Is too much whey protein hazardous?

Hazelnut79

Protein at high levels can cause some kidney issues, but at 60g, you're 101% fine. Heck, you'd probably be fine at 120g. Remember that protein uptake and utilization is maximized during the 30-45min post workout. This is a time when your body will process and absorb the protein and associated amino acids instead of converting them to waste. This being said, you should not take all 60g in one shot. Ideally, take one immediately post workout and one post bedtime. Sleep is when your body rebuilds from the workout and the extra protein will help to prevent your body from entering a catabolic state.

There is no "magic window" to consume your protein....or anything else for that matter. Please refrain from passing on misinformation. There's enough of it going around as it is.

Results of research on this is actually mixed - there are definitely studies that suggest that timing of supplementation is important to muscle protein synthesis, but there are also a few that have found no differences. I don't study protein synthesis, but I am an exercise physiologist, and I made a jerk of myself arguing with a non-scientist about this (I claimed timing doesn't make a difference) and finding out that things aren't as black and white as I thought once I looked it up later.

Turns out, as with many areas of research, there is a lot of nuance and gray areas that need to be examined more. I've posted a few studies/reviews below where the full text is available without a subscription, for anyone who is interested. Methods and designs vary (some are looking at elderly, some young, some men, some at hypertrophy or strength, others at actual molecular indicators of synthesis), which probably has some part in explaining why they are not all coming to the same conclusion.

The first few links are to articles that have found some sort of an effect of timing of protein ingestion, but the last link is pretty interesting because it is a meta-analysis and finds that once potential confounding factors are taken into account, there is not a significant effect of the "treatment" (e.g. consuming protein right before/after working out) on the variables they're looking at, but if you look at the figures 1-3, you can see that there is a bit of a trend, but the variation between the studies swamps it out. I guess what I'm reading from these is that the answer to the question "Does timing of protein ingestion matter?" is "Sometimes." Not particularly satisfying as it makes it hard apply the results to real life.

If anybody has knows of any other peer-reviewed research that helps explain the variation we see in these studies, I'd be interested in links!


http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-7793.2001.00301.x/full

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayFulltext?type=1&fid=8001846&jid=PNS&volumeId=70&issueId=01&aid=8001844

http://jp.physoc.org/content/591/9/2319.full.pdf#page=1&view=FitH

http://classic.ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/2/E197.full

http://www.jissn.com/content/pdf/1550-2783-10-53.pdf

EvgeniZyntx

Protein at high levels can cause some kidney issues, but at 60g, you're 101% fine. Heck, you'd probably be fine at 120g. Remember that protein uptake and utilization is maximized during the 30-45min post workout. This is a time when your body will process and absorb the protein and associated amino acids instead of converting them to waste. This being said, you should not take all 60g in one shot. Ideally, take one immediately post workout and one post bedtime. Sleep is when your body rebuilds from the workout and the extra protein will help to prevent your body from entering a catabolic state.

There is no "magic window" to consume your protein....or anything else for that matter. Please refrain from passing on misinformation. There's enough of it going around as it is.

Results of research on this is actually mixed - there are definitely studies that suggest that timing of supplementation is important to muscle protein synthesis, but there are also a few that have found no differences. I don't study protein synthesis, but I am an exercise physiologist, and I made a jerk of myself arguing with a non-scientist about this (I claimed timing doesn't make a difference) and finding out that things aren't as black and white as I thought once I looked it up later.

Turns out, as with many areas of research, there is a lot of nuance and gray areas that need to be examined more. I've posted a few studies/reviews below where the full text is available without a subscription, for anyone who is interested. Methods and designs vary (some are looking at elderly, some young, some men, some at hypertrophy or strength, others at actual molecular indicators of synthesis), which probably has some part in explaining why they are not all coming to the same conclusion.

The first few links are to articles that have found some sort of an effect of timing of protein ingestion, but the last link is pretty interesting because it is a meta-analysis and finds that once potential confounding factors are taken into account, there is not a significant effect of the "treatment" (e.g. consuming protein right before/after working out) on the variables they're looking at, but if you look at the figures 1-3, you can see that there is a bit of a trend, but the variation between the studies swamps it out. I guess what I'm reading from these is that the answer to the question "Does timing of protein ingestion matter?" is "Sometimes." Not particularly satisfying as it makes it hard apply the results to real life.

If anybody has knows of any other peer-reviewed research that helps explain the variation we see in these studies, I'd be interested in links!


http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-7793.2001.00301.x/full

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayFulltext?type=1&fid=8001846&jid=PNS&volumeId=70&issueId=01&aid=8001844

http://jp.physoc.org/content/591/9/2319.full.pdf#page=1&view=FitH

http://classic.ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/2/E197.full

http://www.jissn.com/content/pdf/1550-2783-10-53.pdf

After review of a lot of articles, I have the impression that while there might be a timing window in maximizing protein uptake, in reality those pesky longer studies show no real significant impact.

In other words, unless you are an elite athelete trying to squeeze every drop out of your protocol, the most important element is to get enough protein and focus on the important factors like a solid exercise plan, sleep and consistency.

ImaWaterBender

I was consuming a lot of muscle milk along with taking creatine. I ended up with a horrific case of diverticulitis. Now I'm also sensitive to milk. I don't know which it was that caused a huge amount of problems but I try to be more moderate with my protein intake now I don't take creatine and I don't consume any dairy anymore.

davidgore88

Say for example you weigh 180. Then eat 180g of protein to gain weight and build musle

heybales

Say for example you weigh 180. Then eat 180g of protein to gain weight and build musle

Way overkill, studies posted above already that show amount of protein being consumed was plenty, or they reference other studies.

You actually need less protein when gaining, then when dieting and trying to retain.

FromHereOnOut

I think your questions been answered already, but just wanted to add some info. Whey has been found to help improve immune function. I consider that to be an extra bonus and I have found it to help with immunity in my own case. I would expect this is especially helpful for people who are dieting or may be in a phase of high training.

emtjmac

Kidneys. Don't take more than recommended.

supertracylynn

Deadly farts.

mjudd1990

Doctors are trained to look at creatinine and BUN as indicators of kidney function because it is your kidney that gets rid of these substances. BUN is blood urea nitrogen and comes from the breakdown of amino acids, and creatinine is waste product of muscle. Years ago, before weightlifting was so mainstream and people ate a much lower amount of protein these levels tended to stay lower and thus the only way they became elevated was due to renal failure.

However, people that workout, lift weights, and eat more protein will have a higher BUN (increased protein intake=increased amino acids that need to be metabolized) and a higher creatinine (more muscle mass=more muscular waste products). I think the whole stigma of protein hurting your kidneys came from doctors simply following protocols they have always been taught and not taking factors like this into account. So in essence, excess protein and muscle makes it "look" like your kidney function may be worse but in actuality it's more likely that they are just dealing with a higher load of metabolites. I'd be much more concerned about hypertension, hyperlipidemia, hyperglycemia causing kidney problems than I would be about protein intake.

Unknown

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Edmond_Dantes

Doctors are trained to look at creatinine and BUN as indicators of kidney function because it is your kidney that gets rid of these substances. BUN is blood urea nitrogen and comes from the breakdown of amino acids, and creatinine is waste product of muscle. Years ago, before weightlifting was so mainstream and people ate a much lower amount of protein these levels tended to stay lower and thus the only way they became elevated was due to renal failure.

However, people that workout, lift weights, and eat more protein will have a higher BUN (increased protein intake=increased amino acids that need to be metabolized) and a higher creatinine (more muscle mass=more muscular waste products). I think the whole stigma of protein hurting your kidneys came from doctors simply following protocols they have always been taught and not taking factors like this into account. So in essence, excess protein and muscle makes it "look" like your kidney function may be worse but in actuality it's more likely that they are just dealing with a higher load of metabolites. I'd be much more concerned about hypertension, hyperlipidemia, hyperglycemia causing kidney problems than I would be about protein intake.

You are exactly correct.
As you stated, creatinine levels are looked at as a marker of kidney function, but they paint an incomplete picture and are surrogate markers. Ideally, they would be correlated with a patient's muscle mass/protein level for example.
A creatinine level of 1.1 for a 90-year-old woman with no muscle mass likely implies impaired renal function, whereas a creatinine level of 1.1 is usually considered normal and would certainly be normal in someone with a good amount of muscle mass. I see people in practice who have an ultra-low creatinine level, but that does not mean they have superfunctioning kidneys, rather it is more likely they have little muscle mass.
If you are interested in reading more look at http://cjasn.asnjournals.org/content/3/2/348.full

"Serum creatinine can be affected by age, gender, ethnicity, dietary protein intake, and lean mass and may remain within the reference range despite marked renal impairment in patients with low muscle mass. Consequently, the sensitivity of serum creatinine for the early detection of kidney disease is poor and not a good predictor when analyzing the elderly (3,4). Conversely, theoretically, serum creatinine may be falsely increased in individuals with higher muscle mass and normal renal function."

So, in summary, eat your protein! (And ignore these broscience myths about hurting your kidneys. How some people really think that eating a steak or a couple chicken breasts causes kidney failure is beyond ridiculous.)

Salasel

Drink water lots of it goal should be about a gallon a day. Also make sure you have enough fiber. A High protein diet can cause constipation.

Unknown

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rogerOb1

Protein at high levels can cause some kidney issues, but at 60g, you're 101% fine. Heck, you'd probably be fine at 120g. Remember that protein uptake and utilization is maximized during the 30-45min post workout. This is a time when your body will process and absorb the protein and associated amino acids instead of converting them to waste. This being said, you should not take all 60g in one shot. Ideally, take one immediately post workout and one post bedtime. Sleep is when your body rebuilds from the workout and the extra protein will help to prevent your body from entering a catabolic state.

A post-bedtime shake? Why do you want him to drown?

I lol'ed

engelsinger

I was consuming a lot of muscle milk along with taking creatine. I ended up with a horrific case of diverticulitis. Now I'm also sensitive to milk. I don't know which it was that caused a huge amount of problems but I try to be more moderate with my protein intake now I don't take creatine and I don't consume any dairy anymore.

engelsinger

I too was consuming mass amounts of protein shakes and ended up in the hospital with diverticulitis/ peritonitis. I had to have surgery and a portion of my large intestines removed. I am told it is rare to have this at my age so I too am wondering if there is a correlation between protein shakes and diverticulitis. Diverticulosis (i found out after the fact) runs in my family too which is probably a contributing factor. I am 33 years old, 5'6 and about 120 pounds. I got my weight down from 150 by walking and running a lot, pilates and following Victoria Secret's Adriana Lima's nine day protein shake diet. The problem was I stayed on it completely for about 40 days and then on and off again. I drank about 9 to 12 100 calorie protein shakes all day and that was it. I would mix in tea and coffee and vegetable broth now and then. I also drank water, but probably not enough. I never do. It worked great (or so I thought) and it kept my hunger at bay. Well fast forward a few months and one day I was fine and the next I had terrible stomach pain (swollen belly making me look pregnant too) and ended up in the hospital. I think a Nature Valley Sweet and Salty Almond bar that I ate the day before could have offset it because I heard it is usually a piece of food such as a seed or nut that gets caught and causes the diverticula to become inflamed. (My dad's uncle died of Diverticulitis and they found out it was a seed that caused his inflamation after the biopsy) . I also probably use too much neutra sweet in my diet. Its a bad habit I just can't break myself of. My question is, was it the protein shakes that caused me to have Diverticulosis in the first place, or neutra sweet or genetics or all of the above. I am vegetarian also and maybe I eat too much ruffage? I dunno :-/ I feel like there are still too many unknowns and it makes me wonder how many others there are like me wondering this very same question.

engelsinger

Also, I tried different protein shakes when I was on my diet. Muscle milk was one of them and I found out today that it contains hazardous metals in it. That could also be a factor to both of our Diverticulitis situations.

Unknown

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hookilau

I suppose if you had a bunch of tubs of it stacked up on they fell on you it could crush you. Other than that, realistically, no.

Death by protein!

JoRocka

Also, I tried different protein shakes when I was on my diet. Muscle milk was one of them and I found out today that it contains hazardous metals in it. That could also be a factor to both of our Diverticulitis situations.

lulwut??

Tickwomp

I once had a urine test that had way too much protein in it. The doctor acted like it was serious, so yes- you can have too much. It will strain your kidneys and yadayadayada.

I don't think you'll get there. I was taking in over 2 grams per pound of body weight back then.

ahoier

It shouldn't be a problem, as long as you space it out.......say, 1 in the morning, and 1 at night.......

I know, I've "overdone it" before......and caused myself to regurgitate.....lol. Body just wasn't read for the excess apparently....That, and I took it down with 2% milk :X hehe.

Easywider

How long is a piece of string?

It really varies from person to person, simple as that. I've been slamming at-least 50-100g's of whey on average for the past 5 years and my blood values (full metabolic, liver, lipid, cholest. pannel done semi-annually for health insurance) are well within the normal ranges.

CipherZero

Protein at high levels can cause some kidney issues...

What would a high level be??

I've read one study that was 400g a day with no issues detected.

independant2406

This is really a question for your doctor and not internet randos. But, FWIW, here's my anecdotal evidence.There is evidence that prolonged excess protein consumption can damage the kidneys. My husband had this happen to him, but he was probably consuming 250+ grams/day. If you are worried about it, it's a matter of a simple blood panel which your doctor can perform at regular intervals, say every 3 months or so, to monitor your creatinine levels.

Yaaaaay anecdotes

Protein and amino acids for athletes. J Sports Sci. 2004 Jan;22(1):65-79.
www.uni.edu/dolgener/Advanced_Sport.../protein_intake.pdf

Since there is evidence that protein intakes above the RDA may be beneficial to athletes, a risk–benefit analysis may be useful. An important consideration is the potential harm that may arise from elevated protein intakes. There is little research into the maximum tolerable protein intake in healthy individuals. It has been suggested that excessive protein intakes may increase calcium loss, thus affecting bone health. However, since a major portion of bone is protein, excessive protein does not appear to influence bone health. High protein intakes have been suggested to pose a risk for the kidneys but, in healthy individuals with no underlying kidney disease (presumably most elite athletes), there is no evidence for harm to kidneys with higher intakes. Certainly, it would be detrimental for an athlete to consume excess protein at the expense of other nutrients required to support the necessary level of training and competition. There is a suggestion that intakes greater than 40% of total energy intake might be the upper limit. Protein intakes greater than 40% may limit intake of fat and/or carbohydrates, thus compromising the benefits of these nutrients. However, given the high energy intakes of most elite athletes, protein intakes higher than 40% are unlikely in most. Even a small female restricting energy intake and consuming only 1500 kcal would need to consume 150 g of protein to reach 40%.

High-Protein Weight Loss Diets and Purported Adverse Effects: Where is the Evidence? Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition 2004, 1:45-51 doi:10.1186/1550-2783-1-1-45
http://www.jissn.com/content/1/1/45#B4

Indeed, the recent study Dawson-Hughes et al. did not confirm the perception that increased dietary protein results in urinary calcium loss.[36] According to Dawson-Hughes et al., "Theconstellation of findings that meat supplements containing 55 g/d protein, when exchanged for carbohydrate did not significantlyincrease urinary calcium excretion and were associated withhigher levels of serum IGF-I and lower levels of the bone resorption marker, N-telopeptide, together with a lack of significant correlationof urinary N-telopeptide with urinary calcium excretion in thehigh protein group (in contrast to the low protein) point tothe possibility that higher meat intake may potentially improvebone mass in many older men and women."

Finally, the cross-cultural and population studies that showed a positive association between animal-protein intake and hip fracture risk did not consider other lifestyle or dietary factors that may protect or increase the risk of fracture.[35] It is of some interest that the author of the most cited paper favoring the earlier hypothesis that high-protein intake promotes osteoporosis no longer believes that protein is harmful to bone.[34] In fact, he concluded that the balance of the evidence seems to indicate the opposite.

Despite its role in nitrogen excretion, there are presently no data in the scientific literature demonstrating the healthy kidney will be damaged by the increased demands of protein consumed in quantities above the Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA). Furthermore, real world examples support this contention since kidney problems are nonexistent in the bodybuilding community in which high-protein intake has been the norm for over half a century.[3] Recently, Walser published comprehensive review on protein intake and renal function, which states: "it is clear that protein restriction does not prevent decline in renal function with age, and, in fact, is the major cause of that decline. A better way to prevent the decline would be to increase protein intake. there is no reason to restrict protein intake in healthy individuals in order to protect the kidney."[4]

Dietary protein intake and renal function. Nutrition & Metabolism 2005, 2:25 doi:10.1186/1743-7075-2-25
http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/2/1/25

Conclusion

Although excessive protein intake remains a health concern in individuals with pre-existing renal disease, the literature lacks significant research demonstrating a link between protein intake and the initiation or progression of renal disease in healthy individuals. More importantly, evidence suggests that protein-induced changes in renal function are likely a normal adaptative mechanism well within the functional limits of a healthy kidney. Without question, long-term studies are needed to clarify the scant evidence currently available regarding this relationship. At present, there is not sufficient proof to warrant public health directives aimed at restricting dietary protein intake in healthy adults for the purpose of preserving renal function.[

Fantastic post! :happy:

indianwin2001

Protein at high levels can cause some kidney issues, but at 60g, you're 101% fine. Heck, you'd probably be fine at 120g. Remember that protein uptake and utilization is maximized during the 30-45min post workout. This is a time when your body will process and absorb the protein and associated amino acids instead of converting them to waste. This being said, you should not take all 60g in one shot. Ideally, take one immediately post workout and one post bedtime. Sleep is when your body rebuilds from the workout and the extra protein will help to prevent your body from entering a catabolic state.
[/quote

100% agree

Ms_J1

I'm 5'0" and in November of last year, I weighed 236 lbs. Today, I weigh 120 lbs. For the last nine months, I've been living on whey protein because my diet is low carb and low fat (doctor supervised diet). I'm required to get between 80-140 grams of protein a day, depending on my level of physical activity, just to maintain my muscle mass. On average, I eat 20-25 grams of whey protein 4 times a day along with a lean meat, a serving of a non-starch vegetable, and a serving of fruit twice a day. I haven't had any problems eating so much protein and my recent blood work came back great.

The only difference I see between me and the OP is that the OP is trying to gain muscle weight (a high protein diet without reducing carbs) and I'm trying to lose body fat weight (a high protein low carb diet).

SweatLikeDog

To answer the second broscience claim that you need to eat protein 30-45 min post workout. Not much to say here, there has never been any studies to show this is true, at all. It's just one of those rumors that stuck around. Eat it when it fits you.

Whooomp, there it is...................Cribb & Hayes 2006

Effects of supplement timing and resistance exercise on skeletal muscle hypertrophy

32 gram protein shake before/ 32 gram protein shake after resistance training = more lean body mass gain than same shake taken AM&PM


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17095924

PURPOSE:
Some studies report greater muscle hypertrophy during resistance exercise (RE) training from supplement timing (i.e., the strategic consumption of protein and carbohydrate before and/or after each workout). However, no studies have examined whether this strategy provides greater muscle hypertrophy or strength development compared with supplementation at other times during the day. The purpose of this study was to examine the effects of supplement timing compared with supplementation in the hours not close to the workout on muscle-fiber hypertrophy, strength, and body composition during a 10-wk RE program.
METHODS:
In a single-blind, randomized protocol, resistance-trained males were matched for strength and placed into one of two groups; the PRE-POST group consumed a supplement (1 g x kg(-1) body weight) containing protein/creatine/glucose immediately before and after RE. The MOR-EVE group consumed the same dose of the same supplement in the morning and late evening. All assessments were completed the week before and after 10 wk of structured, supervised RE training. Assessments included strength (1RM, three exercises), body composition (DEXA), and vastus lateralis muscle biopsies for determination of muscle fiber type (I, IIa, IIx), cross-sectional area (CSA), contractile protein, creatine (Cr), and glycogen content.
RESULTS:
PRE-POST demonstrated a greater (P < 0.05) increase in lean body mass and 1RM strength in two of three assessments. The changes in body composition were supported by a greater (P < 0.05) increase in CSA of the type II fibers and contractile protein content. PRE-POST supplementation also resulted in higher muscle Cr and glycogen values after the training program (P < 0.05).
CONCLUSION:
Supplement timing represents a simple but effective strategy that enhances the adaptations desired from RE-training.

stevenlcopeland

No

Trueray

Is too much crack hazardous?