How to get faster at running

vmclach

A lot of concensous in the long distance running community is to try to long lots of slow easy miles to get faster.

For example. I run a 20 min 5k... Just under 6:30 per mile.

When I go for an "easy run" I *should* be running 8-10 min pace

My progress has recently stalled.. I feel slow.. Sluggish..

This week I've been trying to do all my runs between 7:30-7 min pace. It feels really good.

Has anyone experienced improved speed by simply running fast every day?

thavoice

YOu feel slow and sluggish because you are slow and sluggish.

I saw your marathon time...wowsers was it terrible and I am not so sure there is help for you.

rduhlir

Be born a Kenyan...I think that would be your only help beyond this point.......

davemunger

A lot of concensous in the long distance running community is to try to long lots of slow easy miles to get faster.

For example. I run a 20 min 5k... Just under 6:30 per mile.

When I go for an "easy run" I *should* be running 8-10 min pace

My progress has recently stalled.. I feel slow.. Sluggish..

This week I've been trying to do all my runs between 7:30-7 min pace. It feels really good.

Has anyone experienced improved speed by simply running fast every day?

You should ask Zekela about that. BTW, McMillanRunning suggests 7:30-8:30 easy run pace for a 20-minute 5ker, so you're not really running that much faster than recommended.

BigT555

YOu feel slow and sluggish because you are slow and sluggish.

I saw your marathon time...wowsers was it terrible and I am not so sure there is help for you.

#shotsfired

OP just work up your speed in your 5 k runs. maybe add in some sprints too

No_Finish_Line

i dont' know anything about running and i know less about distance running


but i don't see how practing running at a slower pace is going to help you get faster

trying to do it faster aught to make you faster if you ask me

quite a refreshing topic though

litsy3

A lot of concensous in the long distance running community is to try to long lots of slow easy miles to get faster.

Has anyone experienced improved speed by simply running fast every day?

So you've talked about the pace, but not the 'lots of miles' part - how many actual miles are you running?

litsy3

but i don't see how practing running at a slower pace is going to help you get faster

It does, though. 80% slow and the other 20% is when you practice the fast running.

vmclach

A lot of concensous in the long distance running community is to try to long lots of slow easy miles to get faster.

Has anyone experienced improved speed by simply running fast every day?

So you've talked about the pace, but not the 'lots of miles' part - how many actual miles are you running?

Usually I was around 60-55.. This week I decided to cut back down to 45-50..

vmclach

but i don't see how practing running at a slower pace is going to help you get faster

It does, though. 80% slow and the other 20% is when you practice the fast running.

Hmm... Has this personally worked for you? I have not found success with it, I've actually gotten much slower doing this

litsy3

It does, though. 80% slow and the other 20% is when you practice the fast running.

Hmm... Has this personally worked for you? I have not found success with it, I've actually gotten much slower doing this
[/quote]

Yes, definitely - if you run too fast all the time you'll improve just because you're doing plenty of running, but hit a plateau and stay there. It gets harder to improve the closer you get to your potential, so you won't be knocking massive chunks off your 5k time after 20 mins, but that's why you need to do much more focused speed training. And if you're doing all your easy running way too fast, you won't be in the best shape to really attack, say, 2 sessions of much faster work each week.

This week I'll have run 50 miles, of which no more than 10 will have been faster than my 'easy' pace. Ask me if it worked in a few weeks as I'm training for a 5k race.

Edit: but it has worked for other race distances too - I got my half marathon down from 1:28 last year to 1:24 this year.

vmclach

It does, though. 80% slow and the other 20% is when you practice the fast running.

Hmm... Has this personally worked for you? I have not found success with it, I've actually gotten much slower doing this

Yes, definitely - if you run too fast all the time you'll improve just because you're doing plenty of running, but hit a plateau and stay there. It gets harder to improve the closer you get to your potential, so you won't be knocking massive chunks off your 5k time after 20 mins, but that's why you need to do much more focused speed training. And if you're doing all your easy running way too fast, you won't be in the best shape to really attack, say, 2 sessions of much faster work each week.

This week I'll have run 50 miles, of which no more than 10 will have been faster than my 'easy' pace. Ask me if it worked in a few weeks as I'm training for a 5k race.
[/quote]

I'd like to think my "potential" is much closer to 17:30 5k. But perhaps unrealistic

Hope the 5k goes well

litsy3

I'd like to think my "potential" is much closer to 17:30 5k. But perhaps unrealistic

Hope it is! But it'll take ages, probably years. Keep working at it! (slowly )

d0v3r13

i've only been running since october, and i certainly am not as fast as you, but i have run two 5ks and two halfs and i've increased my speed with every race. the most dramatic increase was between my first half (3 hrs even, flat ground) and my second half (2:52, loooooots of hills ). the major difference between the two (only one month apart) was that i trained on a massive hill once a week for the second half because it was a hilly course. i only did a 3 mile run on the hill but 1.5 miles was all uphill with a sharp incline and the other half of the run was back down the way i came. i gained a ton of strength in my hips especially. i also started taking a pilates class that focused on hips and legs.

basically, cross training that specifically assists your running, and running hills as resistance training. i had significant increases in my speed and endurance. hope it helps. like i said, i'm still fairly new to running but it was a really surprising result.

d0v3r13

btw, you guys are crazy fast. i hope to be that fast someday.

Irontri7

Do you do track work? My running club has weekly speed work at the track. An actual coach creates 2 workouts and can tailor them to everyone. I've gone for 4 weeks now and have noticed improvements already. Yesterday's workout was:

VO2 Max Workout
4-7 x 1000 meters (2 ½ laps)
• 3-4 minute recovery jog between reps
• Begin at current 5k race pace
• Progress to 3k race pace (10 seconds per mile faster)

Lactate Threshold Intervals – (L.T Pace).
• 5-7 x 1200 meters (3 laps)
• 90-120 second recovery.
• Start at L.T. Pace and progress to 10seconds per mile faster.

L.T. pace is 20-25 seconds per mile slower than 5k race pace
OR
A pace you could hold for a hard, one hour run.

fooninie

Hills and speedwork. FARTLEK-style training.

No_Finish_Line

It does, though. 80% slow and the other 20% is when you practice the fast running.

Hmm... Has this personally worked for you? I have not found success with it, I've actually gotten much slower doing this

Yes, definitely - if you run too fast all the time you'll improve just because you're doing plenty of running, but hit a plateau and stay there. It gets harder to improve the closer you get to your potential, so you won't be knocking massive chunks off your 5k time after 20 mins, but that's why you need to do much more focused speed training. And if you're doing all your easy running way too fast, you won't be in the best shape to really attack, say, 2 sessions of much faster work each week.

This week I'll have run 50 miles, of which no more than 10 will have been faster than my 'easy' pace. Ask me if it worked in a few weeks as I'm training for a 5k race.

Edit: but it has worked for other race distances too - I got my half marathon down from 1:28 last year to 1:24 this year.
[/quote]

that does kind of make sense.

the fartleks are a good idea too IMO

if it was me, i'd try to attack the problem with as many viable solutions as i could come up with. that training diversity would likely help all on its own.

thavoice

It does, though. 80% slow and the other 20% is when you practice the fast running.

Hmm... Has this personally worked for you? I have not found success with it, I've actually gotten much slower doing this

Yes, definitely - if you run too fast all the time you'll improve just because you're doing plenty of running, but hit a plateau and stay there. It gets harder to improve the closer you get to your potential, so you won't be knocking massive chunks off your 5k time after 20 mins, but that's why you need to do much more focused speed training. And if you're doing all your easy running way too fast, you won't be in the best shape to really attack, say, 2 sessions of much faster work each week.

This week I'll have run 50 miles, of which no more than 10 will have been faster than my 'easy' pace. Ask me if it worked in a few weeks as I'm training for a 5k race.

I'd like to think my "potential" is much closer to 17:30 5k. But perhaps unrealistic

Hope the 5k goes well
[/quote]
Cant wait. So I am assuming if you run a 17:45 you will start a thread complaining about those who told you "nice job"/

No_Finish_Line

^^ lol

DavidMartinez2

Carson is more smart than me on these things but the piling on of slow miles with a couple speed days is from the Lydiard school of marathon training. There are other plans out there that are based on fewer miles per week with more "quality" workouts. What works for one person may not work for another. If you feel like you have stagnated in your training I suggest trying something different for your next race. I would caution you that if you decide to go with a new training program complete the entire plan before you decide whether it was effective or not.

CarsonRuns

A lot of concensous in the long distance running community is to try to long lots of slow easy miles to get faster.

For example. I run a 20 min 5k... Just under 6:30 per mile.

When I go for an "easy run" I *should* be running 8-10 min pace

My progress has recently stalled.. I feel slow.. Sluggish..

This week I've been trying to do all my runs between 7:30-7 min pace. It feels really good.

Has anyone experienced improved speed by simply running fast every day?

But ARE you slow? The improvements at the shorter distances are not going to come in big chunks anymore. To get where you want to get to in the marathon, you need another year or two of high mileage. Running 6 marathons in a year is not the same as running 2500+ miles for two year. Doing all those races just prepares you mentally for the marathon. It takes lots of miles to prepare you psychically.

In addition, you are dealing with an upcoming wedding. This has to tire you out mentally and physically.

Lastly, it's getting hotter. That takes 3 weeks to acclimate to.

If you are REALLY committed to being the best runner you can be, you need to stop going all willy nilly on your training and vacillating between running a 100 miler and all that other junk. Hire a coach. Get a plan and stick with it. The results will come. Unfocused training will give you unfocused results.

Stoshew71

There are different ways to get faster. Also, your body needs a variety in training.

For me, since I am in the early stage of running, more miles equates to establishing a base which naturally increases speed.
For the more experienced runner, like yourself, speed work is required. So you add interval days, strides, maybe hill work.

But not EVERY workout is required to be 100% effort. Your body will eventually wear and tear if you don't give it time to recover.
So one day is dedicated for a speed workout. Maybe hills or stride intervals is done at full or almost full effort. This would be one day within a 7 day period or 10 day period or even 14 day period depending on your fitness level. Another workout may be a tempo run done once a week done at 80-90% effort. Another workout is a long slow run done at maybe 70-80% of your maximum.

The point is, not every workout should be 100% all out. You don't improve by what you actually do. You improve by what you don't do (your rest period). Your workouts stimulate your muscles so duing your rest periods, your body actually recovers and makes the improvements.

Does that make sense?

3dogsrunning

Before I answer, is there another thread that I need to be aware of?

jason_adams

Run Less, Run Faster - a book by the Running World Editors.
It outlines a 3plus2 training program.

3 runs per week: 1 interval, 1 tempo, 1 long
2 plus: replaces your "junk" or "recovery" runs with higher output alternate cardio workouts (stationary bike or rowing)

I am quite sure that you'll find you get faster on this.

PS. There's a lot of other good advice in the thread too!!

jsj024519

move to Nairobi!

Spodermun

sqot bro

jofjltncb6

Before I answer, is there another thread that I need to be aware of?

^this


I'm actually looking for a punchline.

MeanderingMammal

My progress has recently stalled.. I feel slow.. Sluggish..

when you asked about ultras it was pointed out that training for something like that was likely to lead to a difference in performance. I appreciate that you subsequently rushed into a 50K without much preparation, but in principle I'd see this as the issue.

Your goals appear to be all over the place. As I recall you've got a Boston place for next year, given the profile of that then I'd assume that's your big goal race. I'd suggest working your training plan around that, whichever plan you want to work to.

Lots of people do get benefit from the increased mileage approach, certainly up to HM distance it's an entirely workable approach, but you will see diminishing returns on it. What I've found each time I've increased the distance of my long run, or increasd my weekly mileage, is that I make rapid gains initially, then they tail off again, so I then need to increase the challenge on myself for more gains.

It's also not out of the question that you just need a bit of a break.

vmclach

My progress has recently stalled.. I feel slow.. Sluggish..

I appreciate that you subsequently rushed into a 50K without much preparation, but in principle I'd see this as the issue.

Your goals appear to be all over the place.

Wow. You are so correct since march 1st, I had ONLY ran a 20, 22, 21, 26.2, 19, 17, 16, 26.2 + in preperation for the 50k..

Totally "rushed"

Can you explain my phenomenal performance?

My goal are all over the place?

Oh so I wanting to get faster while training for ultras is all over the place? So be it.

CarsonRuns

Hire.A.Coach