Weight loss is not linear; Is fat loss?

AnswerzPwease

Just curious.

Weight loss I presume is not linear due to the body holding water, etc.

However, thermodynamics dictates that if you burn more energy than you consume you should constantly be using your fat stores to sustain. Correct? Therefore, even though the scale is not linear, fat loss should be, right?

BombshellPhoenix

Depends. If you're losing muscle along with fat your BF% will remain the same or similar throughout. Fat loss is ultimately more important than scale loss, obviously. So, that's why people recommend losing at a moderate pace and getting a good amount of protein, weightlifting to reduce muscle loss

DeguelloTex

It seems to me that unless the deficit just goes *poof* that the "true" loss has to be there, even if it's masked by other factors. Otherwise CICO is false. It also seems like losing muscle -- though not ideal -- would only accelerate the process since there's not as much energy in a pound of muscle as in a pound of fat.

BigT555

im going to say no

as you get closer to you goal weight, you need to decrease your deficit in order to prevent muscle loss, so in that case you are losing less fat than before changing your deficit obviously

if you dont lower your deficit, you will begin to lose more muscle, so again in this case the loss wouldn't be linear

AnswerzPwease

Depends. If you're losing muscle along with fat your BF% will remain the same or similar throughout. Fat loss is ultimately more important than scale loss, obviously. So, that's why people recommend losing at a moderate pace and getting a good amount of protein, weightlifting to reduce muscle loss

I had a bariatric doctor tell me a few years ago that obese people worry so much about muscle loss during weight loss and its absolutely ridiculous. He said that the active obese person has an excess of muscle, especially in their legs and quads due to carrying all the excess weight and losing some muscle is not a big deal at all.

I can't tell you whether its true. But he is a very well known / award winning bariatric doctor in NY.

AnswerzPwease

im going to say no

as you get closer to you goal weight, you need to decrease your deficit in order to prevent muscle loss, so in that case you are losing less fat than before changing your deficit obviously

if you dont lower your deficit, you will begin to lose more muscle, so again in this case the loss wouldn't be linear

Haha that was assumed.

I should have mentioned that. My fault.

Holly_Roman_Empire

Depends. If you're losing muscle along with fat your BF% will remain the same or similar throughout. Fat loss is ultimately more important than scale loss, obviously. So, that's why people recommend losing at a moderate pace and getting a good amount of protein, weightlifting to reduce muscle loss

I had a bariatric doctor tell me a few years ago that obese people worry so much about muscle loss during weight loss and its absolutely ridiculous. He said that the active obese person has an excess of muscle, especially in their legs and quads due to carrying all the excess weight and losing some muscle is not a big deal at all.

I can't tell you whether its true. But he is a very well known / award winning bariatric doctor in NY.

It makes sense to me, but I think a great deal depends on your goals. I don't know why anybody wouldn't want to retain as much muscle as possible. Sure, I understand that some people just want to be thin, and that's fine, but so many people (on here specifically) reach their goal weight and are unhappy with the result. This is why advice pertaining to muscle retention is given so readily.

DeguelloTex

im going to say no

as you get closer to you goal weight, you need to decrease your deficit in order to prevent muscle loss, so in that case you are losing less fat than before changing your deficit obviously

if you dont lower your deficit, you will begin to lose more muscle, so again in this case the loss wouldn't be linear

Linear under constant conditions.

parkscs

Depends. If you're losing muscle along with fat your BF% will remain the same or similar throughout. Fat loss is ultimately more important than scale loss, obviously. So, that's why people recommend losing at a moderate pace and getting a good amount of protein, weightlifting to reduce muscle loss

I had a bariatric doctor tell me a few years ago that obese people worry so much about muscle loss during weight loss and its absolutely ridiculous. He said that the active obese person has an excess of muscle, especially in their legs and quads due to carrying all the excess weight and losing some muscle is not a big deal at all.

I can't tell you whether its true. But he is a very well known / award winning bariatric doctor in NY.

There's some truth to that. I'd say your average obese person has more muscle overall than your average "skinny fat" person. That said, it's all the more reason to lift if you're obese and losing weight, as you want to retain as much of that muscle as possible.

BigT555

im going to say no

as you get closer to you goal weight, you need to decrease your deficit in order to prevent muscle loss, so in that case you are losing less fat than before changing your deficit obviously

if you dont lower your deficit, you will begin to lose more muscle, so again in this case the loss wouldn't be linear

Linear under constant conditions.

there are no constant conditions if you are losing weight though. do you mean constant calorie intake? that would be the second situation i mentioned

DeguelloTex

Depends. If you're losing muscle along with fat your BF% will remain the same or similar throughout. Fat loss is ultimately more important than scale loss, obviously. So, that's why people recommend losing at a moderate pace and getting a good amount of protein, weightlifting to reduce muscle loss

I had a bariatric doctor tell me a few years ago that obese people worry so much about muscle loss during weight loss and its absolutely ridiculous. He said that the active obese person has an excess of muscle, especially in their legs and quads due to carrying all the excess weight and losing some muscle is not a big deal at all.

I can't tell you whether its true. But he is a very well known / award winning bariatric doctor in NY.

It makes sense. Now that I've started lifting, it's obvious that my legs are disproportionately stronger than my upper body. Note that I wrote "disproportionately." Of course they'd be expected to be somewhat stronger. They've been carrying around an extra 100+ pounds for a while, so it stands to reason that they'd be relatively strong.

I have no desire to lose any more strength than need be. I'd rather have my upper body catch up, not my legs fall back.

DeguelloTex

im going to say no

as you get closer to you goal weight, you need to decrease your deficit in order to prevent muscle loss, so in that case you are losing less fat than before changing your deficit obviously

if you dont lower your deficit, you will begin to lose more muscle, so again in this case the loss wouldn't be linear

Linear under constant conditions.

there are no constant conditions if you are losing weight though. do you mean constant calorie intake? that would be the second situation i mentioned

I mean constant deficit.

AnswerzPwease

im going to say no

as you get closer to you goal weight, you need to decrease your deficit in order to prevent muscle loss, so in that case you are losing less fat than before changing your deficit obviously

if you dont lower your deficit, you will begin to lose more muscle, so again in this case the loss wouldn't be linear

Linear under constant conditions.

there are no constant conditions if you are losing weight though. do you mean constant calorie intake? that would be the second situation i mentioned

I think he means a constant % of defecit.

For example, 20% defecit of TDEE at all times.

AnswerzPwease

Depends. If you're losing muscle along with fat your BF% will remain the same or similar throughout. Fat loss is ultimately more important than scale loss, obviously. So, that's why people recommend losing at a moderate pace and getting a good amount of protein, weightlifting to reduce muscle loss

I had a bariatric doctor tell me a few years ago that obese people worry so much about muscle loss during weight loss and its absolutely ridiculous. He said that the active obese person has an excess of muscle, especially in their legs and quads due to carrying all the excess weight and losing some muscle is not a big deal at all.

I can't tell you whether its true. But he is a very well known / award winning bariatric doctor in NY.

It makes sense. Now that I've started lifting, it's obvious that my legs are disproportionately stronger than my upper body. Note that I wrote "disproportionately." Of course they'd be expected to be somewhat stronger. They've been carrying around an extra 100+ pounds for a while, so it stands to reason that they'd be relatively strong.

I have no desire to lose any more strength than need be. I'd rather have my upper body catch up, not my legs fall back.

Same here. I can squat 400 pounds but my bench press is struggling at 120 pounds haha. I feel pathetic.

3dogsrunning

I have a few random thoughts.

I agree with what you said about the doctor. I would say muscle loss is not as big of a concern for those with a lot of weight to lose. Not to the point I would totally ignore it, but not as big of a concern as when you are closer to goal.

It is impossible for is to keep constant consistent deficit so there is always that factor.

While CICO rules and is the biggest factor, hormones play a role as well so that could be another complicating factor.

BigT555

im going to say no

as you get closer to you goal weight, you need to decrease your deficit in order to prevent muscle loss, so in that case you are losing less fat than before changing your deficit obviously

if you dont lower your deficit, you will begin to lose more muscle, so again in this case the loss wouldn't be linear

Linear under constant conditions.

there are no constant conditions if you are losing weight though. do you mean constant calorie intake? that would be the second situation i mentioned

I think he means a constant % of defecit.

For example, 20% defecit of TDEE at all times.

well since TDEE decreases as you lose weight, your deficit would also decrease, therefore you would be losing less fat no?

WalkingAlong

Depends. If you're losing muscle along with fat your BF% will remain the same or similar throughout. Fat loss is ultimately more important than scale loss, obviously. So, that's why people recommend losing at a moderate pace and getting a good amount of protein, weightlifting to reduce muscle loss

I had a bariatric doctor tell me a few years ago that obese people worry so much about muscle loss during weight loss and its absolutely ridiculous. He said that the active obese person has an excess of muscle, especially in their legs and quads due to carrying all the excess weight and losing some muscle is not a big deal at all.

I can't tell you whether its true. But he is a very well known / award winning bariatric doctor in NY.

That's what I've read. I feel like the fear of LBM loss here is overblown, and the belief that you can control it with deficit size probably is, too. I'm sure there is some effect but not "lose slow = 100% muscle retention, lose fast = 0%", which is the impression some seem to have.

I suspect that losing up to 1% of your weight per week is generally considered safe because anything that slow isn't going to be an issue with LBM. So any of us could safely shoot for 1.5 lbs/week, virtually (excluding the tiny teens, of course).

3dogsrunning

im going to say no

as you get closer to you goal weight, you need to decrease your deficit in order to prevent muscle loss, so in that case you are losing less fat than before changing your deficit obviously

if you dont lower your deficit, you will begin to lose more muscle, so again in this case the loss wouldn't be linear

Linear under constant conditions.

there are no constant conditions if you are losing weight though. do you mean constant calorie intake? that would be the second situation i mentioned

I think he means a constant % of defecit.

For example, 20% defecit of TDEE at all times.

The problem with that is that TDEE is just an estimate. So is the food we eat regardless of how diligently you weight and measure. Hopefully we get close enough on average that we see results but we will never be exact. There will always be variances.

DeguelloTex

im going to say no

as you get closer to you goal weight, you need to decrease your deficit in order to prevent muscle loss, so in that case you are losing less fat than before changing your deficit obviously

if you dont lower your deficit, you will begin to lose more muscle, so again in this case the loss wouldn't be linear

Linear under constant conditions.

there are no constant conditions if you are losing weight though. do you mean constant calorie intake? that would be the second situation i mentioned

I think he means a constant % of defecit.

For example, 20% defecit of TDEE at all times.

well since TDEE decreases as you lose weight, your deficit would also decrease, therefore you would be losing less fat no?

My goal deficit per day is 1000 calories in MFP. It has been 1000 since I started. Whenever I hit a new low weight, I have MFP recalculate my calorie goal for two pounds per week. How is that not constant, given the limitations of being a human being and not a computer simulation?

BigT555

im going to say no

as you get closer to you goal weight, you need to decrease your deficit in order to prevent muscle loss, so in that case you are losing less fat than before changing your deficit obviously

if you dont lower your deficit, you will begin to lose more muscle, so again in this case the loss wouldn't be linear

Linear under constant conditions.

there are no constant conditions if you are losing weight though. do you mean constant calorie intake? that would be the second situation i mentioned

I think he means a constant % of defecit.

For example, 20% defecit of TDEE at all times.

well since TDEE decreases as you lose weight, your deficit would also decrease, therefore you would be losing less fat no?

My goal deficit per day is 1000 calories in MFP. It has been 1000 since I started. Whenever I hit a new low weight, I have MFP recalculate my calorie goal for two pounds per week. How is that not constant, given the limitations of being a human being and not a computer simulation?

if your goal deficit has always been 1000 and you are losing weight then your % deficit is not constant. your tdee isnt constant since you are losing weight, so the ratio of fat to muscle loss will decrease as you move along

WBB55

Just curious.

Weight loss I presume is not linear due to the body holding water, etc.

However, thermodynamics dictates that if you burn more energy than you consume you should constantly be using your fat stores to sustain. Correct? Therefore, even though the scale is not linear, fat loss should be, right?

I like this weightloss simulator. It gives a visual of the blips that happen to everyone when they make "lifestyle" changes to their diet and exercise. The link to the simulator is towards the middle, and you may need to allow popups and java to run, if you turn those things off. Maybe this will help you visualize the theories about what's happening to your body.

WARNING, there's lots of info you have to put in so it's making it's estimate for you (like putting in your body fat% and activity level and other stuff -- everything in the green boxes). You'll note that it has a body fat% tab to see the change over time to body fat %. Of course, this is just a simulator, and you can turn on the "weight range" option to see the error rate lines.

You know... if you're the kind of person that clicks on links on the internet.

http://www.niddk.nih.gov/research-funding/at-niddk/labs-branches/LBM/integrative-physiology-section/body-weight-simulator/Pages/body-weight-simulator.aspx