Eating before bed

gotolam

For the most part, if you avoid eating before bed you'll likely increase fat oxidation in your sleep but this is meaningless without considering what happens to fat oxidation and fat storage over larger periods of time.

Just for example if you were to eat all your calories at night then you'd store more fat in your sleep (fat storage would exceed fat oxidation) but you would also increase fat oxidation during the day because you're not eating then (during the day, fat oxidation exceeds fat storage).

Holding total calories constant and shifting them between AM and PM isn't likely going to have a significant effect on the net difference between fat storage and fat oxidation, and when we look at multiple studies on meal timing they don't tend to point towards one method being arbitrarily superior which is why we basically conclude that it's not going to be significantly important.

Having said all of that mouthful, let personal preference, lifestyle, and gym performance primarily dictate your meal timing. Having an arbitrary cut-off for reasons outside of the previously mentioned factors is basically silly, and it's only going to serve to add additional nonsense to your plan.

Thank you for the measured response. I'm not 100% sure I agree but your first sentence definitely gives me something to chew on.

Alyssa_Is_LosingIt

For the most part, if you avoid eating before bed you'll likely increase fat oxidation in your sleep but this is meaningless without considering what happens to fat oxidation and fat storage over larger periods of time.

Just for example if you were to eat all your calories at night then you'd store more fat in your sleep (fat storage would exceed fat oxidation) but you would also increase fat oxidation during the day because you're not eating then (during the day, fat oxidation exceeds fat storage).

Holding total calories constant and shifting them between AM and PM isn't likely going to have a significant effect on the net difference between fat storage and fat oxidation, and when we look at multiple studies on meal timing they don't tend to point towards one method being arbitrarily superior which is why we basically conclude that it's not going to be significantly important.

Having said all of that mouthful, let personal preference, lifestyle, and gym performance primarily dictate your meal timing. Having an arbitrary cut-off for reasons outside of the previously mentioned factors is basically silly, and it's only going to serve to add additional nonsense to your plan.

Thank you for the measured response. I'm not 100% sure I agree but your first sentence definitely gives me something to chew on.

You may not 100% agree with gravity, but that doesn't make it any less true. If meal timing were that important, then everyone who works the night shift would be obese.

SideSteel

For the most part, if you avoid eating before bed you'll likely increase fat oxidation in your sleep but this is meaningless without considering what happens to fat oxidation and fat storage over larger periods of time.

Just for example if you were to eat all your calories at night then you'd store more fat in your sleep (fat storage would exceed fat oxidation) but you would also increase fat oxidation during the day because you're not eating then (during the day, fat oxidation exceeds fat storage).

Holding total calories constant and shifting them between AM and PM isn't likely going to have a significant effect on the net difference between fat storage and fat oxidation, and when we look at multiple studies on meal timing they don't tend to point towards one method being arbitrarily superior which is why we basically conclude that it's not going to be significantly important.

Having said all of that mouthful, let personal preference, lifestyle, and gym performance primarily dictate your meal timing. Having an arbitrary cut-off for reasons outside of the previously mentioned factors is basically silly, and it's only going to serve to add additional nonsense to your plan.

Thank you for the measured response. I'm not 100% sure I agree but your first sentence definitely gives me something to chew on.

No worries if you don't agree.

Just consider what happens in the big picture with respect to making changes to meal frequency OR meal timing (you are correct that as far as research is concerned they are separate and I failed to make that distinction in my post).

Typically when people make the claim that a given meal timing is better they are not considering what happens in a time-frame beyond "right after that meal" so to speak. So the claim is that eating before bed makes you fat because you store more fat in your sleep but this neglects to consider what I mentioned in my original post.

I believe there are a few studies at leangains that make some comparisons between evening and daytime calories, and there's another one here -- and for clarity this is about breakfast skipping which also muddies the water a bit, but consider that they are moving those breakfast calories to lunch/dinner to hold total cals constant:

http://www.obesityresearchclinicalpractice.com/article/S1871-403X(13)00008-2/abstract

I do not have the full text but I'm a member of Krieger's research review at weightology.net where he basically dissected this and included study details. I'd post them but it's sort of plagiarizing James.

At any rate, if you suspect otherwise, as though a given meal timing is superior due to effects outside of adherence/preference, I'd be interested in seeing the basis for that.

We do have some research showing large breakfasts being beneficial but it seems more likely that this is due to satiation/compliance vs some sort of metabolic effect.

_Zardoz_

Myth. Eat when you want!

What do you base this on?

Science

One of many studies if you google that all seem to point to meal times or frequency having no effect

http://www.jissn.com/content/8/1/4

Unknown

This content has been removed.

SideSteel

One additional thing --- the inclusion of an exercise program further complicates things because now you have the meal timing aspect with respect to the training bout.

The point of the previous posts I made was basically that I don't think we have conclusive evidence that a given meal timing is going to be superior provided that we are comparing equal calories. Since we don't have this, it makes logical sense (a damn lot of logical sense if you ask me) to then structure your meal timing in a way that provides you the maximum adherence and fits best within your lifestyle and your training needs.

If you think about it, doing anything OTHER than this would be remarkably foolish unless somehow a given meal timing were monumentally important to fat loss, and if it WERE, I would think research would indicate it as such by now.

gotolam

One additional thing --- the inclusion of an exercise program further complicates things because now you have the meal timing aspect with respect to the training bout.

The point of the previous posts I made was basically that I don't think we have conclusive evidence that a given meal timing is going to be superior provided that we are comparing equal calories. Since we don't have this, it makes logical sense (a damn lot of logical sense if you ask me) to then structure your meal timing in a way that provides you the maximum adherence and fits best within your lifestyle and your training needs.

If you think about it, doing anything OTHER than this would be remarkably foolish unless somehow a given meal timing were monumentally important to fat loss, and if it WERE, I would think research would indicate it as such by now.

I definitely agree with your logic. If somehow meal timing (one way or the other), leads to the over consumption of calories and weakens adherence than, clearly, that individual should follow a regimen that avoids over consumption.

I posed the question because, all other things being equal, I'm abstractly curious about the concept of maximizing weight loss (i.e. efficiency) if an individual can control meal timing without over consumption.

I am also curious about how the MFP community, as can be seen in just a few posts above this one, will uncategoricaly state that meal timing has absolutely no effect on weight loss. When asked for the basis, the only answer is "science." Someone even commented that just bringing up this topic is akin to questioning gravity. I'm curious to know how that mindset has come about because I think the vast majority of folks who tend to say "Meal timing has no effect!" are basing there opinions on studies related to meal frequency.

gotolam

Myth. Eat when you want!

What do you base this on?

Science

One of many studies if you google that all seem to point to meal times or frequency having no effect

http://www.jissn.com/content/8/1/4

The article you cited specifically deals with meal frequency....not the topic at hand, which is meal timing.

Interestingly, if you actually take the time to read the article, it DOES say that there is an effect. Note the bulleted points in the abstract (particularly #2, #3, and #5:



1. Increasing meal frequency does not appear to favorably change body composition in sedentary populations.

2. If protein levels are adequate, increasing meal frequency during periods of hypoenergetic dieting may preserve lean body mass in athletic populations.

3. Increased meal frequency appears to have a positive effect on various blood markers of health, particularly LDL cholesterol, total cholesterol, and insulin.

4. Increased meal frequency does not appear to significantly enhance diet induced thermogenesis, total energy expenditure or resting metabolic rate.

5. Increasing meal frequency appears to help decrease hunger and improve appetite control.



Just based on this article alone (that you cited), it completely contradicts your blanket statement that meal timing/frequency have no effect.

gotolam

For the most part, if you avoid eating before bed you'll likely increase fat oxidation in your sleep but this is meaningless without considering what happens to fat oxidation and fat storage over larger periods of time.

Just for example if you were to eat all your calories at night then you'd store more fat in your sleep (fat storage would exceed fat oxidation) but you would also increase fat oxidation during the day because you're not eating then (during the day, fat oxidation exceeds fat storage).

Holding total calories constant and shifting them between AM and PM isn't likely going to have a significant effect on the net difference between fat storage and fat oxidation, and when we look at multiple studies on meal timing they don't tend to point towards one method being arbitrarily superior which is why we basically conclude that it's not going to be significantly important.

Having said all of that mouthful, let personal preference, lifestyle, and gym performance primarily dictate your meal timing. Having an arbitrary cut-off for reasons outside of the previously mentioned factors is basically silly, and it's only going to serve to add additional nonsense to your plan.

Thank you for the measured response. I'm not 100% sure I agree but your first sentence definitely gives me something to chew on.

You may not 100% agree with gravity, but that doesn't make it any less true. If meal timing were that important, then everyone who works the night shift would be obese.

No not everyone. But there are studies that show night shift workers are disproportionately overweight. There are also studies (albeit non-human) that show meal timing affects circadian rhythms and other metabolic behaviors.

Your comparison to gravity isn't actually helpful (and can be seen as quite smug).

s_pekz

My personal fav bedtime snack is a bowl of lucky charms and a glass of chocolate milk. Best post long day at work snack ever.

Meal timing means nothing.

Some people cant sleep with a full stomach. I am one of those who cannot sleep on an empty stomach.

Either way weight loss is CICO.

JoeCampbell85

Nutrition is a sloppy science. The sooner we all accept that, the better off we are. Nutritional studies are plagued with poor self reporting, systematic complications, and tons of other issues.

Find out what works best for you. I personally eat about 30 minutes before bed time every night and I'm doing fine.

SideSteel

I am also curious about how the MFP community, as can be seen in just a few posts above this one, will uncategoricaly state that meal timing has absolutely no effect on weight loss. When asked for the basis, the only answer is "science." Someone even commented that just bringing up this topic is akin to questioning gravity. I'm curious to know how that mindset has come about because I think the vast majority of folks who tend to say "Meal timing has no effect!" are basing there opinions on studies related to meal frequency.

I think it's pretty common to make grey areas into black or white and I've certainly been guilty of this myself. You see it a lot on mfp but you also see it in many other places too.


Meal timing and frequency may have some relevance in that it can interact with satiety and adherence and performance and these things matter a great deal. I simultaneously believe that if there are metabolic effects of timing or frequency (again these are separate however they both bring about identical concerns) they don't appear to be significant.

But the previous statement is substantially different than saying "it's entirely irrelevant".


Edit: I'm using the term "metabolic effects" very loosely and probably somewhat incorrectly but I hope the point is made.