IS MY NEW JOB SABOTAGING MY METABOLISM??

levitateme

A refeed is a refeed. There are not a bunch of different type of refeeds just a bunch of different people who confuse what it is and use it to justify their overindulgence in food for a day.

An actual carb refeed is intended to serve a purpose, not to allow an individual to pig out.
Refeeds are used by people who are generally lean, in men we're talking 15% and under but in reality it's more realistic to start at 12% and under and can be necessary for those dipping into single digits.

At those body fat levels and if carbohydrate levels are low enough coupled with proper training then you'd be susceptible to a reduction in glycogen leaving you looking flat and at the same time affecting training performance due to reduced energy levels.

Leptin reduction is another goal to address during the refeed and usually one of the main goals. So in order to do that we look for insulin spikes, big ones, all day. However, actually being able to properly manipulate Leptin takes several days of this type of feeding. But a days action will have an effect that will lead to helping control hunger. Unfortunately for people like the OP who have a lot of weight to lose, they are not really susceptible to reduced Leptin.

There are guidelines, structures, specific food selection, calorie and macro ranges that need to be adjusted. Running a proper refeed is actually harder than your standard days caloric deficit. To many people out there hear about them and think it's a great idea because it's a free pass. They are wrong.

There is plenty of information out there on this if you research properly but unfortunately it does appear to many people are to lazy to read up on stuff and just want answers spoon fed.

Thanks for your explanation, except for the judgmental slam at the end of it. Some people, like me, get confused by the different ways in which the term "refeed" is used and are looking for the generally accepted definition. It's not hard to get confused when there is no single operational definition.

That's not a judgmental slam at all. There are seriously 20 topics a day asking the SAME QUESTIONS over and over. People need to stop posting questions and read more stickies IMO. But y'know. "Bullies"

Alluminati

Thanks for your explanation, except for the judgmental slam at the end of it. Some people, like me, get confused by the different ways in which the term "refeed" is used and are looking for the generally accepted definition. It's not hard to get confused when there is no single operational definition.

Every time I see you in threads you are always getting in to fights.

LoupGarouTFTs

While it might appear to be a judgmental slam it's not. And it was not directed at anyone in this thread at all. My comment was based on the countless threads on the whole refeed topic, some here but not a lot but more than you could imagine over at another site. The confusion is typically the same and the same with the mistakes which can be avoided by taking the time to research something instead of jumping in face first.

I can see you are going to take issue with the way I write. You have a couple of options:
Look past the delivery and look at the message
Continue to take issue with them
Ignore my post
Block me

That's not a judgmental slam at all. There are seriously 20 topics a day asking the SAME QUESTIONS over and over. People need to stop posting questions and read more stickies IMO. But y'know. "Bullies"

Yay, justification! Because, you know, everyone reads all the same posts on all the same forums and really should go searching for what the OP *in this thread* meant somewhere else--because everyone means the same thing as the OP by the same terminology. Go ahead, put a mixed group of 10 equestrians and dog fanciers, all of whom have different breeds, in a room and ask all of them what is meant by "well let down hocks." You'll weep by the end of the exercise.

No one cares if you've read six kazillion billion threads asking what a "refeed day" might be. No one is forcing you to respond if you can't be civil when someone asks a legit question.

LoupGarouTFTs

Thanks for your explanation, except for the judgmental slam at the end of it. Some people, like me, get confused by the different ways in which the term "refeed" is used and are looking for the generally accepted definition. It's not hard to get confused when there is no single operational definition.

Every time I see you in threads you are always getting in to fights.

That's because you don't remember my name when I'm not. Oh--and it's because I have a poor internal editor and I have no problem with telling people what I think--such as, "don't you think this could have been handled in a private message instead of getting all in my face in public?"

Edited to add a thought:

Spirited discussion is not "fighting." I have no intention of fighting, but I do feel free to express my opinion on an open forum. My opinion will not always agree with other people's opinions. I'm absolutely fine with civil discourse when people don't come out with snarky or rude or sarcastic responses. I have no issue with responding in kind when confronted with snark or rudeness or sarcasm. Them's the breaks.

Unknown

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devil_in_a_blue_dress

You'll never shred fat with an attitude like that.

Derpes

Somewhere on planet earth......

TX_Rhon

I'm not sure your job is sabotaging you but I'm pretty sure the pepole at FB are accusing you of making fake FB accounts therefore causing your church to hate you which in turn makes you itchy if you eat carbs.

Good luck :flowerforyou:

nilbogger

Jesus walked everywhere and he looked pretty toned.

Chevy_Quest

walking is definitely going to sabotage any weight loss efforts...

Why?

Surely the exercise OP is doing for this job will help with weight loss.

Op eat back the exercise calories to net a healthy amount.

Don't worry, you are not going into starvation mode.

If we could do it, that would be in italics for sarcasm.

yo_andi

Maybe the people at your church aren't talking to you because you're flyering their homes...

LoupGarouTFTs

No one is forcing me to respond to threads just like no one is forcing you to read my responses and have your feelings hurt.

You give yourself quite a lot of power, don't you? Just because I (or anyone) comments back to you doesn't mean my (our) feelings are hurt. LOL I haven't blocked you yet because we've often agreed on things and there are things I can learn from you, but, you know . . . diminishing returns and all that.

Have a great afternoon (or whatever time it is where you are) and take care!

skullshank

Jesus walked everywhere and he looked pretty toned.

he lifted too bro

rose313

OP, I don't think what you're doing is sabotaging your metabolism. If you get hungrier due to your increased activity at work just eat a little more.

Cliffslosinit

Jesus walked everywhere and he looked pretty toned.

he lifted too bro

Stop hi-jacking and go make a Zombie thread!

nilbogger

Jesus walked everywhere and he looked pretty toned.

he lifted too bro

Of course he didn't have sick gainz because his macros were way off.

Quasita

I'm confused. What?

Also, if you have 150 lbs to lose, why are you running refeeds? They are not necessary for you. I'm not sure what any of your daily numbers are, but you do not need refeeds. And there's probably a 99% chance you aren't doing them right anyway.

like I said earlier I'm not familiar with refeeds, but with 150 lb to lose not sure you would need to do this.

I at least assumed that OP wasn't referring to bulk/cut cycles, based on their given information and apparent understanding... But refeed is a term used in a variety of ways on here. Some use it to indicate spike days, others for fasting/fed cycles, others still for days on which they calculate their extra calories for the week and eat more that day so not to have too much of a deficit at week's end. Without more information on the plan the OP is trying to follow, it would be impossible to know, but if they truly need to lose 150lbs, it's likely that none of these would come into play, with the exception perhaps of using spike days as a way to excuse overeating (you see this a lot sometimes, people who ate too much today and say "Oh, I guess today is my spike/refeed day."

A refeed is a refeed. There are not a bunch of different type of refeeds just a bunch of different people who confuse what it is and use it to justify their overindulgence in food for a day.

An actual carb refeed is intended to serve a purpose, not to allow an individual to pig out.
Refeeds are used by people who are generally lean, in men we're talking 15% and under but in reality it's more realistic to start at 12% and under and can be necessary for those dipping into single digits.

At those body fat levels and if carbohydrate levels are low enough coupled with proper training then you'd be susceptible to a reduction in glycogen leaving you looking flat and at the same time affecting training performance due to reduced energy levels.

Leptin reduction is another goal to address during the refeed and usually one of the main goals. So in order to do that we look for insulin spikes, big ones, all day. However, actually being able to properly manipulate Leptin takes several days of this type of feeding. But a days action will have an effect that will lead to helping control hunger. Unfortunately for people like the OP who have a lot of weight to lose, they are not really susceptible to reduced Leptin.

There are guidelines, structures, specific food selection, calorie and macro ranges that need to be adjusted. Running a proper refeed is actually harder than your standard days caloric deficit. To many people out there hear about them and think it's a great idea because it's a free pass. They are wrong.

There is plenty of information out there on this if you research properly but unfortunately it does appear to many people are to lazy to read up on stuff and just want answers spoon fed.

I suppose this is a matter of semantics, but I didn't say there were a bunch of kinds of refeeds. I said the term is used in a variety of ways by people on MFP, to represent various dietary practices, and that without more information from the OP, it would be hard to know what they really meant.

Also, for the record, heavy people do find themselves subject to leptin reduction issues, probably more than is realized. While it drives hunger, it also plays a part in weight loss, and many heavy people have suffered binge problems to the point where leptin production is completely screwed up. Many obese individuals have low to no leptin production, and others have leptin resistance issues... and while refeeding and strategic eating practices probably help others, studies show that obese individuals who develop this issue are almost doomed, as there is no cure for resistance. But this is neither here nor there, since I wouldn't think this is the issue the OP is having.

Anyway, refeed is a misnomer more often than not, and I suspect that in this case, that's exactly what is happening, so that is why I spelled out the different ways people on here use the term... Not to say that they are correct in those terms...

Then again, there are at least two kinds of refeed, but most people don't deal with the second kind. Refeed is a term also used in ED rehabilitation, a term for the structured increasing of calories from an anorexic level to a normalized one.. and thus, you have refeeding syndrome, which is a syndrome caused by unmanaged or too large of caloric increases after extended periods of VLCD, and can make people really sick. It's a sore spot for me because it's a very dangerous condition, it can kill you, and having suffered it personally (and still struggle with symptoms when trying to increase my calories to my norm intake of ~3000, which I have a very hard time doing daily). But like I said, most people don't face that kind of refeed... and I guess in a way it is the same, because it is just structure increases to intake... Just one has much more serious health circumstances than the other.

paperpudding

walking is definitely going to sabotage any weight loss efforts...

Why?

Surely the exercise OP is doing for this job will help with weight loss.

Op eat back the exercise calories to net a healthy amount.

Don't worry, you are not going into starvation mode.

If we could do it, that would be in italics for sarcasm.

That is my post you quoted - I was not saying anything sarcastically.

paperpudding

Sorry to be a kill joy but I think the Jesus picture is in bad taste - I dont think a photoshopped picture of Jesus on the cross weightlifting is something that should be posted on the forum.

Just my opinion, but I think that crosses a line

and no, I don't think a photoshopped picture of anyone else's religion - a picture of Mohammed, for example, is alright either.

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Quasita

Just thought I'd add in... After looking at the OP's original forum post...

They are labeling overeating for a week on ice cream sandwiches and junk food due to sort of giving up due to a plateau as a refeed, most likely because another respondent stated they saw similar effects of a refeed by overeating at that level.

I have suggested in that thread that they get their numbers, as they could just be undereating for their body right now, and thus seeing positive results from "binge" eating (as they put it... another pet peeve of mine, when people label a week of overdoing it as a binge, when a binge is something else entirely) because they are actually eating a calorie level they need to be eating during those up weeks.

Of course, everyone is different, and I only have my own research and experience to fall back on, but I spent weeks on 1600ish a day without result before getting a monitor and measuring my 24/7 burn and finding out that I personally needed to eat twice that just for my daily activity, before exercise... and when I started eating the higher number and more healthfully for my body, rather than going with assumptions based on averages, I saw a major increase in weight loss and hunger. Hopefully OP will actually read some of this...

As for the Jesus picture, to each their own. I love those types of things. Not offensive to me in the least, at least not in this scenario. It's in good fun, and not disparaging Christianity. I can see how someone would disagree with my take on it, but seeing as the Jesus picture is a pretty well known and long-standing meme event, I'm not exactly surprised to see them pop up here.

Quasita

Also, for the record, heavy people do find themselves subject to leptin reduction issues, probably more than is realized. While it drives hunger, it also plays a part in weight loss, and many heavy people have suffered binge problems to the point where leptin production is completely screwed up. Many obese individuals have low to no leptin production, and others have leptin resistance issues... and while refeeding and strategic eating practices probably help others, studies show that obese individuals who develop this issue are almost doomed, as there is no cure for resistance. But this is neither here nor there, since I wouldn't think this is the issue the OP is having.

Yes I am aware of the fact that obese individuals can develop Leptin resistance or even inherit the trait, however that is not what I am speaking of.

I am talking about those people who are obese or overweight that are not already affected by Leptin resistance and enter a hypocaloric state. Do you have any readings I can see where it shows Leptin reduction in obese and/or overweight individuals related to a hypocaloric diet?

"RESULTS:
Sixty-six patients (17 male, 49 female) gave informed consent and were enrolled in the study. Forty-six patients did not lose 5% of initial weight (group I, weight loss 1.4 +/- 2.5 kg) and 20 patients lost weight (>5% of initial weight; group II, weight loss 7.1 +/- 2.6 kg). In group I, active ghrelin levels increased (7.40 +/- 8 versus 19.40 +/- 32 pg/mL, P < 0.05) and leptin levels decreased (102.6 +/- 86 versus 89.30 +/- 76 ng/mL, P < 0.05). In group II, leptin levels also decreased significantly (69.80 +/- 67 versus 53.50 +/- 59 ng/mL, P < 0.05). Active ghrelin in this group did not show differences (24.20 +/- 41 versus 10.30 +/- 12 pg/mL, NS). In the multivariate analysis with a dependent variable (change in active ghrelin levels, pg/ml) in group II adjusted by age and sex, only basal fat mass and basal intake of protein remained in the model. In the multivariate analysis with a dependent variable (change in leptin levels, pg/ml) in group II adjusted by age and sex, only basal fat mass and BMI remained in the model.
CONCLUSION:
Patients with weight loss secondary to a hypocaloric diet did not change active ghrelin levels and decreased leptin levels after treatment."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18165128

Pretty much every article on the subject of leptin levels being monitored during a hypocaloric state in obese individuals shows a great decrease in leptin levels during the induced dietary limitation. While many obese individuals show higher levels of leptin during their initial sedentary state, once a dietary intervention is introduced, leptin levels reduce significantly, much at the similar rate as a non-obese person. Adding exercise will even further increase the impact to leptin levels.

Even if a person has higher leptin levels than "normal" after this reduction, it can be concluded that the difference in that level alone can cause significant impact to what's going on with that individual, and that is why they are currently doing clinical research and case studies on the efficacy of leptin-hormone intervention alongside diet and exercise, to promote significant and permanent weight loss, and keep loss rates from stalling in obese individuals. I found pages and pages of National Institute of Health articles on the matter, with variations of topic concentrations, ranging from simply leptin impact through diet all the way to leptin levels as monitored during the structured intervention of other weight loss strategies like surgery.

You can also find a lot of information about the impact on leptin seen in anorexic individuals and how it impacts the continued healthy lifestyle of someone that has suffered acute anorexia. Before you say obese individuals cannot have anorexia, that misconception was discredited many years ago, and the BMI requirement for anorexia nervosa diagnosis was removed almost 20 years ago now.

I can keep citing these studies and articles, but from what I've seen, the rate of reduction is pretty universal, give or take a few points. Of course, more information is coming. In my eyes, low leptin levels and leptin resistance are kind of the same... seeing as even though leptin resistance typically comes from over exposure to higher levels, it does result in a low level efficacy of the hormone, much on par with just having low levels to start with.

Unknown

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