Recomp technique

MrTolerable

Hey guys, I keep hitting on this, and I know questions have been answered in other forums saying it is basically impossible but I came across the recomp technique and I was wondering if it is applicable for people with sub 12% body fat?

It seems the primary people using this are people that claim to be in the 20-30% body fat that are looking to bulk while cutting their body fat - which is exactly what I am trying to do - gain lean mass while cutting down the body fat - I am slooooooowly gaining weight - I think honestly it is at a rate of .2-.3lbs a week, and then it drops big time, and then I am back to where I am + a marginal amount.

The PROBLEM is my body fat percentage is going up according to the scale and my abs are incredibly important to me - not to sound vain but I literally poured months of work into getting them so I don't want to go through a bulk cycle especially in the summer and loose so much work - but at the same time I am a stickler for reaching goals and I have some goals of how much weight I want to put up on a few lifts and I'm not ganna reach those goals without gaining at least another 10-15 lbs.



Also - I did just add carbs to my diet which is helping me gain weight - but I am also getting a little constipated :embarassed: I think from adding the wheat bread, oatmeal - so I am getting super worried about that. - should I cut out the amount of carbs and stick to the primary diet I formerly had of protein and fats (healthy fats from nuts and good oils like extra virgin olive oil etc.) ? - when I was doing that I was cutting my body fat % super well - but I was also cutting lean mass..

....why can't we just have the best of both worlds?....

My journal is on public.


Any tips or comments from serious strength trainers are welcome. :drinker: - even if it is not what I want to hear.

AliceSwarthout

I have nothing useful to say. However, your hard work shows!

tycho_mx

Not to sound like a jerk, but what you're doing is relatively commonplace - amongst elite athletes.

I'd read Matt Fitzgerald's "Racing Weight", "The Lean Look and his articles. Everything is based on peer-reviewed science, with references. Essentially he suggests a periodization approach for endurance athletes, where they get leaner (not necessarily lighter) when they approach peak competition dates - and he accepts that no one is at 100% fitness 100% of the time so he suggests loosening up a little bit on the off season.

Anyway, look over the reviews and see if it convinces you...

http://mattfitzgerald.org/books/

MrTolerable

I have nothing useful to say. However, your hard work shows!

:flowerforyou:

@tycho_mx - I may purchase the book - sorta swamped with books on sales at the moment, but this is important and I might check it out- your dead on though I wan to get leaner but not lighter. - I still feel like a fatty some days despite the compartmentalized belly.

JoRocka

for constipation- add more fat

secondly- if you want to get a bit bigger- you know this- you are going to have to put on some fat. Recomping is just terribly inefficient and time consuming- and my understanding especially for people at your level.

But doing a 3-4 month bulk- putting on 10-15 pounds- no one will notice but you - and then you can strip it back off quickly- losing fat is much easier than putting on muscle.

I'll let waldo chime in on that- he's much more efficient at explaining that stuff.

NRBreit

You look to be around 10% BF plus or minus. Seriously, what do you expect to recomp? Your body is going to hold onto whatever remaining fat it has. Eat, bulk, get stronger, and gain some weight. If you start to lose your abs, cut back. Either that, or maintain what you currently have.

GreatDepression

Yeah, you're really vain. Also, what's the deal with blurring out the pixels on your eyes? Scared someone will find a shirtless photo of you?

MrTolerable

Yeah, you're really vain. Also, what's the deal with blurring out the pixels on your eyes? Scared someone will find a shirtless photo of you?

^anything else you can point out for us Sherlock Holmes? No I had a problem with women on MFP hitting me up on FB.

@JoRocka: Your actually the first person to say that - I cut back on the fat BIG time because I'm consuming more carbs - soo I have been thinking it is carbs but I guess I am not balancing my diet very properly - guess that means more nuts and olive oil. Thanks for your input :flowerforyou:

jimmmer

Have you checked out some of Lyle McDonalds work? I'm thinking something like UD2.0. Or, if you don't want his convoluted diet/training approach, perhaps his stubborn fat solution which can be done in addition to your normal/preferred training.

TavistockToad

Yeah, you're really vain. Also, what's the deal with blurring out the pixels on your eyes? Scared someone will find a shirtless photo of you?

Any reason you're so bothered about the OP?

LolBroScience

It takes a really long time, but I guess that's subjective depending on your goals.

Lean bulking - you won't completely lose your abs i... just bulk at a slow pace. If you're so concerned about it why not just postpone bulking until after summer?

LolBroScience

....why can't we just have the best of both worlds?....

eat clen, tren hard, test your limits, anavar give up. Nom sayain?

MagnumBurrito

Your calorie and macros totals are all over the place. For a recomp, try to eat right at maintenance (+/-100 calories ), and hit your minimum protein and fats everyday. You can play with around with the carb %.

_benjammin

eat clen, tren hard, test your limits, anavar give up. Nom sayain?

Ha! Brilliant!
;-)

Ashes_To_Beast

Bump

MrTolerable

Your calorie and macros totals are all over the place. For a recomp, try to eat right at maintenance (+/-100 calories ), and hit your minimum protein and fats everyday. You can play with around with the carb %.

^Yeah humbling but I guess your right - I guess it is all over the place because on days I was putting 3+ hours in the gym and doing HIIT I was eating as much as I could through out the day, while on the off days I was not. - I'm 5'10" - 148-154lbs - think I should be doing 2000 calories daily and then on my off days going with 1800 for intake?

Have a recommendation for where my macro % should be?

@lolbroscience

eat clen, tren hard, test your limits, anavar give up. Nom sayain?

-:laugh: lmao sure do boss

MrTolerable

Have you checked out some of Lyle McDonalds work? I'm thinking something like UD2.0. Or, if you don't want his convoluted diet/training approach, perhaps his stubborn fat solution which can be done in addition to your normal/preferred training.

I have never even heard of Lyle McDonalds- but I just got UD2.0 for the Kindle Glowing reviews - so thanks for the input - I will be reading it next week.

jimmmer

Have you checked out some of Lyle McDonalds work? I'm thinking something like UD2.0. Or, if you don't want his convoluted diet/training approach, perhaps his stubborn fat solution which can be done in addition to your normal/preferred training.

I have never even heard of Lyle McDonalds- but I just got UD2.0 for the Kindle Glowing reviews - so thanks for the input - I will be reading it next week.

I've never done it, but I've got the book and it's a great read. You need to do the integrated training protocol and it just doesn't line up with my training goals at the moment.

It does get a lot of positive feedback though... I will tackle it in the future when my goals shift, I think.

jmt08c

I'm 5'10" and 175 lbs @ roughly 12% BF...from that pic looks like you're closer to 9%. I tried to body recomp at first and saw very little gains. If you're wanting to gain muscle you NEED to eat at a surplus. It is highly unlikely that you would put on 10-15 lbs of muscle without gaining some fat.

Someone mentioned waiting until winter to bulk...this is what I would recommend if you are concerned about your abs and being shirtless.

Most people have found that a recomp is less effective than a bulk and shred cycle...myself included.

MrTolerable

I'm 5'10" and 175 lbs @ roughly 12% BF...from that pic looks like you're closer to 9%. I tried to body recomp at first and saw very little gains. If you're wanting to gain muscle you NEED to eat at a surplus. It is highly unlikely that you would put on 10-15 lbs of muscle without gaining some fat.

Someone mentioned waiting until winter to bulk...this is what I would recommend if you are concerned about your abs and being shirtless.

Most people have found that a recomp is less effective than a bulk and shred cycle...myself included.

^Just so you know - I'm sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo jealy man - your exactly where I wish I was -

I'm going to read the book - I'm going to just go ballllz 2 da wall - for getting cut and trim for the rest of the summer - come fall I'm going to attempt the recomp again - come winter I'm going for a super super big bulk cycle - come spring it's time for cutting again.

I guess your right -time is very important and the quickest way to do this is to bulk, take on the fat, and loose the six pack for a few months.

markiend

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/

_benjammin

^Yeah humbling but I guess your right - I guess it is all over the place because on days I was putting 3+ hours in the gym and doing HIIT I was eating as much as I could through out the day, while on the off days I was not. - I'm 5'10" - 148-154lbs - think I should be doing 2000 calories daily and then on my off days going with 1800 for intake?

Have a recommendation for where my macro % should be?

Woah, sounds low. I'm 5'10" and only lift 3 days a week, pretty sedentary otherwise and was cutting at 2,000. I reversed up and I've been eating ~2900 cals the last 3 weeks and my weight is stable @ ~154 with ~10% BF. I quite trying to cal/carb cycle and just shoot for 2,800 cals per day (350g Carbs, 62g Fat, and 210g Protein) but weekends I'm always over calories (thus the 2900 cal average) usually thanks to booze.

morgan_mfit

Time wise, it's very possible you'll reach your goals at the same end-date via waiting until after summer to heavy bulk and cut, as would doing a slow bulk/recomp.. although you're not really describing a recomp since you are planning on gaining 10-15lbs and looking to cut zero fat. To me a recomp means taking off the excess fat and putting on muscle and you have very little excess fat soo...

MrTolerable

Time wise, it's very possible you'll reach your goals at the same end-date via waiting until after summer to heavy bulk and cut, as would doing a slow bulk/recomp.. although you're not really describing a recomp since you are planning on gaining 10-15lbs and looking to cut zero fat. To me a recomp means taking off the excess fat and putting on muscle and you have very little excess fat soo...

I do mean recomp because I want to get my body fat percentage to 8% so I look good with my shirt off at the beach.

Also @_benjammin - I thought maintenance for 150lbsish at our size is 2000-2200 calories daily?

jimmmer

Time wise, it's very possible you'll reach your goals at the same end-date via waiting until after summer to heavy bulk and cut, as would doing a slow bulk/recomp.. although you're not really describing a recomp since you are planning on gaining 10-15lbs and looking to cut zero fat. To me a recomp means taking off the excess fat and putting on muscle and you have very little excess fat soo...

I do mean recomp because I want to get my body fat percentage to 8% so I look good with my shirt off at the beach.

Also @_benjammin - I thought maintenance for 150lbsish at our size is 2000-2200 calories daily?

Dude, I'm 5'6" 143lbs and my maintenance is 2350ish.

NRBreit

I'm not sure why you're even asking about recomping. You have nothing to recomp. Can you get a bit leaner? Maybe, but it will be hard to do naturally even if your diet is spot on. Can you get bigger? Sure, if you're willing to add some fat along the way. But IMO, you're not going to make any gains trying to recomp at your current lean BF%. On a frame like yours, people will never even notice a bit of fat gain.

Springfield1970

I've done both UD2 (6 cycles) and bulking and cutting.

UD2 is genius, utterly beautiful and effective. It just makes you feel like dying and everyone around you will be concerned about your health. It's very extreme, and it worried me a bit. In the power workouts, I felt very strong though.

Over winter I bulked, which was an utter joy tbh. It was good for me mentally to feel that food was a positive thing and I did quite a good job of having a high p ratio(less fat to muscle gains) because I started after a deep cut to 16/17% body fat.

The cut has been dead slow, on purpose, so I can train for tri season. I'm happy with the results.

I also read 'Racing Weight' and follow it. At the bottom of my cut last autumn I ran a 21min 5k using Matt's methods. I had been running for 14 months and was 43. I think I used to do a 5k in over 30 minutes when I was high body fat (30%).

Anyway, after kicking and screaming through the slight fat gain on the bulk, I conclude that it's much easier to live with, in rest season, but I finished it too late and started my tri training too fat to do well this year. Next year I'm going to be finished by Xmas with the foodz and cutting faster to be ready by February for the training.

jimmmer

I've done both UD2 (6 cycles) and bulking and cutting.

UD2 is genius, utterly beautiful and effective. It just makes you feel like dying and everyone around you will be concerned about your health. It's very extreme, and it worried me a bit. In the power workouts, I felt very strong though.

Over winter I bulked, which was an utter joy tbh. It was good for me mentally to feel that food was a positive thing and I did quite a good job of having a high p ratio(less fat to muscle gains) because I started after a deep cut to 16/17% body fat.

The cut has been dead slow, on purpose, so I can train for tri season. I'm happy with the results.

I also read 'Racing Weight' and follow it. At the bottom of my cut last autumn I ran a 21min 5k using Matt's methods. I had been running for 14 months and was 43. I think I used to do a 5k in over 30 minutes when I was high body fat (30%).

Anyway, after kicking and screaming through the slight fat gain on the bulk, I conclude that it's much easier to live with, in rest season, but I finished it too late and started my tri training too fat to do well this year. Next year I'm going to be finished by Xmas with the foodz and cutting faster to be ready by February for the training.

Interested in hearing if you tried out the mass gain variant of UD2.0? Obvs less extreme in terms of cals on the depletion days...

MrTolerable

I've done both UD2 (6 cycles) and bulking and cutting.

UD2 is genius, utterly beautiful and effective. It just makes you feel like dying and everyone around you will be concerned about your health. It's very extreme, and it worried me a bit. In the power workouts, I felt very strong though.

Over winter I bulked, which was an utter joy tbh. It was good for me mentally to feel that food was a positive thing and I did quite a good job of having a high p ratio(less fat to muscle gains) because I started after a deep cut to 16/17% body fat.

The cut has been dead slow, on purpose, so I can train for tri season. I'm happy with the results.

I also read 'Racing Weight' and follow it. At the bottom of my cut last autumn I ran a 21min 5k using Matt's methods. I had been running for 14 months and was 43. I think I used to do a 5k in over 30 minutes when I was high body fat (30%).

Anyway, after kicking and screaming through the slight fat gain on the bulk, I conclude that it's much easier to live with, in rest season, but I finished it too late and started my tri training too fat to do well this year. Next year I'm going to be finished by Xmas with the foodz and cutting faster to be ready by February for the training.

^informative - I like to hear how much your performance improved with the cut - I care more about the looks obviously then the performance but it doesn't mean I don't value peak performance - that is encouraging to hear - and I also am looking forward to bulking this winter.

@NRBreit - nothing to recomp? ...I'm sincerely confused - My body fat percentage I feel is way to high, yet I'm way too light when it comes to lean mass - I was under the impression a recomp, sloooooowly, decreases the bodyfat%, while increasing the lean muscle mass?



Also - I am clearly not at 9-10% in terms of body fat percentage - I am most likely at 11.4-12.4% - my goal is to get it substantially lower.




Do abs even count if you gotta flex ta see 'em?

NRBreit

@NRBreit - nothing to recomp? ...I'm sincerely confused - My body fat percentage I feel is way to high, yet I'm way too light when it comes to lean mass - I was under the impression a recomp, sloooooowly, decreases the bodyfat%, while increasing the lean muscle mass?

Also - I am clearly not at 9-10% in terms of body fat percentage - I am most likely at 11.4-12.4% - my goal is to get it substantially lower.

Based on your avi, I'd put you at around 10% give or take. Based on my experience, you're in that range of leanness where your body isn't going to let any more fat go without a fight. As I said, you can continue to get leaner by losing weight but it will proably be at the expense of some LBM with it. I just don't think you're going to find much success 'recomping'. I'm no expert, but getting to single digit BF while gaining mass at the same time naturally just really isn't feasible for the majority of people. But I'd love to see it work for you. Good luck.

MrTolerable

@NRBreit - nothing to recomp? ...I'm sincerely confused - My body fat percentage I feel is way to high, yet I'm way too light when it comes to lean mass - I was under the impression a recomp, sloooooowly, decreases the bodyfat%, while increasing the lean muscle mass?

Also - I am clearly not at 9-10% in terms of body fat percentage - I am most likely at 11.4-12.4% - my goal is to get it substantially lower.

Based on your avi, I'd put you at around 10% give or take. Based on my experience, you're in that range of leanness where your body isn't going to let any more fat go without a fight. As I said, you can continue to get leaner by losing weight but it will proably be at the expense of some LBM with it. I just don't think you're going to find much success 'recomping'. I'm no expert, but getting to single digit BF while gaining mass at the same time naturally just really isn't feasible for the majority of people. But I'd love to see it work for you. Good luck.

sincerely appreciate your insight and professional demeanor - I will go back to a deficit for the summer & start a recomp phase in the fall - if the progress continues to be ridiculously slow I'll just go for an insane bulking stage through winter of 3000-3300+ calories


Believe it or not it is harder for me to eat a ton, then it is for me to just decide to go on the deficit - and it is more expensive lmao.

edit: spelled deficit like a goober.