not the first place I'd turn.
Solid point that I've wanted to make throughout this discussion. Our bodies do not reset at midnight. There is nothing special about the D in RDA except that it's easier for most people (who seldom think about micros in any way) than a RWA.
(Stereotypical 12 year old responses not necessary. Everyone sees the setup. Leave it alone.)
I agree completely. I love that the app let's you look at macros and micros weekly. I just had a long look at mine and I see that I am consistently low in iron.
Me too. Also, calcium. Hence my meal of sardines, wheat thins and kale last night. LOL. My micros look great now and, if there WERE bonus points, I'd be getting them for my vitamin A.
Ah, yes, vit A. I wish we could carry that over for a full year as during sweet potato harvest season, I start to look a little orange.0 -
And here I thought it was just the lighting...I define a "healthy balanced diet" as one that meets macro and micro goals without supplementation - and I measure over a week, not a day. I'm not judging anybody's protein/vitamin - sometimes convenience is a huge factor, but it's not the first place I'd turn.
Solid point that I've wanted to make throughout this discussion. Our bodies do not reset at midnight. There is nothing special about the D in RDA except that it's easier for most people (who seldom think about micros in any way) than a RWA.
(Stereotypical 12 year old responses not necessary. Everyone sees the setup. Leave it alone.)
I agree completely. I love that the app let's you look at macros and micros weekly. I just had a long look at mine and I see that I am consistently low in iron.
Me too. Also, calcium. Hence my meal of sardines, wheat thins and kale last night. LOL. My micros look great now and, if there WERE bonus points, I'd be getting them for my vitamin A.
Ah, yes, vit A. I wish we could carry that over for a full year as during sweet potato harvest season, I start to look a little orange.
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how is this still going?
eat the frigging icing and move on.
I eat ice cream almost every night. it makes me happy- it's my life- I get to fit that crap in there however I like- even if it means pie for breakfast.0 -
.what's the big deal about macros anyway?
Hitting protein goals for one is very important...in a deficit of energy, hitting appropriate protein macro goals of 0.8 - 1 gram per Lb of LBM is going to help preserve muscle mass. If you are trying to build muscle this is even more important and getting closer to 1 gram per Lb of LBM becomes increasingly important.
In combination with proper nutrition and not just slugging down mugs of icing, hitting macro goals aids in establishing a balanced and nutritious diet where you also meet your micro needs.
Further, macro ratios affect physique. Someone who consumes a well balanced macro ratio is going to have a different composite than someone who has excessively high carbohydrate intake and low fat and low protein intake, even at the same calorie intake.
Add to that, macro ratios are very important where fitness is concerned. There is no magic number...there is no right or wrong ratio...my ratio is different than a body builder's ratio would be...my ratio is also very different from what a marathon runners optimal ratio would be.
There is far more to IIFYM than just setting some arbitrary ratio of macros and consuming foods within those limitations....it was originally a fitness thing and unfortunately has been somewhat basterdized as a eat all the foodz so long as IIFYM and that simply wasn't the original intent.0 -
.what's the big deal about macros anyway?
Hitting protein goals for one is very important...in a deficit of energy, hitting appropriate protein macro goals of 0.8 - 1 gram per Lb of LBM is going to help preserve muscle mass. If you are trying to build muscle this is even more important and getting closer to 1 gram per Lb of LBM becomes increasingly important.
In combination with proper nutrition and not just slugging down mugs of icing, hitting macro goals aids in establishing a balanced and nutritious diet where you also meet your micro needs.
Further, macro ratios affect physique. Someone who consumes a well balanced macro ratio is going to have a different composite than someone who has excessively high carbohydrate intake and low fat and low protein intake, even at the same calorie intake.
Add to that, macro ratios are very important where fitness is concerned. There is no magic number...there is no right or wrong ratio...my ratio is different than a body builder's ratio would be...my ratio is also very different from what a marathon runners optimal ratio would be.
There is far more to IIFYM than just setting some arbitrary ratio of macros and consuming foods within those limitations....it was originally a fitness thing and unfortunately has been somewhat basterdized as a eat all the foodz so long as IIFYM and that simply wasn't the original intent.
I haven't been able to figure out how to eat all the foodz and fit my macros.0 -
I haven't been able to figure out how to eat all the foodz and fit my macros.
never ending bulk??0 -
Btw, the recipe is softened butter, cocoa and icing sugar.
A buttercream icing is far more of a fat bomb than it is a carb bomb.0 -
I haven't been able to figure out how to eat all the foodz and fit my macros.
never ending bulk??
I guess that would work but might not end up with the results I want. But to maintain or lose, I still haven't figured it out.0 -
losing requires being a little hungry.
Maintenance requires figuring out how to fill your calorie goals with foods you like AND keep you full.0 -
Btw, the recipe is softened butter, cocoa and icing sugar.
A buttercream icing is far more of a fat bomb than it is a carb bomb.
Yeah it is.
Mmmmm buttercream.0 -
Sure as long as it's not every day.
I eat frosting almost daily. My blood work has always been great. I'm not even on the verge of diabetes, I'm on the low end of the BMI scale, and I don't restrict any other foods or over exercise. Granted, I'm young, but still goes to show.0 -
losing requires being a little hungry.
Maintenance requires figuring out how to fill your calorie goals with foods you like AND keep you full.
Was that meant for me?
My joke may have been missed (I'm not very good at that anyway). What I meant was when people say IIFYM is about "eating all the foodz" as in whatever you want (typically meant to mean "unhealthy" foods), regardless of nutritional value as long as IIFYM - I haven't been able to do that. I can fit in one or two "bad" food in my day but the rest of my food ends up having to be lean protein, veggies, etc, ie "healthy" foods to balance my macros and meet my calorie goal.0 -
Are you asking okay or not okay in terms of weight loss, health, choice of sweet, whether or not you should eat icing from a mug?
Or are you just asking us to judge ok or not okay and give our reasoning why?
Any and all. Just looking to explore the topic.
I'm not sure what the topic is honestly. You can't judge the health of a persons diet by one snack/dessert. You say it met your macros, but are you macros set appropriately for you lifestyle? You were slightly under calorie goal, but is your calorie goal reasonable for healthy weight loss? Did you also meet your micros? Did you get enough fiber? Enough fluids?0 -
Are you asking okay or not okay in terms of weight loss, health, choice of sweet, whether or not you should eat icing from a mug?
Or are you just asking us to judge ok or not okay and give our reasoning why?
Any and all. Just looking to explore the topic.
I'm not sure what the topic is honestly. You can't judge the health of a persons diet by one snack/dessert. You say it met your macros, but are you macros set appropriately for you lifestyle? You were slightly under calorie goal, but is your calorie goal reasonable for healthy weight loss? Did you also meet your micros? Did you get enough fiber? Enough fluids?
I think you just succinctly summarized the topic.0 -
losing requires being a little hungry.
Maintenance requires figuring out how to fill your calorie goals with foods you like AND keep you full.
Was that meant for me?
My joke may have been missed (I'm not very good at that anyway). What I meant was when people say IIFYM is about "eating all the foodz" as in whatever you want (typically meant to mean "unhealthy" foods), regardless of nutritional value as long as IIFYM - I haven't been able to do that. I can fit in one or two "bad" food in my day but the rest of my food ends up having to be lean protein, veggies, etc, ie "healthy" foods to balance my macros and meet my calorie goal.
I thought you might have been making a joke-point but wasn't sure. I agree. Nobody is going to be meeting any macros with a diet consisting of only donuts. Even Jonnythan eats 5 servings of vegetables a day.0 -
losing requires being a little hungry.
Maintenance requires figuring out how to fill your calorie goals with foods you like AND keep you full.
Was that meant for me?
My joke may have been missed (I'm not very good at that anyway). What I meant was when people say IIFYM is about "eating all the foodz" as in whatever you want (typically meant to mean "unhealthy" foods), regardless of nutritional value as long as IIFYM - I haven't been able to do that. I can fit in one or two "bad" food in my day but the rest of my food ends up having to be lean protein, veggies, etc, ie "healthy" foods to balance my macros and meet my calorie goal.
I thought you might have been making a joke-point but wasn't sure. I agree. Nobody is going to be meeting any macros with a diet consisting of only donuts. Even Jonnythan eats 5 servings of vegetables a day.
In the interest of illustrating how someone can meet their macros while still eating food that is sometimes commonly referred to as unhealthy, I'd like to present this thread for consideration.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1258212-30-day-gelato-ice-cream-cleanse-diet
There are a wide variety of different posters. Some are bulking; some are cutting; some are simply maintaining. Some have progressive strength training; some do mostly cardio; some don't exercise at all.
ETA: this thread rolled multiple times. Comprehensive ice cream reviews included.0 -
losing requires being a little hungry.
Maintenance requires figuring out how to fill your calorie goals with foods you like AND keep you full.
Was that meant for me?
My joke may have been missed (I'm not very good at that anyway). What I meant was when people say IIFYM is about "eating all the foodz" as in whatever you want (typically meant to mean "unhealthy" foods), regardless of nutritional value as long as IIFYM - I haven't been able to do that. I can fit in one or two "bad" food in my day but the rest of my food ends up having to be lean protein, veggies, etc, ie "healthy" foods to balance my macros and meet my calorie goal.
I thought you might have been making a joke-point but wasn't sure. I agree. Nobody is going to be meeting any macros with a diet consisting of only donuts. Even Jonnythan eats 5 servings of vegetables a day.
Indeed. I thought it was a joke- then I wasn't sure.
but yes- balance- AND eating all the foodz? lol
I heart mai veggies- I feel like people think that when you say IIFYM- all we are doing is the twinkie diet- and anyone who is serious about apperence and performance moderates their "treats" and has pretty accurate macros'. It just SOUNDS like all we do is eat ice cream.
(although if I could eat steak- sauteed zucchini- and ice cream all the time- I would)0 -
losing requires being a little hungry.
Maintenance requires figuring out how to fill your calorie goals with foods you like AND keep you full.
Was that meant for me?
My joke may have been missed (I'm not very good at that anyway). What I meant was when people say IIFYM is about "eating all the foodz" as in whatever you want (typically meant to mean "unhealthy" foods), regardless of nutritional value as long as IIFYM - I haven't been able to do that. I can fit in one or two "bad" food in my day but the rest of my food ends up having to be lean protein, veggies, etc, ie "healthy" foods to balance my macros and meet my calorie goal.
I thought you might have been making a joke-point but wasn't sure. I agree. Nobody is going to be meeting any macros with a diet consisting of only donuts. Even Jonnythan eats 5 servings of vegetables a day.
In the interest of illustrating how someone can meet their macros while still eating food that is sometimes commonly referred to as unhealthy, I'd like to present this thread for consideration.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1258212-30-day-gelato-ice-cream-cleanse-diet
There are a wide variety of different posters. Some are bulking; some are cutting; some are simply maintaining. Some have progressive strength training; some do mostly cardio; some don't exercise at all.
ETA: this thread rolled multiple times. Comprehensive ice cream reviews included.
I mean nothing but "unhealthy" food and hitting macros. I was address the point I bolded in an earlier post
"There is far more to IIFYM than just setting some arbitrary ratio of macros and consuming foods within those limitations....it was originally a fitness thing and unfortunately has been somewhat basterdized as a eat all the foodz so long as IIFYM and that simply wasn't the original intent."
I didn't check a lot of diaries in that thread but I did look at the OP's (and some of the others are familiar to me as well). While they are eating food that a lot of people would consider "unhealthy", the majority of their intake also includes veggies, fruit, lean protein for the rest of the day, which was my point. I can't "eat all the foodz" ie all unhealthy food and hit my macros. I can include some but the rest of my food ends up being pretty healthy by most people's standards. I hit my micros without trying as well.0 -
losing requires being a little hungry.
Maintenance requires figuring out how to fill your calorie goals with foods you like AND keep you full.
Was that meant for me?
My joke may have been missed (I'm not very good at that anyway). What I meant was when people say IIFYM is about "eating all the foodz" as in whatever you want (typically meant to mean "unhealthy" foods), regardless of nutritional value as long as IIFYM - I haven't been able to do that. I can fit in one or two "bad" food in my day but the rest of my food ends up having to be lean protein, veggies, etc, ie "healthy" foods to balance my macros and meet my calorie goal.
I thought you might have been making a joke-point but wasn't sure. I agree. Nobody is going to be meeting any macros with a diet consisting of only donuts. Even Jonnythan eats 5 servings of vegetables a day.
In the interest of illustrating how someone can meet their macros while still eating food that is sometimes commonly referred to as unhealthy, I'd like to present this thread for consideration.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1258212-30-day-gelato-ice-cream-cleanse-diet
There are a wide variety of different posters. Some are bulking; some are cutting; some are simply maintaining. Some have progressive strength training; some do mostly cardio; some don't exercise at all.
ETA: this thread rolled multiple times. Comprehensive ice cream reviews included.
I mean nothing but "unhealthy" food and hitting macros. I was address the point I bolded in an earlier post
"There is far more to IIFYM than just setting some arbitrary ratio of macros and consuming foods within those limitations....it was originally a fitness thing and unfortunately has been somewhat basterdized as a eat all the foodz so long as IIFYM and that simply wasn't the original intent."
I didn't check a lot of diaries in that thread but I did look at the OP's (and some of the others are familiar to me as well). While they are eating food that a lot of people would consider "unhealthy", the majority of their intake also includes veggies, fruit, lean protein for the rest of the day, which was my point. I can't "eat all the foodz" ie all unhealthy food and hit my macros. I can include some but the rest of my food ends up being pretty healthy by most people's standards. I hit my micros without trying as well.
QFT
I was in the ice cream thread all the way through and now I'm doing the current "eat all the sweets" one. I can work in 2 servings sometimes. But generally, especially on a rest day, it's pretty limited.0
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