Cyclist v Motorist
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I've never ridden on a road with a higher speed limit than 45mph in my life. And I never will. I ride bike paths and neighborhood roads.
A lot of that has to do with where you live. If you lived in another part of the states, there are lots of opportunities for excellent road rides on black top and pavement. Ditto in Europe.
Come on out and do RAGBRAI in Iowa with 20,000 others where we hog the entire right lane and ride across the state in 7 days.
Anyone willing to buy me a plane ticket to the states to do that? please please please. Singletracker can I stay at your place if someone buys me a ticket, oh and a bike when I get to the states.0 -
I'm glad I opened this thread. I've learned quite a bit. But I do have one question. Can someone please explain to me why someone would ride a bike on a two lane, extremely curvy, heavily wooded highway with practically no shoulder, where the speed limit is 55mph?
I can't tell you the number of times I've been trucking along doing 55-60mph, come around a curve, and found a bike right in front of me, with another car traveling towards me at 55-60mph. I have no choice at that point but to just barely squeeze between the bike and the other car, because it's not possible to slow down enough to ride behind the bike until it's safe to pass.
How about I play devil's advocate.....?
What would you do if you came around one of those corners and encountered a slow moving farm tractor in the lane? What if a deer was standing in the road? What if there was an emergency vehicle with flashing lights pulled over blocking the lane? What about a family of ducks or geese in the road? What about a slow moving school bus? Or a stopped school bus picking up or letting off a child at a driveway?
Just asked, because we do encounter a lot of things out on such highways that require us to slow or stop that do not involve a bicycle. I'd say you have the capability to slow or stop for all of it - so why not a bike?
Hmmmm....
I think she is exaggerating a bit. I’ve never seen and extreme curvy road, with no shoulder, and no visibility to slow traffic, where the speed limit is 60, but then I have only been driving these roads for 40 years. It sounds like she is driving too fast and too aggressively on this road.0 -
I'm glad I opened this thread. I've learned quite a bit. But I do have one question. Can someone please explain to me why someone would ride a bike on a two lane, extremely curvy, heavily wooded highway with practically no shoulder, where the speed limit is 55mph?
I can't tell you the number of times I've been trucking along doing 55-60mph, come around a curve, and found a bike right in front of me, with another car traveling towards me at 55-60mph. I have no choice at that point but to just barely squeeze between the bike and the other car, because it's not possible to slow down enough to ride behind the bike until it's safe to pass.
I don't know about your state, but in my state the speed limits are dictated by the nature of the road. If there are steep hills and blind corners, where you can't see what's ahead of you, they generally have lower speed limits on that section of road, or even on the whole road if it's all like that.
As someone else pointed out, it's not only bikes: there could be all kinds of things on the other side of that hill or corner. If you're going so fast that you can't stop within the distance of road you are able to see, then you're going too fast.
That said, a lot of people do drive way too fast for the road and/or conditions, so I don't ride on those kinds of roads. This is one of those things where the cyclist may be in the right and the driver in the wrong, but in any way that matters, the person with 3500 lbs of steel around them wins - even if the driver is in the wrong, it's still the cyclists' bones that get broken.0 -
my thoughts exactly. I've even had some idiots swerve my way when running or biking. people need to be more kind out there!0
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I'm glad I opened this thread. I've learned quite a bit. But I do have one question. Can someone please explain to me why someone would ride a bike on a two lane, extremely curvy, heavily wooded highway with practically no shoulder, where the speed limit is 55mph?
I can't tell you the number of times I've been trucking along doing 55-60mph, come around a curve, and found a bike right in front of me, with another car traveling towards me at 55-60mph. I have no choice at that point but to just barely squeeze between the bike and the other car, because it's not possible to slow down enough to ride behind the bike until it's safe to pass.
How about I play devil's advocate.....?
What would you do if you came around one of those corners and encountered a slow moving farm tractor in the lane? What if a deer was standing in the road? What if there was an emergency vehicle with flashing lights pulled over blocking the lane? What about a family of ducks or geese in the road? What about a slow moving school bus? Or a stopped school bus picking up or letting off a child at a driveway?
Just asked, because we do encounter a lot of things out on such highways that require us to slow or stop that do not involve a bicycle. I'd say you have the capability to slow or stop for all of it - so why not a bike?
Hmmmm....
You can typically see flashing lights through woods. I have yet to see anybody on a bike with any type of light, flashing or not. Yes, I see dead deer, cats, dogs, squirrels, etc on that road on almost a daily basis, which is why it completely baffles me that someone would ride a bike there.0 -
I'm glad I opened this thread. I've learned quite a bit. But I do have one question. Can someone please explain to me why someone would ride a bike on a two lane, extremely curvy, heavily wooded highway with practically no shoulder, where the speed limit is 55mph?
I can't tell you the number of times I've been trucking along doing 55-60mph, come around a curve, and found a bike right in front of me, with another car traveling towards me at 55-60mph. I have no choice at that point but to just barely squeeze between the bike and the other car, because it's not possible to slow down enough to ride behind the bike until it's safe to pass.
then you are driving to fast- or you forgot about your brake pedal. There is no reason to force the issue between an oncoming vehicle and the side vehicle/car/pedestrian.0 -
I'm glad I opened this thread. I've learned quite a bit. But I do have one question. Can someone please explain to me why someone would ride a bike on a two lane, extremely curvy, heavily wooded highway with practically no shoulder, where the speed limit is 55mph?
I can't tell you the number of times I've been trucking along doing 55-60mph, come around a curve, and found a bike right in front of me, with another car traveling towards me at 55-60mph. I have no choice at that point but to just barely squeeze between the bike and the other car, because it's not possible to slow down enough to ride behind the bike until it's safe to pass.
then you are driving to fast- or you forgot about your brake pedal. There is no reason to force the issue between an oncoming vehicle and the side vehicle/car/pedestrian.
^ Exactly. If you can't see around a bend YOU are going too fast0 -
I'm glad I opened this thread. I've learned quite a bit. But I do have one question. Can someone please explain to me why someone would ride a bike on a two lane, extremely curvy, heavily wooded highway with practically no shoulder, where the speed limit is 55mph?
I can't tell you the number of times I've been trucking along doing 55-60mph, come around a curve, and found a bike right in front of me, with another car traveling towards me at 55-60mph. I have no choice at that point but to just barely squeeze between the bike and the other car, because it's not possible to slow down enough to ride behind the bike until it's safe to pass.
then you are driving to fast- or you forgot about your brake pedal. There is no reason to force the issue between an oncoming vehicle and the side vehicle/car/pedestrian.
When I'm doing the speed limit? I slow down as much as I can. It's not like I'm flying past them still doing 55, but it is impossible to slow down to the 10 or so mph that they're going. But nevermind, I obviously chose the wrong thread to ask a question, that still no one has tried to answer. They'd rather just attack me, even though I was trying to be respectful.0 -
When I'm doing the speed limit? I slow down as much as I can. It's not like I'm flying past them still doing 55, but it is impossible to slow down to the 10 or so mph that they're going. But nevermind, I obviously chose the wrong thread to ask a question, that still no one has tried to answer. They'd rather just attack me, even though I was trying to be respectful.
My first thought when you mentioned a hilly curvy road with blind corners and a 55-60mph speed limit was that if the posted limit is really that high on such a road, authorities need to revisit the posted limit for such a highway. I've ridden my bike and driven on many similar roads around lakes, in mountains, etc... and speed limits are usually 35-45mph posted. So I was suprirsed when you said the limit was 55-60mph on such a road. Not that a posted speed limit gives us license or liberty to always drive the speed limit based on conditions (rain, snow, fog, blind corners, etc...) where we as motorirsts should proceed with caution at a safer than posted speed limit.
I wasn't attacking you in my devil's advocate post, but asking on such a highway you mention if you had to slow or stop for other things besides a cyclist, would you be able to do so? It was a simple question because as a motorist, I face daily conditions of school buses, farm equipment, deer, even the occasional horse and buggy (Amish) - all of which require slowing or stopping no matter what the posted speed limit is on a given road. Nobody "owns" the road as roads are designed to handle all forms of transportation and unless posted that is illegal for non-motorized traffice (such as a US Interestate), then part of being a licensed motorist is knowing that the roads you drive on will and should contain all types of transportation - legally. The me, me, me attitude of both motorists and cyclists needs to be kept in check and share the road principles apply. It is legal.
Below is a link to a video that I really wish everyone who has spoken negatively about cyclists watch. It is a video of a cyclist in Australia who always rides in the bike lane (legal), obeys traffic laws and you can see what a cyclist faces out on the road when riding legally in a bike line.
This pretty much represents what riding a bike is like (a bad video game with near death experiences) in whatever country - even when riding in the legal bike lane. The lane is usually on the right side in the US, but not always. And the same stuff happens in the US legally riding along in the provided bike lane to all of us on a daily basis...
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=101521375409376470 -
I've never ridden on a road with a higher speed limit than 45mph in my life. And I never will. I ride bike paths and neighborhood roads.
A lot of that has to do with where you live. If you lived in another part of the states, there are lots of opportunities for excellent road rides on black top and pavement. Ditto in Europe.
Come on out and do RAGBRAI in Iowa with 20,000 others where we hog the entire right lane and ride across the state in 7 days.
That looks fun!0 -
I've never ridden on a road with a higher speed limit than 45mph in my life. And I never will. I ride bike paths and neighborhood roads.
A lot of that has to do with where you live. If you lived in another part of the states, there are lots of opportunities for excellent road rides on black top and pavement. Ditto in Europe.
Come on out and do RAGBRAI in Iowa with 20,000 others where we hog the entire right lane and ride across the state in 7 days.
That looks fun!
It is fun! The world's largest rolling party for a week. This year is the 42nd annual running of it July 20 - 26. Obviously, it is a pretty crowded road no matter if you get up and leave at 6 AM every morning, or if you start at 10 AM with 20,000 cyclists out on Iowa rural roads crossing the state. It's not a race, just a fun ride of 45-85 miles per day. It's a great way to see the countryside, visit with people, eat, drink, and burn some calories. People come from all over the world to ride it.
http://ragbrai.com/0 -
When I'm doing the speed limit? I slow down as much as I can. It's not like I'm flying past them still doing 55, but it is impossible to slow down to the 10 or so mph that they're going. But nevermind, I obviously chose the wrong thread to ask a question, that still no one has tried to answer. They'd rather just attack me, even though I was trying to be respectful.
My first thought when you mentioned a hilly curvy road with blind corners and a 55-60mph speed limit was that if the posted limit is really that high on such a road, authorities need to revisit the posted limit for such a highway. I've ridden my bike and driven on many similar roads around lakes, in mountains, etc... and speed limits are usually 35-45mph posted. So I was suprirsed when you said the limit was 55-60mph on such a road. Not that a posted speed limit gives us license or liberty to always drive the speed limit based on conditions (rain, snow, fog, blind corners, etc...) where we as motorirsts should proceed with caution at a safer than posted speed limit.
I wasn't attacking you in my devil's advocate post, but asking on such a highway you mention if you had to slow or stop for other things besides a cyclist, would you be able to do so? It was a simple question because as a motorist, I face daily conditions of school buses, farm equipment, deer, even the occasional horse and buggy (Amish) - all of which require slowing or stopping no matter what the posted speed limit is on a given road. Nobody "owns" the road as roads are designed to handle all forms of transportation and unless posted that is illegal for non-motorized traffice (such as a US Interestate), then part of being a licensed motorist is knowing that the roads you drive on will and should contain all types of transportation - legally. The me, me, me attitude of both motorists and cyclists needs to be kept in check and share the road principles apply. It is legal.
Below is a link to a video that I really wish everyone who has spoken negatively about cyclists watch. It is a video of a cyclist in Australia who always rides in the bike lane (legal), obeys traffic laws and you can see what a cyclist faces out on the road when riding legally in a bike line.
This pretty much represents what riding a bike is like (a bad video game with near death experiences) in whatever country - even when riding in the legal bike lane. The lane is usually on the right side in the US, but not always. And the same stuff happens in the US legally riding along in the provided bike lane to all of us on a daily basis...
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152137540937647
I didn't feel that you were one of the ones attacking. I'm sorry it came across that way, and I did respond to your post that I see dead animals on the road on pretty much a daily basis. As far as a school bus, emergency vehicle, etc., they typically have flashing lights that can be seen through the woods. Also, a tractor is much larger/easier to see than a single person on a bike.
I also wasn't trying to speak negatively of bikers, or say that they don't belong on the road. I was just trying to understand why they would choose to ride on that particular road as opposed to the hundreds of other safe roads in my area.
Thanks for the video. That's very scary, and it's ridiculous that drivers act that way (I can assure you I'm not one that tries to be a jerk on purpose). I can imagine it's terrifying to be passed at 55mph no matter the circumstances, which is why I choose not to run on the highway, and I was trying to understand why someone would ride a bike there.0 -
When I'm doing the speed limit? I slow down as much as I can. It's not like I'm flying past them still doing 55, but it is impossible to slow down to the 10 or so mph that they're going. But nevermind, I obviously chose the wrong thread to ask a question, that still no one has tried to answer. They'd rather just attack me, even though I was trying to be respectful.
It's a limit, not a target.
Going back to my previous point about being trained in driving at high speed; maximum safe speed for the conditions. In theory the maximum safe speed for the conditions could be in excess of the speed limit, although without a warranted justification for breaching the limit using blues and twos even authorised vehicles shouldn't be going over the limit. The maximum safe speed for the conditions depends on vehicle condition, road condition, environmental factors, density of traffic, ambient and opportunity visibility, capability of the driver and the physical condition of the driver (tiredness, use of pharmaceuticals etc)
If you can't slow down enough in the space that you have visible to you, you're going too fast.0 -
I didn't feel that you were one of the ones attacking. I'm sorry it came across that way, and I did respond to your post that I see dead animals on the road on pretty much a daily basis. As far as a school bus, emergency vehicle, etc., they typically have flashing lights that can be seen through the woods. Also, a tractor is much larger/easier to see than a single person on a bike.
I also wasn't trying to speak negatively of bikers, or say that they don't belong on the road. I was just trying to understand why they would choose to ride on that particular road as opposed to the hundreds of other safe roads in my area.
Thanks for the video. That's very scary, and it's ridiculous that drivers act that way (I can assure you I'm not one that tries to be a jerk on purpose). I can imagine it's terrifying to be passed at 55mph no matter the circumstances, which is why I choose not to run on the highway, and I was trying to understand why someone would ride a bike there.
If you drive on such a road with Cyclists on it and you are unable to control the vehicle you are in then the question is why are you driving on roads on which you represent a danger to other travelers?
On a bike, we generally travel on the roads that get us where we are going. Sometimes we don't even have a choice if there is the wooded road of high speed curves and the interstate we take the one we are allowed on.
Why would you even think about driving on the same road at the uncontrollable speed you travel at if you know the outcome is potentially death or horrible injury for another human being?
Not trying to be rude, seriously curious what the thought process is where one would drive around a blind corner at 55 mph and think life is pretty dandy.0 -
I didn't feel that you were one of the ones attacking. I'm sorry it came across that way, and I did respond to your post that I see dead animals on the road on pretty much a daily basis. As far as a school bus, emergency vehicle, etc., they typically have flashing lights that can be seen through the woods. Also, a tractor is much larger/easier to see than a single person on a bike.
I also wasn't trying to speak negatively of bikers, or say that they don't belong on the road. I was just trying to understand why they would choose to ride on that particular road as opposed to the hundreds of other safe roads in my area.
Thanks for the video. That's very scary, and it's ridiculous that drivers act that way (I can assure you I'm not one that tries to be a jerk on purpose). I can imagine it's terrifying to be passed at 55mph no matter the circumstances, which is why I choose not to run on the highway, and I was trying to understand why someone would ride a bike there.
If you drive on such a road with Cyclists on it and you are unable to control the vehicle you are in then the question is why are you driving on roads on which you represent a danger to other travelers?
On a bike, we generally travel on the roads that get us where we are going. Sometimes we don't even have a choice if there is the wooded road of high speed curves and the interstate we take the one we are allowed on.
Why would you even think about driving on the same road at the uncontrollable speed you travel at if you know the outcome is potentially death or horrible injury for another human being?
Not trying to be rude, seriously curious what the thought process is where one would drive around a blind corner at 55 mph and think life is pretty dandy.
Where would you be going on a bike in the middle of nowhere? Literally at least 20 miles to any sort of "town" or business either direction.
Anyway, sorry for hijacking your thread, OP. I should have known better than to ask a question.0 -
Where would you be going on a bike in the middle of nowhere? Literally at least 20 miles to any sort of "town" or business either direction.
A long training ride?
I have a 20 mile circuit route from the end of my driveway that is all on roads with a 60mph limit.
I'll do that then jump off for a 5Km run
20 is a fairly short ride0 -
man, you should see new york city. i don't know what is worse, the drivers just cruising around trying to hit the cyclists and then double parking in the bike lane.
or the cyclists that seem to have no regard for the rules, blowing through red lights, not wearing a helmet (not a law to wear one, just common sense!!) and listening to music while riding (the law states only one headphone may be worn).
however, a recent article has found that while cycling in new york city has gone up considerably, accidents have actually gone down.0 -
This thread took a turn for the crazy. I have never been afraid of road riding until I read some of these comments. Some of you need anger management and I'm thankful that you live far away from me.0
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I have no problem giving cyclists their space and generally show a lot of patience when I come up to cyclists on the road. However, I tend to lose that patience when I come across a group of riders who are holding up traffic and making it impossible for cars to pass for miles. If you have a car stuck behind you for more than a couple minutes the polite thing to do, in my opinion, would be to pull off the road and let them by. I think sharing the road is the responsibility of both sides.
DITTO!
Cyclists should stay on the sidewalk where possible, and so should pedestrians, or on bike/walking trails. Don't think you'd be too happy about being tailgated by a car while on a bike trail, eh? I spend a fair amount of time driving from appointment to appointment, and it's really frustrating being behind someone who's going half the speed limit for recreational purposes.
To be fair to the OP, it sounds like the guy he encountered was just a jerk, but consideration and courtesy goes both ways.
It's also a safety issue. A couple of years ago, two cyclists were killed by a truck who was going up a hill with the sun in his eyes. Two parents are dead, and their kids (can't remember how many) are growing up without their parents, and the driver has the psychological issues of having killed two people to deal with, all because the cyclists wanted to ride on a road meant for cars instead of the sidewalk or a bike trail.0 -
yeah, going back and reading all the comments is making me rage a little. i'm also recalling all the things i see cyclists do while i'm riding, or when i'm driving, which also make me rage.
i do my best to pay attention to the traffic signals. a rolling stop in new york city is illegal for a cyclist. i need to treat red lights and stop signs as if i were in a motor vehicle. i admit that i don't always do that. i try and use my best judgement on each scenario, but sometimes i will roll through a stop sign or red light while on my bike.
i always ride with the flow of traffic, no if's and's or butts. for me it's more intimidating to have a car be coming at me than for it to be coming up behind me. and i stay to the left in single lane roads, and to the right on roads with more than one lane.
i use hand signals, and clear my blind spot when turning. i know i'm not moving as fast as Vin Diesel behind me, so i try and be courteous, and generally find that i'll be given the right of way. in brooklyn when you're coming up to a double parked delivery van, you just need to go slow and make deliberate moves.
btw, it's cyclists. Bikers are something else entirely.0
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