About ready to give up

AlliSteff

I started my 'get in shape journey' last September just to get rid of some flab. My wieght had been stable for years, I just wanted to lose a tad. After a few months of actually getting in shape (and eliminating evening glasses of wine/beer during the week at home), I upped my workout game and really started tracking calories (though one would think if my weight had been stable, and I then started eating less and working out, I would maybe lose a few).

At the beginning I was referencing here but really tracking on another site, too...so the records are spotty at best. In March I met with a trainer at my gym to get a body fat percentage done (I was at 35% when I started) and have a general assessment made regarding my goals and ways to get there.

In late March, my body fat measured in at 30.3%...but no weight lost (at this point aiming for 1200 net per day). Not great, but movement in the right direction. This drove me to really start tracking (and measuring) my caloric intake. I used 2 different TDEE sites (Scooby and IIFYM), and took the lowest point as a goal. This upped my goal to around 1600 per day (based on 20% calorie reduction from Maintenance). The trainer still thought this was a bit low to me, but I did follow this for a few weeks. When the scale didn't move, I followed her advice and bumped up to 1700 then 1800 (truly the average of the two sites). The scale didn't move.

By late May my body fat % had dropped to 26.2%, and still not a pound lost. I kept my caloric goal at 1800 and started adding in heavy lifting (Stronglifts).

I have noticed my body change...but still, no weight lost. At all. WHen I see a drop, the next day it is back up to 'normal'. I can only assume my body fat has dropped even further by now and will be getting that re-tested soon.

I weigh almost exactly the same as when I didn't do anything (watch what I ate or exercised), as wehn I ate 1400 calories a day, as when I ate 1800 calories per day....it is MADDENING.

I DO have other health issues- Type 1 diabetes (which means even before I started weighing my food, I was really really good at eyeballing servings since my insulin doses depend on figuring out what I am ingesting) and Lupus, and have read anecdotal evidence that the higher your bloodsugar runs, the harder it is to shed weight...but I am in very good control (any insulin dependent diabetic will usually still have sugars running a tad higher than normal) and my doctor says that probably isn't true.....

So a few weeks ago, I moved my goal back to 1700...and nothing

So two weeks ago, the week of my sister's wedding, I logged (except the night of the rehearsal dinner, day of wedding, and day after wedding)...but kind of lived it up with family that came into town. I assumed that I might see a small weight increase...but nope. Still just holding steady.

Surely, I still have some days where I go over, and some where I stay well under...I just give up. I do not know what to do anymore.

Workouts are typically as follows

Monday: 1 hour kickboxing, this includes some pushups, etc
Tuesday: 1 hour of TRX, Kettlebell work, and Medicine ball work
Wednesday: Usually a heaving lifting day
Thursday: 45 minute kickboxing
Friday: Usually heavy lifting day
Saturday: Usually off, unless I missed a day during the week- then I go to Spin class
Sunday: Usually heavy lifting followed by 45 minute spin class.

I also live in NY without a car, and walk about .75 miles each way for work, plus walk pretty much everywhere else (gym, grocery store, etc)

I do wear a HRM, I do own and use a foodscale (any concerns about 1 cup, etc- please know that if the serving is 1 cup and it also notes in in grams on the label, often when I scan the barcode only the cup quantity shows- so I weigh in grams and convert to cups). I do drink more than 8 glasses of water per day (other than black coffee, it is all I drink on a regular basis)

And yes, there are 'not great' days- mostly when I am traveling for work, but I have really been trying to keep it in control- those days usually involve me waking up at 3:30 AM for an early flight and getting home at 8 PM...so a very long day.

I just do not know what to do anymore

CRody44

You are obsessing about weight, not overall health. Obviously, if your body fat is going down, you are getting healthy. It’s the fat that is going to kill you, not the muscle.

ElkeKNJ

ok, I am sure you already thought about this, but are you using the same scales everytime? Maybe that is just broken.
And would your goal not better be the outlook of your body, in stead of the weight on the scale?
Your body is changing, so that is a good thing, no?

TeelHarris

You know, it seems like you've done everything possible to get that scale to budge. I'm no fitness expert, but with all of the activity you're logging, it seems like you may need even MORE calories than the 1800. Also, do you look at grams of sugar or carbs in your nutrition breakdown? Calories in/out works, but if there is too much fat or too many empty calories, that can affect weight loss. I know with diabetes and insulin issues that other hormones in the body can be affected. Have you had a thyroid panel done recently?
I would check in with your physician and let him/her know what is going on. Can a diabetic be insulin resistant?

Good luck on your journey...and try not to give up. As frustrating as it may be, you'll be more frustrated undoing all of your hard work.

kwaz29

How are your clothes fitting? Have you taken progress pics or measurements?

Your body fat has gone down a lot-if your appearance is improving, which I imagine it is with those drops in your BF %, why does it matter what the scale says?

No one is going to know your scale weight by looking at you!

AlliSteff

Nah, I like to walk around with my scale weight displayed for everyone to see. Kidding! Kidding! But seriously, it is not like I don't have 10-15 lbs to lose!

Clothes are fitting better, old jeans that didn't fit do fit now....but I have hit a stalling point where I am not getting smaller. And I don't think I can get much smaller without some weight loss. Not talking a ton- around 10 lbs to put me around 130 lb and muscular for my 5'-3" frame. My arms, while I can see muscle, are definitely still on the bigger side and that is what is really kind of depressing to me. Everyone proclaims heavy lifting is the answer! And while yes, I have seen some small changes- I am over 5 weeks in, and am not seeing a huge body change.

And yes, I use my same digital kitchen scale for food and same bathroom scale for me.

Type 2 diabetics often are insulin resistant (the pills that are often taken help to reduce that resistance), but Type 1 diabetics usually are not....the amount of insulin that I take on a daily basis would definitely fall into the category of 'not insulin resistant'- someone who is resistant can often take upwards of 150-200 units per day. I usually end up around 35 units per day.

My current macro breakdown is 40% carb (about 170 g), 35% protein (about 145 g), 25% fat (about 40g)...and I am very close most of the time.

AlliSteff

Wow

I just sent a 30 day log to the nutritionist who works at my endocrinologist's office to see if she could spot anything that I was missing.

Her response

"I reviewed the nutrient distribution and totals. Excellent work at tracking and measuring.
If no weight loss has been achieved, I would consider a more drastic Calorie restriction between 1200 - 1500Cal per day, 120 to 140g of carbs per day"

That is borderline starving when working out 5-6 days a week? Right? That would have me netting, at 1200 calories per day, approximately 920 calories per day (on average). At 1500, I would be netting 1220 calories on average per day. I am lifting heavy 3 days a week, doing cardio/HIIT stuff 3-4 days a week.....my jaw literally dropped reading this

budobo

That response is pretty nuts from the nutritionist, but theoretically he or she is an expert, so I can't argue.

The workouts that you do - are they mostly weight lifting? I have been dieting at 1200 net calories (1400-1500 consumed, 200-300 exercised) and I originally lost weight and am now stabilizing at this weight - but I have put on visible muscle.

Exercises that promote muscle growth may inhibit your "weight loss" through muscle development. More cardio type exercises may promote "weight loss" through calorie burn only and not as much muscle growth.

AlliSteff

My original post had my general workout week- mix of cardio (mostly kickboxing/spin) mixed with weights (Stronglifts 3x per week plus one day of HIIT/circuit type training)

tibby531

ew, yeah, don't do that. try a different "specialist's" opinion.

McCluskey1128

If your weight is staying the same, but your body fat is going down then the only explanation is that you're maintaining muscle while losing fat.

This is my goal! Who cares what the scale says!!! You're doing an awesome job. Start taking measurements and pics for progress. Water retention, hormones, digestion, etc all plays a role in weight. It's bogus.

Just keep up the good work.

AlliSteff

If your weight is staying the same, but your body fat is going down then the only explanation is that you're maintaining muscle while losing fat.

This is my goal! Who cares what the scale says!!! You're doing an awesome job. Start taking measurements and pics for progress. Water retention, hormones, digestion, etc all plays a role in weight. It's bogus.

Just keep up the good work.

Yeah- I just noticed a nice difference in early June...but since then, not much. I just do not know what else to do! Adjust macros?

JoRocka

She didn't mention anything about eating back calories? or that was supposed to be your NET?

1500 I can see- 1200 is pushing it.

I mean my goal right now for gradual loss is hitting 1500- but I eat back a portion of my workout calories- so I'm aiming for 1800-1900 total- net well over 1000 still.

no way you should be under 1000 net. Just waking up and doing dishes and functioning requires more than that.

I would fuss less about the scale and appreciate what you're doing with your body and watch lifting numbers change. Unless you can be more objective about the scale- just stay off it for the time being. Keep tracking- keep lifting- keep logging- but slide the scale away for at least a month or two. don't be hopeful about losing- just shift focus- that should help. The last 10 pounds is usually the hardest and most stubborn.

AlliSteff

Hahaha, they were the ONLY 10 lbs!

I lately have been 'aiming' for 1700 per day total (TDEE)...so some days I am at 1650, some at 1800...but averaging to about 1700 per day for the week.

On a brighter note, I was able to deadlift more than my bodyweight this Sunday, and I am closing in on my bodyweight with squats (15 lbs away)- though I am stalling on those Overhead Presses

kwatson28

I'm in the same boat. I've been working out and eating better. Tracking the things I do, and I have not lost a SINGLE pound. It's the most frustrating thing there is. I am 5'3" and 170. I'm not supposed to weigh that much, but I am way more muscular than others my size.

I'm not sure what else to do. I feel your pain.

AlliSteff

I'm in the same boat. I've been working out and eating better. Tracking the things I do, and I have not lost a SINGLE pound. It's the most frustrating thing there is. I am 5'3" and 170. I'm not supposed to weigh that much, but I am way more muscular than others my size.

I'm not sure what else to do. I feel your pain.

Maybe it has to do with being 5'-3"

I had one magical day when I woke up at 140.8....but I've been back in the 141.5-142.5 world ever since.

Eleanorjanethinner

I'm with the person saying 'are you sure you actually need a lower number on the scale'? You've been doing an amazing job of changing your body by getting a lot more muscular. You must look so much more toned and healthy (and be much healthier) so well done you!

You look completely healthy and gorgeous in your profile pic. You're not model-skinny but we all know that's an unhealthy and unsustainable look for most people.

Enjoy your progress so far and keep up the good work of being strong and fit!

JoRocka

Hahaha, they were the ONLY 10 lbs!

I lately have been 'aiming' for 1700 per day total (TDEE)...so some days I am at 1650, some at 1800...but averaging to about 1700 per day for the week.

On a brighter note, I was able to deadlift more than my bodyweight this Sunday, and I am closing in on my bodyweight with squats (15 lbs away)- though I am stalling on those Overhead Presses

I know!!! Girl I hear you.

I'm finally closing in on my Pre- Bulk weight (Tipped around 180 for bulk weight) finally almost back down to where I was- that was in April- I thought I was going to drop weight MUCH faster. But it's ALWAYS those last pounds!

1700 TDEE sounds about right. I mean you have two options.
keep going, see what happens.
change something, then keep going and see what happens.

I tend to be very reserved with timing and changes- I usually have 3-4 weeks of data before I'm willing to make a change- sometimes you just never know if it's a bad day- an off day- a salty day- or you had a bad weekend. So you give it the best chance of really having a good trend line by waiting it out for 3-4 weeks- which sucks- means a slow process is even slower, but the biggest two reasons people fail at this
1.) they bite off more than they can chew
2.) they never EVER give it enough time.

I mean- at worst- say you keep going- nothing happens- then you haven't "given up"you're just maintaining- and now you have learned- what maintance looks like- and that you can do it- and maybe you're okay with how you are RIGHT NOW.

Or after another 4 weeks- you lose another pound or two- then you know- it's a slow small deficit. Easy peazy lemon squeezy.

Giving up isn't worth the hassle when if you just put in more time- you could figure out where you stand- or if you need to make adjustments.

Don't get so frustrated you toss your hands up- that is NOT the way this works- for anyone- all of us play trial and error with this stuff. I promise you.

waltcote

My weight has remained pretty constant over the last few months but my clothes are fitting looser at the waist so I am assuming I am also losing fat though I haven't measured. Sounds like you are losing fat and gaining muscle. Just another unprofessional opinion that's all. :bigsmile:

traceywoody

If your weight is staying the same, but your body fat is going down then the only explanation is that you're maintaining muscle while losing fat.

This is my goal! Who cares what the scale says!!! You're doing an awesome job. Start taking measurements and pics for progress. Water retention, hormones, digestion, etc all plays a role in weight. It's bogus.

Just keep up the good work.

This. And....Never give up!

MissHolidayGolightly

Workouts are typically as follows

Monday: 1 hour kickboxing, this includes some pushups, etc
Tuesday: 1 hour of TRX, Kettlebell work, and Medicine ball work
Wednesday: Usually a heaving lifting day
Thursday: 45 minute kickboxing
Friday: Usually heavy lifting day
Saturday: Usually off, unless I missed a day during the week- then I go to Spin class
Sunday: Usually heavy lifting followed by 45 minute spin class.

I also live in NY without a car, and walk about .75 miles each way for work, plus walk pretty much everywhere else (gym, grocery store, etc)

I do wear a HRM, I do own and use a foodscale (any concerns about 1 cup, etc- please know that if the serving is 1 cup and it also notes in in grams on the label, often when I scan the barcode only the cup quantity shows- so I weigh in grams and convert to cups). I do drink more than 8 glasses of water per day (other than black coffee, it is all I drink on a regular basis)

And yes, there are 'not great' days- mostly when I am traveling for work, but I have really been trying to keep it in control- those days usually involve me waking up at 3:30 AM for an early flight and getting home at 8 PM...so a very long day.

I just do not know what to do anymore

The only thing I can think of that hasn't yet been noted is rest. Are you getting enough sleep and rest? Your workout routine seems quite strenuous with heavy lifting, HIIT, and hard cardio six days a week. Mix that with traveling and subsequently working long hours, your could just be exhausted. Recovery is very important for health and seeing results.

AlliSteff

The rest thing probably pulls the most weight. Maybe I can remove a workout day now and again and take a break

PaulaKro

I'm not a nutritionist, but your food diary looks really nicely balanced according to what nutritionists have taught me.

Are your fats a little low? I've heard different levels and that we need them to absorb vitamins. But I know it's different for everyone. My body likes fats & hates starches but my husband is the opposite. Do you add any to cook with? I use olive oil ("lite" to avoid flavor), nuts, avocados, etc.

Like you, I've also lost most my excess weight and when I seriously started working out last December, the loss stalled. It was really surprising, you'd think exercise would help lose - but that's your point, isn't it.

Anyway, I'm losing again now. Here are some things that affect me. Not necessarily all good things.

- I cut back on calories to under 1000. Please note, I had bariatric surgery last year and am doing this under doctor supervision. I'm very strict and pack in all my protein, vegetables, water and vitamins to make every calorie count. Carbs are kept on the low side (but I need those too) and I try to avoid "empty calories" that don't have nutritional value, like candy and alcohol.

- I've been working out less. I wish I worked out 5-6 days/wk. But I've been having trouble with my mojo lately and only doing 2-3 light days a week. :grumble: I don't know if it helps me lose, but if did, it's not on purpose. I'd rather find a different way to do it. Using them tells my muscles to stay strong because they're needed. I want the weight loss to come from fat, not muscle.

- Every once in awhile, I not-on-purpose eat too many carbs, :explode: for me that's crackers or breads (not sweets) then it takes a couple days to lose the resulting cravings, and I fight hard for it. One day every blue moon I can recover from. But saying "just one more day..." or "hey I need this to lose weight" will take me back to where I started. :noway: That scares me, and in this case, fear is my inspiration.

- And how fast the food progresses through my digestive system matters. The extra-carb days can help with constipation. Also, sugar-free gum has sorbitol in it which can be a diuretic. (Hope that's not TMI, but hey, it makes a difference.)

- And drinking a lot of water seems to make a difference too.

You look great, eat great, work out great and deserve the very best.
Good luck!
Paula

squiggysmama

You've gone from 35% to 26%body fat and you're complaining? It's just a number on the scale. Your health has to be better, and with a 10% drop in body fat, you have to look better too. What else do you want?

AlliSteff

You've gone from 35% to 26%body fat and you're complaining? It's just a number on the scale. Your health has to be better, and with a 10% drop in body fat, you have to look better too. What else do you want?

Haha thanks. I just still look 'big'...or at least bigger than I was hoping to be by this point (in no way am I saying that I am really big. Just bigger than it would like to be). I am really happy with the fat loss and I know I look better, but I can definitely get trimmer to an extent. I mean, I am talking like and inch or 2 on thighs, inch or 2 on waist, etc. not a ton, but enough to be getting frustrated with any lack of progress as of late. Yes the increased muscle is helping, but I think only with some actual weight loss will those measurements go down.

moautry

Why do you not consider the change in body fat percentage to be weight loss? You have lost lots of fat weight! And judging from your workout routine, you have added quite a bit of muscle weight. You are LEANER! You have replaced fat with calorie-consuming muscles. Isn't that what we want ultimately? Why can't you see that you have made lots of progress with your routine, and it doesn't need to be changed? If you don't like big muscles, stop lifting heavy weights.

AlliSteff

Wow

I just sent a 30 day log to the nutritionist who works at my endocrinologist's office to see if she could spot anything that I was missing.

Her response

"I reviewed the nutrient distribution and totals. Excellent work at tracking and measuring.
If no weight loss has been achieved, I would consider a more drastic Calorie restriction between 1200 - 1500Cal per day, 120 to 140g of carbs per day"

That is borderline starving when working out 5-6 days a week? Right? That would have me netting, at 1200 calories per day, approximately 920 calories per day (on average). At 1500, I would be netting 1220 calories on average per day. I am lifting heavy 3 days a week, doing cardio/HIIT stuff 3-4 days a week.....my jaw literally dropped reading this

Forget about the nutritionist.

Your work-out routine is impressive.

Can you work out in the morning, before eating breakfast?

Working out on an empty stomach is best (water excluded) and the psychological discipline of it might change your hunger patterns. You can probably loosen up on your calorie restriction as a result.

Maybe get up earlier and go to bed earlier? Any way to can do it, a three week trial should be very interesting for you.

I used to work out in the morning and loved it, but most of the classes that I like are scheduled in the early evenings (anywhere between 6:30 PM and 8 PM). I can adjust my lifting during the week for sure, and I do workout in the morning on weekends...but I really dig my kickboxing and TRX classes, which are only at night. There are also good AM classes, but they start too late (6:45 AM) for me to get to work on time.

HerbertNenenger

what do you do when you're not at the gym? are you sedentary, and these 45-1 hour sessions are all the exercise you get? People that stay active all day don't really need the gym sessions. Put on the pedometer and get in 15000-20000 steps a day for a couple of weeks and see what happens.

AlliSteff

Why do you not consider the change in body fat percentage to be weight loss? You have lost lots of fat weight! And judging from your workout routine, you have added quite a bit of muscle weight. You are LEANER! You have replaced fat with calorie-consuming muscles. Isn't that what we want ultimately? Why can't you see that you have made lots of progress with your routine, and it doesn't need to be changed? If you don't like big muscles, stop lifting heavy weights.

Definitely leaner and I am very happy with the emergance of muscle...I am just looking to further slim down a bit and I, at this point, son't see that happening without losing a bit of weight

AlliSteff

what do you do when you're not at the gym? are you sedentary, and these 45-1 hour sessions are all the exercise you get? People that stay active all day don't really need the gym sessions. Put on the pedometer and get in 15000-20000 steps a day for a couple of weeks and see what happens.

Sit at a desk mostly, but living in NYC, I walk everywhere (no car!). I walk about 5,000 steps in my commute to and from work. That is per a phone app, so all the up and down at work I do not track. My 'normal' days on my phone land me around 6,000 steps per day plus all the office walking and gym time.

I wish I had more time to walk during the day!

deansdad101

I started my 'get in shape journey' last September just to get rid of some flab. My wieght had been stable for years, I just wanted to lose a tad. After a few months of actually getting in shape (and eliminating evening glasses of wine/beer during the week at home), I upped my workout game and really started tracking calories (though one would think if my weight had been stable, and I then started eating less and working out, I would maybe lose a few).

(snipped)

I weigh almost exactly the same as when I didn't do anything (watch what I ate or exercised), as wehn I ate 1400 calories a day, as when I ate 1800 calories per day....it is MADDENING.

I DO have other health issues- Type 1 diabetes (which means even before I started weighing my food, I was really really good at eyeballing servings since my insulin doses depend on figuring out what I am ingesting) and Lupus, and have read anecdotal evidence that the higher your bloodsugar runs, the harder it is to shed weight...but I am in very good control (any insulin dependent diabetic will usually still have sugars running a tad higher than normal) and my doctor says that probably isn't true.....

So a few weeks ago, I moved my goal back to 1700...and nothing

(snipped)

I do wear a HRM, I do own and use a foodscale (any concerns about 1 cup, etc- please know that if the serving is 1 cup and it also notes in in grams on the label, often when I scan the barcode only the cup quantity shows- so I weigh in grams and convert to cups). I do drink more than 8 glasses of water per day (other than black coffee, it is all I drink on a regular basis)

And yes, there are 'not great' days- mostly when I am traveling for work, but I have really been trying to keep it in control- those days usually involve me waking up at 3:30 AM for an early flight and getting home at 8 PM...so a very long day.

I just do not know what to do anymore

Alli;

You've received just about every single pearl of "conventional wisdom" the low cal / low fat / exercise lemmings have in their arsenal - not the least of which the "nutritionist" so dutifully parroted. (Not her/his fault, necessarily, as that is likely the result of the "training" they received but it IS their fault for not having questioned the results of their recommendations and asking "why?"

Is it possible that the paradigm (low cal, low fat, exercise) is simply WRONG?

Possible that the fact that there were NO studies that proved (even close to) conclusively that it made sense and produced the desired results?

Possible that for every study you can show that exercise is a necessary component of LONG TERM weight loss and maintenance, I can show you 10 that show that it's not? (Not saying exercise isn't necessary, it IS, but for reasons other than weight loss/maintenance.)

Is it possible that your "doc" just plain doesn't know what s/he's talking about (or that you misinterpreted what s/he meant) when s/he tells you that body insulin levels (not injected or ingested) don't have "much to do..." with creation of fat and/or muscle - or the required levels of injected insulin?

Possible that it really IS all about diet and the proper balance of carbs, cals, fats, and proteins?

Possible that "insulin resistance" is at the root of weight control and not exercise or cal intake?

As a T1D (which is a completely different scenario than T2) there is no "cure" (yet) but recent studies have demonstrated that with proper diet (irrespective of exercise) it IS possible to reduce (but not eliminate) the need for injected insulin.

My advice would be (especially since you are T1D) do NOTHING, YET - as far as your current diet/exercise regimens are concerned (ie ignore just about all the "pearls" above).....

BUT, spend some time educating yourself about WHY many current researchers, doctors, and forward thinking, well respected, leaders in the field believe the paradigm IS simply wrong (not the "....it's the fat that's killing you..." pablum spouted by the lemmings), and you might want to consider a major change.

I haven't looked at your diet details but from the general tenor of the discussion, it's apparent that what you are currently doing (based on what you "believe" and have been told by the "experts"), simply isn't producing the results you were promised (or were led to believe it would).

If it's any consolation, you're not alone - there is a plethora of "evidence" that demonstrates that it doesn't work.

Rather than obsessing about how many "reps" you do, exactly how many cals you eat, or any of the hundred other useless "common knowledge" suggestions you've received - spend some time researching the available literature and THEN ask your docs (and the nutritionist) if THEY are aware of it and ask them to explain why what you've learned doesn't make sense and might not just be a better path for you to follow.

Ask them to "prove" to you where what you've learned is not valid - and more importantly, ask them to show you the "science" that proves that their recommendations are "right" and your new-found knowledge is "wrong" .

Here's a start:
http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/how-did-we-come-to-believe-saturated-fat-and-cholesterol-are-bad-for-us

Yes, it's a "blog" - but he's also an MD and very highly respected in the field. Poke around the entire site and you'll find a wealth of information that, unlike much of that your current "experts" have professed, actually IS based on solid science.

If an open mind demands that you dig a little deeper I'd suggest spending what might be the best 10 bucks you've ever spent on this book first (and no, I don't have any financial interest or a "referral" link)
"Why We Get Fat and What To Do About It" - Gary Taubes (kindle book, or hard print, amazon)

Search for "Gary Taubes" (without the quotes) on YouTube and you'll find a bunch of excellent videos of presentations he's given to medical professionals around the world.

Best of luck