anybody here squating heavy without a rack?
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There is nothing on earth to suggest that making your spine the “middle man” between a multi-hundred pound barbell, and your legs, is a particularly good, or even safe idea.
Why apply resistance so far from the intended muscle group? A barbell squat is the equivalent of loading your triceps through your feet, upside down against a wall.
Oh, and I didn't start strength training until after suffering a fib/talus fracture, and I love every minute of it. So there's some "life experience" for you. Cheers!
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I was lurking, but had to join to post...
#1 - Free weights are safer than machines - even now.
- In the bad old days (ready 1990) a lot of exercise machines were brilliant at causing hypertrophy of the sellers wallet and INJURY to the individual using them.
- Classic were Leg Press that suffered stiction at mid-heavy load due to bad design and the almost universal Leg Extension machine which either got it right or injured everyone that went near the thing.
#2 - SQUATS MUST NEVER BE DONE WITHOUT A RACK AT 50% 1RM OR CAGE >50% 1RM
- PLEASE take that from a former ol wl.
- You can NOT always guarantee you will dump backwards.
- Male vertebra, never mind female vertebra, are not designed to withstand a bar falling on them - DO YOU WANT TO BE PARALYSED, IS IT WORTH IT ??
There is EVERY CHANCE your squat will fail because of a tiny back injury.
That will move you forwards and not backwards.
Someone mentioned good form re heels down.
Correct, and as you go heavier ABSOLUTELY keep those heels down - because rotating the weight to the toes (VERY COMMON if you run on your toes, big calves, not flat footed) will dump the load onto the glutes and hamstrings and WILL rotate the pelvis rounding the back angle imposing colossal load on the back and WILL eventually injure it - and you will go forwards.
Ol wl do get used to dumping bars, but that is either at the leg stall point or failure to lock, in a squat you use a cage. You may notice most cages have a bend, that is because the person walked away.
Footwear.
Cross training are the wrong equipment for squats.
You need hard wedge heel weight lifting shoes because it will protect your back from the above scenario. If you get SI joint pain or an odd pain "below L5" chances are you are lifting on your toes and your #1 technique and #2 strength is not ready yet.
Females are very likely to dump a squat forwards.
Males tend to lift heels - females tend to have better form (and can make very good, if not better, drivers because they are not chasing the figure so to speak).
I am a former ol wl, injured ironically by a leg press machine jamming and dumping all the weight on my LH side with only exit being to lift 90% of the stack off. It stuffed my left SI and left L5 inferior facet joint - in an era when medicine would not consider the SI could be injured. Now it is accepted than low-impact, long-duration WILL stretch those ligaments leaving an obviously wobbly iliac crest when you walk never mind the Faber test. Before bone-heads (ortho) believed only high-impact, short-duration (motorcyclist sliding into a kerb) could injure it. The latter breaks bones, the former rips ligament out of bone.
Seen too many accidents, one who went to Switzerland after a rugby accident to be euthanaised.
A safer squat is a ONE-legged squat via a step and dumb-bells / plates.
- Typical leg is 12-16kg (ok mine were 36-inch so heavier)
- With 2-leg squat you are squatting bodyweight less TWO legs on TWO legs
- With 1-leg squat you are squatting bodyweight less ONE leg on ONE leg
2-leg squat:
- You weigh 80kg, your legs 16kg each, you squat 100kg on TWO legs
- Your legs are actually pushing (80-16-16+100) / 2 = 74kg on EACH leg
1-leg squat:
- You weigh 80kg, one leg is 16kg each, you hold 20kg of dumb-bells
- Your ONE leg is actually pushing 80-16+20 = 84kg on ONE leg
NOW, the 1-leg step "squat" will be easier than the 2-leg squat, so the maths are not strictly true. Additionally 1-leg step "squat" requires VERY strict form re NO push off by the other leg, perfect balance, no bounce or lean forward, and done slowly. It should make your leg shake from exhaustion just like a good squat.
To be honest, since this is fitness, strength, weight loss and not all out competition I would actually say never squat with more than 75% 1RM and instead use the 1-leg step "squat" for going heavy. The form when perfect will kill the weight you can use (many people think it is easy, tell them to curl their toes UP when lifting the trailing leg so it does not assist).
It takes a good amount of conditioning to handle heavy squats - 2 years and using 1-leg step will work all the stabilisation muscles that 2-leg squats frankly do not.
Squatting alone is a good way to bad form.
Using 1 leg step up "squats" even with a barbell is safer because you can dump the barbell because your back is in a more advantageous position and the weight vastly less.
Squats create A LOT of injuries, second only to deadlift which most oly wl will not do as "stupid" :-) You can see we fight with the pl crowd a lot. Likewise benchpress and wl is a fast track to stuffing shoulders, use dumb bell flies and let the boys/girls play with your legs instead of pecs.
Cheap enough to video yourself squatting and see the form. Don't reach for more weight, always reach for better form and keep the weight on the heel which is VERY difficult for some people AND particularly as they go heavier. Wedge proper wl shoes, I hate the weight plate under a heel as it invites cross-trainer shoe distortion and instability.
If you think 1 leg step-ups can't create breath taking thighs and impossibly solid pelvis & abdominal and bum without so much as a crease under it, they can, my girlfriend put many of the UK oly team to shame. Don't forget sprinting BTW, even once a week a few sprints and LIFT YOUR KNEES to lengthen your stride (one reason the step girls can out run the boys... oops, let it slip... *smile*).0 -
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- Male vertebra, never mind female vertebra, are not designed to withstand a bar falling on them - DO YOU WANT TO BE PARALYSED, IS IT WORTH IT ??
duh- because we have special barbell proof vertebra.0 -
There is nothing on earth to suggest that making your spine the “middle man” between a multi-hundred pound barbell, and your legs, is a particularly good, or even safe idea.
Why apply resistance so far from the intended muscle group? A barbell squat is the equivalent of loading your triceps through your feet, upside down against a wall.
Oh, and I didn't start strength training until after suffering a fib/talus fracture, and I love every minute of it. So there's some "life experience" for you. Cheers!
You should really watch the video I linked earlier.0 -
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FTR, I bought this from Dick's Sporting Goods last year for $275: http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=23773346&ab=TopNav_Exercise_StrengthTraining_RacksCages&jsessionid=pDsNJ4RhCbyypDLRw2QvlMf4Zwg8HVJKpnmkHMGcGpnXm2ny8Q2f!-2086746303&cp=4413986.12598195
They run huge sales on them around Thanksgiving.0 -
safety equipment is always for the best... but it is the one lift i've never got stuck in. but thats mostly because i know my limits and generally don't push them much in the squat0
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yeah, but the cage becomes nice when you're like... I think my 1RM is 315, let's try 350.
Oh, 350 was too easy...0 -
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Thanks for the tip. I eye that thing everytime I'm at the store. Currently have a DIY wooden rack but would love to have a "real" rack.monkeyinasuit wrote: »FTR, I bought this from Dick's Sporting Goods last year for $275: http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=23773346&ab=TopNav_Exercise_StrengthTraining_RacksCages&jsessionid=pDsNJ4RhCbyypDLRw2QvlMf4Zwg8HVJKpnmkHMGcGpnXm2ny8Q2f!-2086746303&cp=4413986.12598195
They run huge sales on them around Thanksgiving.
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clearly.
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I would say it's rather difficult to squat "heavy". I could probably Push-Press 215 but I'm not sure I could safely get it into position for a squat. 215 is only about 55% of my 1RM, so that's not even in the realm of heavy.
For Barbell squats you should always use a rack so you can get yourself into proper position for the squat.0 -
Wrong again.. I covered drug use.. And when did anyone say that lifting in general didn't serve more than aesthetics? You obviously didn't read??
You referred to a drug-using bodybuilder's looks as proof that heavy squatting is useless.Yup.. and the heavier you go, the more likely you are to lose form at some point and the greater the potential damage. I doubt many people are running or doing pretty much any other human movement with bad form and hundreds of pounds on their shoulders.
That's why you train and work your way up to the heavy weights, and why form is always more important than weight. If you use a weight that's too heavy for you, you're doing it wrong and any subsequent injury is not because heavy squatting is inherently dangerous but because that person didn't do it correctly.
You talk about the dangers of squatting heavy with bad form and conclude that squatting heavy in general is dangerous.It's all about risk vs reward.. Each person can make up their own mind.. which I mentioned, multiple times. If you like heavy squats, then by all means go ahead and do them, but don't try to convince the world that they are necessary or without risk.
So what's your opinion on heavy bench presses? I don't do conventional squats btw because I can't perform them correctly but that doesn't mean that nobody else can/should do them safely either. Also nobody said they're necessary but they're an excellent exercise when performed correctly. If you don't like them, don't do them but don't try to convince the world they're inherently dangerous.Most of you trolls must have dropped out in middle school with the amount of false logic you use in your personal attacks.
And this was the first personal insult I've seen in this thread. Charming.0 -
I know that feeling. Since my gym gear is in the basement I have a severe height restriction. Six-foot cages with sufficient strength are a pain to find, so I built one with 2x4 uprights and 3/4 inch iron pipe safeties. The safeties got bent jussssssssssst enough on the last bail that to replace them I'd have to cut them out._benjammin wrote: »Thanks for the tip. I eye that thing everytime I'm at the store. Currently have a DIY wooden rack but would love to have a "real" rack.0 -
Actually there are lots of injuries and conditions you can get from just laying in bed. At the end of the day, we're all going to die.
lol yeah- my bf figured that out last night- but I think that had more to do with the fact I kicked him in the chest...
but you know what I'm saying LOL
I have done many a weighted squat and not hurt my back yet (good form and good coaching), although this weekend I hurt my back, in bed, if you know what I mean
Maybe I should concentrate on my form ha ha ha!
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Actually there are lots of injuries and conditions you can get from just laying in bed. At the end of the day, we're all going to die.
lol yeah- my bf figured that out last night- but I think that had more to do with the fact I kicked him in the chest... but you know what I'm saying LOL
I have done many a weighted squat and not hurt my back yet (good form and good coaching), although this weekend I hurt my back, in bed, if you know what I mean Maybe I should concentrate on my form ha ha ha!
clearly you just need more practice!!!0 -
Actually there are lots of injuries and conditions you can get from just laying in bed. At the end of the day, we're all going to die.
lol yeah- my bf figured that out last night- but I think that had more to do with the fact I kicked him in the chest... but you know what I'm saying LOL
I have done many a weighted squat and not hurt my back yet (good form and good coaching), although this weekend I hurt my back, in bed, if you know what I mean Maybe I should concentrate on my form ha ha ha!
clearly you just need more practice!!!
Practice makes perfect right?
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with good form- and we all know that means you have to do it a lot - with light to moderate weight- no heavy sessions- just gotta log a lot of miles.
So get back in there and do it till you can't get it wrong!!!
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