Is there a place for low weight/hugh reps?

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Replies

  • Ashes_To_Beast
    Ashes_To_Beast Posts: 378 Member
    For Hypertrophy you need time under tension, along the lines of 40 sec to 70 sec per set works great, lighter weights with slow negatives will give good results. But you still need progressive overload. You need to wear out your muscle, either with 5 reps or 15, if you can do more reps after the limit you've set you need to add more weight.
  • jjplato
    jjplato Posts: 155 Member
    For Hypertrophy you need time under tension, along the lines of 40 sec to 70 sec per set works great, lighter weights with slow negatives will give good results. But you still need progressive overload. You need to wear out your muscle, either with 5 reps or 15, if you can do more reps after the limit you've set you need to add more weight.

    This is what I do -- reps very slow and controlled, 3-4 secs for both the concentric and eccentric contractions, all the way to failure. When I progress to the point where I can do 10-12 reps, I add weight to get back to 8 reps max.

    I see guys in the gym all the time bouncing, swinging, and heaving weights -- banging out reps as fast as they can. Not only is it pretty much a waste of time, but a very high risk for injury.
  • mustgetmuscles1
    mustgetmuscles1 Posts: 3,346 Member
    Brad Shoenfeld is currently doing a study on 30 rep sets to failure on experienced lifters. The results are not out yet but from the few comments he has been leaving they are still showing good muscle growth.

    Couple of links I found interesting on the subject.

    http://www.lookgreatnaked.com/blog/bodybuilding-vs-powerlifting-type-training-which-builds-more-strength-and-muscle/

    http://youtu.be/xTDapcklnV8

    http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/light_weights_for_big_gains

    http://youtu.be/w6p-BockeRw
  • mustgetmuscles1
    mustgetmuscles1 Posts: 3,346 Member
    For Hypertrophy you need time under tension, along the lines of 40 sec to 70 sec per set works great, lighter weights with slow negatives will give good results. But you still need progressive overload. You need to wear out your muscle, either with 5 reps or 15, if you can do more reps after the limit you've set you need to add more weight.

    This is what I do -- reps very slow and controlled, 3-4 secs for both the concentric and eccentric contractions, all the way to failure. When I progress to the point where I can do 10-12 reps, I add weight to get back to 8 reps max.

    I see guys in the gym all the time bouncing, swinging, and heaving weights -- banging out reps as fast as they can. Not only is it pretty much a waste of time, but a very high risk for injury.

    Interesting new study showing that intentionally slowing down a lift substantially reduces strength gains despite a much greater time under load.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24734902
  • DiscePati
    DiscePati Posts: 55 Member
    In for Hugh reps.

    mutant-strength-hugh-jackmans-wolverine-workout-plan_c.jpg

    hugh-jackman-workout%5B1%5D.jpg
    I'm confused...

    You do realize this guy trains with low reps, right?

    "Hugh reps" this is Hugh Jackman doing reps. Get it, "hugh?"
  • Ashes_To_Beast
    Ashes_To_Beast Posts: 378 Member
    For Hypertrophy you need time under tension, along the lines of 40 sec to 70 sec per set works great, lighter weights with slow negatives will give good results. But you still need progressive overload. You need to wear out your muscle, either with 5 reps or 15, if you can do more reps after the limit you've set you need to add more weight.

    This is what I do -- reps very slow and controlled, 3-4 secs for both the concentric and eccentric contractions, all the way to failure. When I progress to the point where I can do 10-12 reps, I add weight to get back to 8 reps max.

    I see guys in the gym all the time bouncing, swinging, and heaving weights -- banging out reps as fast as they can. Not only is it pretty much a waste of time, but a very high risk for injury.

    Interesting new study showing that intentionally slowing down a lift substantially reduces strength gains despite a much greater time under load.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24734902

    Not arguing that, that's pretty much why I specified for Hypertrophy, I use 40sec sets for Isolation, but for the "Big Lifts" I use 5x5. To each his own but I personally saw much better gains using the MI40 tactics of Intention and slow negatives.
  • jjplato
    jjplato Posts: 155 Member
    For Hypertrophy you need time under tension, along the lines of 40 sec to 70 sec per set works great, lighter weights with slow negatives will give good results. But you still need progressive overload. You need to wear out your muscle, either with 5 reps or 15, if you can do more reps after the limit you've set you need to add more weight.

    This is what I do -- reps very slow and controlled, 3-4 secs for both the concentric and eccentric contractions, all the way to failure. When I progress to the point where I can do 10-12 reps, I add weight to get back to 8 reps max.

    I see guys in the gym all the time bouncing, swinging, and heaving weights -- banging out reps as fast as they can. Not only is it pretty much a waste of time, but a very high risk for injury.

    Interesting new study showing that intentionally slowing down a lift substantially reduces strength gains despite a much greater time under load.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24734902

    This is very interesting -- thanks for posting. I noted that the focus was on maximal intended velocity on the concentric contraction specifically. This may suggest that a way to maximize gains while avoiding swinging, bouncing, or heaving the weights would be to lift the weight as quickly as possible and let it down slowly. This may also help prevent injury due to hyperextention or overstress at the bottom of a rep. I'm trying to find the entire study.
  • Ashes_To_Beast
    Ashes_To_Beast Posts: 378 Member
    For Hypertrophy you need time under tension, along the lines of 40 sec to 70 sec per set works great, lighter weights with slow negatives will give good results. But you still need progressive overload. You need to wear out your muscle, either with 5 reps or 15, if you can do more reps after the limit you've set you need to add more weight.

    This is what I do -- reps very slow and controlled, 3-4 secs for both the concentric and eccentric contractions, all the way to failure. When I progress to the point where I can do 10-12 reps, I add weight to get back to 8 reps max.

    I see guys in the gym all the time bouncing, swinging, and heaving weights -- banging out reps as fast as they can. Not only is it pretty much a waste of time, but a very high risk for injury.

    Interesting new study showing that intentionally slowing down a lift substantially reduces strength gains despite a much greater time under load.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24734902

    This is very interesting -- thanks for posting. I noted that the focus was on maximal intended velocity on the concentric contraction specifically. This may suggest that a way to maximize gains while avoiding swinging, bouncing, or heaving the weights would be to lift the weight as quickly as possible and let it down slowly. This may also help prevent injury due to hyperextention or overstress at the bottom of a rep. I'm trying to find the entire study.

    You should look up the MI40 program, seeing how you lift I think you would enjoy it, It's explosive concentric with slow negatives, also alot of focus on Intention as you lift.
  • jjplato
    jjplato Posts: 155 Member
    For Hypertrophy you need time under tension, along the lines of 40 sec to 70 sec per set works great, lighter weights with slow negatives will give good results. But you still need progressive overload. You need to wear out your muscle, either with 5 reps or 15, if you can do more reps after the limit you've set you need to add more weight.

    This is what I do -- reps very slow and controlled, 3-4 secs for both the concentric and eccentric contractions, all the way to failure. When I progress to the point where I can do 10-12 reps, I add weight to get back to 8 reps max.

    I see guys in the gym all the time bouncing, swinging, and heaving weights -- banging out reps as fast as they can. Not only is it pretty much a waste of time, but a very high risk for injury.

    Interesting new study showing that intentionally slowing down a lift substantially reduces strength gains despite a much greater time under load.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24734902

    This is very interesting -- thanks for posting. I noted that the focus was on maximal intended velocity on the concentric contraction specifically. This may suggest that a way to maximize gains while avoiding swinging, bouncing, or heaving the weights would be to lift the weight as quickly as possible and let it down slowly. This may also help prevent injury due to hyperextention or overstress at the bottom of a rep. I'm trying to find the entire study.

    You should look up the MI40 program, seeing how you lift I think you would enjoy it, It's explosive concentric with slow negatives, also alot of focus on Intention as you lift.

    Thanks! I'll check that out. Is that what you're doing?
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
    For Hypertrophy you need time under tension, along the lines of 40 sec to 70 sec per set works great, lighter weights with slow negatives will give good results. But you still need progressive overload. You need to wear out your muscle, either with 5 reps or 15, if you can do more reps after the limit you've set you need to add more weight.

    This is what I do -- reps very slow and controlled, 3-4 secs for both the concentric and eccentric contractions, all the way to failure. When I progress to the point where I can do 10-12 reps, I add weight to get back to 8 reps max.

    I see guys in the gym all the time bouncing, swinging, and heaving weights -- banging out reps as fast as they can. Not only is it pretty much a waste of time, but a very high risk for injury.

    Interesting new study showing that intentionally slowing down a lift substantially reduces strength gains despite a much greater time under load.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24734902

    I thought that this was the accepted practice for a long time but the poster was referring to hypertrophy, not strength?
  • baptiste565
    baptiste565 Posts: 590 Member
    Needs more context before anyone can provide a qualified answer.

    1. How low we talkin?
    2. How high we talkin?
    3. What are the goals we're hoping to achieve?

    There's value in a wide range of modalities but little to none at the extremes. A workout consisting of 30 rep 3 pound weights is just as ineffective as one consisting of all 1RMs.
    Huh singles dont build muscle? I have had good results foing 5 sets of heavy singles in deadlift.
  • Ashes_To_Beast
    Ashes_To_Beast Posts: 378 Member
    For Hypertrophy you need time under tension, along the lines of 40 sec to 70 sec per set works great, lighter weights with slow negatives will give good results. But you still need progressive overload. You need to wear out your muscle, either with 5 reps or 15, if you can do more reps after the limit you've set you need to add more weight.

    This is what I do -- reps very slow and controlled, 3-4 secs for both the concentric and eccentric contractions, all the way to failure. When I progress to the point where I can do 10-12 reps, I add weight to get back to 8 reps max.

    I see guys in the gym all the time bouncing, swinging, and heaving weights -- banging out reps as fast as they can. Not only is it pretty much a waste of time, but a very high risk for injury.

    Interesting new study showing that intentionally slowing down a lift substantially reduces strength gains despite a much greater time under load.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24734902

    This is very interesting -- thanks for posting. I noted that the focus was on maximal intended velocity on the concentric contraction specifically. This may suggest that a way to maximize gains while avoiding swinging, bouncing, or heaving the weights would be to lift the weight as quickly as possible and let it down slowly. This may also help prevent injury due to hyperextention or overstress at the bottom of a rep. I'm trying to find the entire study.

    You should look up the MI40 program, seeing how you lift I think you would enjoy it, It's explosive concentric with slow negatives, also alot of focus on Intention as you lift.

    Thanks! I'll check that out. Is that what you're doing?

    Yup, on my second go right now! It was love at first set lol
  • baptiste565
    baptiste565 Posts: 590 Member
    Yes, without a shadow of a doubt.

    In addition, low weight / high reps can also trigger hypertrophy so it's not just for muscular endurance.

    Beware of what is evangelised by the Church of Heavy Lifting.

    You can say "without a shadow of a doubt" even if we're talking about 50 reps of 2 pound curls with a goal of increasing strength or maintaining bone density?
    Not optimal but will build muscle. Progressive overload. Wk 1 50reps of 2lbs. Wk 2 50reps of of 4lbs. Wk 3 6lbs. Etc
  • mustgetmuscles1
    mustgetmuscles1 Posts: 3,346 Member
    For Hypertrophy you need time under tension, along the lines of 40 sec to 70 sec per set works great, lighter weights with slow negatives will give good results. But you still need progressive overload. You need to wear out your muscle, either with 5 reps or 15, if you can do more reps after the limit you've set you need to add more weight.

    This is what I do -- reps very slow and controlled, 3-4 secs for both the concentric and eccentric contractions, all the way to failure. When I progress to the point where I can do 10-12 reps, I add weight to get back to 8 reps max.

    I see guys in the gym all the time bouncing, swinging, and heaving weights -- banging out reps as fast as they can. Not only is it pretty much a waste of time, but a very high risk for injury.

    Interesting new study showing that intentionally slowing down a lift substantially reduces strength gains despite a much greater time under load.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24734902

    I thought that this was the accepted practice for a long time but the poster was referring to hypertrophy, not strength?

    Not sure it is optimal for hypertrophy but would like to learn more if you have anything on it.

    Here is a video from Eric Helms on it.
    http://youtu.be/bRevyyFM82w

    Contreras and Shoenfeld on tempo training.
    http://youtu.be/bRevyyFM82w
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
    Needs more context before anyone can provide a qualified answer.

    1. How low we talkin?
    2. How high we talkin?
    3. What are the goals we're hoping to achieve?

    There's value in a wide range of modalities but little to none at the extremes. A workout consisting of 30 rep 3 pound weights is just as ineffective as one consisting of all 1RMs.
    Huh singles dont build muscle? I have had good results foing 5 sets of heavy singles in deadlift.

    Is this a program that you'd recommend to a beginner?
  • Ashes_To_Beast
    Ashes_To_Beast Posts: 378 Member
    For Hypertrophy you need time under tension, along the lines of 40 sec to 70 sec per set works great, lighter weights with slow negatives will give good results. But you still need progressive overload. You need to wear out your muscle, either with 5 reps or 15, if you can do more reps after the limit you've set you need to add more weight.

    This is what I do -- reps very slow and controlled, 3-4 secs for both the concentric and eccentric contractions, all the way to failure. When I progress to the point where I can do 10-12 reps, I add weight to get back to 8 reps max.

    I see guys in the gym all the time bouncing, swinging, and heaving weights -- banging out reps as fast as they can. Not only is it pretty much a waste of time, but a very high risk for injury.

    Interesting new study showing that intentionally slowing down a lift substantially reduces strength gains despite a much greater time under load.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24734902

    I thought that this was the accepted practice for a long time but the poster was referring to hypertrophy, not strength?

    Not sure it is optimal for hypertrophy but would like to learn more if you have anything on it.

    Here is a video from Eric Helms on it.
    http://youtu.be/bRevyyFM82w

    Contreras and Shoenfeld on tempo training.
    http://youtu.be/bRevyyFM82w

    If I had more time I would look up exact links but if you look up some of Ben Pakulski's youtube video's or articles he explains the science behind it. If I have more time tonight I'll try to find one and get back to you
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
    Yes, without a shadow of a doubt.

    In addition, low weight / high reps can also trigger hypertrophy so it's not just for muscular endurance.

    Beware of what is evangelised by the Church of Heavy Lifting.

    You can say "without a shadow of a doubt" even if we're talking about 50 reps of 2 pound curls with a goal of increasing strength or maintaining bone density?
    Not optimal but will build muscle. Progressive overload. Wk 1 50reps of 2lbs. Wk 2 50reps of of 4lbs. Wk 3 6lbs. Etc

    Or is this the program you'd recommend to a beginner? I wouldn't want to do either but to each his own.
  • mustgetmuscles1
    mustgetmuscles1 Posts: 3,346 Member
    For Hypertrophy you need time under tension, along the lines of 40 sec to 70 sec per set works great, lighter weights with slow negatives will give good results. But you still need progressive overload. You need to wear out your muscle, either with 5 reps or 15, if you can do more reps after the limit you've set you need to add more weight.

    This is what I do -- reps very slow and controlled, 3-4 secs for both the concentric and eccentric contractions, all the way to failure. When I progress to the point where I can do 10-12 reps, I add weight to get back to 8 reps max.

    I see guys in the gym all the time bouncing, swinging, and heaving weights -- banging out reps as fast as they can. Not only is it pretty much a waste of time, but a very high risk for injury.

    Interesting new study showing that intentionally slowing down a lift substantially reduces strength gains despite a much greater time under load.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24734902

    I thought that this was the accepted practice for a long time but the poster was referring to hypertrophy, not strength?

    Not sure it is optimal for hypertrophy but would like to learn more if you have anything on it.

    Here is a video from Eric Helms on it.
    http://youtu.be/bRevyyFM82w

    Contreras and Shoenfeld on tempo training.
    http://youtu.be/bRevyyFM82w

    If I had more time I would look up exact links but if you look up some of Ben Pakulski's youtube video's or articles he explains the science behind it. If I have more time tonight I'll try to find one and get back to you

    Thanks I will look it up.
  • mank32
    mank32 Posts: 1,323 Member
    :flowerforyou: good read thx ~ tagged for later
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    Yes, but only to a point. In all of my reading and studying I've ever done I've never found anything to convince me that anything beyond sets of 15 reps is worth the extra time and effort.

    My current routine cycles through training cycles with higher volume, low weight/high(er) rep workouts with little rest in between sets all the way to cycles of low volume, heavy low rep sets and everything in between.
  • JCLondonUK
    JCLondonUK Posts: 159
    Great discussion. I'm a beginner, but tagging to follow along.
  • baptiste565
    baptiste565 Posts: 590 Member
    Yes, without a shadow of a doubt.

    In addition, low weight / high reps can also trigger hypertrophy so it's not just for muscular endurance.

    Beware of what is evangelised by the Church of Heavy Lifting.

    You can say "without a shadow of a doubt" even if we're talking about 50 reps of 2 pound curls with a goal of increasing strength or maintaining bone density?
    Not optimal but will build muscle. Progressive overload. Wk 1 50reps of 2lbs. Wk 2 50reps of of 4lbs. Wk 3 6lbs. Etc

    Or is this the program you'd recommend to a beginner? I wouldn't want to do either but to each his own.
    Hah! That would be s horriblr program. But horrible programs build muscle. Bad form builds muscle. Partial reps build muscle. They r not optimal though. Just stimulate alot of muscle fibers.
  • jjplato
    jjplato Posts: 155 Member
    Is anyone doing eccentric-focused sets? I was always under the impression that going slow on the eccentric part of a normal rep, or slowly on an eccentric rep was important to building volume, and while that seems to be the case, there's a body of recent research that claims that fast eccentrics are even more effective. Has anyone tried this?
  • baptiste565
    baptiste565 Posts: 590 Member
    Is anyone doing eccentric-focused sets? I was always under the impression that going slow on the eccentric part of a normal rep, or slowly on an eccentric rep was important to building volume, and while that seems to be the case, there's a body of recent research that claims that fast eccentrics are even more effective. Has anyone tried this?
    Bro, i havent tried it but the research shows that speed work recruits more muscle fibers. U can build alot of explosiveness using exercises that focuses on the concentric like deadlift and pendlay row
  • mustgetmuscles1
    mustgetmuscles1 Posts: 3,346 Member
    Is anyone doing eccentric-focused sets? I was always under the impression that going slow on the eccentric part of a normal rep, or slowly on an eccentric rep was important to building volume, and while that seems to be the case, there's a body of recent research that claims that fast eccentrics are even more effective. Has anyone tried this?

    They talked about this in the video I linked. Not sure how you do a fast eccentric without letting gravity just drop it. It might be that slowing/stopping the weight at the bottom gives the extra benefit.

    It still seems better to me to just do a couple more reps with higher weight than try to do super slow reps for the TUT.

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