Lifting to failure?

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Replies

  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    Someone running smolov probably isn't looking for pure hypertrophy.


    All about goals my friend.- which is why blanket statements about "progression should include failure" are not particularly helpful or wise.
  • charlieibeling
    charlieibeling Posts: 93 Member
    Someone running smolov probably isn't looking for pure hypertrophy.


    All about goals my friend.- which is why blanket statements about "progression should include failure" are not particularly helpful or wise.

    very true, i was just looking at the OP's goal of a bulk.
  • No_Finish_Line
    No_Finish_Line Posts: 3,661 Member
    my brain struggles to reboot from its Joe Wieder programming
  • scooterjay_wwis
    scooterjay_wwis Posts: 120 Member
    I do not lift to failure.
    I do stronglifts 5x5, 3x a week, and continue to increase weight, strength, and size
    . I used to lift to failure, but it was too much of a drain everyday mentally.
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,834 Member
    Jorocka: Plenty of people miss lifts on smolov actually! Because it is high volume and intensity. Depending on maxes it can be quite large jumps in intensity also.

    For the purpose of hypertrophy, no it isn't required. Sufficient progressive overload does not mean training to failure.
  • charlieibeling
    charlieibeling Posts: 93 Member
    the nice thing about training to failure is it cuts down the need for volume which allows for increased opportunity to train a muscle as recovery is easier. I just started scott stevensons fortitude training in which a muscle is trained to failure 3-4 times a week followed by a deload phase. pretty good stuff
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    the nice thing about training to failure is it cuts down the need for volume which allows for increased opportunity to train a muscle as recovery is easier. I just started scott stevensons fortitude training in which a muscle is trained to failure 3-4 times a week followed by a deload phase. pretty good stuff

    Most of what I have read, if/when you train to failure, you should use light loads when you do for more optimal results - which in theory therefore would mean more time/volume.
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,834 Member
    About the only time I train to failure is on isolation exercises where I want to go to the point of doing negatives. Curls are the only thing I can think of.

    I have always trained with a fairly high volume (and frequency) but as I'm cutting now and aiming to retain strength not increase it, I am dropping volume and pushing close to failure more often.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    Jorocka: Plenty of people miss lifts on smolov actually! Because it is high volume and intensity. Depending on maxes it can be quite large jumps in intensity also.

    For the purpose of hypertrophy, no it isn't required. Sufficient progressive overload does not mean training to failure.

    Of course people miss lifts all the time- I'm running Sheiko- and you're not SUPPOSED to miss lifts, but I have. Many times people get greedy about their 1RMP when they input it into the chart- and or are not eating/resting enough.

    But the goal is to just lift a LOT all the time- not train to failure.

    But you and I both know- just because you aren't supposed to miss lifts doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

    I'm not ANTI failure- I just think people sometimes get carried away with the "always train to failure" mantra, whereas on the flip side- I see a lot of women holding back b/c they are afraid of failure. There is a time and place for failure training and I do not think it is wrong or right- but you just need to know your goals and have a plan of attack.
  • charlieibeling
    charlieibeling Posts: 93 Member
    thread summary

    You do not need to train to failure to make progress. Training to failure has benefits. If training to failure one should back off periodically to rest CNS. Do periods of both.
  • DeadliftAddict
    DeadliftAddict Posts: 746 Member
    I'm starting week 11 of my bulk tomorrow on a progressive workout plan and have a question on how important it is to go to failure on your last set versus just achieving the progression. My first 6 weeks I went to failure on each exercise during the last set but started feeling burned out and losing motivation to keep pushing, so I switched it up. Now as long as I hit my progression goal I consider it good. The advantage is I seem to recover faster and progressions and motivation have been steady. But am I sacrificing muscle growth if I'm not hitting those "money reps" each workout? Don't get me wrong I have to push hard to hit the progression and a lot of time I'm barely getting them, but I do have something left in the tank for a one or two more reps when I finish the last set a lot of times.

    Some of the answers depend on how you train. If you are doing heavy compound lifts the conventional wisdom is that training to failure is significantly more dangerous and taxing to the human body than going to failure on isolation lifts. If you are lifting at high rep weights the answer is going to be somewhat dependent on you and how frequently you are training the muscle groups. Going to failure on bicep curls once or twice a week probably won't impede your over all progress.

    But as a general rule, if you are able to progressively increase your max lift, volume and/or time under tension you are making injury free gains. So why would you go back to a lifting style that overall made you feel sluggish and negatively impacted your desire to train? Seems like you might be trying to fix something that is not broken. If you are ona good program and feeling good overall, trust the process and evaluate again if you truly begin to stall.

    ^This. Enough said.
  • trojan_bb
    trojan_bb Posts: 699 Member
    I train to failure the majority of my sets. And employ high volume. It just means I eventually end up working with lighter weights as my workout progresses since I'm beat up early on. Lots of sets go beyond failure too (rest paused).

    DC training is all about going well past failure every single set. But with low volume. Actually, most bodybuilding programs employ some sort of failure techniques. Mountain Dog, Dennis James style, etc etc.
  • SoLongAndThanksForAllTheFish
    SoLongAndThanksForAllTheFish Posts: 831 Member
    It depends on what you mean by lifting to failure. Many people mean lifting until you cant complete another rep in semi OK form. But others mean doing reps until you can barely do the last rep. Still others think this means lifting until you fail on one weight, then reducing the weight, and going again, until you can barely do your warmup weight. Which are you talking about?
  • Joehenny
    Joehenny Posts: 1,222 Member
    There are smarter ways to train.

    No thanks Jeff.
  • Jamal_Guildford
    Jamal_Guildford Posts: 214 Member
    thread summary

    You do not need to train to failure to make progress. Training to failure has benefits. If training to failure one should back off periodically to rest CNS. Do periods of both.

    So are you recommending to train to failure a few sets for each work out session? For people who want to bulk, gain muscle and strength. Is training to failure good?
  • Jamal_Guildford
    Jamal_Guildford Posts: 214 Member
    It depends on what you mean by lifting to failure. Many people mean lifting until you cant complete another rep in semi OK form. But others mean doing reps until you can barely do the last rep. Still others think this means lifting until you fail on one weight, then reducing the weight, and going again, until you can barely do your warmup weight. Which are you talking about?

    "Many people mean lifting until you cant complete another rep in semi OK for": In my view, this is the definition of training to failure.
  • raindawg
    raindawg Posts: 348 Member
    As the original poster on this thread my definition was on the last set go till I couldn't get a last rep up. Get it half way or three quarters still giving it my all. If I hit my progression rep I'd keep going till I failed. Then half the time I threw in a bonus set, dropping down a weight and taking that one till failure. As you can imagine I totally hit a wall at the end of week 6 doing that. Since then as long as I hit my progression for the workout I'm happy leaving something in the tank. It's been interesting to hear the different view points.
  • ChampCrucial
    ChampCrucial Posts: 120 Member
    No sir. You can take a muscle group to failure once to really kick it and tell it to grow but you don't have to. You already see the benefits. When you take out that last rep you go more towards strength. To continue to pack on muscle with high reps you have to keep getting stronger as well. Arnold and the majority of successful bodybuilders all can lift heavy as crap, so their is your proof outside of my word. Get strong, build more muscle, get strong, build more muscle, repeat. If your reps are between 10-20 per set then your cool and still gaining muscle more than strength. Lastly, your body is telling you it is not meant to go to failure. You may have found a near perfect periodization for your body.

    Happy gaining my friend

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