You already have all the weight you need to squat
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There seems to be a little bit of confusion as to the fact that if you get under a barbell and squat, you'll have massive legs. Or if you do bodyweight training you won't add mass.
As lofteren notes, you can have a higher intensity and lower volume under a barbell and you'll get strength adaptations without loads of mass.
You can also incorporate pistols into some thing like Staley's EDT and you'll build some mass if you eat enough.
People have got to divorce strength/hypertrophy/weighted/unweighted training and look at it all with a critical eye.
Can I ask a stupid question? How is Staley's EDT different than Tabatas?0 -
There seems to be a little bit of confusion as to the fact that if you get under a barbell and squat, you'll have massive legs. Or if you do bodyweight training you won't add mass.
As lofteren notes, you can have a higher intensity and lower volume under a barbell and you'll get strength adaptations without loads of mass.
You can also incorporate pistols into some thing like Staley's EDT and you'll build some mass if you eat enough.
People have got to divorce strength/hypertrophy/weighted/unweighted training and look at it all with a critical eye.
And this is why I find it frustrating that the issue is consistently framed as "body weight" vs. "heavy weights."
It would be better is to have a discussion of goals that included all of the tools to get there.
You want massive thighs - consider these options.
You don't want massive thighs - consider these options.
It's a question of intensity and volume.
But people do get caught up in their favourite thing and it skews their perspective towards other things.
The main thing is you have to trig your intensity/volume/diet right to get the adaptation you want. Then have some kind of intelligent progression and recovery to keep forcing that adaption.
Then you just have to do the hard work and be consistent....(!)
Another stupid question: is intensity = speed X load0 -
There seems to be a little bit of confusion as to the fact that if you get under a barbell and squat, you'll have massive legs. Or if you do bodyweight training you won't add mass.
As lofteren notes, you can have a higher intensity and lower volume under a barbell and you'll get strength adaptations without loads of mass.
You can also incorporate pistols into some thing like Staley's EDT and you'll build some mass if you eat enough.
People have got to divorce strength/hypertrophy/weighted/unweighted training and look at it all with a critical eye.
And this is why I find it frustrating that the issue is consistently framed as "body weight" vs. "heavy weights."
It would be better is to have a discussion of goals that included all of the tools to get there.
You want massive thighs - consider these options.
You don't want massive thighs - consider these options.
It's a question of intensity and volume.
But people do get caught up in their favourite thing and it skews their perspective towards other things.
The main thing is you have to trig your intensity/volume/diet right to get the adaptation you want. Then have some kind of intelligent progression and recovery to keep forcing that adaption.
Then you just have to do the hard work and be consistent....(!)
Another stupid question: is intensity = speed X load
EDT is where you take either your 10 RM for two lifts and alternatively do 5 reps of each for 15-20mins. Or you take your 6RM and do 3 Reps alternatively for 15-20mins. As you get further on, then reps go down... you maybe on singles by the time you get to the end of the allotted time. You record the total reps for the session. Next time if you improve by 20% on the number of reps, you add weight to the lift and start again.
Intensity is percentage of your 1RM for a lift.
Speed x load is power. So an olympic lift uses less weight than a powerlift, but moves much faster so has a higher power generation. Powerlifting is confusingly named in terms of the physics when you compare it to Oly lifting...0 -
There seems to be a little bit of confusion as to the fact that if you get under a barbell and squat, you'll have massive legs. Or if you do bodyweight training you won't add mass.
As lofteren notes, you can have a higher intensity and lower volume under a barbell and you'll get strength adaptations without loads of mass.
You can also incorporate pistols into some thing like Staley's EDT and you'll build some mass if you eat enough.
People have got to divorce strength/hypertrophy/weighted/unweighted training and look at it all with a critical eye.
And this is why I find it frustrating that the issue is consistently framed as "body weight" vs. "heavy weights."
It would be better is to have a discussion of goals that included all of the tools to get there.
You want massive thighs - consider these options.
You don't want massive thighs - consider these options.
It's a question of intensity and volume.
But people do get caught up in their favourite thing and it skews their perspective towards other things.
The main thing is you have to trig your intensity/volume/diet right to get the adaptation you want. Then have some kind of intelligent progression and recovery to keep forcing that adaption.
Then you just have to do the hard work and be consistent....(!)
god lord there is a lot of YES in this post.
Thank you.0 -
There seems to be a little bit of confusion as to the fact that if you get under a barbell and squat, you'll have massive legs. Or if you do bodyweight training you won't add mass.
As lofteren notes, you can have a higher intensity and lower volume under a barbell and you'll get strength adaptations without loads of mass.
You can also incorporate pistols into some thing like Staley's EDT and you'll build some mass if you eat enough.
People have got to divorce strength/hypertrophy/weighted/unweighted training and look at it all with a critical eye.
And this is why I find it frustrating that the issue is consistently framed as "body weight" vs. "heavy weights."
It would be better is to have a discussion of goals that included all of the tools to get there.
You want massive thighs - consider these options.
You don't want massive thighs - consider these options.
It's a question of intensity and volume.
But people do get caught up in their favourite thing and it skews their perspective towards other things.
The main thing is you have to trig your intensity/volume/diet right to get the adaptation you want. Then have some kind of intelligent progression and recovery to keep forcing that adaption.
Then you just have to do the hard work and be consistent....(!)
god lord there is a lot of YES in this post.
Thank you.
Cheques payable to Jimmer please....
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Just here to say that just reading the term "pistol squats" makes me shudder lol. Someday I'll be able to do them....0
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i do 10 squats every time i go pee at work. i drink a lot of water. i pee a lot. i do a lot of squats. my booty grew. i like.0
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There seems to be a little bit of confusion as to the fact that if you get under a barbell and squat, you'll have massive legs. Or if you do bodyweight training you won't add mass.
As lofteren notes, you can have a higher intensity and lower volume under a barbell and you'll get strength adaptations without loads of mass.
You can also incorporate pistols into some thing like Staley's EDT and you'll build some mass if you eat enough.
People have got to divorce strength/hypertrophy/weighted/unweighted training and look at it all with a critical eye.
And this is why I find it frustrating that the issue is consistently framed as "body weight" vs. "heavy weights."
It would be better is to have a discussion of goals that included all of the tools to get there.
You want massive thighs - consider these options.
You don't want massive thighs - consider these options.
It's a question of intensity and volume.
But people do get caught up in their favourite thing and it skews their perspective towards other things.
The main thing is you have to trig your intensity/volume/diet right to get the adaptation you want. Then have some kind of intelligent progression and recovery to keep forcing that adaption.
Then you just have to do the hard work and be consistent....(!)
Another stupid question: is intensity = speed X load
EDT is where you take either your 10 RM for two lifts and alternatively do 5 reps of each for 15-20mins. Or you take your 6RM and do 3 Reps alternatively for 15-20mins. As you get further on, then reps go down... you maybe on singles by the time you get to the end of the allotted time. You record the total reps for the session. Next time if you improve by 20% on the number of reps, you add weight to the lift and start again.
Intensity is percentage of your 1RM for a lift.
Speed x load is power. So an olympic lift uses less weight than a powerlift, but moves much faster so has a higher power generation. Powerlifting is confusingly named in terms of the physics when you compare it to Oly lifting...
How do you figure 1RM for a body weight exercise?0 -
I agree with all this and JoRocka's point about training preference based on goals.But people do get caught up in their favourite thing and it skews their perspective towards other things.
Then you just have to do the hard work and be consistent....(!)
I think I derailed the thread with my comment on big legs. My mistake.0 -
I totally agree. I competed in amateur body building for 3 years during my fifties. As I aged I found that, more and more often, i was experiencing joint pain. A friend mentioned that he had an old "Total Gym 1500" gathering dust in his basement and I was welcome to come get it.
I was at first skeptical as I had watched Chuck Norris' commercial in which he does a workout facing the incorrect direction for maximal efficiency and hyped a really useless workout if you are, as I was at the time, older( 60) and looking for a decent resistance workout with a goal of some muscle growth with a concentration on muscle retention. I found that i could modify some of the exercises shown in the manual and "invent' some new ones. I have been an avid user of this and have experienced no joint problems in the extensive use of the Total Gym supplemented with body weight exercises.
My standard workouts are about 30 to 45 minutes( maximum) in duration. I use a pyramid scheme in which I start at the second lowest pin level and 25 reps, then proceed to the next highest level for 15 and up one more for 10. I then work back down through the 15 and 25 rep levels. I up the resistance level on my chest and back days(I always work opposing muscle groups on the same day)and use the highest level of resistance for squats and calf raises and supplement that with free ( body weight only) squats and calf raises on the bottom rung of a short Kitchen ladder which allows for a stretch of the muscle at the bottom.
Body weight Squats can be done in several different iterations( as you mention) that stress the the quads, hams and glutes from different angles.
My workouts are performed in uninterrupted circuits until complete which allows for maximum muscle tension time and produces a a good burn using a 2-0-2 tempo. I use a 3 on 1 off split working biceps, triceps, delts and abs on day 1, legs on day 2 and chest and back and abs on day three. The second round during the week i change up exercises for each body part, normally 2 to 3 exercises per body part except for abs and I use a different single exercise each workout where abs are worked.
I find this scheme leaves me thoroughly fatigued after a work out (with a 'decent' pump) without being overly exhausted and allows for sufficient recovery time. At 65, if I miss a day ... i don't freak out. I just continue with the next days workout as normal. I don't do a lot of cardio but I do walk 2 to 3 miles at a 3-4 mph pace 2 to 3 times per week. I occasionally use a small stepper as a 'warm up' for my resistance workouts... about 10 to 15 minutes which is sufficient to bring my heart rate of to about 60% of maximum.
I eat very clean and only supplement with creatine and whey protein in moderate amounts. I don't count calories incessantly and use a mirror and the way I feel as a gauge for how I am doing. I find that, at 65, I know my body well enough to know when i need a break and when I need to "turn it up" a little. I do occasionally use body weight only exercises only for a week or two just to keep from becoming bored or "stale".0 -
I guess it all depends on your goal. Power lifters, competitive ones, at least, have a single goal...to move increasingly heavier weights. Bodybuilders are attempting to increase muscle mass( hypertrophy).
In its simplest form ... in the first case the goal is achieved by moving increasing amounts of weight for lower reps. in the second case it is done by using "moderate"(which will increase over time) weight to keep tension on the muscle in question for the maximum length of time during a workout.0 -
I am all for body weight exercises! I truly believe that if you can't do a body weight squat, one legged squat, pistol squat, etc. then you are not ready for weight.
that's ridiculous.
They are tools. They are not related one to the other in terms of progression.
I've never been able to do a full perfect form pistol- I have gotten close- because I used to work with them more often- but now I do assisted (usually the cable rope pull down on a fixed point at the gym for me) as accessory work.
Am I supposed to not compete in my power lifting competition because I can't do a pistol? No of course not. that's rubbish.
They are tools.
If they help you meet your goal- then they are the appropriate tool- if they do not help you meet your goal- then it is not the correct tool. A plain body weight squat doesn't help develop your barbell squat. You can do them all day long- but they aren't the same thing- you have to practice a bar bell squat in order to squat properly with a barbell.
Thank you. I can't do a pistol to save my life but can squat close to double body weight. Body weight exercises serve a different purpose. If you haven't watched gymnasts, you don't know how strong you can get using just body weight. However, saying you shouldn't squat a loaded barbell until you can do a pistol is like saying you shouldn't throw a baseball until you can dunk a basketball.0 -
There seems to be a little bit of confusion as to the fact that if you get under a barbell and squat, you'll have massive legs. Or if you do bodyweight training you won't add mass.
As lofteren notes, you can have a higher intensity and lower volume under a barbell and you'll get strength adaptations without loads of mass.
You can also incorporate pistols into some thing like Staley's EDT and you'll build some mass if you eat enough.
People have got to divorce strength/hypertrophy/weighted/unweighted training and look at it all with a critical eye.
And this is why I find it frustrating that the issue is consistently framed as "body weight" vs. "heavy weights."
It would be better is to have a discussion of goals that included all of the tools to get there.
You want massive thighs - consider these options.
You don't want massive thighs - consider these options.
It's a question of intensity and volume.
But people do get caught up in their favourite thing and it skews their perspective towards other things.
The main thing is you have to trig your intensity/volume/diet right to get the adaptation you want. Then have some kind of intelligent progression and recovery to keep forcing that adaption.
Then you just have to do the hard work and be consistent....(!)
Another stupid question: is intensity = speed X load
EDT is where you take either your 10 RM for two lifts and alternatively do 5 reps of each for 15-20mins. Or you take your 6RM and do 3 Reps alternatively for 15-20mins. As you get further on, then reps go down... you maybe on singles by the time you get to the end of the allotted time. You record the total reps for the session. Next time if you improve by 20% on the number of reps, you add weight to the lift and start again.
Intensity is percentage of your 1RM for a lift.
Speed x load is power. So an olympic lift uses less weight than a powerlift, but moves much faster so has a higher power generation. Powerlifting is confusingly named in terms of the physics when you compare it to Oly lifting...
How do you figure 1RM for a body weight exercise?
Well, probably not going to happen.
You could work off 5RM and figure that as a proportion of a notional 1RM. But, it's hard to say because bw progressions tend to be similar but different to the preceding intensity level. Unlike a barbell squat where the movement stays the same but the load on the bar is increased.
You could do it by perceived intensity. But that would depend on how sensitive you were to your body and your experience in general, I think.
Tough call.0 -
There seems to be a little bit of confusion as to the fact that if you get under a barbell and squat, you'll have massive legs. Or if you do bodyweight training you won't add mass.
As lofteren notes, you can have a higher intensity and lower volume under a barbell and you'll get strength adaptations without loads of mass.
You can also incorporate pistols into some thing like Staley's EDT and you'll build some mass if you eat enough.
People have got to divorce strength/hypertrophy/weighted/unweighted training and look at it all with a critical eye.
And this is why I find it frustrating that the issue is consistently framed as "body weight" vs. "heavy weights."
It would be better is to have a discussion of goals that included all of the tools to get there.
You want massive thighs - consider these options.
You don't want massive thighs - consider these options.
It's a question of intensity and volume.
But people do get caught up in their favourite thing and it skews their perspective towards other things.
The main thing is you have to trig your intensity/volume/diet right to get the adaptation you want. Then have some kind of intelligent progression and recovery to keep forcing that adaption.
Then you just have to do the hard work and be consistent....(!)
Another stupid question: is intensity = speed X load
EDT is where you take either your 10 RM for two lifts and alternatively do 5 reps of each for 15-20mins. Or you take your 6RM and do 3 Reps alternatively for 15-20mins. As you get further on, then reps go down... you maybe on singles by the time you get to the end of the allotted time. You record the total reps for the session. Next time if you improve by 20% on the number of reps, you add weight to the lift and start again.
Intensity is percentage of your 1RM for a lift.
Speed x load is power. So an olympic lift uses less weight than a powerlift, but moves much faster so has a higher power generation. Powerlifting is confusingly named in terms of the physics when you compare it to Oly lifting...
How do you figure 1RM for a body weight exercise?
Well, probably not going to happen.
You could work off 5RM and figure that as a proportion of a notional 1RM. But, it's hard to say because bw progressions tend to be similar but different to the preceding intensity level. Unlike a barbell squat where the movement stays the same but the load on the bar is increased.
You could do it by perceived intensity. But that would depend on how sensitive you were to your body and your experience in general, I think.
Tough call.
I can kind of see how it would fit together in the squat progression I've been doing. Even more in the push-up progression, though body weight seems to be more of bringing more/fewer muscles into play with different exercises than increasing intensity on a specific set of muscles.
Thanks for the information!0 -
for reference0
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I know- right? exactly what I was thinking- just a ridiculous concept. LOL. However, saying you shouldn't squat a loaded barbell until you can do a pistol is like saying you shouldn't throw a baseball until you can dunk a basketball.There seems to be a little bit of confusion as to the fact that if you get under a barbell and squat, you'll have massive legs. Or if you do bodyweight training you won't add mass.
As lofteren notes, you can have a higher intensity and lower volume under a barbell and you'll get strength adaptations without loads of mass.
You can also incorporate pistols into some thing like Staley's EDT and you'll build some mass if you eat enough.
People have got to divorce strength/hypertrophy/weighted/unweighted training and look at it all with a critical eye.
And this is why I find it frustrating that the issue is consistently framed as "body weight" vs. "heavy weights."
It would be better is to have a discussion of goals that included all of the tools to get there.
You want massive thighs - consider these options.
You don't want massive thighs - consider these options.
It's a question of intensity and volume.
But people do get caught up in their favourite thing and it skews their perspective towards other things.
The main thing is you have to trig your intensity/volume/diet right to get the adaptation you want. Then have some kind of intelligent progression and recovery to keep forcing that adaption.
Then you just have to do the hard work and be consistent....(!)
Another stupid question: is intensity = speed X load
EDT is where you take either your 10 RM for two lifts and alternatively do 5 reps of each for 15-20mins. Or you take your 6RM and do 3 Reps alternatively for 15-20mins. As you get further on, then reps go down... you maybe on singles by the time you get to the end of the allotted time. You record the total reps for the session. Next time if you improve by 20% on the number of reps, you add weight to the lift and start again.
Intensity is percentage of your 1RM for a lift.
Speed x load is power. So an olympic lift uses less weight than a powerlift, but moves much faster so has a higher power generation. Powerlifting is confusingly named in terms of the physics when you compare it to Oly lifting...
How do you figure 1RM for a body weight exercise?
Well, probably not going to happen.
You could work off 5RM and figure that as a proportion of a notional 1RM. But, it's hard to say because bw progressions tend to be similar but different to the preceding intensity level. Unlike a barbell squat where the movement stays the same but the load on the bar is increased.
You could do it by perceived intensity. But that would depend on how sensitive you were to your body and your experience in general, I think.
Tough call.
I can kind of see how it would fit together in the squat progression I've been doing. Even more in the push-up progression, though body weight seems to be more of bringing more/fewer muscles into play with different exercises than increasing intensity on a specific set of muscles.
Thanks for the information!
Jimmers right- that's what's kind of tricky about them- the movement changes as you make it more difficult. so like I said- they can be complimentary but not the same kind of side by side comparison.
I would really honestly ask Waldo- he does all body weight work for size building- and he's wildly knowledgeable about bw vs barbell work. He knows his ****.0 -
Agreed, single leg pistols are a tough exercise that fire a lot of muscles, and as much as we hate them, burpees are a damn good exercise too0
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Whilst I mostly lift using weights on lifting days (although I tend to pullup and dip on lifting days), I don't believe lifters can knock bodyweight training until they are better than Frank Medrano.
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I'm a BIG fan of bodyweight training. Firstly, since I have no extra money for a gym membership. And second, I can do it at home and it only cost me the price of a book and an app (I like Mark Lauren/YAYOG, too
).
I'm working on the squat progression "challenge" starting next week. I'm excited that I can gain strength without lifting. I think lifting is awesome, too. Just that for those who don't want to or can't, there are alternatives to free weights :flowerforyou:0 -
bump for later0
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