Why Carbs Make Us Fat... ;)

Wetcoaster

There are links to take you to scientific studies you were asking to read.... here

http://rawfoodsos.com/2011/07/31/one-year-later-the-china-study-revisited-and-re-bashed/

musiche

Can you respond to Lyle Mcdonalds criticisms? Or do you just keep harping on the China Study?

Please enlighten me where Lyle is wrong?




PS....

I am enjoying my life....fit and healthy...all blood work is great at 56 years old.

Excuse me while I marinate some steak to bbq tonight.

Lol, enjoy your steak.

So, did you even read the China Study? Cuz you're asking me to read a heck of a lot in that forum, lol. That doesn't seem fair. I'm going to pick out a few random bits:

"Meat, especially red meat, is the richest source of B-complex vitamins. The B vitamins perform a myriad of crucial functions in the body and requirements for these vital nutrients are dramatically increased during periods of stress, illness and physical activity. Unfortunately, the body cannot store a surplus of B-vitamins for times of increased need, so optimal amounts must be consumed on a daily basis."

- Ok this: Meat is not the richest source of B-complex vitamins. It IS the richest source of vitamin B12 specifically. All other B-vitamins are easily obtained from plants and in higher amounts than from meat.

The part on "Carnitine, Taurine" and the rest -- We don't actually need any of those to survive, and the ones that we do, our bodies make themselves. Creatine and carnitine, etc. are liked by bodybuilders because it's a shortcut to for the body so our bodies don't have to 'waste' energy synthesizing them. (For someone trying to lose weight, this is actually a bonus).

"Those who need to boost their iron stores should look to red meat rather than supplements or plant foods." This is absolutely 1000% false. A blatant lie. A plant-based diet provides over double the iron over meat without even paying attention. I can attest to this myself. I spent 32 years eating meat, and always struggled to eat enough iron. I was anemic more than once, medically tested. My iron intake has never been this high, and without effort, no supplements, just food. Check my diary if you like, see for yourself. Surplus iron every day, and that's with a 500-800 calorie deficit.

The part about plant-derived omega-3 fatty acids being inferior -- I've read the exact opposite. Also, it says that vegans have higher Omega-6 and lower Omega-3 (which I disagree with), but if that were the case, it doesn't explain why vegans have higher HDL and lower LDL levels than meat-eaters, which are directly affected by Omega-3. As well as far lower cholesterol levels. And they have lower levels of inflammation as well, which Omega-6 contributes to.

I'm not going to go through the entire thing. There's just a snippet of it though, and that's enough for me to suggest this:

Look to real studies, funded studies, studies done by recognized and accomplished, unbiased scientists. Look for information, not opinions. Some of his 'opinions' are just misinformation, some valid, but that's the best way to misinform people -- include some truth, and some misinformation, and it all just gets confused. The message they take away is exactly what most people want to hear: Meat is good. Make sense, cuz people like meat.

musiche

There are links to take you to scientific studies you were asking to read.... here

http://rawfoodsos.com/2011/07/31/one-year-later-the-china-study-revisited-and-re-bashed/

What ... scientific studies???

This is another person's re-interpretation of the China study data.

It shows examples of falsified peer reviews that have nothing to do with the China Study. It has a ton of excerpts from the China Study, and some evidence of other people's individual experiences (opinions)... Then he references other studies -- so you're second-hand giving me study data that's been removed from a larger study and taken out of context and used as a correlation against another comprehensive study.

I'm gonna quote the guy (the ONE PERSON WHO WROTE THIS, his OPINION): "I’ll add my own unsolicited 2¢ and speculate..."

Ugh... If you're going to debate, let's debate facts, not speculation and opinions...

Three strikes, you're out. I'm not reading anymore silly links you post for me, I'm sorry.

whitebalance

I read the subject line... Paused between bites of my Talenti sea salt caramel gelato pop to say, "because they're freaking delicious, that's why!" ... Then clicked the post, clicked the article, and raised my stick in a toast. Hear, hear. Good thing I'm out of gelato pops.

d0v3r13

so, I just want to ask you, would you rather have heart disease when you're 70 or life threatening lower respiratory disease when you're 15?

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs310/en/

the fact of the matter is that we are all going to die. at some point, something will come for us. be it an infectious disease, heart disease, an accident, old age, we all die. the fact that the western civilization tends to die more from heart disease than the rest of the world, has a lot more to do with the fact that we live much longer, have more money to spend on food, and are alive between the ages of 15 and 70.

here's a direct quote out of the study i posted for your review, which is taken from the World Health Organization:

Q: What are the main differences between rich and poor countries with respect to causes of death?
In high-income countries, 7 in every 10 deaths are among people aged 70 years and older. People predominantly die of chronic diseases: cardiovascular diseases, cancers, dementia, chronic obstructive lung disease or diabetes. Lower respiratory infections remain the only leading infectious cause of death. Only 1 in every 100 deaths is among children under 15 years.

In low-income countries, nearly 4 in every 10 deaths are among children under 15 years, and only 2 in every 10 deaths are among people aged 70 years and older. People predominantly die of infectious diseases: lower respiratory infections, HIV/AIDS, diarrhoeal diseases, malaria and tuberculosis collectively account for almost one third of all deaths in these countries. Complications of childbirth due to prematurity, and birth asphyxia and birth trauma are among the leading causes of death, claiming the lives of many newborns and infants."

So, when i look at the numbers, i'll take heart disease at 70 over infectious disease at 15, thank you very much.

also, you tend to forget that the majority of the world also lives in poverty and therefor does not have the resources to eat meat like western culture.

furthermore, the majority of asian culture vilifies obesity, to the point that you will lose your employment if you don't pass yearly physicals. this is not rumor, this is reality. they live in constant fear of being fat, because it is a culture that is extremely aggressive towards it.

my goal is to be healthy, and i will do so as i see fit, even if it means eating meat. but you cannot tell me that i am doing it wrong, when you are comparing it to other, usually poverty stricken, parts of the world. i'd rather not live in any asian country. i'd rather not live in africa. there is pretty much no other place in the world that strictly does not eat meat.

also, being able to attack your meat does not strictly qualify you as a meat eater. there are plenty of carnivores that are scavengers. and my bare hands are perfectly suited to killing, cleaning and cooking a chicken and picking the meat off the bones to eat.

whitebalance

Wrong. Eating more calories than you burn makes a person fat.

Also, if you consider an article from Brad Pilon to be credible, that's just comical. Provide a scientific peer-reviewed study next time.

And it's obvious you didn't read the article at all. Or it totally went over your head.

Seriously... I thought the article was kinda funny...

It was. This is MFP. :flowerforyou:

Achrya

ITT: The reason people dislike Vegetarians.

Iron_Feline

Ah, the china study coolaid.

Shropshire1959

Carbs are NOT 'awesome' ( <-- ****e, over and misused word of the century BTW) .. it's JUST a food group people - get a grip :-p

joepage612

yeah because the countries that have people who live on rice are so fat. ?

Cranquistador

NO

wheird

Meat is delicious. That is all I need to know to want to eat it.

Wetcoaster

There are links to take you to scientific studies you were asking to read.... here

http://rawfoodsos.com/2011/07/31/one-year-later-the-china-study-revisited-and-re-bashed/

What ... scientific studies???

This is another person's re-interpretation of the China study data.

It shows examples of falsified peer reviews that have nothing to do with the China Study. It has a ton of excerpts from the China Study, and some evidence of other people's individual experiences (opinions)... Then he references other studies -- so you're second-hand giving me study data that's been removed from a larger study and taken out of context and used as a correlation against another comprehensive study.

I'm gonna quote the guy (the ONE PERSON WHO WROTE THIS, his OPINION): "I’ll add my own unsolicited 2¢ and speculate..."

Ugh... If you're going to debate, let's debate facts, not speculation and opinions...

Three strikes, you're out. I'm not reading anymore silly links you post for me, I'm sorry.

I guess you can't read. There are links to scientific studies in that. Too much for you I guess. Typical to cherry pick what you wish to read.

You never did refute what Lye Mcdonald wrote.

You are too dense to even argue with.

Wetcoaster

ITT: The reason people dislike Vegetarians.

Yup

Iron_Feline

yeah because the countries that have people who live on rice are so fat. ?

And another person who didn't read the link. :laugh:

salembambi

Realistically, human beings as a species are not carnivorous, and we're not predators. Think of a predator (carnivore)... Cat, wolf, praying mantis, falcon... What do they all have in common? Weaponry, built right in. They are born to kill. Teeth, claws, speed, stealth... We're born to be herbivores, and adventitious or adaptive carnivores when the opportunity or need arises. Therefore -- we're meant to eat carbohydrates predominantly -- fruits, vegetables, etc..

"Carbohydrates" are not the issue, it's the quality of food we eat.

Respectfully, naaah. Eyes facing front= predator. Opposable thumb= (tool-using) predator. Omnivorous palate and digestive system= predator. Big-*kitten*-brain(built-in weapon)= predator. Canine teeth, yeah. We're not tree-hugging dirt-munching druids by intention. Only when forced by scarcity, or more recently by extreme specialization when some lucky few are not forced to be involved with food production.

What's the issue again? Oh yeah, carbs, but Quality! Laugh. Like its protein, fat, fiber and carbohydrate content - totally agree!

Respectfully, I disagree with every point you tried to make.

Sloths have eyes on the front of their faces, lol. Quite the predator there....

Opposable thumbs -- yes, we use tools, that doesn't make us predators. That makes us ingenious and adaptive. What I said previously, is that BY NATURE'S DESIGN, we are not predators. Naturally, we are not. Not yet anyway. Evolution doesn't happen as quickly as we've changed, and our physiology is still geared to that of predominant herbivores.

Omnivorous palate? That's a subjective thing, and I disagree, considering the MAJORITY of the global population are a plant-based culture, excluding western civilization. Our digestive system is more suited to a plant-based diet as well, scientifically and healthfully speaking.

Canine teeth -- no, we don't have a K9 set of teeth. Think of a dog's teeth, now think of ours. Think of a cow's teeth, not think of ours. We have 4 teeth that resemble a dog's (and some people don't), and the rest (the majority) are like a cow - molars for grinding, and flat front teeth to take bites out of our food -- not tackle a cow and rip it's jugular out. Our teeth are not suitable for hunting.

And a big brain is not a sign of a predator either.

And we're not lucky to be so far removed from our food either. It's a tragedy really. Most of us have no idea what we're eating, what's in it, what it does to us... Food industry wants to make money, not healthy people. Ignorance is bliss. That being said, if everyone had to kill the cow to eat the hamburger -- we'd have a lot more plant matter in our diet. A lot.

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSS to the above post

arewethereyet

Topic: Why Carbs Make Us Fat... < ---points at winky face

Mr_Knight

Carbs are NOT 'awesome' ( <-- ****e, over and misused word of the century BTW) .. it's JUST a food group people - get a grip :-p

Settle down, Beavis.

Mr_Knight

Physically, no, we are not predators at all.

Yes, we are, and our most dangerous physical weapon is our minds.

Apex predators? No, not at all, unless you put a gun in someone's hand, sure, maybe.

See above. We are the very definition of "apex predator", at least on this planet.

And it's not just about guns - it's our ability to organize and coordinate in large groups. Our species out-predators any and all other species on the planet, and we did that long before guns were invented.

QueenBishOTUniverse

Guh, I haven't had enough coffee for this yet. Humans do not fore or hind-gut ferment, humans do not have the bacterial load necessary to digest cellulose. Humans are no more herbivores than we are carnivores, there's this middle ground called an omnivore. Any entry level functional morphology course will straiten out the physiological differences between carnivores herbivores and omnivores for you, they're pretty damn obvious, and it's pretty damn obvious which group humans have evolved in to.

As omnivores, yes, we can successfully exist on plant based diets when necessary or when we choose to. As omnivores, yes, we can successfully exist on entirely animal based diets as well. There is likely some level of regional evolutionary influence that will affect at the individual level whether someone tends to do better on more heavily plant based or more heavily animal based, so while some people will be negatively affected by heavy protein and fat loads, others will thrive on such a diet, but we're a LONG way off from having any form of accurate research or data in that regard.

PikaKnight

Topic: Why Carbs Make Us Fat... < ---points at winky face

Yeah. HINT HINT HINT.

How this got to become an ethical food debate is hilarious.

Unknown

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Achrya

Physically, no, we are not predators at all.

Yes, we are, and our most dangerous physical weapon is our minds.

Apex predators? No, not at all, unless you put a gun in someone's hand, sure, maybe.

See above. We are the very definition of "apex predator", at least on this planet.

And it's not just about guns - it's our ability to organize and coordinate in large groups. Our species out-predators any and all other species on the planet, and we did that long before guns were invented.

Yeah. Didn't humans used to run down, trap, herd and otherwise use their brains/intelligence to kill animals long before guns were a thing?

QueenBishOTUniverse

Physically, no, we are not predators at all.

Yes, we are, and our most dangerous physical weapon is our minds.

Apex predators? No, not at all, unless you put a gun in someone's hand, sure, maybe.

See above. We are the very definition of "apex predator", at least on this planet.

And it's not just about guns - it's our ability to organize and coordinate in large groups. Our species out-predators any and all other species on the planet, and we did that long before guns were invented.

Yeah. Didn't humans used to run down, trap, herd and otherwise use their brains/intelligence to kill animals long before guns were a thing?

I'd say so, yes:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091127140706.htm

QueenBishOTUniverse

Also, bragging on a friend here:

http://news.msn.com/us/wyoming-cave-with-fossil-secrets-to-be-excavated#tscptmf

Jules and I taught functional morphology together at UCLA and she hosted my bachlorette party. I'm fairly certain she would take issue with people classifying humans as herbivores, but she's a little too busy right now for me to ask.

sabified

bump to read later