Toxic Friend

lewispwest

My best friend is heavily depressed and has been for years but absolutely refuses to do anything about it as "he doesn't like doctors". This even extends to not going to get a toe infection sorted because he'd have to talk to a doctor about it and he's probably the most stubborn person you'd ever meet.

The problem is he's been my best friend my entire life and I've always been supportive of him but after a visit this afternoon on the way home from the gym, his negativity was just suffocating me. Everything I said was met with a negative response and he snapped at me when I made a quip about something he said.

Now the issue is, I'm trying to stay in a positive frame of mind in order to keep my diet going but being around him is almost poisonous lately and I can't be dealing with it. I can't stop talking to him because he's my best mate but I think I'll hinder my own progress listening to him.

I want to be supportive for him but he won't help himself and is extraordinarily pessimistic about everything. What do you think? Should I give him a few weeks space and try talking again or just pretend like everything's fine and get on with it?

wolverine66

this is tough. you don't want to abandon him, but at the same time, you are having a hard time absorbing all that he is dishing out. what makes it harder is his refusal to do anything. i think i would take some space from him for your own sake. maybe he can explore options that don't involve physicians, like counseling or group therapy stuff? I don't know. But he has to take those steps, because if he doesn't, eventually he will push you away.

chivalryder

Been there myself.

Just break up.

VTRutz

Tell him like it is. Tell him exactly that, that you care about him and want the best for him and you are CONCERNED for him.... and your friendship. Good Luck!

lewispwest

this is tough. you don't want to abandon him, but at the same time, you are having a hard time absorbing all that he is dishing out. what makes it harder is his refusal to do anything. i think i would take some space from him for your own sake. maybe he can explore options that don't involve physicians, like counseling or group therapy stuff? I don't know. But he has to take those steps, because if he doesn't, eventually he will push you away.

That would be logical but I think he's so far gone now that he thinks he knows whats best for himself when it's obviously not the case :-/

I think it's already started to happen with the pushing away. He gave up completely on one of our oldest friends because he stopped coming out on friday nights because he finished work late on those days so I'm pretty sure he'd drop anyone for a daft reason.

I think space apart would be beneficial, I'm unlikely to hear from him as he never texts anyone even when he's in an okay mood and he's too stubborn to make a first move in starting dialogue.

lewispwest

Tell him like it is. Tell him exactly that, that you care about him and want the best for him and you are CONCERNED for him.... and your friendship. Good Luck!

I tried that on the way out of his house yesterday but he just said "whatever" and closed the door.

It's hard but if he's not willing to help himself then I'm not going to ruin my progress right when I've started getting my life in order properly for the sake of his stubbornness :-/

Thanks for the advice anyways

lewispwest

Been there myself.

Just break up.

I think that's probably the most likely outcome of all of this, just a shame that he let himself fall so far when he had the potential to be quite a successful person.

KarenJanine

Been there myself.

Just break up.

I think that's probably the most likely outcome of all of this, just a shame that he let himself fall so far when he had the potential to be quite a successful person.

It's sad but sometimes friendships run their course and for the time being you may be best out of it. You never know - he may get himself back on track in the future, but for now I'd be inclined to give it some space.

lewispwest

Been there myself.

Just break up.

I think that's probably the most likely outcome of all of this, just a shame that he let himself fall so far when he had the potential to be quite a successful person.

It's sad but sometimes friendships run their course and for the time being you may be best out of it. You never know - he may get himself back on track in the future, but for now I'd be inclined to give it some space.

Yeah you're probably right. It's a shame because a good friend I made through him will probably be lost in this as well but I can't let my own mindset be ruined by someone else's self inflicted downfall

Hopefully you're right and he does get himself back together.

Ryan_Case

You have been given a lot of good advice already. The only thing I could possibly add is to change your relationship with him. That is, make the times that you are available to him things like, going for a walk, or coming to the gym with you. Exercise can be amazing at treating depression. It is also, as I am sure you know, a little addictive. If you are not ready to completely cut ties with him, try remolding the time you spend with him. It could help. If it doesn't, and you have to come to the decision to cut ties, at least you will know you have tried everything.

My $.02 anyway.

SyntonicGarden

The thing is, if he truly is depressed, he might be in such a sour place, that he either doesn't see it or doesn't see things getting any better. If there's a history of depression in his family, it might be so commonplace that anything else (like being happy) is just too foreign.

In your situation, it sounds like you can either hold on to the fringes of the friendship or "cut bait," as we say in the US. If there's a way to still be friends and not sever the friendship (or give him the option to sever it), great. Maybe just being around someone who's focused and more positive might help. If you can get him to join you on your journey, without overwhelming him, that might help too.

I hope that your friend gets help, but the reality of it is that he won't do it until he's ready to not feel crappy.

Kotuliak

I want to be supportive for him but he won't help himself and is extraordinarily pessimistic about everything. What do you think? Should I give him a few weeks space and try talking again or just pretend like everything's fine and get on with it?

Based on everything you said, I'd say take a break, to give yourself some space. After that, try to carry your own weather and not let him affect you. Kind of like a doctor helping a patient. Easier said than done, I know, but not impossible.

Also, take control of the relationship, e.g. the setting. For example, don't meet him for drinks, but go for a walk instead. Changing the setting can do wonders for changing the dynamic of the relationship.

lewispwest

If there's a way to still be friends and not sever the friendship (or give him the option to sever it), great.

This would be a perfect solution but he never contacts anyone, it's always left up to the other person to start off any conversations with him. If I don't text him first (and don't meet up) I could probably go the rest of my life without hearing from him again so I doubt that'd work

That is, make the times that you are available to him things like, going for a walk, or coming to the gym with you. Exercise can be amazing at treating depression.

I almost convinced him to join my gym but he backed out of the idea after his toe went all manky and like I said in my OP he refuses to sort it out because he'd have to talk to a doctor about it

lewispwest

I want to be supportive for him but he won't help himself and is extraordinarily pessimistic about everything. What do you think? Should I give him a few weeks space and try talking again or just pretend like everything's fine and get on with it?

Based on everything you said, I'd say take a break, to give yourself some space. After that, try to carry your own weather and not let him affect you. Kind of like a doctor helping a patient. Easier said than done, I know, but not impossible.

Also, take control of the relationship, e.g. the setting. For example, don't meet him for drinks, but go for a walk instead. Changing the setting can do wonders for changing the dynamic of the relationship.

I think that's the best plan of action. I myself am taking anti-depressants (albeit probably quite a low dose) but my moods are very easily affected by others, especially him. If I hadn't gone and spoken to one of my other mates straight after I'm sure I would've dwelled on it all night and it would've put my in a right mood.

I'd like to change the nature of the relationship but he works weekends and I work weekdays so thats out and he's pretty much a shut in except for friday night for drinks

I appreciate the advice and I will take the advice of what people here have said and will leave him be for a while, with a view that if it's too damaging a relationship to have then I will take action.

Thanks all

LTGPSA

Best friends don't treat each other the way he is treating you. You've known him a long time and he's always been this way with no desire to try and change - then it's time to move on. You can't fix him; he has to want to fix himself.

workout_ninja

If there's a way to still be friends and not sever the friendship (or give him the option to sever it), great.

This would be a perfect solution but he never contacts anyone, it's always left up to the other person to start off any conversations with him. If I don't text him first (and don't meet up) I could probably go the rest of my life without hearing from him again so I doubt that'd work

It sounds like you care alot more about the friendship than he does if thats how he acts towards you. First and foremost you have to look after yourself, if he is bringing you down, that is not good for you. Do yourself a favour and just not contact him for a while. If he cares at all about you, he will ask why and you can decide if he is worth keeping as a friend then

Jessie24330

Everyone goes through times of needing to lean on others but when it is all the time it is a different story. You need to put your health first (emotional and physical) because you can't help anyone else if you are not well yourself. I suffer from a lot of mental health issues and there have been people who I considered friends that I had to cut out of my life because our relationships were all me giving and them taking. They were going from one crisis to another and expecting me to sort it out for them. Only coming to me when they wanted/needed something. If you have a relationship with someone who is constantly draining you emotionally or dragging you down, you really need to rethink if it is worth it. I understand that everyone goes through bad times but when them bad times are years on end and they don't do anything to make it better and always give excuses as to why they can't do something you suggest that will make things better than it is really time to put yourself first. Tell him how much he means to you, because it seems like he must mean a lot, and tell him you will always be there when he is ready to change but for now you need to focus on you and your well being because he has proven that he doesn't want to get better yet.

lewispwest

Best friends don't treat each other the way he is treating you. You've known him a long time and he's always been this way with no desire to try and change - then it's time to move on. You can't fix him; he has to want to fix himself.

You're right, I guess it was just hard to accept it. Thank you.

lewispwest

If there's a way to still be friends and not sever the friendship (or give him the option to sever it), great.

This would be a perfect solution but he never contacts anyone, it's always left up to the other person to start off any conversations with him. If I don't text him first (and don't meet up) I could probably go the rest of my life without hearing from him again so I doubt that'd work

It sounds like you care alot more about the friendship than he does if thats how he acts towards you. First and foremost you have to look after yourself, if he is bringing you down, that is not good for you. Do yourself a favour and just not contact him for a while. If he cares at all about you, he will ask why and you can decide if he is worth keeping as a friend then

Yeah I agree, I've always tried hard with trying to be a good friend and it very rarely gets reciprocated so I feel like a mug quite a lot for it.

dropdeadgreggie_

Been there, done that.

I distance myself from negative people. I don't have time for that.

ttilmon

You may need to understand that sometimes people come into our lives for a short time. They bring us friendship, joy, perspective, and then they move on. I think his time has come and gone in your life. Move on to the next "best friend" that is going to bring you what you need and welcome your kindness and friendship.

bluetuesday5

I was like this for several years and when I did finally go to the doctor I was so glad I decided to do something about it. Was more anxiety than depression but I can understand how he feels. I was also guilty of the always waiting for someone to call me thing. Personally I would leave him a little while and if you like try again in a month or two, your attitude can change a lot depending on your present mood with these sort of things as I'm sure you are aware.

futuresize8

Real friendship isn't about being completely selfless all of the time. No relationship can be successful if it's entirely one-sided.

Successful relationships are reciprocal. There may not be equal 50-50 give all of the time - sometimes one person will give more than another to help the other through a tough time, but it shouldn't be that way always.

You are not responsible for his (or anybody's) happiness.

You are responsible for yours.

If helping him brings you happiness and you enjoy it, keep doing it.

If it's emotionally draining, taking up a ton of your energy and time, and is a soul suck, you should taper off.

I have allowed a number of toxic relationships to exist in my past. I will never do it again. Even if the person is related to me. I won't cut people off - I'm not cold. But I will limit how much of myself I am willing to invest in someone who is incapable of helping himself or herself.

Hope that perspective helps. And I hope your friend will get some help.

wolverine66

Been there myself.

Just break up.

I think that's probably the most likely outcome of all of this, just a shame that he let himself fall so far when he had the potential to be quite a successful person.

clinical depression not only effects the person who suffers from it, it also effects the people who care about him/her. Their view of reality is a little skewed. they will push people away and then use the fact that no one comes around as a means to validate and prove they were right about themselves all along.

Though you are not responsible for him, and there may be nothing you can do, but if you want to try to help, I would suggest talking to a professional to see if there is anything you can do just to get him to take that first step.

trijoe

It sounds to me like your friend needs serious help. And the only one who can give him that help is him. Your caring and concern are admirable. But you can't cure him of his depression. The problem with depression, especially in men, is you can't really point to it like you can a broken bone or cut or something, and say "There's the messed up part." For whatever reason, men in particular have a hard time admitting their "wiring" isn't working quite like it should be.

My hunch is, your friend knows he has problems, he's just not willing to cross that line to finding help for them. It's admitting frailty, fault, defeat. (Not really, but my guess is he sees it that way.)

Until he changes, your friendship has no hope of survival, and the friend you knew will keep becoming less obvious over time.

I wish you well figuring it all out. I have no answers for you, only observations. And I'm sorry you - and your friend - are having to go through this. You sound like a really good guy to have as a friend.

George_Baileys_Ghost

What would Pooh do?





Nah, but seriously, it people are constantly bringing you down, and never do anything to bring you up, you have to ask yourself what the relationship is really worth. Sometimes the best things for us are the most difficult things to do.

djprice_69

If he's your best friend, tell him flat out what you're telling us. You can't make the change for him, but he seems to be changing you. In short - you're unequally yolked in this friendship. Tell him he needs help and that you make him get help, but that he's dragging you down with his whine-*****-moan attitude. Maybe cutting him off for a couple of weeks will help him understand that you're dead serious - he needs help.

Best of luck, mate. I went through this a few years ago with a good friend who was the same way. I stuck with him for awhile and we even worked together, but when his poor attitude hung me out to dry at work, that was it. This was years ago! He went through a DUI, followed by bankruptcy, followed by a divorce, and just got fired from his job last week. He never listened to me much back then, so I can't imagine that if I had stuck around he would have been any different. What I can say with certainty is that had I stuck around, I definitely would have been different - in a very bad way.

Again, I really do wish you the best of luck.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

mojohowitz

There is lots of mental illness in my immediate family. It's not a simple fix and you can't fix it. I know I will probably get flamed for it, but humans must take responsibility for their own health. Even mental health.

So, people will ask: What if a persons ability to take responsibility is prevented by their mental illness? Tough ****. I've known people with depression and schizophrenics my whole life. They do calm down and have lucid moments where they can make responsible decisions. Many choose not to. A small percentage do and go on to live semi-independent lives.

I am grossly simplifying the mental health issue. Unless someone figures out how to financially reward physicians who successfully treat mental illness it will never be addressed.

Anyway, its not your problem to solve and you can't do it. Keep yourself sane. Make sure your friend knows he has a standing offer for help from you and move in.

gypsy_spirit

What would Pooh do?





Nah, but seriously, it people are constantly bringing you down, and never do anything to bring you up, you have to ask yourself what the relationship is really worth. Sometimes the best things for us are the most difficult things to do.

I love Eeyore so very much. Thanks, GBG.

If this depressing mood has been hovering since high school and your friend is not receptive to getting help, there is very little you can do. Sometimes when we grow up, we have to learn to put boundaries in place. Stay in contact if you want to, but put some space there. It's all about what you want in your life. Toxic friends, your description, can only have effect if we let them. Good luck.

LJDaye

I had a very similar situation with a very good friend of mine. Unfortunately for me then answer has been to cut ties and move on. I tried talking to her, I tried asking for some space and time and nothing really worked and the situation continued to go on as toxic. Eventually I had to choose what was most important to me and that was my well being and my sanity. I care about this friend very much and hope to one day reconnect but I'm not sure that will ever happen. For now, I'm living a good life and looking out for myself. I wish you the best of luck with this situation.