Interesting Video on 'Sugar: The Bitter Truth'
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7 proven benefits of dark chocolate:More recent research is finding that it is not necessarily sugar or carbs that particularly cause the problems like non-alcoholic fatty liver disease but over consumption of total calories does -- which is very easy to do with foods that are laden with hidden sugars.
That being said, it's a good idea to try to limit consumption of calorie-dense foods that have few nutrients or fiber. Sugar falls firmly into that category. Devote your calories to foods that also provide the nutrients you need for health.
But tonight, we will have rhubarb clafouti made with real sugar. I'm not saying one must eliminate added sugars from diet but instead to be mindful -- the rest of supper will be a tabouli with beans.
http://authoritynutrition.com/7-health-benefits-dark-chocolate/0 -
Really, now? Page 1 had a gif. No one got up in arms over the Colbert gif saying "No." This came before any so called intelligent discussion. In fact, apart from the handy links, most of the first page of this thread (and sprinkled throughout) is along the lines of, "No thanks, I'd rather eat a doughnut." Page 2 is almost 1/4 gifs saying "No" or similar. Pages 3 and 4 are basically arguments about food addiction, turning into a tedious definition battle of the phrase "nutritional value." Then there's a "who can out-peer-review" each other contest.
Just when you think an intelligent discussion is taking place, in pops the gif brigade to remind you some here are in junior high.
Instead of just posting a stupid gif why don't you try some intelligent discussion. Stupid crap like this is just insulting to both sides of any debate. You make a fool of yourself. Hell I don't think you've even posted in this topic and now you come in spam a stupid gif as if your experience covers the sum totality of knowledge. Lady just because you have never formed a sugar or carb habit doesn't mean it can't happen. So kindly stow the arrogance.
And ok chemical component is perhaps the wrong word everything has a chemical component. But the mechanism of addiction is totally different from a formed habit. A habit is entirely formed and governed within the realm of normal psychology. Sugar and carbs are in no way at all in any sense chemically addictive in and of themselves. They just form strong habits because people like them. And people confuse this with an addiction. Usually people who have never really experienced a strong addiction in their lives. And don't really know what they are talking about. Sorry but it's true.
You. I get where you're coming from, even though we don't see eye to eye. :drinker:
But if you like debate, why don't you check out the threads on this EXACT SAME VIDEO posted a few months ago.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1145634-sugar-the-bitter-truth
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1071347-sugar-the-bitter-truth
The funny thing is that the longer thread (the top one was a duplicate of the original one, even) follows a very similar pattern to this one. You'll like that thread.
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Dude she didn't even say a single word. She didn't even STATE her opinion. She just posted a smart-*kitten* gif and left. I just think that's insulting to everyone. I don't think sugar is evil or addicting either. I just say I can understand why some people THINK it is cos it's pretty easy to habit form around over consumption of sugar. I got no problem with your response.
If you think thread gifs are insulting than perhaps Internet forums aren't for you. Lighten up and stop telling people what they can and cannot post.0 -
So you just ignore all the studies that say LONG TERM low carb high fat diets are not good? Sure...lose the weight that way, but do you have a plan if it causes you problems down the road? http://authoritynutrition.com/23-studies-on-low-carb-and-low-fat-diets/
No, not true. All foods stimulates the pleasure center of the brain, because we need it to survive. Mother nature's way of making sure we can carry on to reproduce. That doesn't mean it is addictive.
Yes, but some foods do this more than others. Including foods never seen in nature in the form we see them in now, not to mention the abundance. Saying we can't addict ourselves to food is like saying we can't addict ourselves to alcohol because our ancestors have been drinking it for thousands of years and sometimes it was a safer bet than water.0 -
Dude she didn't even say a single word. She didn't even STATE her opinion. She just posted a smart-*kitten* gif and left. I just think that's insulting to everyone. I don't think sugar is evil or addicting either. I just say I can understand why some people THINK it is cos it's pretty easy to habit form around over consumption of sugar. I got no problem with your response.
Are you the thread police?
Are you serious? lol you make me laugh. I mean come on that reply was basically saying chill dude i'm not the thread polce.
Please read this
http://markmanson.net/internet
And then realize how many wrong assumptions you are probably making about me. In short text conveys intent with the subtlety of a brick through the window.0 -
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Just when you think an intelligent discussion is taking place, in pops the gif brigade to remind you some here are in junior high.
Instead of just posting a stupid gif why don't you try some intelligent discussion. Stupid crap like this is just insulting to both sides of any debate. You make a fool of yourself. Hell I don't think you've even posted in this topic and now you come in spam a stupid gif as if your experience covers the sum totality of knowledge. Lady just because you have never formed a sugar or carb habit doesn't mean it can't happen. So kindly stow the arrogance.
And ok chemical component is perhaps the wrong word everything has a chemical component. But the mechanism of addiction is totally different from a formed habit. A habit is entirely formed and governed within the realm of normal psychology. Sugar and carbs are in no way at all in any sense chemically addictive in and of themselves. They just form strong habits because people like them. And people confuse this with an addiction. Usually people who have never really experienced a strong addiction in their lives. And don't really know what they are talking about. Sorry but it's true.
You. I get where you're coming from, even though we don't see eye to eye. :drinker:
And it's real mature to try to subtly insult people because they aren't participating in a discussion the way "you" want them to.
I wasn't aware of being subtle. And was not trying to be. I am out and out condemning her for not participating in the discussion at all. What she did is the equivalent of jumping in the middle of two people having a conversation and obnoxiously blowing raspberry at them. What she did was not making a point she didn't even clearly come down on one side or the other. Why are you even defending her lol?
That's funny, it doesn't say "MFP MODERATOR" beside your username.
Nor do I have to be to have an opinion on this practice. If you don't like it .. lump it. Because it aint changing for you. Nor am i the only one offended by this approach. frankly i think your approach to things is a little warped. You've been hanging around on internet forums too much. You need to go out and re learn what actual human interaction is like.0 -
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There's no sugar in the Italian diet? They have pastries, they eat ricotta and mozzarella (does milk sugar not count)? Even parmesan has a small amount of sugar. They have candy there, and Ferrero is an Italian company (you know, they manufacture Nutella, chocolate, bunch of other sweet stuff...yeah, that Ferrero)...enough said...what a bunch of hooey.I've tried several times over the years to get through that Lustig video. His credentials sound good but his delivery style turns me off. It feels too sensationalized to be authoritative.
"Fructose IS POISON."
"The rise in sugar and drop in fat is AN ABSOLUTE UNMITIGATED DISASTER."
"Every single word Yudkin wrote decades ago was prophecy, It's ASTOUNDING. Every. single. word."
"There's no sugar in the Italian diet, other than gelatto."
And he talks about logical fallacies but he shows chart after chart of correlations but never seems to mention causation. Yes, fruit juice intake has gone up and so has obesity. So has the price of cars. Or maybe he does get into causation. I never get to the end.
I suspect there's a kernel of truth in his stuff and Taubes', though. I wouldn't dismiss it all out of hand, I just think they probably take it a little too far.0 -
There's no sugar in the Italian diet? They have pastries, they eat ricotta and mozzarella (does milk sugar not count)? Even parmesan has a small amount of sugar. They have candy there, and Ferrero is an Italian company (you know, they manufacture Nutella, chocolate, bunch of other sweet stuff...yeah, that Ferrero)...enough said...what a bunch of hooey.I've tried several times over the years to get through that Lustig video. His credentials sound good but his delivery style turns me off. It feels too sensationalized to be authoritative.
"Fructose IS POISON."
"The rise in sugar and drop in fat is AN ABSOLUTE UNMITIGATED DISASTER."
"Every single word Yudkin wrote decades ago was prophecy, It's ASTOUNDING. Every. single. word."
"There's no sugar in the Italian diet, other than gelatto."
And he talks about logical fallacies but he shows chart after chart of correlations but never seems to mention causation. Yes, fruit juice intake has gone up and so has obesity. So has the price of cars. Or maybe he does get into causation. I never get to the end.
I suspect there's a kernel of truth in his stuff and Taubes', though. I wouldn't dismiss it all out of hand, I just think they probably take it a little too far.
If Lustig is a cannoli denier, well, that says it all.0 -
If the Gif Jr. High folks can post their disapproval of a discussion with gifs, I think the people discussing can voice their disapproval of the gifs with words. It's like multilingual. :laugh:0
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I tried low carb and hated it, it made me feel really sick. Now if I had tried a low fat version of low carb, then maybe I would have had a different reaction, but why would I do that when it is not necessary? As for the breakfasts, I have this low carb high protein oatmeal thing, and I mix an envelope of that with regular oatmeal and voila, high protein oatmeal breakfast...and oatmeal is good for you.Some people do have trouble losing on low carb or find it unsustainable. Some do overeat on bacon and eggs and roasted chicken with veggies and giant steaks. And many, many people don't react to a piece of bread like you say you do. On the whole I think meat is pretty satiating and don't overeat on it, but I'd never go nuts and eat lots of bread or potatoes, as the anti carb people claim people do. (Maybe fries, but only because of the fat, and I bet I could easily eat as many bacon or cheese calories. I've sat and eaten a bag of cheese curds like some say they eat chips or you say you would bread. I could do the same with nuts if I allowed myself.)
If my diet is unbalanced I am likely to feel more in need of energy overall and eat more, and individual items may be high in carbs and calories while being unsatisfying (why I think carb heavy breakfasts are a bad idea), but that's different than the claim that eating some food item somehow makes you unable to control yourself. That's not my experience. And steak plus bread is IME as or more filling than just steak. Bread on its own, not so much, but definitely not some sort of trigger. Same with plain old sugar.0 -
Everyone needs to chill out and have a big cup of sugar.
And bacon.....0 -
I tried low carb and hated it, it made me feel really sick. Now if I had tried a low fat version of low carb, then maybe I would have had a different reaction, but why would I do that when it is not necessary? As for the breakfasts, I have this low carb high protein oatmeal thing, and I mix an envelope of that with regular oatmeal and voila, high protein oatmeal breakfast...and oatmeal is good for you.Some people do have trouble losing on low carb or find it unsustainable. Some do overeat on bacon and eggs and roasted chicken with veggies and giant steaks. And many, many people don't react to a piece of bread like you say you do. On the whole I think meat is pretty satiating and don't overeat on it, but I'd never go nuts and eat lots of bread or potatoes, as the anti carb people claim people do. (Maybe fries, but only because of the fat, and I bet I could easily eat as many bacon or cheese calories. I've sat and eaten a bag of cheese curds like some say they eat chips or you say you would bread. I could do the same with nuts if I allowed myself.)
If my diet is unbalanced I am likely to feel more in need of energy overall and eat more, and individual items may be high in carbs and calories while being unsatisfying (why I think carb heavy breakfasts are a bad idea), but that's different than the claim that eating some food item somehow makes you unable to control yourself. That's not my experience. And steak plus bread is IME as or more filling than just steak. Bread on its own, not so much, but definitely not some sort of trigger. Same with plain old sugar.
I'm not sure how this follows from my post, which is fine, but just makes me wonder if I've been misread. I think low carb works for some people, but I wouldn't like it so am certainly not advocating it as the best way.
But I'm going to agree that oatmeal can be part of a balanced breakfast, of course. I'm fond of steel cut oats cooked (for ease) in a rice cooker. Not low carb, but an okay amount of protein, especially when I add some milk. (I also always add fruit which of course has, gasp!, sugar.) By carb heavy I meant mostly carbs and little protein at all, like when I used to buy a bagel on the way to work.0 -
Thank you for posting the link and your encouragement to watch the video. I love learning.Here is an interesting video on 'Sugar: The Bitter Truth' well worth watching if you have the time. It may give you a different perspective on sugar. It may help with your weight loss journey or it may not but interesting non the less.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM
It helps me on my journey. I gave up refined sugar when I started the program. I don't crave it at all anymore.0 -
Just found this article. It's a bit of a side track, but it shows that people might develop food issues they didn't suffer from before as a result of losing the weight:
"Another way that the body seems to fight weight loss is by altering the way the brain responds to food. Rosenbaum and his colleague Joy Hirsch, a neuroscientist also at Columbia, used functional magnetic resonance imaging to track the brain patterns of people before and after weight loss while they looked at objects like grapes, Gummi Bears, chocolate, broccoli, cellphones and yo-yos. After weight loss, when the dieter looked at food, the scans showed a bigger response in the parts of the brain associated with reward and a lower response in the areas associated with control. This suggests that the body, in order to get back to its pre-diet weight, induces cravings by making the person feel more excited about food and giving him or her less willpower to resist a high-calorie treat."
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/magazine/tara-parker-pope-fat-trap.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
So it seems to me that those of us who have been overweight and lost the weight need to be extra careful about possible trigger foods.0 -
You're right, he calls it strike two and a half as far as deciding it is indeed addictive in humans, although it's definitely addictive in rats. The whole piece is worth a read, obviously I can't post it all here.
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/01/the-sugar-addiction-taboo/282699/
The Sugar-Addiction Taboo
When can you call a food addictive?
ROBERT H. LUSTIGJAN 2 2014, 11:00 AM ET
I've argued previously that excess sugar has been added to processed food because the food industry knows that when they add it, we buy more. And 77 percent of the food items available in the American grocery store are spiked with added sugar. But is this just “wanting”, or are we “needing”? Is sugar just abused, or is it downright addictive? In animals, it’s a “no-brainer.” Dr. Nicole Avena of Columbia University exposes rats to sugar water in an excess-deprivation paradigm for three weeks, and they demonstrate all the criteria needed to diagnose addiction: binging, withdrawal, craving, and addiction transfer (when you’re addicted to one substance, you’re addicted to others as well).
I fully agree that sugar is addicting. The food industry relies heavily on sugar because it is cheap and it sells. It is not the sugar itself that is the problem but rather the sheer quantity of sugar that some ingest on a very regular basis. Those eating a high sugar diet will of course say there is nothing wrong with it just the same way an alcoholic will deny any problems with alcohol.0 -
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Anything in excess is not good, but I'm a firm believer that most foods God created won't harm us in moderation.
Yes, and the key words are IN MODERATION. :glasses:
According to some experts, 'eating in moderation' with respect to weight loss is just an excuse to eat what you want. On the surface it seems appealing and benign but in the end will lead to regaining weight lost. That is evident even in the forums where some are on MFP for the second, third or even fourth time. If the eat in moderation method of weight control worked, there would be any regaining of weight lost during maintenance.0 -
I tried low carb and hated it, it made me feel really sick. Now if I had tried a low fat version of low carb, then maybe I would have had a different reaction, but why would I do that when it is not necessary? As for the breakfasts, I have this low carb high protein oatmeal thing, and I mix an envelope of that with regular oatmeal and voila, high protein oatmeal breakfast...and oatmeal is good for you.Some people do have trouble losing on low carb or find it unsustainable. Some do overeat on bacon and eggs and roasted chicken with veggies and giant steaks. And many, many people don't react to a piece of bread like you say you do. On the whole I think meat is pretty satiating and don't overeat on it, but I'd never go nuts and eat lots of bread or potatoes, as the anti carb people claim people do. (Maybe fries, but only because of the fat, and I bet I could easily eat as many bacon or cheese calories. I've sat and eaten a bag of cheese curds like some say they eat chips or you say you would bread. I could do the same with nuts if I allowed myself.)
If my diet is unbalanced I am likely to feel more in need of energy overall and eat more, and individual items may be high in carbs and calories while being unsatisfying (why I think carb heavy breakfasts are a bad idea), but that's different than the claim that eating some food item somehow makes you unable to control yourself. That's not my experience. And steak plus bread is IME as or more filling than just steak. Bread on its own, not so much, but definitely not some sort of trigger. Same with plain old sugar.
I'm not sure how this follows from my post, which is fine, but just makes me wonder if I've been misread. I think low carb works for some people, but I wouldn't like it so am certainly not advocating it as the best way.
But I'm going to agree that oatmeal can be part of a balanced breakfast, of course. I'm fond of steel cut oats cooked (for ease) in a rice cooker. Not low carb, but an okay amount of protein, especially when I add some milk. (I also always add fruit which of course has, gasp!, sugar.) By carb heavy I meant mostly carbs and little protein at all, like when I used to buy a bagel on the way to work.
I'm following the Essene Diet for maintenance which does not restrict carbs but I still feel better eating lower carb. Most of my carb intake is not added sugar either. Like many, higher sugar intake does have negative side effects for me.0 -
If the Gif Jr. High folks can post their disapproval of a discussion with gifs, I think the people discussing can voice their disapproval of the gifs with words. It's like multilingual. :laugh:
Expressing disapproval is one thing. Belittling them for using gifs is another and could be seen as equally sophomoric as you claim them to be.0 -
Just when you think an intelligent discussion is taking place, in pops the gif brigade to remind you some here are in junior high.
Instead of just posting a stupid gif why don't you try some intelligent discussion. Stupid crap like this is just insulting to both sides of any debate. You make a fool of yourself. Hell I don't think you've even posted in this topic and now you come in spam a stupid gif as if your experience covers the sum totality of knowledge. Lady just because you have never formed a sugar or carb habit doesn't mean it can't happen. So kindly stow the arrogance.
And ok chemical component is perhaps the wrong word everything has a chemical component. But the mechanism of addiction is totally different from a formed habit. A habit is entirely formed and governed within the realm of normal psychology. Sugar and carbs are in no way at all in any sense chemically addictive in and of themselves. They just form strong habits because people like them. And people confuse this with an addiction. Usually people who have never really experienced a strong addiction in their lives. And don't really know what they are talking about. Sorry but it's true.
You. I get where you're coming from, even though we don't see eye to eye. :drinker:
And it's real mature to try to subtly insult people because they aren't participating in a discussion the way "you" want them to.
I wasn't aware of being subtle. And was not trying to be. I am out and out condemning her for not participating in the discussion at all. What she did is the equivalent of jumping in the middle of two people having a conversation and obnoxiously blowing raspberry at them. What she did was not making a point she didn't even clearly come down on one side or the other. Why are you even defending her lol?
I was responding to the person I quoted. You are, once again, taking things too personally..especially when it isn't even being said to/about you.0 -
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You're right, he calls it strike two and a half as far as deciding it is indeed addictive in humans, although it's definitely addictive in rats. The whole piece is worth a read, obviously I can't post it all here.
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/01/the-sugar-addiction-taboo/282699/
The Sugar-Addiction Taboo
When can you call a food addictive?
ROBERT H. LUSTIGJAN 2 2014, 11:00 AM ET
I've argued previously that excess sugar has been added to processed food because the food industry knows that when they add it, we buy more. And 77 percent of the food items available in the American grocery store are spiked with added sugar. But is this just “wanting”, or are we “needing”? Is sugar just abused, or is it downright addictive? In animals, it’s a “no-brainer.” Dr. Nicole Avena of Columbia University exposes rats to sugar water in an excess-deprivation paradigm for three weeks, and they demonstrate all the criteria needed to diagnose addiction: binging, withdrawal, craving, and addiction transfer (when you’re addicted to one substance, you’re addicted to others as well).
I fully agree that sugar is addicting. The food industry relies heavily on sugar because it is cheap and it sells. It is not the sugar itself that is the problem but rather the sheer quantity of sugar that some ingest on a very regular basis. Those eating a high sugar diet will of course say there is nothing wrong with it just the same way an alcoholic will deny any problems with alcohol.
You might find this interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5WT_SjMjgA
At around 55 minutes, Dr. Lustig plays a clip of Eric Clapton talking about being a sugar addict. When a former heroin user doesn't scoff at the idea of sugar being addictive, that for me lends weight to the definition. Also in the link I quoted from the New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/magazine/tara-parker-pope-fat-trap.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 one of the people interviewed who has lost a lot of weight and kept it off speaks of sugar and white flour in the same addiction terms.
But there is more to it than just obvious addiction and binge eating behavior. For every person who craves a sugar fix in an obvious way, how many people are just overeating a bit here and bit there that they wouldn't be overeating if they weren't getting too much sugar in the diet and messing with the body's satiety signals? How many who aren't overweight will develop diabetes even though they never become obese?0 -
At around 55 minutes, Dr. Lustig plays a clip of Eric Clapton talking about being a sugar addict. When a former heroin user doesn't scoff at the idea of sugar being addictive, that for me lends weight to the definition. Also in the link I quoted from the New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/magazine/tara-parker-pope-fat-trap.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 one of the people interviewed who has lost a lot of weight and kept it off speaks of sugar and white flour in the same addiction terms.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence".0 -
At around 55 minutes, Dr. Lustig plays a clip of Eric Clapton talking about being a sugar addict. When a former heroin user doesn't scoff at the idea of sugar being addictive, that for me lends weight to the definition. Also in the link I quoted from the New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/magazine/tara-parker-pope-fat-trap.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 one of the people interviewed who has lost a lot of weight and kept it off speaks of sugar and white flour in the same addiction terms.
The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence".
No, but there is plenty of actual evidence that some foods are addicting. And it's proven to be addictive in rats by the criteria. If any food was proven, in study after to study, to give rats, for example, early dementia, how comfortable would you feel eating it every day just because it was almost but not quite proven in humans?0 -
If any food was proven, in study after to study, to give rats, for example, early dementia, how comfortable would you feel eating it every day just because it was almost but not quite proven in humans?
Since this isn't the case with addiction and sugar, this is a strawman argument.0 -
If any food was proven, in study after to study, to give rats, for example, early dementia, how comfortable would you feel eating it every day just because it was almost but not quite proven in humans?
Since this isn't the case with addiction and sugar, this is a strawman argument.
In animal studies it is proven to be addictive.
Humans? Close: http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/01/the-sugar-addiction-taboo/282699/
I'm going to take his word for it, absent other experts with equal education in relevant fields linking relevant data.0
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