Metabolic Damage? Low RMR

_Terrapin_

Thanks for all of the replies!! Does anyone know where to find a comprehensive plan for metabolic recovery? Also I am going to get a physical trainer for a while as I am clueless about weight training aside from doing some reps with weights or using the machines. What kind of questions would I ask to make sure I find a trainer who is experienced in metabolism issues?

So, first and foremost get blood work completed to rule out 1. Diabetes and 2. Hypothyroidism

If neither are present, then yes, metabolic recovery is possible, and relatively quickly according to most of the above links provided; somewhere between 6-10 weeks. Once you know your maintenance number, weekly increases of 100 calories are again the standard according to the links above.

The link I provided about the 51 year old training for triatholons and marathons revealed their total caloric intake was around 1,000. If you read their training regime you'll gain a better understanding of what happened and why.

As far as questions to ask a trainer: #1 If you(OP) want to continue cardio and are in metabolic repair, what is 'safe' to do during this period. #2 Frequency and amount of caloric intake until metabolic damage has been repaired #3 Do they have a way to measure this effectively? #4 Blood work done when and why

Hope this helps.

yopeeps025

High protein and Lift weights. Shorter but serious workouts. Ditch stuff like running and cardio. Just lift weights with less rest if you need to get that feel.

Correct would you say frequent eating also raise metabolic rate.?

sheltol

Thanks for all of the replies!! Does anyone know where to find a comprehensive plan for metabolic recovery? Also I am going to get a physical trainer for a while as I am clueless about weight training aside from doing some reps with weights or using the machines. What kind of questions would I ask to make sure I find a trainer who is experienced in metabolism issues?

Comprehensive plan (as that study showed).

Eat at maintenance for months.

There's really not much to it. Don't try to lose. And this is not potential maintenance that calculators give you, because those aren't valid right now with suppressed maintenance.
This is based on your actual results. With current eating level apparently being maintenance.

As metabolism heals, you then eat more.

Then again, since you don't get lab measured TDEE all the time, and even that RMR test frequently might be overkill, just eat slightly more on constant basis.

I already laid it out in my post above, might reread. You merely need to know how much in total you've been eating for past month.
And then start using MFP correctly.

Someone else posted a link that discussed one person's test case and specifics too, must have missed it. It was on exrx.net site.


Don't even try to get a trainer in to nutrition stuff, that would be like asking your car mechanic about noise your dishwasher is making.
Use them for what they are there for, exercise. The amount of myth's and disproven bro-science I've overheard from trainers at the gym is incredible. Even those that did get in to metabolism and nutrition studies years ago - have not kept recent and don't have to. Unless a personal hobby. But how would you know.
So just avoid the topic with them and huge grain of salt if they get in to it.

But good plan getting help on lifting.
But instead of just adding more exercise for a body already under stress - you need to back off other exercise - trade, don't add.
Actually, decrease.

I totally agree with the comment about not getting a personal trainer involved with nutriton issues. There are excellent trainers with advanced knowledge of nutrition and then there are those who studied 9 months at home and got a certificate. There can be a huge difference in edication and experience. I would recommend seeking out a sports nutritionist. Try a sports care rehab facility. Some great advice from a couple people here though on what you need to do.

yopeeps025

http://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/truth-about-metabolic-damage

heybales

High protein and Lift weights. Shorter but serious workouts. Ditch stuff like running and cardio. Just lift weights with less rest if you need to get that feel.

Correct would you say frequent eating also raise metabolic rate.?

No. Same raise in metabolic rate to process food if done in several big meals or many small meals.

That merely assists compliance, or helps if diabetic or pre issue exists, but not normally.

heybales

You can educate yourself by googling Layne Norton+Metabolic Damage. He has several youtube videos on the subject. He has a doctorate in Nutritional Sciences, he trains bodybuilders, and was a professional bodybuilder himself.

The amount of cardio you are doing combined with the low caloric diet can really wreck havoc on your body. Watch the videos but you basically need to do is up your caloric intake slowly over a period of time. In one video he mentions that the repair can take nearly as long as the amount of time you've been on a lot of cardio with limited calories.

It's a tough cycle to break when society is so programed to eat less to lose weight. And honestly, you may gain weight initially and you need to trust in what you are doing. Best of luck to you.

Watched a video where he said some people were doing 2 hour cardio but they were essentially no burning any calories doing so. Does not compute for me.

No extra calories compared to where they would have been without.

At the start they would have been, but the stressed body made adjusts, slowed down all other daily activity so burning less then, got more metabolically efficient on everything.

So the workout might have burned say 1000 calories, but left the person so wasted rest the day, they didn't do a normal 500 calories worth of moving around they would have done.

So the workout only added 500 to the day.

And while that slow effect was happening, body also made everything more efficient, or slowed down some stuff.

By the end state, in essence, compared to before - the exercise was adding nothing to the day.

heybales

Thanks so much for the response. So you said eat at maintenance - and since I know my real RMR is 100 instead of 1260 like the calculators say I would eat at the maintenance that they gave me at the hospital - which was 1008 to 1308. How long do I eat at this before staring to increase the calories? Also can I do any cardio at all during this period? Or is there a type of cardio (like say rowing) that includes strength training. I suffer from anxiety disorder and the cardio has been the only thing that helped in the past.

Also when people say strength training are they just talking about lifting weights or is it other things like HIIT or plyometrics?

HIIT is as close to a lifting response as you'll get from cardio. It's for cardio only folks that don't want to lift to get close to same benefit.

But do the real thing, skip the HIIT, actually lift.


You are misunderstanding some terms.

Your BMR as calculated on age, weight, height could be about 1260 likely.

They measured your RMR around 1000.

RMR is 150-250 above BMR.
So your actual BMR is even lower than 1000.

Your maintenance is NOT going to be barely above RMR. Which is what you burn burn resting all day exactly like in the test.

Don't go off estimates, go off what you have actually been eating.
Look at your average the past month. Skip days you didn't log because of binges or similar.

Eat 100 more than that.

For cardio, do it after the lifting which is 3 x weekly, for upwards of 40 min if calm, 20 min if you just need intense for anxiety.
Walking only for inbetween days.

The strength training needs to be progressive overload routine. It needs to be heavy for you for 3 sets and 8 - 12 reps, such that the last few reps of last set are very difficult.

That is the ONLY way of telling the body you want to get stronger. Eventually existing muscle won't be able to keep going heavier, so more must be made.

So if the trainer wants to do these silly light weights balancing on a ball or such, ask to learn to do free weights, don't even waste time on what many do as standard intro exercises.
You need to be using the biggest muscles first in compound moves involving the whole body.
If they start with triceps and biceps, tell them they are about to be fired and get serious.

12by311

High protein and Lift weights. Shorter but serious workouts. Ditch stuff like running and cardio. Just lift weights with less rest if you need to get that feel.

Correct would you say frequent eating also raise metabolic rate.?

No. Same raise in metabolic rate to process food if done in several big meals or many small meals.

That merely assists compliance, or helps if diabetic or pre issue exists, but not normally.

Just want to quote this because your response is worded so very well.

12by311

I'm helping my wife with this right now. Seems to be going great.

The overall plan (regular strength training is part of the workout plan):

Step 1 - Jump to just under what your maintenance calculates to be. She had been barely losing 0.5lb/wk for a few months, which was well under what is expected for her body (and it notably dropped over time), she had been cutting a long time (>1 yr). So step 1 was to raise cals +200.

Step 2 - Start walking maintenance up. From that starting point, each week she's been tacking on +50 cals. Has had a recomp effect throughout; some of her most dramatic week to week changes on the tape happened early on in this process (though not seen on the scale). She's up to +500 total now, right about back to normal for her ht/wt, no sign yet of any weight gain whatsoever.

Step 3 - Once there is a clear sign of some weight gain (scale going up more than normal fluctuations AND measurements starting to increase, even slightly), the weekly cal increases are going to be dropped to +25.

This is a time consuming process, but if you are regularly strength training, expect a fairly strong recomp effect and if you stick with it you can have your metabolism running extremely hot, so that the fat just melts away with ease when you try to cut once again.

Reverse dieting like this is basically microbulking; bulking where the goal is metabolism gain with as little corresponding muscle/fat gain as possible. Regular bulking has the same effect; spend some time bulking and you eventually have to eat like a lion to gain anything whatsoever, but it also comes with muscle and fat gain.

Great to hear about her experience and progress with this. Good info.

jsmommy1999

I can't believe the amount of great information that people have been giving me on this subject - I really can't thank you enough!! Not to keep asking questions here but I have been looking over my food diary and it looks like my "net" calories have been somewhere around 1000-1200. However this is after subtracting exercise which I have been giving myself about 500 calories for (based on heart rate calculators). No doubt I am not really burning that much due to my body's current status.

How do I calculate calories burned for exercise? If I am not burning optimally I am probably not getting the most calories out of my workouts either. And if I am doing just strength training do I get calories back for that or do I have to lift on 1100 calories a day?

Sorry, this is very confusing.

Thanks,
Ann

heybales

I can't believe the amount of great information that people have been giving me on this subject - I really can't thank you enough!! Not to keep asking questions here but I have been looking over my food diary and it looks like my "net" calories have been somewhere around 1000-1200. However this is after subtracting exercise which I have been giving myself about 500 calories for (based on heart rate calculators). No doubt I am not really burning that much due to my body's current status.

How do I calculate calories burned for exercise? If I am not burning optimally I am probably not getting the most calories out of my workouts either. And if I am doing just strength training do I get calories back for that or do I have to lift on 1100 calories a day?

You want to eat correctly for your amount of activity.
You want to take a reasonable deficit from what you burn daily to lose weight.

Do you burn extra calories doing your strength training compared to doing nothing?

Not that confusing, just think it out.

MFP has an entry for strength training. As long as you aren't waiting 5 min between lifts for equipment, or interruptions talking, that calorie count may seem low compared to equal time cardio, but that is very true. It does include the 1-3 min rests between sets, but not much else. And vigorous is heavy for you.
Log it - eat it.

You are correct, your total daily burn, TDEE, is not as high as might otherwise be indicated. The actual burn for the exercise, if weight and intensity remain the same, is the same. But your body compensates by slowing other things down, like RMR, spontaneous movement, higher level metabolic functions (grow hair, nails, skin, ect).
Normally it'll slow down the exercise too, so while it may feel like pushing yourself just as hard, the HR will be lower and the pace/intensity will be lower.

And actually, you are burning optimally, more efficient than before actually. You want to get back to inefficient metabolism.

And might reread many of the responses, if you want to heal - you eat more, much more, not your RMR.
I think you missed some major points of understanding.

cwoyto123

Slowly ramp up calories and exercise.