Lifting to failure?
raindawg
Posts: 348 Member
I'm starting week 11 of my bulk tomorrow on a progressive workout plan and have a question on how important it is to go to failure on your last set versus just achieving the progression. My first 6 weeks I went to failure on each exercise during the last set but started feeling burned out and losing motivation to keep pushing, so I switched it up. Now as long as I hit my progression goal I consider it good. The advantage is I seem to recover faster and progressions and motivation have been steady. But am I sacrificing muscle growth if I'm not hitting those "money reps" each workout? Don't get me wrong I have to push hard to hit the progression and a lot of time I'm barely getting them, but I do have something left in the tank for a one or two more reps when I finish the last set a lot of times.
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Replies
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Really depends mate, I personally don't. This is the wrong place to ask IMO.0
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Set up a game plan with periodization in mind. More gains and more fun.
http://suppversity.blogspot.com/search?q=Periodization0 -
I'm starting week 11 of my bulk tomorrow on a progressive workout plan and have a question on how important it is to go to failure on your last set versus just achieving the progression. My first 6 weeks I went to failure on each exercise during the last set but started feeling burned out and losing motivation to keep pushing, so I switched it up. Now as long as I hit my progression goal I consider it good. The advantage is I seem to recover faster and progressions and motivation have been steady. But am I sacrificing muscle growth if I'm not hitting those "money reps" each workout? Don't get me wrong I have to push hard to hit the progression and a lot of time I'm barely getting them, but I do have something left in the tank for a one or two more reps when I finish the last set a lot of times.
Some of the answers depend on how you train. If you are doing heavy compound lifts the conventional wisdom is that training to failure is significantly more dangerous and taxing to the human body than going to failure on isolation lifts. If you are lifting at high rep weights the answer is going to be somewhat dependent on you and how frequently you are training the muscle groups. Going to failure on bicep curls once or twice a week probably won't impede your over all progress.
But as a general rule, if you are able to progressively increase your max lift, volume and/or time under tension you are making injury free gains. So why would you go back to a lifting style that overall made you feel sluggish and negatively impacted your desire to train? Seems like you might be trying to fix something that is not broken. If you are ona good program and feeling good overall, trust the process and evaluate again if you truly begin to stall.0 -
Don't know how helpful this is but, i don't. (I don't have a spotter or safety's anyway so I really can't afford to) I go till it feels iffy, as if, I tried another rep, I'd fail. My programme only calls for this on the last set anyway and as long as I beat the last sessions weight and/or reps, I'm happy.0
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Don't know how helpful this is but, i don't. (I don't have a spotter or safety's anyway so I really can't afford to) I go till it feels iffy, as if, I tried another rep, I'd fail. My programme only calls for this on the last set anyway and as long as I beat the last sessions weight and/or reps, I'm happy.
This is where I am now. I've been able to beat the last sessions at a fairly steady clip since I went away from the combination progression and failure philosophy. But I came across a thread recently that spoke to the failure reps as the key one's that trigger the muscle growth. I was curious what others are doing.0 -
Lifting to failure isn't really very popular in the strength community anymore. Lately it's 'Lift until the last rep you can complete with OK form."
or "leave 1 in the tank"0 -
if you look at the intermediate/advanced lifting programs- you'll see a lot of high volume- but never to failure.
Training to failure is extremely taxing on the CNS- and most of the time it's not going to get you what you want.
But really it's goal dependent. So figure out what you want goal wise- then pick the path that gets you there. Rather than picking a path first and hoping for results. It'll make you less crazy- I promise.0 -
if you look at the intermediate/advanced lifting programs- you'll see a lot of high volume- but never to failure.
Training to failure is extremely taxing on the CNS- and most of the time it's not going to get you what you want.
But really it's goal dependent. So figure out what you want goal wise- then pick the path that gets you there. Rather than picking a path first and hoping for results. It'll make you less crazy- I promise.
Interesting thread.... I have seen some discussions recommending to train to failure if we want to increase strength and muscle size. This is what I am trying to do at the moment.... For some sets, I can complete only a few reps....
so why it's not good to train to failure? what is the CNS?0 -
There is a sliding scale between volume, frequency and intensity. Training to failure is considered an "intensity" technique, but intensity is technically defined as a percentage of a 1-rep max. That being said the more intense you train the less volume and frequency you'll need to employ. Everyone has a different tolerance to training in terms of recovery ability. You need to find the balance. Constantly training to failure may lead you to "deload' more often, so if you want to train to failure than periodize your training to employ periods of training to failure and periods where you don't.0
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There is a sliding scale between volume, frequency and intensity. Training to failure is considered an "intensity" technique, but intensity is technically defined as a percentage of a 1-rep max. That being said the more intense you train the less volume and frequency you'll need to employ. Everyone has a different tolerance to training in terms of recovery ability. You need to find the balance. Constantly training to failure may lead you to "deload' more often, so if you want to train to failure than periodize your training to employ periods of training to failure and periods where you don't.
Volume? Do you mean the number of reps? What does "deload" mean? I am not sure to get everything.
I am trying to bulk at the moment, so do you recommend me to train to failure?0 -
Lifting to failure isn't really very popular in the strength community anymore. Lately it's 'Lift until the last rep you can complete with OK form."
or "leave 1 in the tank"
if you ask me, that is essentailly what training to failure means.
personally, i don't see how a training method that doesn't at least flirt with hitting this level of exhaustion on nearly every set gets you anywhere.
even when you do higher reps in periodization, you want to choose a weight where your at least approaching failure. your body gets a brake on the wieght, not necessairly the effort0 -
Look at it objectively. Are you progressing with this technique? If not, then it's not the technique for you.
Some people get great progression from it, others don't.
A.C.E. Certified Personal & Group FitnessTrainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
From what I hear both work but lifting to failure is more effective in building muscle because it puts more stress on the existing muscle fibers. Muscle is rebuilt during your rest period not during your workout. As long as your doing something that challenges your muscles they will grow in response. It's worth mentioning that failure doesn't mean lift until your muscles give out from exhaustion, but lifting until you can no longer lift with the proper form.
Lifting until they can't respond anymore is the most stress you can put on them. The more you do this the more important your rest period becomes though. If you are putting a lot of stress on your muscles and you don't give them time to recovery you won't make gains no matter what you do. Protein intake is big too.
(Note: I'm not a body builder this is just my own personal research from one training plan that has worked for me in the past)0 -
You should be incorporating sets to failure for each muscle group each week. How often depends on your recovery. But studies have shown that failure results in the most hypertrophy.
What is your current split? I can't really make recomendations without knowing it0 -
Lifting to failure isn't really very popular in the strength community anymore. Lately it's 'Lift until the last rep you can complete with OK form."
or "leave 1 in the tank"
X20 -
It depends on your programming as a whole, but generally, you do not need (and should not) go to failure (unless you are looking at lighter loads), especially for hypertrophy.0
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Many train to balls to the wall failure, namely HIT advocates but its not stricktly required. IMO its better to stick to your choosen set/rep range and aim to hit your numbres and work on poundage progression over time. This will mean less deloads and less chance of burnout of the CNS, also training to failure is brutally hard work and your mind needs to be in the right place to do it hence it should be done sparingly.0
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You should be incorporating sets to failure for each muscle group each week. How often depends on your recovery. But studies have shown that failure results in the most hypertrophy.
What is your current split? I can't really make recomendations without knowing it
Can you please post these studies? What were the dropout rates due to injury? What population? Which exercises were selected?
OP: this is contextual but if I had to generalize is say you shouldn't train to failure in most circumstances. Especially with heavy compound lifts due to injury risk. You can make great progress with intelligent programming while staying under true failure.0 -
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You should be incorporating sets to failure for each muscle group each week. How often depends on your recovery. But studies have shown that failure results in the most hypertrophy.
What is your current split? I can't really make recomendations without knowing it
really?
which program supports that?
Studies?
Who endorses that?0 -
I don't lift to failure since I use free weights at home. {all by my lonesome} I lift twice a week with a weight increase at the beginning of each month. The first couple of workouts with the new weight does come close to failure. I may even have to wait a minute to finish the set with proper form. I'm 53 and had never lifted until a few months ago, so I'm happy with the rate of progression. There is no need for me to rush anything.0
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I'm starting week 11 of my bulk tomorrow on a progressive workout plan and have a question on how important it is to go to failure on your last set versus just achieving the progression. My first 6 weeks I went to failure on each exercise during the last set but started feeling burned out and losing motivation to keep pushing, so I switched it up. Now as long as I hit my progression goal I consider it good. The advantage is I seem to recover faster and progressions and motivation have been steady. But am I sacrificing muscle growth if I'm not hitting those "money reps" each workout? Don't get me wrong I have to push hard to hit the progression and a lot of time I'm barely getting them, but I do have something left in the tank for a one or two more reps when I finish the last set a lot of times.
Some of the answers depend on how you train. If you are doing heavy compound lifts the conventional wisdom is that training to failure is significantly more dangerous and taxing to the human body than going to failure on isolation lifts. If you are lifting at high rep weights the answer is going to be somewhat dependent on you and how frequently you are training the muscle groups. Going to failure on bicep curls once or twice a week probably won't impede your over all progress.
But as a general rule, if you are able to progressively increase your max lift, volume and/or time under tension you are making injury free gains. So why would you go back to a lifting style that overall made you feel sluggish and negatively impacted your desire to train? Seems like you might be trying to fix something that is not broken. If you are ona good program and feeling good overall, trust the process and evaluate again if you truly begin to stall.
Pretty much this.
The risk to reward ratio of going to actual failure as opposed to technical failure (struggling to perform the last few reps with good form) probably isn't worth it, especially with your big compound lifts.0 -
You should be incorporating sets to failure for each muscle group each week. How often depends on your recovery. But studies have shown that failure results in the most hypertrophy.
What is your current split? I can't really make recomendations without knowing it
Can you please post these studies? What were the dropout rates due to injury? What population? Which exercises were selected?
OP: this is contextual but if I had to generalize is say you shouldn't train to failure in most circumstances. Especially with heavy compound lifts due to injury risk. You can make great progress with intelligent programming while staying under true failure.
Muscleandfitness.com bro. Do u even?0 -
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ask-the-muscle-prof-training-to-failure-helping-or-hurting-me.html
References to Brad Shoenfeld among a few others.0 -
Bump,0
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http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ask-the-muscle-prof-training-to-failure-helping-or-hurting-me.html
References to Brad Shoenfeld among a few others.
definetly a good read. its probably pretty typical that i only really hit failure on my last set anyways. thought i was being lazy lol.
looks like i should rethink things tho0 -
One of the biggest problems I have seen with lifters in the gym who make little progress out of the beginner realm is training intensity. Training to failure ensures a baseline level of intensity and encourages progress and setting PRs which is a great way to make gains. If your goal is to progress to the advanced range it is very difficult for me to imagine doing so without failure. The best programs I have used and seen all incorporate failure(mountain dog, DC, PHAT)0
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One of the biggest problems I have seen with lifters in the gym who make little progress out of the beginner realm is training intensity. Training to failure ensures a baseline level of intensity and encourages progress and setting PRs which is a great way to make gains. If your goal is to progress to the advanced range it is very difficult for me to imagine doing so without failure. The best programs I have used and seen all incorporate failure(mountain dog, DC, PHAT)
Shieko/Smolov are all highly successful none failure programs
Madcow I believe also has you repeat failed weeks
Greyskull and Wendlers I believe have you train to failure-but reset you to 90% but from what I'm reading- most people don't take GSLP to failure- it's mighty taxing.
This is a quote I read and I think it sums things up nicely.Sometimes I think people get a little too nuts on the last set and I think many people would be best served if they did the last set for the set reps…or just a few over and call it a day. This is not a license to be a *****; just understand that we are training for something bigger than today.
it's about more than today- when you have a larger goal- training to failure EVER time you lift is counter productive.0 -
One of the biggest problems I have seen with lifters in the gym who make little progress out of the beginner realm is training intensity. Training to failure ensures a baseline level of intensity and encourages progress and setting PRs which is a great way to make gains. If your goal is to progress to the advanced range it is very difficult for me to imagine doing so without failure. The best programs I have used and seen all incorporate failure(mountain dog, DC, PHAT)
Shieko/Smolov are all highly successful none failure programs
Madcow I believe also has you repeat failed weeks
Greyskull and Wendlers I believe have you train to failure-but reset you to 90% but from what I'm reading- most people don't take GSLP to failure- it's mighty taxing.
This is a quote I read and I think it sums things up nicely.Sometimes I think people get a little too nuts on the last set and I think many people would be best served if they did the last set for the set reps…or just a few over and call it a day. This is not a license to be a *****; just understand that we are training for something bigger than today.
it's about more than today- when you have a larger goal- training to failure EVER time you lift is counter productive.
I would agree. training to failure every workout is usually not a great idea. I recommend usually training each muscle twice a week, once to failure and one sub-failure pump style or take a deload week when fatigue sets in.
smolov is great and can add some good muscle to the legs but is not ideal for long term hypertropht. It does have a great volume component, which is a great way to get hypertrophy without failure0
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