Oh Now I Remember Why I don't Like Squats

civilizedworm

At a full four months back into weight training and with six weeks of that performing squats and deadlifts added back into my training splits once again, I now remember why I have such poor leg development because of the Osgood Schlatters in my right knee and to some lesser extant my left knee when I squat from it.

"Osgood-Schlatter Disease is a common cause of knee pain in young children and adolescents who are still growing. In this condition there is pain and swelling below the knee joint on a prominence on the leg bone (tibia) called the tibial tuberosity. There may also be inflammation of the tendon that stretches over the knee cap and attaches to the top of the shin bone. This tendon is known as the patellar tendon."



Source: http://www.hopkinsortho.org/osgood-schlatter_.html

For the more visual, I present to you my hairy knee. (Cringe.)


Of course, that spur may not be Osgood-Schlatters.

"You are also correct in saying that this disease typically and almost exclusively affects people that are going through their adolescent growth spurt. This would not describe you as you are well beyond that stage of development. Because of that, I would venture to guess that you bump is not Osgood Schlatter's disease. Other possibilities include a small cyst or or perhaps an abnormal growth of bone or soft tissue. Any new growth such as this one should never be ignored."

https://www.zocdoc.com/answers/12269/do-adults-get-osgood-schlatters

However that was the last diagnoses I received as an adult was that it was indeed Osgood-Schlatters. I've had this since I was an adolescent too... at least since 12.

That aside, as I was preforming my second work set last night, the tendon felt like it was perilously stretched over the Osgood-Schlatter spur. Now, its not the kind of pain that makes you cry uncle or for your mommy (don't stop for a second to think that I haven't considered it), but just enough discomfort and pain to worry you and to make your reconsider squats for the day or for a lifetime. Also, I should point out that I don't lift too heavy (yet) because I dip below parallel and care tremendously more about my form than being a mensch at the gymnasium. My legs are still quite fatigued and DOMmed as I keyboard this morning even with the lighter sets.

There is really no treatment for it, other than consisting of "decreasing the activity that makes it worse, icing the painful area, use of knee pads, and anti-inflammatory medication." And I don't plan on giving up squats. (Leg presses... I am not a huge fan of and which hurts anyway. I'd rather squat.)

Any one else out there in MFP land deal with this condition?

Lofteren

You can still train your legs, you might even be able to squat if you change your form. If you assume a wider stance and sit back further so that you can maintain shins that are perpendicular to the floor you will decrease the amount of force applied by the patellar tendon and the severity of the angle produced in the knee as a whole which would make it less painful to squat. A good way to learn to squat like this is to do box squats but put the box a little bit too far behind you so that you really have to reach back to get to it and then stand by flexing your glutes and hamstrings and driving your hips forward rather than trying to straighten at the knee.

civilizedworm

If you assume a wider stance and sit back further so that you can maintain shins that are perpendicular to the floor you will decrease the amount of force applied by the patellar tendon and the severity of the angle produced in the knee as a whole which would make it less painful to squat.

I'm pretty sure I am doing this... back is squared and tight and a legs are bit wider than shoulder stance.

A good way to learn to squat like this is to do box squats but put the box a little bit too far behind you so that you really have to reach back to get to it and then stand by flexing your glutes and hamstrings and driving your hips forward rather than trying to straighten at the knee.

I don't know, not a big fan of box squats... feels like I am not getting enough of a rep. But, I'll give it a try again.

Perhaps its time to go back to the skunkworks.

Thanks for your suggestions/help!

sjaplo

I too was diagnosed with Osgood Schlaters when I was in grade 10 - back in the 70s! The treatment at that time was to do nothing, in both senses - no gym, no running, no soccer, no skiing for a full year. snzzzzzzzzzzzz! I have the same bony protrusions below my knees.

I basically decided to ignore it. Yes I understand you have pain, but once the growth of bone stops, so too does the effect of the syndrome as the bones solidify. I think you need to look at your form.

I'm 52 - I run, cycle, do yoga and started lifting this year. - Perhaps you are trying to lift too heavy a weight? Maybe dial back and work on form?

cheers

SezxyStef

If you assume a wider stance and sit back further so that you can maintain shins that are perpendicular to the floor you will decrease the amount of force applied by the patellar tendon and the severity of the angle produced in the knee as a whole which would make it less painful to squat.

I'm pretty sure I am doing this... back is squared and tight and a legs are bit wider than shoulder stance.

A good way to learn to squat like this is to do box squats but put the box a little bit too far behind you so that you really have to reach back to get to it and then stand by flexing your glutes and hamstrings and driving your hips forward rather than trying to straighten at the knee.

I don't know, not a big fan of box squats... feels like I am not getting enough of a rep. But, I'll give it a try again.

Perhaps its time to go back to the skunkworks.

Thanks for your suggestions/help!

my son has the same and was diagnosed in middle school...he has to squat a lot for his job (welder)...he hasn't complained yet...give him time...the only time he "cries" out is when he knocks it...

As for the box squats just don't "sit" on the box...use it as a guide...just basically letting your butt "rub" the box as you go down...

civilizedworm

I'm 52 - I run, cycle, do yoga and started lifting this year. - Perhaps you are trying to lift too heavy a weight? Maybe dial back and work on form?

I squat a paucity of weight, so I doubt it. Likewise I ignore it. Well, try to anyway. Just curious if any one else out there had a similar experience with pain while doing it so I would know I was normal.

civilizedworm

my son has the same and was diagnosed in middle school...he has to squat a lot for his job (welder)...he hasn't complained yet...give him time...the only time he "cries" out is when he knocks it...asically letting your butt "rub" the box as you go down...

Let's hope not when he reaches my tender age of 43 and counting.

As for the box squats just don't "sit" on the box...use it as a guide...just basically letting your butt "rub" the box as you go down...

Yes, but with the box, touching it briefly with your butt, still stops your squat from going from below parallel. Just seems like a cheat to me.

icrushit

I don't suppose bodyweight squats would be more friendly..? Don't know much about the condition you mentioned, just trying to throw another option out there

civilizedworm

You know what... I just realized that what might be affecting me now is that I've begun to run outside on pavement again. I only do five miles of cardio a week though. I am running on pavement because I am trying to condition myself for an 8K run this fall. I usually run treadmill.

Could be a factor?

sjaplo

I'm 52 - I run, cycle, do yoga and started lifting this year. - Perhaps you are trying to lift too heavy a weight? Maybe dial back and work on form?

I squat a paucity of weight, so I doubt it. Likewise I ignore it. Well, try to anyway. Just curious if any one else out there had a similar experience with pain while doing it so I would know I was normal.

I will say I used to have pain - especially if I bumped one of the protrusions. But I can honestly say I don't remember when that stopped - possibly in my 30s? so you've got that to look forward to

ETA - I was typing when you posted your age........

civilizedworm

I don't suppose bodyweight squats would be more friendly..? Don't know much about the condition you mentioned, just trying to throw another option out there

I bodyweight squat as a warmup and stretch and in-between sets. Here's my routine:

1. Back Squats
2. Hack Squats (every other week)
3. Goblet Front Squats
4. Dumbbell Lunges
5. Dumbbell Calf Raises
6. Core Giant Set

sjaplo

You know what... I just realized that what might be affecting me now is that I've begun to run outside on pavement again. I only do five miles of cardio a week though. I am running on pavement because I am trying to condition myself for an 8K run this fall. I usually run treadmill.

Could be a factor?

Definitely - while the two actions seem the same, I find my form is different on the t-mill, but I have adapted over the years. In fact, I now find that if my knees hurt - 20 minutes on the t-mill cures them. Something to do with natural lubrication I shouldn't wonder.

Perhaps your shoes are good enough fpr the t-mill, but not outside running?

civilizedworm

I will say I used to have pain - especially if I bumped one of the protrusions. But I can honestly say I don't remember when that stopped - possibly in my 30s? so you've got that to look forward to

I'm 43. lol

And pain from bumping? I know that pain. I got that from skateboarding if my shins are bumped and likewise with the spur below my knee.

Veil5577

Nice knee.

civilizedworm

Perhaps your shoes are good enough fpr the t-mill, but not outside running?

Just bought new running shoes two weeks ago and now have done two 5 mile runs with them and I am still struggling to get the lace tightness correct. This is the first week the knee became a jerk.

Friday is my next scheduled run, I'll don the old ones and compare notes next week Wednesday which is the start of my training week.

civilizedworm

Nice knee.

Thanks. I have a tendon to think my leg wouldn't be capped without it. But I don't know, it could just be a tibial detail that I am bent at musing about, but I'll femur to your opinion.

sjaplo

Nice knee.

Thanks. I have a tendon to think my leg wouldn't be capped without it. But I don't know, it could just be a tibial detail that I am bent at musing about, but I'll femur to your opinion.

So what you are saying is this discussion is tibia continued............

SezxyStef

my son has the same and was diagnosed in middle school...he has to squat a lot for his job (welder)...he hasn't complained yet...give him time...the only time he "cries" out is when he knocks it...asically letting your butt "rub" the box as you go down...

Let's hope not when he reaches my tender age of 43 and counting.

As for the box squats just don't "sit" on the box...use it as a guide...just basically letting your butt "rub" the box as you go down...

Yes, but with the box, touching it briefly with your butt, still stops your squat from going from below parallel. Just seems like a cheat to me.

I actually use a "stool" to ensure I get below parallel...my butt "rubs" the edge of it and I know I am below..maybe your box is to high...

ETA: my sons knee looks just like yours and he is an "adult" of sorts...I was told that once he had it...he would always have it...

icrushit

I don't suppose bodyweight squats would be more friendly..? Don't know much about the condition you mentioned, just trying to throw another option out there

I bodyweight squat as a warmup and stretch and in-between sets. Here's my routine:

1. Back Squats
2. Hack Squats (every other week)
3. Goblet Front Squats
4. Dumbbell Lunges
5. Dumbbell Calf Raises
6. Core Giant Set

Yeah, reason I mentioned it, is I've just been readign a lot of the Convict Conditioning bodyweight programme, and really like how its laid out, ie going from the simplest form to the most complex form in 10 steps. I used to squat when I lifted weights a long time ago, but this time when I add some resistance training again, I am strongly leaning towards a bodyweight programme, especially seeing the benefits of it. All that said, not sure if the bodyweight versions would make any difference, or as you said, it could be something else that's set it off. Just musing out loud

usmcmp

Invest in these if you haven't. Serious life saver.

FrenchMob

Yeah I have those spurs also and was diagnosed around 12 years old with O.S.. I'm almost 43 now also.

3laine75

You know what... I just realized that what might be affecting me now is that I've begun to run outside on pavement again. I only do five miles of cardio a week though. I am running on pavement because I am trying to condition myself for an 8K run this fall. I usually run treadmill.

Could be a factor?

Not an expert but, I had pain in my knee when I started squatting - it got better, started running (on pavement too) - it got worse. Give up squatting or give up running? - too easy!!

I've had no pain since giving up the running (that's a good year now, at least)

Lofteren

my son has the same and was diagnosed in middle school...he has to squat a lot for his job (welder)...he hasn't complained yet...give him time...the only time he "cries" out is when he knocks it...asically letting your butt "rub" the box as you go down...

Let's hope not when he reaches my tender age of 43 and counting.

As for the box squats just don't "sit" on the box...use it as a guide...just basically letting your butt "rub" the box as you go down...

Yes, but with the box, touching it briefly with your butt, still stops your squat from going from below parallel. Just seems like a cheat to me.

No one said you had to squat off of a high box... just use a box that is low enough for the depth you want to reach. I don't understand how this would be an issue at all. I do box squats well below parallel all the time.

suremeansyes

As for the box squats just don't "sit" on the box...use it as a guide...just basically letting your butt "rub" the box as you go down...

Yes, but with the box, touching it briefly with your butt, still stops your squat from going from below parallel. Just seems like a cheat to me.

No one said you had to squat off of a high box... just use a box that is low enough for the depth you want to reach. I don't understand how this would be an issue at all. I do box squats well below parallel all the time.

I was going to say the same. Lol, you're using the wrong box if you aren't breaking parallel doing box squats. I did them this morning and broke parallel every single rep. I was becoming too quad dominant on my squats and I use a box now to make sure I am hitting that backside as well (in more ways than one I guess). Because, you know, butts.

Lofteren

my son has the same and was diagnosed in middle school...he has to squat a lot for his job (welder)...he hasn't complained yet...give him time...the only time he "cries" out is when he knocks it...asically letting your butt "rub" the box as you go down...

Let's hope not when he reaches my tender age of 43 and counting.

As for the box squats just don't "sit" on the box...use it as a guide...just basically letting your butt "rub" the box as you go down...

Yes, but with the box, touching it briefly with your butt, still stops your squat from going from below parallel. Just seems like a cheat to me.

Negative. That would defeat the purpose of him doing a box squat because you wouldn't be able to deload at the bottom and would therefore assume the same posture that is necessary to maintain your balance when squatting without a box. When you box squat you can actually achieve an extended ankle in the hole which means that there is far less rom for the knee to travel through. That's why I recommended box squats in the first place. Watch some Louie Simmons Box Squat videos on youtube if you don't understand what I mean.

civilizedworm

my son has the same and was diagnosed in middle school...he has to squat a lot for his job (welder)...he hasn't complained yet...give him time...the only time he "cries" out is when he knocks it...asically letting your butt "rub" the box as you go down...

Let's hope not when he reaches my tender age of 43 and counting.

As for the box squats just don't "sit" on the box...use it as a guide...just basically letting your butt "rub" the box as you go down...

Yes, but with the box, touching it briefly with your butt, still stops your squat from going from below parallel. Just seems like a cheat to me.

No one said you had to squat off of a high box... just use a box that is low enough for the depth you want to reach. I don't understand how this would be an issue at all. I do box squats well below parallel all the time.

Ok. I may have to bring something like that into my gymnasium (it's an Anytime Fitness - limited choices and time right now).

civilizedworm

As for the box squats just don't "sit" on the box...use it as a guide...just basically letting your butt "rub" the box as you go down...

Yes, but with the box, touching it briefly with your butt, still stops your squat from going from below parallel. Just seems like a cheat to me.

No one said you had to squat off of a high box... just use a box that is low enough for the depth you want to reach. I don't understand how this would be an issue at all. I do box squats well below parallel all the time.

I was going to say the same. Lol, you're using the wrong box if you aren't breaking parallel doing box squats. I did them this morning and broke parallel every single rep. I was becoming too quad dominant on my squats and I use a box now to make sure I am hitting that backside as well (in more ways than one I guess). Because, you know, butts.

My Anytime Fitness doesn't doesn't have an appropriate box. We have a high box, I mean a really high box if I want to use that. But for now, this is the only gymnasium wise.

civilizedworm

Invest in these if you haven't. Serious life saver.

I'll look into these. Thanks!

civilizedworm

You know what... I just realized that what might be affecting me now is that I've begun to run outside on pavement again. I only do five miles of cardio a week though. I am running on pavement because I am trying to condition myself for an 8K run this fall. I usually run treadmill.

Could be a factor?

Not an expert but, I had pain in my knee when I started squatting - it got better, started running (on pavement too) - it got worse. Give up squatting or give up running? - too easy!!

I've had no pain since giving up the running (that's a good year now, at least)

I may have too.

Why is this reminiscent of the workout equivalent of a Sophie's Choice? lol

civilizedworm

my son has the same and was diagnosed in middle school...he has to squat a lot for his job (welder)...he hasn't complained yet...give him time...the only time he "cries" out is when he knocks it...asically letting your butt "rub" the box as you go down...

Let's hope not when he reaches my tender age of 43 and counting.

As for the box squats just don't "sit" on the box...use it as a guide...just basically letting your butt "rub" the box as you go down...

Yes, but with the box, touching it briefly with your butt, still stops your squat from going from below parallel. Just seems like a cheat to me.

Negative. That would defeat the purpose of him doing a box squat because you wouldn't be able to deload at the bottom and would therefore assume the same posture that is necessary to maintain your balance when squatting without a box. When you box squat you can actually achieve an extended ankle in the hole which means that there is far less rom for the knee to travel through. That's why I recommended box squats in the first place. Watch some Louie Simmons Box Squat videos on youtube if you don't understand what I mean.

I'll check into Louie Simmons and his methodology on box squats. Thanks again for the suggestion/advice.

skippygirlsmom

Invest in these if you haven't. Serious life saver.

I agree, my patella tendon loves me for buying one for the left knee.