Supplements and Weight Gain

MrTolerable

Gentleman, I have learned a great deal from you. Thanks for your previous input - particularly from the lean MityMax96 I was able to see immediate improvement on my six pack. Since I achieved my goal of getting the six pack I immediately sought to gain weight because I was at one point 146lbs and was initially trying to maintain a weight of 150lbs while lowering my body fat percentage till I had a clear six pack.

Regardless, goals were met and since that I am currently consuming about 2,000-2200 calories daily - much easier than a measly 1800, and I am now taking Creatine, C4, B6 supplement, and of course supplementing a great deal of the protein I consume (I'm feeling happier/healthier with the 2200 daily calorie intake). - I have seen immediate progress in my weight gain - I have shot up to 156.4 lbs as of Sunday, and after a reweigh I am looking to be at 156.1 lbs - my goal would be to someday be somewhere around 180 lbs because I'm 5' 10" however I don't want to sacrifice my six pack gains while pursuing the weight gain goal - and I have, but only marginally so far. I know you guys aren't fans of the body fat percentage on the scale but I use it as a utensil to tell me where I'm at with my six pack journey. When I was at my lightest at 146 lbs my bodyfatpercentage was coming back at 11.4% - and my six pack looked eh.. it looked really good when I flexed and you could tell I had a 4 pack sorta without flexing..being honest it is still NO WHERE like MityMax96 and someday I want to be there - but I need to get bigger before I start trying to get sub 10% body fat- and he is no doubt sub 5%.

=P I know the hardwork he puts in must be asinine, I am well aware of how unrealistic that goal is not being a body builder - but aim for the stars, and I'll land on at least a cloud ;bb

Any who.. I weigh 156.1 lbs at this moment and the body fat % is reporting 12.2% - and my sixpack has taken a marginal hit visibly, however I feel bigger and healthier - finally can lift more than my body weight on a few upper body and lower body strength exercises... - another goal of mine met. rows, smith machine, some military press-like exercise... (my chest is getting veinny ;b )


Regardless - supplements are being used daily because I need to look like a beast at the beach this year so I have a clear date on the calendar when I'm going back to all natural (aside from protein shakes) consumption.



Six Pack > Weighing more

So packing on only lean weight - would you guys consume more protein (lean meats) and fats to increase your weight while keeping your body fat percentage low? - I ask this because I tend to do incredibly intense circuit strength training (full body) basically 4 days a week. I then do cardio (run 2 miles) after circuit training and then do another 15 mins on the belly after the run. (weighted situps).. for the most part. - and now power cleaners and floor sweepers. - on off days I do fast walks (5 miles +) or just run 3-5 miles.


ORRR Would you guys do the lean meat, and carbs consumption where I consume like eh carbs like oatmeal, and that sorta food? - I HATE sprinting, but I just started to do uphill sprints every time on my runs I encounter a hill to take advantage of that HIIT stuff I was told to do on here... I also do 5-7 mins of very intense jump roping - I do 45 secs on and then take a 30 sec breather and do 5 doubles (making that rope go around ya twice) 5 times within every 45 secs... so I know 5-7mins sounds really wussy right now.. but its exhausting.


- Question - best way to gain weight, lean muscle while not killing all the work I put into my six pack... I really really really would like to be at 163-4 lbs and 10.5-11% body fat by July 18th.

Also the supplements I mentioned are new to me - and the results.... they are intense to say the least.. that C4 (half a scooper) - woooowsa. - keep it up? what do you pro's do?

I literally started the C4 two days ago, met a guy at a wedding who went from a cut 5'8" 160 lbs - to a cut 240lbs in 8 months... and swore by it... and of course he swore by a paleolithic type diet as well.

MrTolerable

Anyone?!

I take input from you guys seriously!!

MityMax96

Hey mate, thanks for the praise....I appreciate it.
Leaves me speechless....

Regarding your goals, your desire to pack on muscle/mass will also include some BF, so the abs will take a hit.

I am already setting myself mentally for this as well, because I plan on starting August 1, to start upping calories and putting on weight.

Now there was an AARR that was released today talking about high protein consumption....I briefly saw where they said those taking the high protein amounts did not show any significant fat increase....or something to that effect.
I need to go back and reread it, because I didn't have time to go through it all the way earlier.

For me when I start, I plan to up my carbs and up my protein.

But putting on muscle is one of those things that takes time.....a lot.

Doing all the cardio you mentioned, you will need to make sure you consume enough calories to handle that extra work....
Or your weight gains are gonna suck. If you get any at all.

As far as supps go
I do Multi-vitamin, protein powder, BCAAs and a pre-workout....I cycle on and off the pre-workout.

MityMax96

One other thing I will say....

Diet is far more important than supps.

If that ain't right, supps will do nothing for you

MrTolerable

BCAAs - I read about the benefits - however I also read to avoid these until I hit my first plateau. - you agree with that or should I incorporate that into my daily intake?

And diet - so reading that right, you are recommending high protein consumption as in.. 200-215 grams daily (40-45%)- lean meats and protein shakes? And then not-so-bad carbs as well, lotsa veggies and oatmeal? But avoid the fat foods?

I know the most important part of the six-pack is the diet so I want to make sure I'm going to be doing this properly. :smokin:

- I read in Men's Fitness - and was advised by you that running burns fat, but also lean muscle while the sprinting, HIIT burns the carbs and a marginal amount of lean muscle- basically is our only hope of maintaining a six pack, aside from diet, going to be possible with a combo of the HIIT and strength training?- and scrapping the long walks and endurance running all together?:ohwell:

MityMax96

Since you are going with weight gain, I don't think BCAAs are as important, since you should be consuming more than enough protein daily.

The study I read, they had the participants doing ~2.2gr / pound of body weight.
Like I said, I just briefly skimmed the write up, so I need to go back and read it better.....
But for me personally, I will try to be hitting 1.5 - 2.0 gr myself......
But let me also say I did notice that over all body composition didn't benefit from the excess protein, over the normal 0.8 - 1.0 gr
It just noted less BF increase.
I will re-read it later.

Also in the AARR that came out today.....they didn't show a benefit of HIIT over steady-state or vice-versa......

So your call on what you want to do in the cardio arena.
I personally will be doing some light cardio on my two rest days, like I do now.

Since I do IF
I plan on eating 3000 calories on my 5 workout days
And ~2200 calories on my two rest days.

Then the following week bump to 3200 calories
Leaving 2200 for my rest days.

The the week following, bump up again to 3400 if needed

MrTolerable

Since you are going with weight gain, I don't think BCAAs are as important, since you should be consuming more than enough protein daily.

The study I read, they had the participants doing ~2.2gr / pound of body weight.
Like I said, I just briefly skimmed the write up, so I need to go back and read it better.....
But for me personally, I will try to be hitting 1.5 - 2.0 gr myself......
But let me also say I did notice that over all body composition didn't benefit from the excess protein, over the normal 0.8 - 1.0 gr
It just noted less BF increase.
I will re-read it later.

Also in the AARR that came out today.....they didn't show a benefit of HIIT over steady-state or vice-versa......

So your call on what you want to do in the cardio arena.
I personally will be doing some light cardio on my two rest days, like I do now.

Since I do IF
I plan on eating 3000 calories on my 5 workout days
And ~2200 calories on my two rest days.

Then the following week bump to 3200 calories
Leaving 2200 for my rest days.

The the week following, bump up again to 3400 if needed

thanks :drinker: I'm trying this... 3000 calories 4 days a week :smokin: FTW!!!

But let me also say I did notice that over all body composition didn't benefit from the excess protein, over the normal 0.8 - 1.0 gr
It just noted less BF increase. - good to know...I still may be consuming more protein 1.5-2 gr just to take the hunger stabs away and to meet a 3000 :laugh: calorie consumption.

3000 for me is in very very large amount to eat lol.

MityMax96

yeah same for me....

But don't discount carbs and the role they play.

Better source of energy than amino acids

MrTolerable

yeah same for me....

But don't discount carbs and the role they play.

Better source of energy than amino acids

- well that is ground breaking news to me because I hardly consume many carbs.... I was leaning more towards protein and fats because fats I thought are easier to burn.

I'll research the merits and benefits of carbs more.

Thanks Max!!!

MityMax96

Fat when consumed in a diet that is in excess of caloric needs is just gonna be easier to store as fat in your body.

Carbs play an important role in signaling muscle growth....something Fats do not do.



Regarding the study in the AARR......the people in the experiment that consumed the extra protein ~309gr / day...
The Thermic Effect of protein allowed them to take on more calories without increasing excess BF, so they were on par with the group that maintained normal levels of protein ~138gr / day

Also to hit their protein intake for the day, they consumed protein powder....
So that typically has very low fat and carbs in them.......so keep that in mind.

Cortelli

It sounds like you're really dedicated and focused - that's great, and congrats on hitting so many of your goals. :drinker:

That said, I think you need to be realistic about weight gain and timeframes. You saw you're currently around 156 lbs and 12.2% BF (for purposes of this discussion, let's just imagine that your BF scale is accurate; it's not, but let's imagine). And you want to get up to 164 lbs at no more than 11% BF. And you want to do so in roughly 5 weeks. Doing the math, that means you're hoping to add roughly nine lbs of LBM and therefore also lose 2 lbs of fat, and do it all in 5 or so weeks. I am afraid that's most likely not possible (at least naturally). Now, as you mention, you can aim for the stars and settle on a cloud, but if you're the type to get discouraged when results don't match expectations, then you really need to rethink what you believe you're capable of.

Now, I don't profess the expertise of many in this forum (I just completed my first bulk), but if I had to summarize what I believe based on my own research and my own experience from the first bulk that is important for adding LBM: (1) you're going to have to eat at a surplus, and at least a surplus of 500 cals your first time around, (2) you're going to have to focus your workouts on progressive overload resistance training -- i.e., weight lifting; (3) you're going to have to dramatically scale back your cardio stuff; (4) you're going to have to be patient; and (5) you're going to have to accept that with muscle gains come fat gains.

An alternative if you are committed to keeping your leanness through summer months, you can eat at or slightly above maintenance, and hit the weights. Essentially a recomp through the summer, and look to bulk in the fall. I just think you're going to have to decide what is more important, keeping your leanness or adding weight - trying to do both, particularly in the timeframes you've planned for, is, I fear, a recipe for disappointment.

Oh, and I echo MityMax that diet and your weight program are the most important things here. The supplements, whatever you choose to take, may assist in some ways, but their are merely small additions to what should otherwise be a solid foundation.

MityMax96

Sent an email to Alan regarding bulking...
He said as long as protein is on point, carbs are the better option on a bulk vs. protein

MrTolerable

Sent an email to Alan regarding bulking...
He said as long as protein is on point, carbs are the better option on a bulk vs. protein

I appreciate you looking further into that!
=D

There is this mammoth of a strength lifter at my gym that I is really really informative, and he just said the same thing you did regarding the carbs over fat. He said in particular "Irish oats", "sweet Potato". So looks like I'll be learning how to cook sweet potato's - he also said basically what you did about scrapping the high amount of cardio I'm doing.



Being healthy is of course WAYYY more important than any of my goals so I will continue running to get that heart healthy, but I'll cut it down to 1-2 high intensity miles.

________________________________________________

@Cortelli
Thanks I'm really blessed where being focused and dedicated comes sorta easy because I really really am enjoying this healthy lifestyle, came from a background of substance abuse - so my entire perspective on life has improved making me one happy individual!! Exercise is sort of an escape from anxiety and stress just like substances used to be, but it makes ya healthier!!

I told my goal to the gentleman at my gym and he advised basically what you did- gaining 9 lbs of LBM while loosing body fat is totally unrealistic in my timeframe, so I'm scrapping the intensity of reaching my increased goal weight until after July and then doing some major bulking work. Till then I'm going to be attempting to get to 158lbs while keeping my six pack - which means getting to around 10% body fat - its incredibly, incredibly more difficult tho to increase weight while maintaining the abs then I was initially anticipating. After August I'm going to try to shoot up to 170 lbs - a bit lofty but I'll give myself 3-4 months to make it happen. :bigsmile:


"You saw you're currently around 156 lbs and 12.2% BF (for purposes of this discussion, let's just imagine that your BF scale is accurate; it's not, but let's imagine)."
-I totally agree its not accurate, when I got it, it basically advised it has a margin of error of up to 3% XD 3% is a huge window of error. Anyways, is there a better alternative for measuring/gauging where you are at on your six pack thats more accurate then that scale? - calipers are a bit more complicated then one would think...

MityMax96

For me when I do Sweet potatoes, I just rinse them off and pop them in the microwave...
depending on size, it can be 5min - 14min

I also like steamed white rice.
Asian style....
So get a rice cooker...go to an asian grocery, and buy some Jasmine rice.

Oatmeal is also a great option....fills you up and is satisfying

MrTolerable

For me when I do Sweet potatoes, I just rinse them off and pop them in the microwave...
depending on size, it can be 5min - 14min

I also like steamed white rice.
Asian style....
So get a rice cooker...go to an asian grocery, and buy some Jasmine rice.

Oatmeal is also a great option....fills you up and is satisfying

Ok, Amazon has a $30 rice cooker so +1 - I will give Jasmine rice a go.

Oatmeal +1

and making sweet potatoes quick and easy with the microwave +1 =D

ninerbuff

Adding muscle with surplus will inadvertently also add fat. That's just the way it works. Same happens with professional bodybuilders who use a myriad of drugs to keep body fat low while adding as much muscle as possible...................they still add fat.
Can you add muscle with no fat gain? Possible, but the length of time to do it will be LONG. We're not talking months, but possibly years.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

SugaryLynx

I just want in...

MrTolerable

Adding muscle with surplus will inadvertently also add fat. That's just the way it works. Same happens with professional bodybuilders who use a myriad of drugs to keep body fat low while adding as much muscle as possible...................they still add fat.
Can you add muscle with no fat gain? Possible, but the length of time to do it will be LONG. We're not talking months, but possibly years.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Ok...not what I'd ideally like to hear but glad to know this now. I'm just ganna have to bite the bullet and embrace having some fat gains.

def disappointing because getting this cut has been literally a 10-11 month process :grumble: ...and I'm ganna have to do it all over and over again.

SugaryLynx

Ya, the fat gain was my biggest hurdle committing to bulking. I spent so much time cutting. Guess just part of the cycle. Bulk and cut is faster than recomp, to my understanding, so embrace a little fat to get gains in muscle. Still pretty win

MrTolerable

Ya, the fat gain was my biggest hurdle committing to bulking. I spent so much time cutting. Guess just part of the cycle. Bulk and cut is faster than recomp, to my understanding, so embrace a little fat to get gains in muscle. Still pretty win

yes still pretty :flowerforyou:


I guess it's why there are cycle's period - Thanks for forgiving my ignorance on this... I guess its basics and it makes sense - its just not what I was wanting to hear.

Can't say I'm going to be complaining though in 2 months when I'm eating literally a feast every workout day.

SugaryLynx

Ya, the fat gain was my biggest hurdle committing to bulking. I spent so much time cutting. Guess just part of the cycle. Bulk and cut is faster than recomp, to my understanding, so embrace a little fat to get gains in muscle. Still pretty win

yes still pretty :flowerforyou:


I guess it's why there are cycle's period - Thanks for forgiving my ignorance on this... I guess its basics and it makes sense - its just not what I was wanting to hear.

Can't say I'm going to be complaining though in 2 months when I'm eating literally a feast every workout day.

You're so sweet. I swear pahaha.

But there's nothing to forgive cause you're awesome and questions are how we learn. I have had a great amount of help from Sidesteel to help me bulk. The slower the gains the better, once you're prepared to do so, is what I understand. Essentially, slower weight gain along with proper protein and weightlifting ensure your body will be better at converting excess energy to muscle. If you gain too quick, you're looking at more fat gain. I've been bulking since February and aiming for October as an end date but honestly, if mirror and measurements still look good, I'll keep going. .. I like all the foodz!