About ready to give up
Replies
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Honestly... If I were in your shoes I wouldn't be complaining. Seeing a fat loss is a loss... even if your weight stays the same. I would definately not lower your calories... just keep doing what you're doing. I didn't start seeing much in the way of body recomposition until I was lifting about 2 months. I think you said you've only been at it 5 weeks. Good luck!0
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I work out at least 5 times a week. 3 days weight training and 2 days cardio. I usually stay around 1300 calories a day except for a cheat night or two over the weekend. I am older than you (also was type 2 diabetic). I am not starving, nor am I weak or feel deprived. I have been doing this for almost a year and have never felt better...I can still maintain my workouts. I can do pushups, burpees, and assisted pullups now, which I could not do with the 45 extra pounds on me. I do not lift as heavy as I used to. All in all, I can relate to wanting the scale to move down. Since I do not eat a ton of calories, I do try to get a lot of protein in. I try and use my calories wisely and not on junk food. Good luck!0
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Wow
I just sent a 30 day log to the nutritionist who works at my endocrinologist's office to see if she could spot anything that I was missing.
Her response
[/b]"I reviewed the nutrient distribution and totals. Excellent work at tracking and measuring.
If no weight loss has been achieved, I would consider a more drastic Calorie restriction between 1200 - 1500Cal per day, 120 to 140g of carbs per day"[/b]
That is borderline starving when working out 5-6 days a week? Right? That would have me netting, at 1200 calories per day, approximately 920 calories per day (on average). At 1500, I would be netting 1220 calories on average per day. I am lifting heavy 3 days a week, doing cardio/HIIT stuff 3-4 days a week.....my jaw literally dropped reading this
Whoever said that should be shot out of a cannon and wherever they land.... Who cares.
You could have stopped after your 3 paragraph. So in the spring you were 35% and then lost 5% bf and were still the same weight. Correct? So you lost body fat and gained lean mass (since you were the same weight). Other than magic, I dont know another way to explain it. Unless you stepped on the scale with rolls of quarters in your pockets.
Anyway, so, you have more lean body mass now. Which means more muscle. Which means your body needs more fuel to keep it running. And your response (like your "nutritionist who works at my endocrinologist's office" who should get a job delivering pizza) is to decrease your calories?? :noway:
I would give up too if my friends with credentials kept giving me bad advice and it kept me from achieving my goals.
It sounds like you have MFP A.D.D. It sounds like whatever you were doing to go from 30-35% was working pretty well, but you seemed to have got away from that because you werent seeing what you wanted to see fast enough. :flowerforyou:0 -
Wow
I just sent a 30 day log to the nutritionist who works at my endocrinologist's office to see if she could spot anything that I was missing.
Her response
"I reviewed the nutrient distribution and totals. Excellent work at tracking and measuring.
If no weight loss has been achieved, I would consider a more drastic Calorie restriction between 1200 - 1500Cal per day, 120 to 140g of carbs per day"
That is borderline starving when working out 5-6 days a week? Right? That would have me netting, at 1200 calories per day, approximately 920 calories per day (on average). At 1500, I would be netting 1220 calories on average per day. I am lifting heavy 3 days a week, doing cardio/HIIT stuff 3-4 days a week.....my jaw literally dropped reading this
She likely assumes that you are eating your eating exercise calories back, so the numbers she mentioned would be your net.0 -
Alli;I started my 'get in shape journey' last September just to get rid of some flab. My wieght had been stable for years, I just wanted to lose a tad. After a few months of actually getting in shape (and eliminating evening glasses of wine/beer during the week at home), I upped my workout game and really started tracking calories (though one would think if my weight had been stable, and I then started eating less and working out, I would maybe lose a few).
(snipped)
I weigh almost exactly the same as when I didn't do anything (watch what I ate or exercised), as wehn I ate 1400 calories a day, as when I ate 1800 calories per day....it is MADDENING.
I DO have other health issues- Type 1 diabetes (which means even before I started weighing my food, I was really really good at eyeballing servings since my insulin doses depend on figuring out what I am ingesting) and Lupus, and have read anecdotal evidence that the higher your bloodsugar runs, the harder it is to shed weight...but I am in very good control (any insulin dependent diabetic will usually still have sugars running a tad higher than normal) and my doctor says that probably isn't true.....
So a few weeks ago, I moved my goal back to 1700...and nothing
(snipped)
I do wear a HRM, I do own and use a foodscale (any concerns about 1 cup, etc- please know that if the serving is 1 cup and it also notes in in grams on the label, often when I scan the barcode only the cup quantity shows- so I weigh in grams and convert to cups). I do drink more than 8 glasses of water per day (other than black coffee, it is all I drink on a regular basis)
And yes, there are 'not great' days- mostly when I am traveling for work, but I have really been trying to keep it in control- those days usually involve me waking up at 3:30 AM for an early flight and getting home at 8 PM...so a very long day.
I just do not know what to do anymore
You've received just about every single pearl of "conventional wisdom" the low cal / low fat / exercise lemmings have in their arsenal - not the least of which the "nutritionist" so dutifully parroted. (Not her/his fault, necessarily, as that is likely the result of the "training" they received but it IS their fault for not having questioned the results of their recommendations and asking "why?"
Is it possible that the paradigm (low cal, low fat, exercise) is simply WRONG?
Possible that the fact that there were NO studies that proved (even close to) conclusively that it made sense and produced the desired results?
Possible that for every study you can show that exercise is a necessary component of LONG TERM weight loss and maintenance, I can show you 10 that show that it's not? (Not saying exercise isn't necessary, it IS, but for reasons other than weight loss/maintenance.)
Is it possible that your "doc" just plain doesn't know what s/he's talking about (or that you misinterpreted what s/he meant) when s/he tells you that body insulin levels (not injected or ingested) don't have "much to do..." with creation of fat and/or muscle - or the required levels of injected insulin?
Possible that it really IS all about diet and the proper balance of carbs, cals, fats, and proteins?
Possible that "insulin resistance" is at the root of weight control and not exercise or cal intake?
As a T1D (which is a completely different scenario than T2) there is no "cure" (yet) but recent studies have demonstrated that with proper diet (irrespective of exercise) it IS possible to reduce (but not eliminate) the need for injected insulin.
My advice would be (especially since you are T1D) do NOTHING, YET - as far as your current diet/exercise regimens are concerned (ie ignore just about all the "pearls" above).....
BUT, spend some time educating yourself about WHY many current researchers, doctors, and forward thinking, well respected, leaders in the field believe the paradigm IS simply wrong (not the "....it's the fat that's killing you..." pablum spouted by the lemmings), and you might want to consider a major change.
I haven't looked at your diet details but from the general tenor of the discussion, it's apparent that what you are currently doing (based on what you "believe" and have been told by the "experts"), simply isn't producing the results you were promised (or were led to believe it would).
If it's any consolation, you're not alone - there is a plethora of "evidence" that demonstrates that it doesn't work.
Rather than obsessing about how many "reps" you do, exactly how many cals you eat, or any of the hundred other useless "common knowledge" suggestions you've received - spend some time researching the available literature and THEN ask your docs (and the nutritionist) if THEY are aware of it and ask them to explain why what you've learned doesn't make sense and might not just be a better path for you to follow.
Ask them to "prove" to you where what you've learned is not valid - and more importantly, ask them to show you the "science" that proves that their recommendations are "right" and your new-found knowledge is "wrong" .
Here's a start:
http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/how-did-we-come-to-believe-saturated-fat-and-cholesterol-are-bad-for-us
Yes, it's a "blog" - but he's also an MD and very highly respected in the field. Poke around the entire site and you'll find a wealth of information that, unlike much of that your current "experts" have professed, actually IS based on solid science.
If an open mind demands that you dig a little deeper I'd suggest spending what might be the best 10 bucks you've ever spent on this book first (and no, I don't have any financial interest or a "referral" link)
"Why We Get Fat and What To Do About It" - Gary Taubes (kindle book, or hard print, amazon)
Search for "Gary Taubes" (without the quotes) on YouTube and you'll find a bunch of excellent videos of presentations he's given to medical professionals around the world.
Best of luck
It just got interesting.
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I work out at least 5 times a week. 3 days weight training and 2 days cardio. I usually stay around 1300 calories a day except for a cheat night or two over the weekend. I am older than you (also was type 2 diabetic). I am not starving, nor am I weak or feel deprived. I have been doing this for almost a year and have never felt better...I can still maintain my workouts. I can do pushups, burpees, and assisted pullups now, which I could not do with the 45 extra pounds on me. I do not lift as heavy as I used to. All in all, I can relate to wanting the scale to move down. Since I do not eat a ton of calories, I do try to get a lot of protein in. I try and use my calories wisely and not on junk food. Good luck!
Are you consuming 1300 or netting 1300?
I did respond to the nutritionist and asked her if she meant net calories...she completely ignored that question.0 -
Whoever said that should be shot out of a cannon and wherever they land.... Who cares.
You could have stopped after your 3 paragraph. So in the spring you were 35% and then lost 5% bf and were still the same weight. Correct? So you lost body fat and gained lean mass (since you were the same weight). Other than magic, I dont know another way to explain it. Unless you stepped on the scale with rolls of quarters in your pockets.
Anyway, so, you have more lean body mass now. Which means more muscle. Which means your body needs more fuel to keep it running. And your response (like your "nutritionist who works at my endocrinologist's office" who should get a job delivering pizza) is to decrease your calories?? :noway:
I would give up too if my friends with credentials kept giving me bad advice and it kept me from achieving my goals.
It sounds like you have MFP A.D.D. It sounds like whatever you were doing to go from 30-35% was working pretty well, but you seemed to have got away from that because you werent seeing what you wanted to see fast enough. :flowerforyou:
hahha MFP ADD
The only thing I really adjusted after the body fat loss was to add heavy lifting and remove one cardio day. And since I wasn't burning nearly the calories that I had been by adjusting my schedule to accomodate lifting, I thought adjusting my calories might be prudent. I can certainly up them again and try it out.0 -
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Don't understand the scale obsession. The reason you're losing weight is to look better. If you've lost that much bodyfat you surely look very different to when you began.
Post a picture from the start and from one and you'll see.0 -
I have type 2 diabetes, but because of the sudden onset of my diabetes I was initially misdiagnosed as having type 1. I gained about 30 lbs. in the 3 months I took insulin. My endocrinologist said that weight gain can be a side effect of using insulin. So I wonder if difficulty in losing weight could also be an issue for some diabetics who take insulin. Just a thought.0
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I have type 2 diabetes, but because of the sudden onset of my diabetes I was initially misdiagnosed as having type 1. I gained about 30 lbs. in the 3 months I took insulin. My endocrinologist said that weight gain can be a side effect of using insulin. So I wonder if difficulty in losing weight could also be an issue for some diabetics who take insulin. Just a thought.
Yeah, the 'nutritionist' was talking about taking less insulin...but I don't really take much anyway and I am pretty sure that just encourages diabulimia. I am convinced that taking insulin may be playing a role in this (I've been on insulin for almost 28 years)0 -
Whoever said that should be shot out of a cannon and wherever they land.... Who cares.
You could have stopped after your 3 paragraph. So in the spring you were 35% and then lost 5% bf and were still the same weight. Correct? So you lost body fat and gained lean mass (since you were the same weight). Other than magic, I dont know another way to explain it. Unless you stepped on the scale with rolls of quarters in your pockets.
Anyway, so, you have more lean body mass now. Which means more muscle. Which means your body needs more fuel to keep it running. And your response (like your "nutritionist who works at my endocrinologist's office" who should get a job delivering pizza) is to decrease your calories?? :noway:
I would give up too if my friends with credentials kept giving me bad advice and it kept me from achieving my goals.
It sounds like you have MFP A.D.D. It sounds like whatever you were doing to go from 30-35% was working pretty well, but you seemed to have got away from that because you werent seeing what you wanted to see fast enough. :flowerforyou:
hahha MFP ADD
The only thing I really adjusted after the body fat loss was to add heavy lifting and remove one cardio day. And since I wasn't burning nearly the calories that I had been by adjusting my schedule to accomodate lifting, I thought adjusting my calories might be prudent. I can certainly up them again and try it out.
By virtue of adding more lean mass you are burning more calories at rest. The answer may or may not be in adjusting your calories. By going from 35-30% you might have already had them set properly. Maybe all you needed was a) a little more time or b) an adjustment to your macros.0 -
I have type 2 diabetes, but because of the sudden onset of my diabetes I was initially misdiagnosed as having type 1. I gained about 30 lbs. in the 3 months I took insulin. My endocrinologist said that weight gain can be a side effect of using insulin. So I wonder if difficulty in losing weight could also be an issue for some diabetics who take insulin. Just a thought.
Yeah, the 'nutritionist' was talking about taking less insulin...but I don't really take much anyway and I am pretty sure that just encourages diabulimia. I am convinced that taking insulin may be playing a role in this (I've been on insulin for almost 28 years)
I don't blame you for not listening to the nutritionist ...I wouldn't adjust a medication dose unless a medical doctor told me it was safe to do so. If I were you I would ask my endocrinologist for his/her opinion. If he/she says it is safe to reduce your insulin dose that doesn't exactly constitute diabulima.0 -
Hi Alli,
Having T1D changes a lot of factors in the weightloss equation, and I can only imagine how frustrating that might be
. One thing that you brought up but wasn't really talked about was changing you macro ratios. It definitely wouldn't hurt and it might help to do this.
You say that you want to lose weight (from 142 to 130). I am in a similar situation (5'8" and 157lbs, headed for 145 or so).
The last couple of pounds is the hardest! The formula I have been using is this:
Protein = Goal Weight * 1 = 130 grams
Fat = Goal Weight * 0.4 = 52 grams
Carbs = 1200 (or whatever your desired net is) - (130 * 4) - (52 * 9) = 53 grams of carbs
Eat back 50-100% of your exercise carbs.
I plan my meals without this extra, but use it as buffer if I get hungry!
I would possibly go up to 1300 or 1400 net, but I'm 5'8" and weigh more than you, and my exercise is the same (6 days for at least 1 hour, high intensity (crossfit + other stuff at home). I have enough energy and am not hungry, as long as I am careful to eat nutritiously w/ lots of veggies!
By mostly cutting out bread and eating almost all my carbs as veggies/fruit, I'm not hungry and I've maintained steady weight loss for a month. Previously, I don't think I was eating that many more calories on the average day, but my weekend cheats and high carb ratio kept me in the 165 range for about 2-3 years.
I found that for my purposes, the advice given by weightlifters and bodybuilders for "cutting" body fat helped me a lot! bb.com was a great resource.0 -
When is the last time you have had a week off from exercising? When I take a week off, I tend to drop a little weight. I do have more weight than you to lose.
Also, I am using the macros protein-40%, carbs-30%, fat 30%. I set my calories at 1450 which i achieve most days.0 -
Current macros are 35% carb, 30% fat, 35% protein with a TDEE goal of 1650 (no eating back calories). I hit fairly close on most days (some days I do go over on carbs).
35% protein is 144 grams.....so I think that is about as high as I should go.
As for carbs, the majority come from fruits, veggies, Quest bars (which I really wish had slightly fewer carbs), and some Greek yogurt varieties.0 -
When is the last time you have had a week off from exercising? When I take a week off, I tend to drop a little weight. I do have more weight than you to lose.
Also, I am using the macros protein-40%, carbs-30%, fat 30%. I set my calories at 1450 which i achieve most days.
Not in a while- though 2 weekends ago I just let myself sleep and skip workouts0 -
You look great, but I'd suggest eating more vegetables, especially dark leafy greens and herbs. Double the amount of vegetables you're eating. Take advantage of all the summer produce in season.0
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There is really too much to read here with all the responses. I just want to say - I would kill to lose that amount in BF%!! Yay you! Don't ever give up! You have accomplished so much all ready!! You need to just look at it differently NO ONE BUT YOU cares about the number on the scale. The only thing anyone will see is the awesome fit body you have/will have... look up body recomp and research what it means and what it looks like. Heck there are lots of people right here who can show you pictures of what they look like at say 135 flabby and 135 fit! No scale loss but lower BF and looking smokin! I would much rather be fit!0
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If your weight is staying the same, but your body fat is going down then the only explanation is that you're maintaining muscle while losing fat.
This is my goal! Who cares what the scale says!!! You're doing an awesome job. Start taking measurements and pics for progress. Water retention, hormones, digestion, etc all plays a role in weight. It's bogus.
Just keep up the good work.
This!!
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SGS;I have type 2 diabetes, but because of the sudden onset of my diabetes I was initially misdiagnosed as having type 1. I gained about 30 lbs. in the 3 months I took insulin. My endocrinologist said that weight gain can be a side effect of using insulin. So I wonder if difficulty in losing weight could also be an issue for some diabetics who take insulin. Just a thought.
Yes, weight gain is a "typical" response to using insulin to make up for the body's inability to produce "enough" on its own but it goes much further than that when one asks the question "Why?"
As I'm sure you realize T2 is a *totally* different condition than T1 (although they do share a number of commonalities).
T2's MAY progress to the point of requiring injectable insulin but they also MAY NOT and with diet and weight control MIGHT (in some cases) may reduce or even eliminate the symptoms.
T2's MIGHT later contract T1, BUT it is by no means a "natural" progression from T2 to T1 - indeed only a small subset of those with T1 have (or had), T2.
Probably the most important point to keep in mind is that everyone is different and what "works" for one T2 patient, may or may not work for you (or anyone else). The corollary to that of course is that NOT dealing with the disease by utilizing whatever method keeps it under control is the absolute worst situation for everyone.
It's going to take some work and effort on your part to determine exactly which "method" works for you and that starts with gaining an understanding of exactly what is causing your problem in the first place.
Sadly, one simply cannot rely on "conventional wisdom", advice given on a forum by some locked in to the dogma or their own personal ideology regarding diet, exercise, or any other "belief system" they refuse to challenge.
Please spend some time looking into the "alternative" (in the sense of not being "common wisdom" - not in the sense of roots, berries, and incantations), methods detailed in the links provided above.
Never stop asking the question (of your docs or any other "expert") "WHY?"
And never stop seeking discovery of which method is "right" for YOU.0 -
Maybe I'm missing something...I'm not quite sure what goal you are trying to achieve by "giving up"....please explain.0
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Maybe I'm missing something...I'm not quite sure what goal you are trying to achieve by "giving up"....please explain.
Weight goal...just so frustrating. No, not even weight goal- clothing size, whatever. I am just not looking smaller, and haven't for a while (and the giving up comes from feeling like I am working so hard- measuring food, hitting macros, working out religiously- and not much is changing). Trying to re-kickstart that (whether it shows up in weight or size/inches).0 -
Maybe I'm missing something...I'm not quite sure what goal you are trying to achieve by "giving up"....please explain.
Weight goal...just so frustrating. No, not even weight goal- clothing size, whatever. I am just not looking smaller, and haven't for a while (and the giving up comes from feeling like I am working so hard- measuring food, hitting macros, working out religiously- and not much is changing). Trying to re-kickstart that (whether it shows up in weight or size/inches).0 -
Also- frustrating in that it is always 'if you eat at a deficit, you will lose weight', 'calories in, calories out'. I cannot imagine that netting in the realm of 1350-1400 cals per day is somehow not eating at a deficit0
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Alli:Maybe I'm missing something...I'm not quite sure what goal you are trying to achieve by "giving up"....please explain.
Weight goal...just so frustrating. No, not even weight goal- clothing size, whatever. I am just not looking smaller, and haven't for a while (and the giving up comes from feeling like I am working so hard- measuring food, hitting macros, working out religiously- and not much is changing). Trying to re-kickstart that (whether it shows up in weight or size/inches).
I would suggest (based on my understanding of the latest research referenced above) that "....hitting macros..." is EXACTLY the reason (because the %'s you are currently "hitting" 35%, 30%, 35%, MIGHT BE the WRONG GOALS.
"Might be" because they can be different for everyone but IF they are wrong, that COULD be the reason - the only way to know is to research the reasons WHY they might be wrong, CONSULT with your docs first, and THEN (assuming they consider your input, IF you accept the research), trying.
You've "tried" (diligently and religiously) the common wisdom and it's not working (at least as far as the weight part goes). Whether or not there's a "better way" is your decision but without an understanding of WHY it might just be a better way it's pretty much impossible to make an "informed" decision.0 -
I work out at least 5 times a week. 3 days weight training and 2 days cardio. I usually stay around 1300 calories a day except for a cheat night or two over the weekend. I am older than you (also was type 2 diabetic). I am not starving, nor am I weak or feel deprived. I have been doing this for almost a year and have never felt better...I can still maintain my workouts. I can do pushups, burpees, and assisted pullups now, which I could not do with the 45 extra pounds on me. I do not lift as heavy as I used to. All in all, I can relate to wanting the scale to move down. Since I do not eat a ton of calories, I do try to get a lot of protein in. I try and use my calories wisely and not on junk food. Good luck!
Are you consuming 1300 or netting 1300?
My average net is about 1200. I consume between 1200 (when I am not hungry) to about 1450) This works for me. I do eat when I am hungry though, but find I am satisfied quickly. I do not eat back all of my exercise calories.0 -
First of all, I'd kill for that kind of BF% drop.
Second, have you seen SideSteel's recent blog entry? It made me feel better after a month-long stall (and wouldn't you know--my scale# finally MOVED this morning!!) :happy:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/SideSteel/view/if-you-re-not-losing-682957
Stalls do happen. Don't you give up!0 -
Did you say you eat your TDEE calories? Or do you eat TDEE minus some calories? The reason I ask is if your TDEE is 1700 and you were eating 1400, it would take 12 days to lose one pound, wouldn't it? Did you give it that long before you increased? Also, are you SURE your TDEE is only 1700?0
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Alli;Also- frustrating in that it is always 'if you eat at a deficit, you will lose weight', 'calories in, calories out'. I cannot imagine that netting in the realm of 1350-1400 cals per day is somehow not eating at a deficit
It's NOT that the first law of thermodynamics (cals in / cals out) is WRONG - it isn't (of course - it can't be a "law" and be wrong at the same time by definition).
It's that it is being misused, misunderstood, and the fact that as it's currently being used by the cals out crowd IGNORES consideration of the independent variables (increased exercise increases desire, and need for food, for one).
Take a look at this:
http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/revisit-the-causality-of-obesity0
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