Self-Acceptance or Complacency or Just Whining
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Quality of life? Exercise is agony. Is, torture. Suffer tremendously, so that I can live, and suffer, longer?
I agree with you that exercise could have health benefits and possibly prolong life. It absolutely does not improve depression in my case, for it agitates me and makes me hostile. I am told this is adrenaline.
No health benefit, nor increased lifespan, is worth the intense anguish of chest pain/not being able to breathe due to physical exertion. Not to mention the muscle pains. I have experienced agonizing pain from physical exertion my entire life, from as far back as I can recall (age 3.) LONG before I became a vegan; LONG before I EVER dieted.
My only health.problem is anemia/pernicious anemia due to not financially being able to afford nutritious vegan food or vegan supplements. Other than that, I am the healthiest person I know, and here is proof positive (WARNING: graphic TMI !!!!)-- until November 29, 2012, when one of my enemies gave me poisoned coffee, I had not puked since December 25, 1975, when I got food poisoning. That is less than one month shy of 37 years without ever puking. I don't believe many people can attest to a streak like that. Not the folks I know, anyway.
You keep saying all these words. But none of them useful or applicable to the OP.If you are having chest pains that you describe as anguish during exercise, that is pretty serious; you probably should be seeing a doctor. Chest pains are not the same as soreness from overexertion.
My daughter was a vegan (now she's vegetarian) while she was a college student on a budget, and she was able to get many healthy vegan foods that were affordable. She learned to make inexpensive casseroles with beans and such and joined a farmer's market coooperative so she could get reasonable fresh foods. She didn't live on soda and Pringles. You can get a can of 99% fat free Progresso lentil soup for the same price as a can of Pringles.
I wouldn't consider not puking in 37 years a sign of health, just of a strong digestion.
Definitely. All of this.0 -
Quality of life? Exercise is agony. Is, torture. Suffer tremendously, so that I can live, and suffer, longer?
I agree with you that exercise could have health benefits and possibly prolong life. It absolutely does not improve depression in my case, for it agitates me and makes me hostile. I am told this is adrenaline.
No health benefit, nor increased lifespan, is worth the intense anguish of chest pain/not being able to breathe due to physical exertion. Not to mention the muscle pains. I have experienced agonizing pain from physical exertion my entire life, from as far back as I can recall (age 3.) LONG before I became a vegan; LONG before I EVER dieted.
My only health.problem is anemia/pernicious anemia due to not financially being able to afford nutritious vegan food or vegan supplements. Other than that, I am the healthiest person I know, and here is proof positive (WARNING: graphic TMI !!!!)-- until November 29, 2012, when one of my enemies gave me poisoned coffee, I had not puked since December 25, 1975, when I got food poisoning. That is less than one month shy of 37 years without ever puking. I don't believe many people can attest to a streak like that. Not the folks I know, anyway.
So many LOLs I don't even know where to begin......0 -
Chest pain is not a normal part of exercise. That should be looked into by a doctor. If you have "enemies" who are close enough to you so as to be serving you poisoned coffee..I don't even know where to begin with your issues....0
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I think life is too short to be miserable! You are 55 and maybe it's not your goal to have a bikini ready body. Or maybe it is. Once you figure out what you really want, you can act accordingly.
It sounds like it is more important to you to not be starving all the time.
That is reasonable. So why not be at peace with your current weight and just live your best, healthiest life possible?
In terms of lowering your cholesterol (its role in heart disease is debatable now, btw) exercise is one of the best ways of achieving that. Diet can also help but exercise is KING.....vigorous exercise.
You might consider eating at TDEE (which does not allow you to eat exercise calories, but you get to eat the same amount every day, which is around 1480 for you).
Exercise because it is good for your body and state of mind. Eat for nourishment and on occasion, to celebrate life.
In the end, you probably won't regret being active. But you might regret making yourself miserable by not eating enough.0 -
Sigh. First of all, I think you look fabulous and I commend you for being so active! But I really think you will enjoy your vacation much more if you stop comparing yourself to your sister and just enjoy being you.
Look around the world and you will see that it could be a LOT worse! Life is very short and we should enjoy it as much as we can. As to your diet, your calories do sound pretty low. Are you definitely weighing everything you eat? What happens if you try to gradually increase them? Also if you try to get 30% cals from protein it really does help with satiety.
This ^^^^^^
You are going to ruin your vacation with this competitive thought process. How about just going and enjoying each other's company.0 -
I was doing my daily reading and meditations, and one of them was about control and goal-setting. It was about being so focused on a goal that one felt it had to control one's life and make one control every aspect of one's life, where sometimes "letting go" a bit might actually improve one's outlook and life -- letting go of the grip on the goal and of the control you believe you have over the goal. This probably sounds completely counterintuitive for many people on this site, who may be significantly overweight and really have to take control over their lives and their bodies in order to become healthy. However, from the many supportive and helpful posts I've seen on this current thread, I think it may apply to my own situation -- that I have a goal that might not be realistic or that important (will I keel over in 6 months if I don't get down to 110 lbs.?) and may be impacting meaningful parts of my life. Anyway, thanks to all who have been so wise and supportive and honest.0
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"When it is obvious that the goals cannot be reached, don’t adjust the goals, adjust the action steps." - ConfuciusI was doing my daily reading and meditations, and one of them was about control and goal-setting. It was about being so focused on a goal that one felt it had to control one's life and make one control every aspect of one's life, where sometimes "letting go" a bit might actually improve one's outlook and life -- letting go of the grip on the goal and of the control you believe you have over the goal. This probably sounds completely counterintuitive for many people on this site, who may be significantly overweight and really have to take control over their lives and their bodies in order to become healthy. However, from the many supportive and helpful posts I've seen on this current thread, I think it may apply to my own situation -- that I have a goal that might not be realistic or that important (will I keel over in 6 months if I don't get down to 110 lbs.?) and may be impacting meaningful parts of my life. Anyway, thanks to all who have been so wise and supportive and honest.
Best of luck, OP.
ETA
I should add that if you think a goal is healthy, simply adjust a deadline.0 -
I haven't really set a deadline. It does look like at the rate I'm going it could take a year to lose those last 10 lbs., but I'll still be alive in a year! A few years back, I lost 20 in 6 months, but I was truly overweight then and coming off a period of being inactive due to an injury. I'm much closer to my setpoint now.0
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I hold deeply in my heart the belief that when I got down to 25% body fat, the healthier option for me was to go into the highest maintenance calories I can eat while maintaining a consistent, progressive strength training routine. Again and again I've seen examples where simple consistency pays off with amazing results after a year.
110 might be possible, however it looks like you're being painted into a really unhealthy corner to get there. In your situation, I'd take six months off and see what focusing on strength would get me.
Even more fun than looking better than your sister is to eat a "normal" breakfast while she starves herself on low fat yogurt.0 -
@ rosebette, you look perfectly healthy in your pics, I wouldn't try to loose any more if I were you!.
You may have just hit your natural weight for your muscle mass?.0 -
I hold deeply in my heart the belief that when I got down to 25% body fat, the healthier option for me was to go into the highest maintenance calories I can eat while maintaining a consistent, progressive strength training routine. Again and again I've seen examples where simple consistency pays off with amazing results after a year.
110 might be possible, however it looks like you're being painted into a really unhealthy corner to get there. In your situation, I'd take six months off and see what focusing on strength would get me.
Even more fun than looking better than your sister is to eat a "normal" breakfast while she starves herself on low fat yogurt.
I'm probably still around 30% bodyfat, so I need to do some work in that area. I'm a curvy type. Actually, my "normal" breakfast could be lowfat yogurt and fruit too! But I tend to eat often -- midmorning snack and a mid afternoon snack that is usually a protein and fruit. My sister is a vegetarian but within those restrictions, she eats whatever she wants -- plenty of eggs and cheese which I tend to avoid due to cholesterol issues. The other reason I'm jealous is that except for being vegetarian she eats anything she wants and stays thin; she'll order pasta with some kind of cheese sauce and have dessert, too! All she does is walk her dog. She doesn't even go to the gym. But she never had children, which makes a big difference in a woman's body's tendency to maintain fat reserves.0 -
I mean this in the nicest way possible. Isn't it exhausting to compare yourself to someone else constantly? Why not compare you to yourself only?I hold deeply in my heart the belief that when I got down to 25% body fat, the healthier option for me was to go into the highest maintenance calories I can eat while maintaining a consistent, progressive strength training routine. Again and again I've seen examples where simple consistency pays off with amazing results after a year.
110 might be possible, however it looks like you're being painted into a really unhealthy corner to get there. In your situation, I'd take six months off and see what focusing on strength would get me.
Even more fun than looking better than your sister is to eat a "normal" breakfast while she starves herself on low fat yogurt.
I'm probably still around 30% bodyfat, so I need to do some work in that area. I'm a curvy type. Actually, my "normal" breakfast could be lowfat yogurt and fruit too! But I tend to eat often -- midmorning snack and a mid afternoon snack that is usually a protein and fruit. My sister is a vegetarian but within those restrictions, she eats whatever she wants -- plenty of eggs and cheese which I tend to avoid due to cholesterol issues. The other reason I'm jealous is that except for being vegetarian she eats anything she wants and stays thin; she'll order pasta with some kind of cheese sauce and have dessert, too! All she does is walk her dog. She doesn't even go to the gym. But she never had children, which makes a big difference in a woman's body's tendency to maintain fat reserves.
Look at what your starting point was, look at what you've achieved so far, and ponder where you would like to be in a while. There's only one person in your race and that's you. You can either win or lose, and from where I'm looking it seems like you've already won because you've made a change to your lifestyle. The remaining part is fine-tuning.
You've been blessed with a body that can do lots of things and your body is as unique as the one your sister has. Why do you feel jealousy?0 -
At your age and height I think your current weight is just fine. You look great. Maybe it's time to be happy with where you are and let go of the "ideal weight."0
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Being 5'1 and 120 pounds puts you in a normal weight range for that height, so for the most part I would say don't worry about it too much. You're already at a healthy weight.0
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I should have inserted a comma-- I am aware that exercise increases metabolism. However, from what I see on these forums, the majority of those people on here who exercise are unsuccessful in weight loss, because they are consuming too many calories. Why isn't their recommended caloric intake working? It's set too high, that's why. The "ruin metabolism" refers to long slow dieting-- losing one pound, a half-pound, per week for months and months. I never diet for long, and my metabolism remains fast.
The majority of people who exercise are unsuccessful in their weight loss....??
I'm sorry, what forums are you reading? On my FL alone there is a cumulative loss of thousands of pounds that have been lost and maintained. We are runners, lifters, zumba addicts, swimmers, bikers....
You spew nonsense and uneducated BS.
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Quality of life? Exercise is agony. Is, torture. Suffer tremendously, so that I can live, and suffer, longer?
I agree with you that exercise could have health benefits and possibly prolong life. It absolutely does not improve depression in my case, for it agitates me and makes me hostile. I am told this is adrenaline.
No health benefit, nor increased lifespan, is worth the intense anguish of chest pain/not being able to breathe due to physical exertion. Not to mention the muscle pains. I have experienced agonizing pain from physical exertion my entire life, from as far back as I can recall (age 3.) LONG before I became a vegan; LONG before I EVER dieted.
My only health.problem is anemia/pernicious anemia due to not financially being able to afford nutritious vegan food or vegan supplements. Other than that, I am the healthiest person I know, and here is proof positive (WARNING: graphic TMI !!!!)-- until November 29, 2012, when one of my enemies gave me poisoned coffee, I had not puked since December 25, 1975, when I got food poisoning. That is less than one month shy of 37 years without ever puking. I don't believe many people can attest to a streak like that. Not the folks I know, anyway.
So much no.
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Quality of life? Exercise is agony. Is, torture. Suffer tremendously, so that I can live, and suffer, longer?
I agree with you that exercise could have health benefits and possibly prolong life. It absolutely does not improve depression in my case, for it agitates me and makes me hostile. I am told this is adrenaline.
No health benefit, nor increased lifespan, is worth the intense anguish of chest pain/not being able to breathe due to physical exertion. Not to mention the muscle pains. I have experienced agonizing pain from physical exertion my entire life, from as far back as I can recall (age 3.) LONG before I became a vegan; LONG before I EVER dieted.
My only health.problem is anemia/pernicious anemia due to not financially being able to afford nutritious vegan food or vegan supplements. Other than that, I am the healthiest person I know, and here is proof positive (WARNING: graphic TMI !!!!)-- until November 29, 2012, when one of my enemies gave me poisoned coffee, I had not puked since December 25, 1975, when I got food poisoning. That is less than one month shy of 37 years without ever puking. I don't believe many people can attest to a streak like that. Not the folks I know, anyway.
There's a whole lot of bat**** crazy up in here. ^^^^0 -
I mean this in the nicest way possible. Isn't it exhausting to compare yourself to someone else constantly? Why not compare you to yourself only?I hold deeply in my heart the belief that when I got down to 25% body fat, the healthier option for me was to go into the highest maintenance calories I can eat while maintaining a consistent, progressive strength training routine. Again and again I've seen examples where simple consistency pays off with amazing results after a year.
110 might be possible, however it looks like you're being painted into a really unhealthy corner to get there. In your situation, I'd take six months off and see what focusing on strength would get me.
Even more fun than looking better than your sister is to eat a "normal" breakfast while she starves herself on low fat yogurt.
I'm probably still around 30% bodyfat, so I need to do some work in that area. I'm a curvy type. Actually, my "normal" breakfast could be lowfat yogurt and fruit too! But I tend to eat often -- midmorning snack and a mid afternoon snack that is usually a protein and fruit. My sister is a vegetarian but within those restrictions, she eats whatever she wants -- plenty of eggs and cheese which I tend to avoid due to cholesterol issues. The other reason I'm jealous is that except for being vegetarian she eats anything she wants and stays thin; she'll order pasta with some kind of cheese sauce and have dessert, too! All she does is walk her dog. She doesn't even go to the gym. But she never had children, which makes a big difference in a woman's body's tendency to maintain fat reserves.
Look at what your starting point was, look at what you've achieved so far, and ponder where you would like to be in a while. There's only one person in your race and that's you. You can either win or lose, and from where I'm looking it seems like you've already won because you've made a change to your lifestyle. The remaining part is fine-tuning.
You've been blessed with a body that can do lots of things and your body is as unique as the one your sister has. Why do you feel jealousy?
My Great Aunt was hugely rivalrous with my grandmother until the day she died. We are human. They are sisters. My daughters are forming this path for themselves while we speak.
Based on your picture, I'm having a really, really hard time believing that you are 30% body fat. How are you measuring? 'Cause I'm struggling here.0 -
I have a sister and we are best friends on this earth. I guess I don't understand it.
I mean this in the nicest way possible. Isn't it exhausting to compare yourself to someone else constantly? Why not compare you to yourself only?I hold deeply in my heart the belief that when I got down to 25% body fat, the healthier option for me was to go into the highest maintenance calories I can eat while maintaining a consistent, progressive strength training routine. Again and again I've seen examples where simple consistency pays off with amazing results after a year.
110 might be possible, however it looks like you're being painted into a really unhealthy corner to get there. In your situation, I'd take six months off and see what focusing on strength would get me.
Even more fun than looking better than your sister is to eat a "normal" breakfast while she starves herself on low fat yogurt.
I'm probably still around 30% bodyfat, so I need to do some work in that area. I'm a curvy type. Actually, my "normal" breakfast could be lowfat yogurt and fruit too! But I tend to eat often -- midmorning snack and a mid afternoon snack that is usually a protein and fruit. My sister is a vegetarian but within those restrictions, she eats whatever she wants -- plenty of eggs and cheese which I tend to avoid due to cholesterol issues. The other reason I'm jealous is that except for being vegetarian she eats anything she wants and stays thin; she'll order pasta with some kind of cheese sauce and have dessert, too! All she does is walk her dog. She doesn't even go to the gym. But she never had children, which makes a big difference in a woman's body's tendency to maintain fat reserves.
Look at what your starting point was, look at what you've achieved so far, and ponder where you would like to be in a while. There's only one person in your race and that's you. You can either win or lose, and from where I'm looking it seems like you've already won because you've made a change to your lifestyle. The remaining part is fine-tuning.
You've been blessed with a body that can do lots of things and your body is as unique as the one your sister has. Why do you feel jealousy?
My Great Aunt was hugely rivalrous with my grandmother until the day she died. We are human. They are sisters. My daughters are forming this path for themselves while we speak.0 -
I should have inserted a comma-- I am aware that exercise increases metabolism. However, from what I see on these forums, the majority of those people on here who exercise are unsuccessful in weight loss, because they are consuming too many calories. Why isn't their recommended caloric intake working? It's set too high, that's why. The "ruin metabolism" refers to long slow dieting-- losing one pound, a half-pound, per week for months and months. I never diet for long, and my metabolism remains fast.
The majority of people who exercise are unsuccessful in their weight loss....??
I'm sorry, what forums are you reading? On my FL alone there is a cumulative loss of thousands of pounds that have been lost and maintained. We are runners, lifters, zumba addicts, swimmers, bikers....
You spew nonsense and uneducated BS.
I don't read every thread, and as I do not read the threads about exercise regimes, there are probably many more success stories about people who exercise has helped reach their goal weight, than I was aware of-- that's a good point. Based on the threads I have read, most of the people here using the exercise-more-eat-more weight loss strategy have failed. It must require a very carefully calculated balance of exercise and calories; some folks have it figured out and made it work for them, and others are setting their calories too high and fail. The latter group is more dominant in the threads I click on, because I don't click on threads with titles that include words like "cardio" or "lifting," etc. So I see many more failures than successes.
I am curious about the idea presented by a recent post on this thread stating that pregnancy impacts fat reserves-- I have never been pregnant; does this mean my body chemistry or hormonal balance or metabolism is different from women who have had kids?0 -
head:deskFeel free to ignore me, we'll see who ends up fatter, me the one who has avoided exercise for 61 years, or most of y'all that exercise and ruin your metabolism with long slow dieting.
^^That was my reaction!0 -
I should have inserted a comma-- I am aware that exercise increases metabolism. However, from what I see on these forums, the majority of those people on here who exercise are unsuccessful in weight loss, because they are consuming too many calories. Why isn't their recommended caloric intake working? It's set too high, that's why. The "ruin metabolism" refers to long slow dieting-- losing one pound, a half-pound, per week for months and months. I never diet for long, and my metabolism remains fast.
The majority of people who exercise are unsuccessful in their weight loss....??
I'm sorry, what forums are you reading? On my FL alone there is a cumulative loss of thousands of pounds that have been lost and maintained. We are runners, lifters, zumba addicts, swimmers, bikers....
You spew nonsense and uneducated BS.
I don't read every thread, and as I do not read the threads about exercise regimes, there are probably many more success stories about people who exercise has helped reach their goal weight, than I was aware of-- that's a good point. Based on the threads I have read, most of the people here using the exercise-more-eat-more weight loss strategy have failed. It must require a very carefully calculated balance of exercise and calories; some folks have it figured out and made it work for them, and others are setting their calories too high and fail. The latter group is more dominant in the threads I click on, because I don't click on threads with titles that include words like "cardio" or "lifting," etc. So I see many more failures than successes.
I am curious about the idea presented by a recent post on this thread stating that pregnancy impacts fat reserves-- I have never been pregnant; does this mean my body chemistry or hormonal balance or metabolism is different from women who have had kids?
Lady stop talking.
You do not have a healthy relationship with food or exercise so you need to stop trying to give advice to anyone. Forever.
You're also the worst vegan I've ever seen. With the money you spend on bean dip, pringles, and diet soda, you could create healthy vegan dishes using fresh vegetables, quinoa, and lentils.0 -
head:deskFeel free to ignore me, we'll see who ends up fatter, me the one who has avoided exercise for 61 years, or most of y'all that exercise and ruin your metabolism with long slow dieting.
^^That was my reaction!
I just blocked her.0 -
This content has been removed.
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I should have inserted a comma-- I am aware that exercise increases metabolism. However, from what I see on these forums, the majority of those people on here who exercise are unsuccessful in weight loss, because they are consuming too many calories. Why isn't their recommended caloric intake working? It's set too high, that's why. The "ruin metabolism" refers to long slow dieting-- losing one pound, a half-pound, per week for months and months. I never diet for long, and my metabolism remains fast.
The majority of people who exercise are unsuccessful in their weight loss....??
I'm sorry, what forums are you reading? On my FL alone there is a cumulative loss of thousands of pounds that have been lost and maintained. We are runners, lifters, zumba addicts, swimmers, bikers....
You spew nonsense and uneducated BS.
I don't read every thread, and as I do not read the threads about exercise regimes, there are probably many more success stories about people who exercise has helped reach their goal weight, than I was aware of-- that's a good point. Based on the threads I have read, most of the people here using the exercise-more-eat-more weight loss strategy have failed. It must require a very carefully calculated balance of exercise and calories; some folks have it figured out and made it work for them, and others are setting their calories too high and fail. The latter group is more dominant in the threads I click on, because I don't click on threads with titles that include words like "cardio" or "lifting," etc. So I see many more failures than successes.
I am curious about the idea presented by a recent post on this thread stating that pregnancy impacts fat reserves-- I have never been pregnant; does this mean my body chemistry or hormonal balance or metabolism is different from women who have had kids?
Lady stop talking.
You do not have a healthy relationship with food or exercise so you need to stop trying to give advice to anyone. Forever.
You're also the worst vegan I've ever seen. With the money you spend on bean dip, pringles, and diet soda, you could create healthy vegan dishes using fresh vegetables, quinoa, and lentils.
Her diary reminds me of the Dumb and Dumber scene where Harry tells Lloyd to "just get the essentials."0 -
I am 61 and 5' 3 1/2." My ideal weight is 112.
There is no need to settle for holding on to a few vanity pounds.
The loss of only a few pounds can make an incredible difference on a petite frame! I am talking, a serious, dramatic difference! You may need to see it to believe it-- but if you decide to get rid of the vanity pounds, you will understand exactly what I am talking about.
I do not exercise at all because, frankly, I am unwilling to put myself through that. I just do not like exercise. So I am not in a position to advise you about eating back exercise calories. All I know is that dieting without exercise works excellently for me. Then again, you may be shooting for muscle definition, which is something I do not want for myself. And even tho I am a couple of inches taller than you, it's possible that you look thinner at 120 than I did, because you may carry more muscle. I personally don't want to be model-thin.
But I know I am a "pudgelet" at 120, devoid of a waist, and at 112 slender and with a waist. The difference is striking.
You don't exercise .... you don't eat (averaging under 700 total calories per day for the last month) .... what you do eat is devoid of nutritional value (protein, have you heard of it?) ... and you still don't have the body you want. If anything, your advice is contraindicated by your own lack of progress (not to mention all science).
Agree!! :flowerforyou:0 -
I should have inserted a comma-- I am aware that exercise increases metabolism. However, from what I see on these forums, the majority of those people on here who exercise are unsuccessful in weight loss, because they are consuming too many calories. Why isn't their recommended caloric intake working? It's set too high, that's why. The "ruin metabolism" refers to long slow dieting-- losing one pound, a half-pound, per week for months and months. I never diet for long, and my metabolism remains fast.
Ridiculous. Just ridiculous. Also, your comment about "who ends up fatter" is a nasty, vindictive thing to say. Vamoose!0 -
Try carb cycling, where for like 3 days a good portion of your calories come from healthy carbs like potatoes and other veggies, and then for the next 3 days you cut way back on carbs, then you go back to your normal balance. It appears to me that if your body gets too accustomed to any diet or fitness routine it quits losing fat, and you have to do something different to restart the process.0
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"My Great Aunt was hugely rivalrous with my grandmother until the day she died. We are human. They are sisters. My daughters are forming this path for themselves while we speak.
Based on your picture, I'm having a really, really hard time believing that you are 30% body fat. How are you measuring? 'Cause I'm struggling here."
Thanks for the compliment. When I was evaluated on a periodic basis by the fitness/weight loss program at my workplace, they used this device that I would hold with my thumbs in a certain place. I started out around 37% and got down to 34% by late April early May. 30% is just a guess. I am wearing black which is slimming and a sports bra in the photo, so I'm a bit "strapped down" shall we say? When we talk sibling rivalry, I guess one thing my sister is jealous of is that I do have some cleavage - she jokes, "Boobs? What are those?" when I put on a dress.
I can't say I spend my whole life thinking about her; we're about 2 hours away from each other and she's great with my mom, who is 83.. However, she was the brighter and more successful one in the family (she got full scholarships to college because of her intelligence, she's a published author, etc.) so it's hard not to compare. When I'm just living my own life, these issues don't arise. She's not "*****y" or anything. I also start feeling insecure if things aren't going well for me; I'm teaching a course right now that's out of my field and it's not working, so all kinds of stuff is coming up for me.
No matter how "mature" we are, sometimes all this stuff still emerges.
Anyway today I had a good workout, some fresh yogurt, and fruit, and am enjoying the path this thread has taken with one of the other posters (you all know which one I mean), which is a great source of humor for many of us!0
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