Recomp technique

_benjammin

^Yeah humbling but I guess your right - I guess it is all over the place because on days I was putting 3+ hours in the gym and doing HIIT I was eating as much as I could through out the day, while on the off days I was not. - I'm 5'10" - 148-154lbs - think I should be doing 2000 calories daily and then on my off days going with 1800 for intake?

Have a recommendation for where my macro % should be?

Woah, sounds low. I'm 5'10" and only lift 3 days a week, pretty sedentary otherwise and was cutting at 2,000. I reversed up and I've been eating ~2900 cals the last 3 weeks and my weight is stable @ ~154 with ~10% BF. I quite trying to cal/carb cycle and just shoot for 2,800 cals per day (350g Carbs, 62g Fat, and 210g Protein) but weekends I'm always over calories (thus the 2900 cal average) usually thanks to booze.

morgan_mfit

Time wise, it's very possible you'll reach your goals at the same end-date via waiting until after summer to heavy bulk and cut, as would doing a slow bulk/recomp.. although you're not really describing a recomp since you are planning on gaining 10-15lbs and looking to cut zero fat. To me a recomp means taking off the excess fat and putting on muscle and you have very little excess fat soo...

MrTolerable

Time wise, it's very possible you'll reach your goals at the same end-date via waiting until after summer to heavy bulk and cut, as would doing a slow bulk/recomp.. although you're not really describing a recomp since you are planning on gaining 10-15lbs and looking to cut zero fat. To me a recomp means taking off the excess fat and putting on muscle and you have very little excess fat soo...

I do mean recomp because I want to get my body fat percentage to 8% so I look good with my shirt off at the beach.

Also @_benjammin - I thought maintenance for 150lbsish at our size is 2000-2200 calories daily?

jimmmer

Time wise, it's very possible you'll reach your goals at the same end-date via waiting until after summer to heavy bulk and cut, as would doing a slow bulk/recomp.. although you're not really describing a recomp since you are planning on gaining 10-15lbs and looking to cut zero fat. To me a recomp means taking off the excess fat and putting on muscle and you have very little excess fat soo...

I do mean recomp because I want to get my body fat percentage to 8% so I look good with my shirt off at the beach.

Also @_benjammin - I thought maintenance for 150lbsish at our size is 2000-2200 calories daily?

Dude, I'm 5'6" 143lbs and my maintenance is 2350ish.

NRBreit

I'm not sure why you're even asking about recomping. You have nothing to recomp. Can you get a bit leaner? Maybe, but it will be hard to do naturally even if your diet is spot on. Can you get bigger? Sure, if you're willing to add some fat along the way. But IMO, you're not going to make any gains trying to recomp at your current lean BF%. On a frame like yours, people will never even notice a bit of fat gain.

Springfield1970

I've done both UD2 (6 cycles) and bulking and cutting.

UD2 is genius, utterly beautiful and effective. It just makes you feel like dying and everyone around you will be concerned about your health. It's very extreme, and it worried me a bit. In the power workouts, I felt very strong though.

Over winter I bulked, which was an utter joy tbh. It was good for me mentally to feel that food was a positive thing and I did quite a good job of having a high p ratio(less fat to muscle gains) because I started after a deep cut to 16/17% body fat.

The cut has been dead slow, on purpose, so I can train for tri season. I'm happy with the results.

I also read 'Racing Weight' and follow it. At the bottom of my cut last autumn I ran a 21min 5k using Matt's methods. I had been running for 14 months and was 43. I think I used to do a 5k in over 30 minutes when I was high body fat (30%).

Anyway, after kicking and screaming through the slight fat gain on the bulk, I conclude that it's much easier to live with, in rest season, but I finished it too late and started my tri training too fat to do well this year. Next year I'm going to be finished by Xmas with the foodz and cutting faster to be ready by February for the training.

jimmmer

I've done both UD2 (6 cycles) and bulking and cutting.

UD2 is genius, utterly beautiful and effective. It just makes you feel like dying and everyone around you will be concerned about your health. It's very extreme, and it worried me a bit. In the power workouts, I felt very strong though.

Over winter I bulked, which was an utter joy tbh. It was good for me mentally to feel that food was a positive thing and I did quite a good job of having a high p ratio(less fat to muscle gains) because I started after a deep cut to 16/17% body fat.

The cut has been dead slow, on purpose, so I can train for tri season. I'm happy with the results.

I also read 'Racing Weight' and follow it. At the bottom of my cut last autumn I ran a 21min 5k using Matt's methods. I had been running for 14 months and was 43. I think I used to do a 5k in over 30 minutes when I was high body fat (30%).

Anyway, after kicking and screaming through the slight fat gain on the bulk, I conclude that it's much easier to live with, in rest season, but I finished it too late and started my tri training too fat to do well this year. Next year I'm going to be finished by Xmas with the foodz and cutting faster to be ready by February for the training.

Interested in hearing if you tried out the mass gain variant of UD2.0? Obvs less extreme in terms of cals on the depletion days...

MrTolerable

I've done both UD2 (6 cycles) and bulking and cutting.

UD2 is genius, utterly beautiful and effective. It just makes you feel like dying and everyone around you will be concerned about your health. It's very extreme, and it worried me a bit. In the power workouts, I felt very strong though.

Over winter I bulked, which was an utter joy tbh. It was good for me mentally to feel that food was a positive thing and I did quite a good job of having a high p ratio(less fat to muscle gains) because I started after a deep cut to 16/17% body fat.

The cut has been dead slow, on purpose, so I can train for tri season. I'm happy with the results.

I also read 'Racing Weight' and follow it. At the bottom of my cut last autumn I ran a 21min 5k using Matt's methods. I had been running for 14 months and was 43. I think I used to do a 5k in over 30 minutes when I was high body fat (30%).

Anyway, after kicking and screaming through the slight fat gain on the bulk, I conclude that it's much easier to live with, in rest season, but I finished it too late and started my tri training too fat to do well this year. Next year I'm going to be finished by Xmas with the foodz and cutting faster to be ready by February for the training.

^informative - I like to hear how much your performance improved with the cut - I care more about the looks obviously then the performance but it doesn't mean I don't value peak performance - that is encouraging to hear - and I also am looking forward to bulking this winter.

@NRBreit - nothing to recomp? ...I'm sincerely confused - My body fat percentage I feel is way to high, yet I'm way too light when it comes to lean mass - I was under the impression a recomp, sloooooowly, decreases the bodyfat%, while increasing the lean muscle mass?



Also - I am clearly not at 9-10% in terms of body fat percentage - I am most likely at 11.4-12.4% - my goal is to get it substantially lower.




Do abs even count if you gotta flex ta see 'em?

NRBreit

@NRBreit - nothing to recomp? ...I'm sincerely confused - My body fat percentage I feel is way to high, yet I'm way too light when it comes to lean mass - I was under the impression a recomp, sloooooowly, decreases the bodyfat%, while increasing the lean muscle mass?

Also - I am clearly not at 9-10% in terms of body fat percentage - I am most likely at 11.4-12.4% - my goal is to get it substantially lower.

Based on your avi, I'd put you at around 10% give or take. Based on my experience, you're in that range of leanness where your body isn't going to let any more fat go without a fight. As I said, you can continue to get leaner by losing weight but it will proably be at the expense of some LBM with it. I just don't think you're going to find much success 'recomping'. I'm no expert, but getting to single digit BF while gaining mass at the same time naturally just really isn't feasible for the majority of people. But I'd love to see it work for you. Good luck.

MrTolerable

@NRBreit - nothing to recomp? ...I'm sincerely confused - My body fat percentage I feel is way to high, yet I'm way too light when it comes to lean mass - I was under the impression a recomp, sloooooowly, decreases the bodyfat%, while increasing the lean muscle mass?

Also - I am clearly not at 9-10% in terms of body fat percentage - I am most likely at 11.4-12.4% - my goal is to get it substantially lower.

Based on your avi, I'd put you at around 10% give or take. Based on my experience, you're in that range of leanness where your body isn't going to let any more fat go without a fight. As I said, you can continue to get leaner by losing weight but it will proably be at the expense of some LBM with it. I just don't think you're going to find much success 'recomping'. I'm no expert, but getting to single digit BF while gaining mass at the same time naturally just really isn't feasible for the majority of people. But I'd love to see it work for you. Good luck.

sincerely appreciate your insight and professional demeanor - I will go back to a deficit for the summer & start a recomp phase in the fall - if the progress continues to be ridiculously slow I'll just go for an insane bulking stage through winter of 3000-3300+ calories


Believe it or not it is harder for me to eat a ton, then it is for me to just decide to go on the deficit - and it is more expensive lmao.

edit: spelled deficit like a goober.

_benjammin

Also @_benjammin - I thought maintenance for 150lbsish at our size is 2000-2200 calories daily?

That maybe so for a sedentary person.
All I'm saying is I don't do much other than a MADCOW workout 3x a week, measure/weigh all intake, weigh myself everyday and I'm pretty comfortable saying I'm maintaining at 2,800-2,900 cals.

I'm not sure who you are comparing yourself too. I live on the coast, go to the beach 2x a week this time of year. You are leaner than 99% people I see.

Springfield1970

I've done both UD2 (6 cycles) and bulking and cutting.

UD2 is genius, utterly beautiful and effective. It just makes you feel like dying and everyone around you will be concerned about your health. It's very extreme, and it worried me a bit. In the power workouts, I felt very strong though.

Over winter I bulked, which was an utter joy tbh. It was good for me mentally to feel that food was a positive thing and I did quite a good job of having a high p ratio(less fat to muscle gains) because I started after a deep cut to 16/17% body fat.

The cut has been dead slow, on purpose, so I can train for tri season. I'm happy with the results.

I also read 'Racing Weight' and follow it. At the bottom of my cut last autumn I ran a 21min 5k using Matt's methods. I had been running for 14 months and was 43. I think I used to do a 5k in over 30 minutes when I was high body fat (30%).

Anyway, after kicking and screaming through the slight fat gain on the bulk, I conclude that it's much easier to live with, in rest season, but I finished it too late and started my tri training too fat to do well this year. Next year I'm going to be finished by Xmas with the foodz and cutting faster to be ready by February for the training.

Interested in hearing if you tried out the mass gain variant of UD2.0? Obvs less extreme in terms of cals on the depletion days...

No I just did the normal version. I shudder to think I went down to 1200 on those depletion days. I felt like a sponge that was having the life squeezed out of it. I wouldn't do it again but I learned a lot about my body in that time. My whole composition totally changed, people were really amazed at the sudden muscle definition that the cutting revealed, but I made great strength and muscle gains too. It really made me believe in very short term muscle gains. Even now I let myself go over calories after weight training, if I'm hungry. I naturally cut a little too on cardio days, so am still recomping in a way.

jimmmer

No I just did the normal version. I shudder to think I went down to 1200 on those depletion days. I felt like a sponge that was having the life squeezed out of it. I wouldn't do it again but I learned a lot about my body in that time. My whole composition totally changed, people were really amazed at the sudden muscle definition that the cutting revealed, but I made great strength and muscle gains too. It really made me believe in very short term muscle gains. Even now I let myself go over calories after weight training, if I'm hungry. I naturally cut a little too on cardio days, so am still recomping in a way.

Thanks for the insights!

Did you stick with his machine-based recommendations, or did you sub in barbell work for the depletion workouts? I'd be more interested in it if I could do it with barbells only and continue to gain strength. He's a bit of a fan of machine work though...

jrodri0105

increase your fiber intake for constipation.