Cyclist v Motorist
Replies
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Even if the driver tried to push you off the road, you said you bashed his window in for respect. Well more than a few drivers would have responded with pushing you off the road permanently.
What I said was this, "Yes, but it also shows them that cyclists don't necessarily make easy targets. Add a little fear in the mix, drivers are really quick to start being respectful. And I'm all bunched up about pissing sorry *kitten* drivers off."
Meaning that, like all cowards, when bullies are confronted with violence, they tuck their ignorant tails between their legs and run away. It's the same way with bullies on the street. The first punch in the nose and they become respectful real quick.
If things escalate, I'm prepared for that. This crap happens all too frequently around here. If you were ever stupid enough to bump me to show me you mean business, you'd be on the other end of a bad day.
If you can't understand the difference between self defense and aggression, you have no business around cyclists, pedestrians, or anybody else in your path.0 -
A few times I tapped some folks with my car just to let them know that I mean business.
I said I have never tapped cyclists, but I have tapped a few pedestrians under the circumstances I stated previously. I may be a little crazy, especially when I am behind the wheel, I prefer to be called aggressive, but I would never be crazy enough to think to go against a car while I am a pedestrian, cyclist or biker. I think you have a lot of crazy in you too. Even if the driver tried to push you off the road, you said you bashed his window in for respect. Well more than a few drivers would have responded with pushing you off the road permanently. I have seen road rage incidents turn violent over a lot less than bashed windows. I think you should consider therapy since you think a bashing in people's windows in an appropriate response to drivers having poor cyclist etiquette or that a baton can go toe to toe with 3 tons of metal. Perhaps you should consider riding your bike on the trails instead of bashing in the windows of vehicles that don't give you adequate space.
Tapping/hitting people with your car is more crazy than hitting a vehicle that crowds you (not that I think that a great idea either though)
I find it interesting that you feel you are justified in "tapping" pedestrians that make you sit through two lights (no physical danger to you) but you think the other poster needs therapy because he retaliated when he was in danger in getting knocked off his bike in traffic.
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I wasn't justified, but in an aggressive environment you adapt to survive and In NYC when there are a bunch of cars blowing their horns behind you, cursing you for not being more aggressive with the pedestrians, then you do what you feel is appropriate. Driving there is like driving no where else I have ever driven. I am a lot less aggressive on the road when I am in other places, but if tested, yes it will come out. Still i have never injured anyone nor have I intentionally caused property damage like this guy did. We can debate which act was craziest, but one is certainly more dangerous. He could have taken down the plate and reported the guy, but he damaged his property which is a crime and would be enough for most drivers to consider using their vehicle as a weapon. Also if he had time to bash in the guys window, then he had time to get someplace safe. He chose not to do that, but to have a violent confrontation. Since the guy didn't retaliate, it is safe to say that he didn't intend to ignore the cyclist's safety, because if he meant this guy harm then he wouldn't be around to tell the story. Still, the fact remains that there are a large percentage of drivers like myself who would have retaliated by using our vehicles as a weapon to any cyclist who thinks it is wise to use a baton to bash in my window.0 -
Still, the fact remains that there are a large percentage of drivers like myself who would have retaliated by using our vehicles as a weapon to any cyclist who thinks it is wise to use a baton to bash in my window.
Not to interject in your lovely conversation thread (I like many others are waiting for you two to start making out), but the idea of ever attempting murder in response to anything short of being murdered is a pretty good way to end up in jail.
I'm sure you are just full of bravado but honestly, when you accidently hit someone and these records come up pointing out that you have planned the death of bikers you might regret the claims you have made.
Welcome to the internet, where everything is evidence.0 -
Even if the driver tried to push you off the road, you said you bashed his window in for respect. Well more than a few drivers would have responded with pushing you off the road permanently.
What I said was this, "Yes, but it also shows them that cyclists don't necessarily make easy targets. Add a little fear in the mix, drivers are really quick to start being respectful. And I'm all bunched up about pissing sorry *kitten* drivers off."
Meaning that, like all cowards, when bullies are confronted with violence, they tuck their ignorant tails between their legs and run away. It's the same way with bullies on the street. The first punch in the nose and they become respectful real quick.
If things escalate, I'm prepared for that. This crap happens all too frequently around here. If you were ever stupid enough to bump me to show me you mean business, you'd be on the other end of a bad day.
If you can't understand the difference between self defense and aggression, you have no business around cyclists, pedestrians, or anybody else in your path.
I guess we just can't agree, because I see your act of bashing the driver's window as aggression and any response by the driver would be self-defense. You want drivers to fear cyclists, then you really are crazy. Why should drivers fear cyclists? Drivers should not set out to target cyclists, but cyclist who respond with violence to drivers who piss them off must have a death wish. Even with cars, yes cars cut each other off everyday causing near accidents. If you get out your car and bash the window of the other car for almost hitting you then you are being aggressive, not defending yourself and you should be prepared for an equally violent reaction from the other party. Perhaps you are used to people who don't retaliate, but where I am from violence usually is met with more violence. I don' t know who these meek people are that are running and hiding from a cyclist with a baton. And yes if I did bump you, whether by accident or on purpose because you were doing something stupid in the road, and you bashed my windows in, I will run you over, so you won't have to worry about bicycle etiquette again. I guess it will be a bad day for me because I would have to get my Benz serviced, but it would be a much worse day for you buddy0 -
Still, the fact remains that there are a large percentage of drivers like myself who would have retaliated by using our vehicles as a weapon to any cyclist who thinks it is wise to use a baton to bash in my window.
Not to interject in your lovely conversation thread (I like many others are waiting for you two to start making out), but the idea of ever attempting murder in response to anything short of being murdered is a pretty good way to end up in jail.
I'm sure you are just full of bravado but honestly, when you accidently hit someone and these records come up pointing out that you have planned the death of bikers you might regret the claims you have made.
Welcome to the internet, where everything is evidence.
I am not concerned, because unless someone bashes my windows in which is a direct threat to me, then cyclists are safe across the world. If anyone should be worried, it is the guy who has admitted to property damage. I hope that driver is not a member of MFP and haven't been able to track him down to cover the repairs.0 -
I guess we just can't agree, because I see your act of bashing the driver's window as aggression and any response by the driver would be self-defense.
And you are missing a pretty critical point, if the car is close enough to bash while driving than the car in question is too close.
A bit too extreme for me, I just kick them myself but to each their own I guess.0 -
I guess we just can't agree, because I see your act of bashing the driver's window as aggression and any response by the driver would be self-defense.
And you are missing a pretty critical point, if the car is close enough to bash while driving than the car in question is too close.
A bit too extreme for me, I just kick them myself but to each their own I guess.
She's missing a bunch of critical points. Like I said before, she's frikkin bonkers.0 -
I guess we just can't agree, because I see your act of bashing the driver's window as aggression and any response by the driver would be self-defense.
And you are missing a pretty critical point, if the car is close enough to bash while driving than the car in question is too close.
A bit too extreme for me, I just kick them myself but to each their own I guess.
She's missing a bunch of critical points. Like I said before, she's frikkin bonkers.
Says the man who admits on the internet that he bashed in a driver's window because he came too close all to show driver's that cyclists aren't easy targets. Yes that may work in Virginia, but I hope you aren't bonkers enough to try that nationwide. And regardless if the driver was that close, you responded violently. So you can't justify it. You also said you did it for respect, so you believe your violent act and causing property damage will teach drivers a lesson. How does that help cyclists get respect, if anything it hurts the cyclist/motorist relationship even further. Just think you are in a vehicle and want all the rights of the road, but you don't have to carry insurance, yet you just caused property damage to other vehicle because you were pissed. You get to pedal off, while that driver is left with hundreds of dollars of damage and you aren't culpable. If it had been reverse the driver would be on the hook. You are claiming self defense, but in reality you are the aggressor because you are choosing to confront others on the road violently and you are naive enough to not expect violence in return.
You had many options to deal with the situation, but you chose to bash someone's window in and you are on here telling folks this is a feasible option. I am saying it isn't, because not all drivers will tolerate that behavior. Unless a driver is purposely trying to push you off the road in an attempt to kill or seriously harm you, then bashing in their windows is not the answer.
Drivers need to do a better job of giving cyclists room, but bashing people's windows in because they aren't sharing the road to your satisfaction? Really? That is a great way to get that message across to motorists.0 -
"Says the man who admits on the internet that he bashed in a driver's window because he came too close all to show driver's that cyclists aren't easy targets. Yes that may work in Virginia, but I hope you aren't bonkers enough to try that nationwide. And regardless if the driver was that close, you responded violently."
Of COURSE I responded with violence when someone was FORCING ME OFF THE ROAD. If you did that, I wouldn't fiddle around with the baton. I'd put a bullet in your head. It would still be SELF DEFENSE. And I've lived in NY, toots. Please don't play that sissy *kitten* card.0 -
I guess we just can't agree, because I see your act of bashing the driver's window as aggression and any response by the driver would be self-defense.
And you are missing a pretty critical point, if the car is close enough to bash while driving than the car in question is too close.
A bit too extreme for me, I just kick them myself but to each their own I guess.
She's missing a bunch of critical points. Like I said before, she's frikkin bonkers.
Says the man who admits on the internet that he bashed in a driver's window because he came too close all to show driver's that cyclists aren't easy targets. Yes that may work in Virginia, but I hope you aren't bonkers enough to try that nationwide. the road in an attempt to kill or seriously harm you, then bashing in their windows is not the answer.
Drivers need to do a better job of giving cyclists room, but bashing people's windows in because they aren't sharing the road to your satisfaction? Really? That is a great way to get that message across to motorists.
Says the woman who admits to hitting pedestrians on purpose with her car. That might work in NYC but will get you arrested in Toronto.
Assault > property damage0 -
I didn't know that, thanks! The bicyclists really annoy me where I live because they DO do this, and I always seem to run into them when I am about to turn a blind corner so it really gets frustrating, not their fault, just seems to be what always happens, AND we have a beautiful bike trail that no one seems to use their actual bikes on, so it's frustrating....
I love to utilize a beautiful bike trail. Where I currently live - or near where I live - we are blessed to have about 4 or 5 excellent options (one is 72 miles long, one is 44 mile round trip; one is a 26 mile round trip; one is a 50 mile round trip, and the other I'm not sure as I have never ridden it). These are trails built out in the open farm land where you can really put the power to the pedals and not have to slow down for other trail users, road crossings, etc...as they are out in the open prairie of the Midwest.
The caveat being - you have to get to the trails and it is sort of silly for many of us to load up the bikes in a car, drive to a trailhead, unpack the bikes and go for a ride. Sort of defeats the purpose of saving fossil fuels, the environment, etc... . However, I do load up and take the bikes to several of those trails as they are more than 25 miles from my front door. The one that is close enough (just a few miles away), I must ride on the road from my house to get to it.
As I said about those trails where I live, they are all the type where you can really let it out and ride fast for a long time without interruption. That is not the case on many trails around the US. I used to live in California (East Bay Area) and riding the bike trails (Iron Horse was one I frequented) there were frustrating because they are filled with baby strollers, walkers, joggers, slower riders, stop signs nearly every block or two and as a cyclist - you simply could not get moving and let it out to enjoy a good cardio burn work out. You were always stopping every few minutes to cross a street. Slowing to wait until you could pass. Waiting at a stop light. It was more like a series of sprints and you felt you never really got the bike rolling to get your miles in. Hence, the desire and choice by many cyclists who are out exercising for cardio to get steady state, tempo riding work in that is hard to do on a bike trail in urban areas where there are so many street crossings, stop signs, stop lights, pedestrians, joggers, baby strollers, slower riders that it borders on being a video game with difficulties to get your HR up.
Not saying that trails like that are not still beautiful and offer an option that appeals to many, but just trying to explain why you sometimes see cyclists not utilizing those trails. They many not go where the cyclist wants to go (commuters or cyclists riding a bike as transportation). They may not have enough flow to get the bike up to speed due to all the stop signs, crossings, trail traffic, etc... . They may not be near the cyclists house. Or the cyclists might be seeking other places to ride on the road where they can ride uninterrupted for 30, 60, 90, 120, 180+ minutes. The open road provides that more than a lot of the urban multi-use trails.
Since this is a fitness and exercise forum, hopefully one can appreciate an endurance athlete's need for steady state and tempo rides that consider anything less than a 90 minute ride to be too short to count. Give me a bike trail that provides that and is close to my house and I'm there. However, not everyone has that luxury.0 -
My husband and I saw two cyclists blow right through their stop sign at a 4-way stop. No stopping, no waiting for their turn. There was us and a car at the stop sign across from us and we were about to go when all of a sudden these cyclist come wizzing past us. I am glad we saw them last minute.
I am more than happy to give you the space you need on the road, but when I see people not following the rules I get annoyed. If something happens, my car is safer for me, than your bike is for you, and I would feel absolutely terrified if I hit a cyclist, because I understand the damage my SUV could do to a cyclist, so I would prefer if ALL parties were doing their part to follow the rules.0 -
Whether it is a motorist or cyclist, I am amazed at the number of people who are oblivious to what is going on around them.
I have been on both sides. I get irritated when riding on the shoulder and a car will not go around me. On the other side, I get irritated when a cyclist will not move over to allow me to pass safely. I get irritated a lot :explode:0 -
why do some car drivers believe that bikes should not be on the road
Because they are inconsiderate *kitten* holes. That ish PISSES ME OFF!!!!!! I'm a cyclist too. The irresponsible cyclists aside, we are not protected by a shell of metal and fiberglass and the drivers who go out of their way to cross in front of us to make a right turn and either barely miss us or just hit us, are effing eff wads.
If a cyclist is blowing through stop signs then he gets what he gets, but a lot of us are not doing that and we still get the shaft.0 -
HOWEVER, there are some roads that are just not worth riding. Narrow winding highway roads, why would you WANT to ride on that unless you're on a motorcycle?
If there is no room on the road for you, find another road. If you commute, well, again find another road. Sometimes it's not worth the fight or risk.0 -
A few times I tapped some folks with my car just to let them know that I mean business.
BTW, I learned how to drive in Manhattan where you must be aggressive to survive. I know many native New Yorkers who are afraid to drive there for that reason. .
Ummmm, no. You do not need to be "aggressive to survive" and I'm a native New Yorker. Driving rules apply anywhere and brakes and lights work on most if not all cars and need to be used. A gas pedal is not a weapon although you'd think some of these tools are in the Serengeti running from lions. They are the exception, not the rule. Been driving and riding in NYC most of my life and it took me moving to Fairfax, Virginia to get hit by a car driven by a woman making a right turn on red while looking to her left as she turned. I was on my bicycle, I paused at the corner and she still hit me. Go figure.0 -
Still, the fact remains that there are a large percentage of drivers like myself who would have retaliated by using our vehicles as a weapon to any cyclist who thinks it is wise to use a baton to bash in my window.
Not to interject in your lovely conversation thread (I like many others are waiting for you two to start making out), but the idea of ever attempting murder in response to anything short of being murdered is a pretty good way to end up in jail.
I'm sure you are just full of bravado but honestly, when you accidently hit someone and these records come up pointing out that you have planned the death of bikers you might regret the claims you have made.
Welcome to the internet, where everything is evidence.
I am not concerned, because unless someone bashes my windows in which is a direct threat to me, then cyclists are safe across the world. If anyone should be worried, it is the guy who has admitted to property damage. I hope that driver is not a member of MFP and haven't been able to track him down to cover the repairs.
No it isn't. It's property damage, not a direct threat to your person. Essentially what you're saying is that you're willing to kill someone over some broken glass. Are you going to shoot someone who keys your car? Stab someone to death because they slash your tires? Unless he pulls a gun and is taking aim, "self defense" is not a viable alibi for trying to kill a cyclist.
Do I think smashing windows is the right way to get a message across? Not personally, no. Does that make running someone down with a deadly vehicle acceptable? Not by a long shot.0 -
[/quote]The story you spoke of.... the guys in the range rover would never have touched the biker had he not Brake Checked him. The biker was totally at fault. Its a tragic outcome but the biker started the mess.
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Damn right it was the bikers fault! AND I also ride a motorcycle. If people want to get themselves killed, it's their right but they don't need to drag the rest of the driving world into their deathwish.
Those bikers ruin it for the rest of us who would like to keep living and having fun.0 -
One of the things I keep seeing mentioned is why bike users don't use bike paths and instead ride on the street.
For those not in the know, it might seem odd but more often than not there is a reason.
For me, the biggest reason I avoid SOME of the dedicated bike paths and ride on the adjoining streets is simply because in my city, Minneapolis, paths through parks are often limited to 10 mph which is slow even to my 250 lbs butt riding an old mountain bike.
Additionally, as some other folks have mentioned, bike paths, in some areas, can be littered with people walking in the bike lane oblivious to the fact that there is a dedicated walking lane / path for them to be in. Even though they are terrified by each and every passing bike, it never occurs to them that they are in a lane of moving traffic and that there is essentially a sidewalk off on the side where they can walk safely.
Normally these issues clear up when away from popular parks or at least become more manageable and then I get right back onto the nice bike trails we have here for the rest of the ride.0 -
, i was following the rules of the road, while cycling and pulling a trailer behind me carrying my two children. i was taking my daughter to school.
HOW DARE YOU PUT ME IN A POSITION TO HARM YOUR CHILDREN? I just don't get it, really. I took a rickshaw on a whim once in NYC was too terrified to enjoy it. I bought a fold up bike to make it easier to get to trails and parks. Biking on main roads in city traffic seems stupid and irresponsible to me.
He is not putting you in a position where you may harm his children. The poster has every right to take his children to school in a bike trailer if he wishes. If you want to drive around oblivious to what is going on around you that is YOUR CHOICE.0 -
, i was following the rules of the road, while cycling and pulling a trailer behind me carrying my two children. i was taking my daughter to school.
HOW DARE YOU PUT ME IN A POSITION TO HARM YOUR CHILDREN? I just don't get it, really. I took a rickshaw on a whim once in NYC was too terrified to enjoy it. I bought a fold up bike to make it easier to get to trails and parks. Biking on main roads in city traffic seems stupid and irresponsible to me.
He is not putting you in a position where you may harm his children. The poster has every right to take his children to school in a bike trailer if he wishes. If you want to drive around oblivious to what is going on around you that is YOUR CHOICE.
I've always maintained that our greatest freedom in America is the freedom to be idiots. and that's how I look at people who tow their kids in heavy traffic. it's terrifying.0 -
In the city when traffic is clear it’s much safer for me to go through red lights to get away from all the congestion around the intersections. I’m sorry you feel you have to lay on your horn or the need to scream at me when you drive by. It’s just much safer for all of us that’s on the road together to have separation at the intersections. I’m not risking my life I’m just trying to stay alive. I worry more about road rage against bicyclists than anything.0
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I'm glad I opened this thread. I've learned quite a bit. But I do have one question. Can someone please explain to me why someone would ride a bike on a two lane, extremely curvy, heavily wooded highway with practically no shoulder, where the speed limit is 55mph?
I can't tell you the number of times I've been trucking along doing 55-60mph, come around a curve, and found a bike right in front of me, with another car traveling towards me at 55-60mph. I have no choice at that point but to just barely squeeze between the bike and the other car, because it's not possible to slow down enough to ride behind the bike until it's safe to pass.0 -
I'm glad I opened this thread. I've learned quite a bit. But I do have one question. Can someone please explain to me why someone would ride a bike on a two lane, extremely curvy, heavily wooded highway with practically no shoulder, where the speed limit is 55mph?
I can't tell you the number of times I've been trucking along doing 55-60mph, come around a curve, and found a bike right in front of me, with another car traveling towards me at 55-60mph. I have no choice at that point but to just barely squeeze between the bike and the other car, because it's not possible to slow down enough to ride behind the bike until it's safe to pass.
I ride to and from work and on trails on the weekends. You would never catch me on that road you speak of.0 -
I have no choice at that point but to just barely squeeze between the bike and the other car, because it's not possible to slow down enough to ride behind the bike until it's safe to pass.
When I was learning to drive, and when I was doing high speed driving courses, I was always taught how to maximise my visibility, on the basis that I should be able to stop in the distance visible to me. If I suddenly find myself with insufficient space to stop then I'm going too fast.
Even running under blues and twos the same principle applies.0 -
I'm glad I opened this thread. I've learned quite a bit. But I do have one question. Can someone please explain to me why someone would ride a bike on a two lane, extremely curvy, heavily wooded highway with practically no shoulder, where the speed limit is 55mph?
I can't tell you the number of times I've been trucking along doing 55-60mph, come around a curve, and found a bike right in front of me, with another car traveling towards me at 55-60mph. I have no choice at that point but to just barely squeeze between the bike and the other car, because it's not possible to slow down enough to ride behind the bike until it's safe to pass.
I ride to and from work and on trails on the weekends. You would never catch me on that road you speak of.
That's what I would think any sane person would say. I don't run on the highway for the same reasons listed above, which only leaves me two options. 1. Run up and down my quarter mile long road, which is incredibly boring. And 2. Drive somewhere where I can run safely. Both options suck, but I still choose them over running on the highway.0 -
I have no choice at that point but to just barely squeeze between the bike and the other car, because it's not possible to slow down enough to ride behind the bike until it's safe to pass.
When I was learning to drive, and when I was doing high speed driving courses, I was always taught how to maximise my visibility, on the basis that I should be able to stop in the distance visible to me. If I suddenly find myself with insufficient space to stop then I'm going too fast.
Even running under blues and twos the same principle applies.
Oh, ok.0 -
I'm glad I opened this thread. I've learned quite a bit. But I do have one question. Can someone please explain to me why someone would ride a bike on a two lane, extremely curvy, heavily wooded highway with practically no shoulder, where the speed limit is 55mph?
I can't tell you the number of times I've been trucking along doing 55-60mph, come around a curve, and found a bike right in front of me, with another car traveling towards me at 55-60mph. I have no choice at that point but to just barely squeeze between the bike and the other car, because it's not possible to slow down enough to ride behind the bike until it's safe to pass.
How about I play devil's advocate.....?
What would you do if you came around one of those corners and encountered a slow moving farm tractor in the lane? What if a deer was standing in the road? What if there was an emergency vehicle with flashing lights pulled over blocking the lane? What about a family of ducks or geese in the road? What about a slow moving school bus? Or a stopped school bus picking up or letting off a child at a driveway?
Just asked, because we do encounter a lot of things out on such highways that require us to slow or stop that do not involve a bicycle. I'd say you have the capability to slow or stop for all of it - so why not a bike?
Hmmmm....0 -
I'm glad I opened this thread. I've learned quite a bit. But I do have one question. Can someone please explain to me why someone would ride a bike on a two lane, extremely curvy, heavily wooded highway with practically no shoulder, where the speed limit is 55mph?
I can't tell you the number of times I've been trucking along doing 55-60mph, come around a curve, and found a bike right in front of me, with another car traveling towards me at 55-60mph. I have no choice at that point but to just barely squeeze between the bike and the other car, because it's not possible to slow down enough to ride behind the bike until it's safe to pass.
How about I play devil's advocate.....?
What would you do if you came around one of those corners and encountered a slow moving farm tractor in the lane? What if a deer was standing in the road? What if there was an emergency vehicle with flashing lights pulled over blocking the lane? What about a family of ducks or geese in the road? What about a slow moving school bus? Or a stopped school bus picking up or letting off a child at a driveway?
Just asked, because we do encounter a lot of things out on such highways that require us to slow or stop that do not involve a bicycle. I'd say you have the capability to slow or stop for all of it - so why not a bike?
Hmmmm....
I've never ridden on a road with a higher speed limit than 45mph in my life. And I never will. I ride bike paths and neighborhood roads.0 -
I've never ridden on a road with a higher speed limit than 45mph in my life. And I never will. I ride bike paths and neighborhood roads.
A lot of that has to do with where you live. If you lived in another part of the states, there are lots of opportunities for excellent road rides on black top and pavement. Ditto in Europe.
Come on out and do RAGBRAI in Iowa with 20,000 others where we hog the entire right lane and ride across the state in 7 days.
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