At what percent bodyfat did you start your bulk?

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  • iPlatano
    iPlatano Posts: 487 Member
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    I started when I was 8% body fat. I've been clean bulking for a while(250cals surplus). I like staying lean while building lean muscle mass and strength!
  • MyChocolateDiet
    MyChocolateDiet Posts: 22,281 Member
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    Are you an X-men?
  • Aaron_K123
    Aaron_K123 Posts: 7,122 Member
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    If your primary goal is strength, then you would probably want to eat at maintenance or bulk no matter what your current BF% is. However, it seems like your primary goal is appearance. Like a couple have mentioned, I would definitely get below 15% before thinking about it. Maybe start reversing around 12%. You should still drop a bit more fat while reversing up.

    I have only reversed/bulked for a couple of months out of my 2+ years of getting in shape. It was pretty glorious.

    Yup...appearance. Functional strength in my current occupation serves little purpose unless perhaps a big bookcase fell on me and I had to push it off. If I did a sport it would be long distance hiking and to be honest the lighter I am the better for that. No, pretty safe assumption there that my goal is aesthetic.
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    I tend to cut down to the 10% range before bulking. That may not always be practical for everyone depending on individual goals/circumstances/etc.

    I would make some considerations towards your gym performance, your tolerance for fat gain, and your overall mood and ability to adhere to a caloric deficit as well. So just for example if your gym performance is reasonable and you're not experiencing any significant dieting related stress or chronic hunger/mood issues then "keep cutting" is perfectly reasonable even if you don't have a specific bodyfat% that you plan on stopping at.


    There's also nothing wrong with eating close to maintenance for some weeks either.

    A good read:
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html


    And another:
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,834 Member
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    In my initial large fat loss stage from at least 30% BF I was basically a slightly shorter version of you when I started to "bulk". I say that loosely as I really just aimed for around maintenance and over the following 6 years have very slowly increased that.

    I focused on gym performance first and foremost.

    Typically, I'd say cut to around 10-12% like you said but as SS mentioned in may not be possible for you at this stage. Some time around maintenance would be beneficial IMO.
  • Aaron_K123
    Aaron_K123 Posts: 7,122 Member
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    I tend to cut down to the 10% range before bulking. That may not always be practical for everyone depending on individual goals/circumstances/etc.

    I would make some considerations towards your gym performance, your tolerance for fat gain, and your overall mood and ability to adhere to a caloric deficit as well. So just for example if your gym performance is reasonable and you're not experiencing any significant dieting related stress or chronic hunger/mood issues then "keep cutting" is perfectly reasonable even if you don't have a specific bodyfat% that you plan on stopping at.


    There's also nothing wrong with eating close to maintenance for some weeks either.

    A good read:
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html


    And another:
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html

    Thanks Side, I will take a look at those when I get a moment. Pleasure as always to hear your advice and that does make sense that I listen more to my body and pay more attention to my mood and strength than to my percent bodyfat as I continue to cut.
  • Aaron_K123
    Aaron_K123 Posts: 7,122 Member
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    In my initial large fat loss stage from at least 30% BF I was basically a slightly shorter version of you when I started to "bulk". I say that loosely as I really just aimed for around maintenance and over the following 6 years have very slowly increased that.

    I focused on gym performance first and foremost.

    Typically, I'd say cut to around 10-12% like you said but as SS mentioned in may not be possible for you at this stage. Some time around maintenance would be beneficial IMO.

    I'm sorry perhaps I misunderstood.

    Is the suggestion to transition to maintenance in the very near future as a "break" from my diet and then resume cutting or are you saying when I reach the base of my cut (either hitting a percent bodyfat goal or just bottoming out in terms of mood/performance) that I first switch to maintenance for a while before attempting a bulk?

    Thanks.
  • Aaron_K123
    Aaron_K123 Posts: 7,122 Member
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    This has been my weightloss during my cut.

    Weight_moving_average.jpg

    So far I would say my mood is fine. My energy level can be a bit low at times, ie requiring more rest. I will admit I am getting a little fidgety and bored with the routine and am looking forward more and more to the idea of a bulk. My strength gains associated with weight lifting have plateaued which I think contributes to the fidgety feeling. I want to keep this going for another few months though and I'm not really high stress about that. I've kept myself on an even path, I've kept on target and I have been happy with my progress.

    This was where I started just 4 months ago where I estimated 27% bf:

    140222_Torso_contrast.jpg
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    Great progress so far.

    I don't think it would be unreasonable to take a two week diet break where you set calories to approximately maintenance. See how you feel at the end of the break, see what your weight does, see how your gym performance goes, and then re-assess at that point as to whether or not you will resume the cut.

    Depending on your training experience and where your lifts are at you may want to address the programming aspect of things since that's certainly a variable at play. In other words while it's more difficult to gain strength in a deficit I wouldn't be quick to assume that it's the caloric deficit strictly at play with the stall in strength. In SOME cases it will be, but not in all cases.
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,834 Member
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    In my initial large fat loss stage from at least 30% BF I was basically a slightly shorter version of you when I started to "bulk". I say that loosely as I really just aimed for around maintenance and over the following 6 years have very slowly increased that.

    I focused on gym performance first and foremost.

    Typically, I'd say cut to around 10-12% like you said but as SS mentioned in may not be possible for you at this stage. Some time around maintenance would be beneficial IMO.

    I'm sorry perhaps I misunderstood.

    Is the suggestion to transition to maintenance in the very near future as a "break" from my diet and then resume cutting or are you saying when I reach the base of my cut (either hitting a percent bodyfat goal or just bottoming out in terms of mood/performance) that I first switch to maintenance for a while before attempting a bulk?

    Thanks.

    After seeing your weight loss graph with no plateaus, I'd just keep cutting for a bit :smile:

    Bullking from a lower BF% "should" assist in have a better partitioning between muscle and fat gain.

    And remember, MINI CUTS! Just because you are bulking doesn't mean it has to gain every week. I would normally gain for a bit, then tighten the cals a bit and cut for 2 weeks or so. This is pretty much how I do it and basically maintain visible abs year round without sacrificing strength gains. (Genetics may play a part as well but if you saw my family, you could tell that mine are "average".)
  • Aaron_K123
    Aaron_K123 Posts: 7,122 Member
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    I was envisioning I had about 90 or so days to go for my goal (based on current trend) so to keep it fresh I switched my workout routine to P90X to have a varied routine that was already planned out for me to keep me interested and involved.

    I do realize that P90X is not a hypertrophy routine but I figured for the purpose of a cut and muscle maintenance it would keep me active and help with my flexibility and overall fitness and so far, in week 4, I've rather enjoyed it.

    When I do finally transition I hope to move first to maintenance for a bit while switching to a heavy lifting or hypertrophy program (haven't picked one yet, advice there would be good too). After settling into that I'd look at ramping up to a 400 cal surplus or so and then yeah as suggested bulk/cut cycle as needed.

    My weightloss has been fairly plateau free. I did have a little mini-plateau of about 2 weeks when I switched my workout routine to P90X in mid-May but I was expecting that as I've found changing your routinue seems to come along with water retention.
  • jwdieter
    jwdieter Posts: 2,582 Member
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    Should be able to cut to 10-12% pretty easy given the consistency and solid approach so far. It's nice to look good while bulking.
  • Cortelli
    Cortelli Posts: 1,369 Member
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    I got down to about 11 - 12% before my first bulk. That was after about 8 - 9 months of cutting with a month or so of conscious maintenance mixed in in two separate stretches. I lifted reasonably heavy all through the cut. I am back up to somewhere just north of 15% I think after my bulk (but look considerably better, IMHO, than I did at the same weight on the way down) and have moved to maintenance / very slight deficit to enjoy a long vacation. I'll cut in earnest again back down to 10 - 11% in late summer (North America) before bulking again.
  • Cortelli
    Cortelli Posts: 1,369 Member
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    When I do finally transition I hope to move first to maintenance for a bit while switching to a heavy lifting or hypertrophy program (haven't picked one yet, advice there would be good too).

    I am probably going to switch to Ice Cream Fitness for a bit in late summer during my cut to focus a little more on strength. But during my bulk and while slipping into the bulk through a leisurely maintenance acclimatization period, I have been doing this: http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/the-muscle-building-workout-routine/ I liked this program a lot - thought it was a good mix of compound lifts, some lighter accessories, consistent push / pull mix, and appropriate rest on the four-day split. There are plenty of decent programs though - suggest you cruise bb.com.
  • random_user75
    random_user75 Posts: 157 Member
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    Bump
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,834 Member
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    Very similar to my history.

    I cut with cardio only (running/boxing) and lost a lot of LBM. Then started P90x and did that. Was down to 70kg and pretty fit by this stage (about a year). I then started stronglifts and continued with other cardio that I enjoyed (mma). I'd recommend the Icecream fitness 5x5 for a good all round routine.
  • Aaron_K123
    Aaron_K123 Posts: 7,122 Member
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    Very similar to my history.

    I cut with cardio only (running/boxing) and lost a lot of LBM. Then started P90x and did that. Was down to 70kg and pretty fit by this stage (about a year). I then started stronglifts and continued with other cardio that I enjoyed (mma). I'd recommend the Icecream fitness 5x5 for a good all round routine.

    Yeah I was looking into that. My home equipment wouldn't do it justice so I'd have to join a gym but I'm okay with making that transition.

    At home I have a smith machine a bench and some olympic plates (enough for 240 pounds) along with an olympic curl bar and some adjustable dumbbells. All I could need and more for your basic stuff but if I want to do squats and deadlifts proper justice it will be lacking in the long term.

    Plus its not like I want to be dropping a deadlift weight onto the floor if i need to in my house.

    Until then though I figure P90X is a good routinue for me to follow to keep the muscles warm and work on some flexibility while I cut.
  • mRoss27
    mRoss27 Posts: 33 Member
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    You want to get around 10% to begin a bulk, and end at around 15-16%. You will look good at 10% and will be in a position to slowly put on some lean mass, rather than adding more fluff while you still have plenty to lose.
  • macchiatto
    macchiatto Posts: 2,890 Member
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    I got tired of cutting and decided to recomp instead. But really ... I was already down to 131 lbs at 5'7" and while my BF was higher than I'd like, I have low LBM and was already getting too thin in the parts of my body where I don't carry weight. I am new to lifting so for now I'm going to focus more on building my strength, eating at maintenance and see where I'm at after several months. If I want to go back to cutting then, I can.
  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
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    If your primary goal is strength, then you would probably want to eat at maintenance or bulk no matter what your current BF% is. However, it seems like your primary goal is appearance. Like a couple have mentioned, I would definitely get below 15% before thinking about it. Maybe start reversing around 12%. You should still drop a bit more fat while reversing up.

    I have only reversed/bulked for a couple of months out of my 2+ years of getting in shape. It was pretty glorious.

    Yup...appearance. Functional strength in my current occupation serves little purpose unless perhaps a big bookcase fell on me and I had to push it off. If I did a sport it would be long distance hiking and to be honest the lighter I am the better for that. No, pretty safe assumption there that my goal is aesthetic.

    I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how functional strength actually is. Like distance running, a fundamental level of strength has manifold benefits in terms of endurance and injury prevention for hiking.

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