Quantity vs. quality of calories consumed

lemurcat12

Just for the record:

A Big Mac meal with a strawberry shake has 1575 calories.

Who is recommending this as a good way to lose weight on MFP?

For that amount of calories I can have:

Protein shake for breakfast with US protein added almond milk and 2T flax seed meal

Processed protein powder plus processed almond milk plus (I assume) processed flax seed. Nothing wrong with that--I had a protein shake this morning (with milk) before my run and then blueberries, broccoli, and cauliflower plus some yogurt (flavored, since it was all I had on hand, but quite likely from Europe!) after, and I too think that protein powder is one of those processed items that help me meet my nutrition goals, but it's why this focus on processed=bad is so misplaced.

As for the calories and the rest, looks good. Do you really think that makes you unique and that the rest of us are eating twinkies or McDonalds and just not eating anything else? My view is that if people start figuring out how to meet their calories within their own preferences--especially if they do think in terms of meeting nutrition needs, which I see recommended commonly here--they naturally start gravitating toward lots of whole foods, vegetables, and so on, because that's a much easier way to decrease calories and be satisfied. You don't need to insist that people cut out "processed" stuff, especially since there seems to be no rational agreed-upon definition of processed and, again, processed stuff may help meet nutritional needs.

But if you feel super good thinking that everyone else here (and all Americans) eat fast food 24/7, go for it.

No_Finish_Line

IYet you ever see a breakfast buffet in Europe? Its insane! Fresh croissants, nine types of house cured meats, homemade cheese, egg poaching machines, thick churned homemade butter, etc. and nobody is fat!

Can you spot the glaring difference between the two? Their food is natural! It came from an animal. Or they grew it in a fields without hormones. Or pesticides. Or other nasty stuff that enables big agriculture to build a bigger tomato, a fatter chicken, and a cow that requires less food.

while i would agree that represents a better quality diet, and probably promotes better general health, i wouldn't assume it has much to do directly with them not being fat.

oinkerjnn

Just for the record:

A Big Mac meal with a strawberry shake has 1575 calories.

Who is recommending this as a good way to lose weight on MFP?

For that amount of calories I can have:

Protein shake for breakfast with US protein added almond milk and 2T flax seed meal

Processed protein powder plus processed almond milk plus (I assume) processed flax seed. Nothing wrong with that--I had a protein shake this morning (with milk) before my run and then blueberries, broccoli, and cauliflower plus some yogurt (flavored, since it was all I had on hand, but quite likely from Europe!) after, and I too think that protein powder is one of those processed items that help me meet my nutrition goals, but it's why this focus on processed=bad is so misplaced.

As for the calories and the rest, looks good. Do you really think that makes you unique and that the rest of us are eating twinkies or McDonalds and just not eating anything else? My view is that if people start figuring out how to meet their calories within their own preferences--especially if they do think in terms of meeting nutrition needs, which I see recommended commonly here--they naturally start gravitating toward lots of whole foods, vegetables, and so on, because that's a much easier way to decrease calories and be satisfied. You don't need to insist that people cut out "processed" stuff, especially since there seems to be no rational agreed-upon definition of processed and, again, processed stuff may help meet nutritional needs.

But if you feel super good thinking that everyone else here (and all Americans) eat fast food 24/7, go for it.

I'm sure my protein powder is processed too, as is almond milk and flax seed meal, but all are healthy and all natural. But all natural protein powder and a pop tart are both processed foods by definition, yet one is far more processed, and one uses natural ingredients.

I don't think for a long shot most of the people on here are eating mostly junk, I just think some are missing the point. There is a difference between weight loss and eating for overall health and nutritional value. It is possible to eat with a Focus on both, but If that's not your goal or its not important to you, then by all means eat a Big Mac if it fits your caloric requirements.

I'll get off my soap box now.

Edit- and Michael pollan is the man.

lemurcat12

I don't think for a long shot most of the people on here are eating mostly junk, I just think some are missing the point. There is a difference between weight loss and eating for overall health and nutritional value. It is possible to eat with a Focus on both, but If that's not your goal or its not important to you, then by all means eat a Big Mac if it fits your caloric requirements.

I don't see how people (perhaps you need to be more specific) are "missing the point." Just because someone says that it is calories that matter for weight loss doesn't mean that person doesn't care about anything but calories or eat a healthy diet. I think you are jumping to conclusions.

I probably jumped to similar conclusions when I first started, but that was before I saw 18,000 posts along the lines of "I am eating 1200 calories but not losing weight, is it because I'm eating too much fruit?" or "I have been below my calories but just ate a gummi bear, am I going to gain weight?" Lots of people have goofy ideas about how weight loss works, created to a large extent by the diet industry you mention, and a lot of that is this rather magical idea that you have to eat the precise right mix of foods and if you do something as mundane as calories don't matter. That's why you get all the posts on calories, not because anyone is arguing in favor of the ridiculous straw man that it makes no difference at all, for any purpose, whether you decide to eat only twinkies and Big Macs. It's because (a) if trying to get to the bottom of why someone isn't losing, calories are primary, not the misplaced advice that you often see (oh, you need to cut out bread and diet soda!); and (b) it's quite possible to eat an overall healthy diet that meets nutritional considerations and yet still eat, well, bread and diet soda or even (on occasion) Big Macs.

Also, please tell me which of my prior posts suggests that I don't care about nutrition or want to eat only Big Macs, I'm curious.

lemonsnowdrop

Just for the record:

A Big Mac meal with a strawberry shake has 1575 calories.

Who is recommending this as a good way to lose weight on MFP?

For that amount of calories I can have:

Protein shake for breakfast with US protein added almond milk and 2T flax seed meal

Processed protein powder plus processed almond milk plus (I assume) processed flax seed. Nothing wrong with that--I had a protein shake this morning (with milk) before my run and then blueberries, broccoli, and cauliflower plus some yogurt (flavored, since it was all I had on hand, but quite likely from Europe!) after, and I too think that protein powder is one of those processed items that help me meet my nutrition goals, but it's why this focus on processed=bad is so misplaced.

As for the calories and the rest, looks good. Do you really think that makes you unique and that the rest of us are eating twinkies or McDonalds and just not eating anything else? My view is that if people start figuring out how to meet their calories within their own preferences--especially if they do think in terms of meeting nutrition needs, which I see recommended commonly here--they naturally start gravitating toward lots of whole foods, vegetables, and so on, because that's a much easier way to decrease calories and be satisfied. You don't need to insist that people cut out "processed" stuff, especially since there seems to be no rational agreed-upon definition of processed and, again, processed stuff may help meet nutritional needs.

But if you feel super good thinking that everyone else here (and all Americans) eat fast food 24/7, go for it.

I'm sure my protein powder is processed too, as is almond milk and flax seed meal, but all are healthy and all natural. But all natural protein powder and a pop tart are both processed foods by definition, yet one is far more processed, and one uses natural ingredients.

I don't think for a long shot most of the people on here are eating mostly junk, I just think some are missing the point. There is a difference between weight loss and eating for overall health and nutritional value. It is possible to eat with a Focus on both, but If that's not your goal or its not important to you, then by all means eat a Big Mac if it fits your caloric requirements.

I'll get off my soap box now.

Edit- and Michael pollan is the man.

What about a Big Mac makes them so unhealthy? Maybe I just don't feel like wasting my life wondering if something is healthy enough to consume. I'd rather watch my calorie intake and eat things I enjoy than sacrifice foods I like because someone thinks they're bad for me.

PikaKnight

Just for the record:

A Big Mac meal with a strawberry shake has 1575 calories.

Who is recommending this as a good way to lose weight on MFP?

For that amount of calories I can have:

Protein shake for breakfast with US protein added almond milk and 2T flax seed meal

Processed protein powder plus processed almond milk plus (I assume) processed flax seed. Nothing wrong with that--I had a protein shake this morning (with milk) before my run and then blueberries, broccoli, and cauliflower plus some yogurt (flavored, since it was all I had on hand, but quite likely from Europe!) after, and I too think that protein powder is one of those processed items that help me meet my nutrition goals, but it's why this focus on processed=bad is so misplaced.

As for the calories and the rest, looks good. Do you really think that makes you unique and that the rest of us are eating twinkies or McDonalds and just not eating anything else? My view is that if people start figuring out how to meet their calories within their own preferences--especially if they do think in terms of meeting nutrition needs, which I see recommended commonly here--they naturally start gravitating toward lots of whole foods, vegetables, and so on, because that's a much easier way to decrease calories and be satisfied. You don't need to insist that people cut out "processed" stuff, especially since there seems to be no rational agreed-upon definition of processed and, again, processed stuff may help meet nutritional needs.

But if you feel super good thinking that everyone else here (and all Americans) eat fast food 24/7, go for it.

I'm sure my protein powder is processed too, as is almond milk and flax seed meal, but all are healthy and all natural. But all natural protein powder and a pop tart are both processed foods by definition, yet one is far more processed, and one uses natural ingredients.

I don't think for a long shot most of the people on here are eating mostly junk, I just think some are missing the point. There is a difference between weight loss and eating for overall health and nutritional value. It is possible to eat with a Focus on both, but If that's not your goal or its not important to you, then by all means eat a Big Mac if it fits your caloric requirements.

I'll get off my soap box now.

Edit- and Michael pollan is the man.

What about a Big Mac makes them so unhealthy? Maybe I just don't feel like eating my life wondering if something is healthy enough to consume. I'd rather watch my calorie intake and eat things I enjoy than sacrifice foods I like because someone thinks they're bad for me.

^Agreed.

I also dislike how often the idea of the amount of calories seems to define whether something is "healthy" or not.

CyberEd312

Agree with both the above..... I truly have to shake my head at the whole good food vs. bad food crap.... Are some foods more nutritious than others?? Well of course they are but no food is evil, I ate eggs, bacon, and scratch made waffles for breakfast, oven baked turkey breast sandwich with melted sharp cheddar cheese served with grilled asparagus for lunch and just finished off a pizza from our favorite pizza joint and a pint of Jamocha Almond Fudge Ice cream... None of what I ate today do I consider Bad food, it all fit within my caloric intake for the day, it was all delicious, and I will pick back up in the morning with my Usual Saturday morning big bowl of cereal (Reese's Puff mixed with Krave double chocolate cereal). To each their own but I once was trapped in my house at a weight very few ever get too and make it back from. For all rights, had I not changed my ways I would probably be dead now, so I refuse to demonize any food if I can make it fit within my daily goals....... Best of Luck........

jackiemonx

i think the original point is that american (and australian btw) generic supermarket foods are way more processed than european equivalent. example, chicken breast, standard chicken breast in oz or usa is twice as large as in europe, why? cos it pumped full of hormones and water when theres no need for it to be.
breads and fruit n veg etc is grown to last way longer on the shelves and so is 'processed' more in order to do so
its not so much about the big macs etc, u get them in every country but the standard foods u buy in supermarkets are way different in quality in the different countries

PikaKnight

i think the original point is that american (and australian btw) generic supermarket foods are way more processed than european equivalent. example, chicken breast, standard chicken breast in oz or usa is twice as large as in europe, why? cos it pumped full of hormones and water when theres no need for it to be.
breads and fruit n veg etc is grown to last way longer on the shelves and so is 'processed' more in order to do so
its not so much about the big macs etc, u get them in every country but the standard foods u buy in supermarkets are way different in quality in the different countries

Americans, compared to other countries, tend to be a lot more sedentary. I think that has way more to do with it than hormones and processed foods.

itseye

Having lived in Europe for 20 years, there are some differences in eating patterns. It is basically 3 square meals a day, with lunch being the largest meal. Dinner is usually a light meal which also helps with sleep. I remember having 1 hour off for lunch and eating the "Plat du jour".

You eat plentiful but not in excess and often it will also consist of a dessert. Now the big difference also is the size of the country. People are more apt to walking and taking public transportation, and certainly there is no eating in one's car.

ajax041813

I don't look at the nutrient density of my food as a factor in my weight loss. I actually gained weight for a couple of months by not being motivated and disciplined all while eating clean, nutrient dense food, just waaaay too much of it. So for weight loss sake, yes calories burned v calories in is a tried and true method of losing weight that has worked for lots of people.

I eat nutrient dense food so my body build my cells with the appropriate parts to make me as happy and well adjusted as possible. Since making this switch I am not as irritable, I can speak up for myself without getting emotional, I heal from injuries much faster. And I just like not putting chemicals, preservatives and fake things in my body. Yes, I realize I am still bombarded by these things when I walk outside, but now I am giving my body a fighting chance to fight the side effects of those toxins.

This is why I am so saddened when I see someone searching for a healthy alternative recipe to an old standard junk food and many replies are, just eat the junk food. No, making it ourselves, with real, whole food is so much better for our bodies, The more we step away from the processed "food" that we are brainwashed to believe is good when it's just laden with sugar, the more we will realize it's ok to step away and be free of the addiction.

This may sound very strange and some people will probably think I'm crazy, yet I really believe in all this and I know it's difficult. To me, that is why its' important to have homemade versions of our favorite junk foods to get us through those really stressful times in life without resorting to ordering a pizza. I WANT to fuel my body with real food and know, to the best of my ability and I am learning more everyday, that I am putting good quality nutrients in as fuel for my body to run at optimal capacity.

6ftamazon

I agree with your points, but can we please differentiate between type one and type 2 diabetes. I'm surprisingly annoyed by how many people lately don't understand the difference and tell me my type one diabetes will be cured .

lemurcat12

i think the original point is that american (and australian btw) generic supermarket foods are way more processed than european equivalent. example, chicken breast, standard chicken breast in oz or usa is twice as large as in europe, why? cos it pumped full of hormones and water when theres no need for it to be.
breads and fruit n veg etc is grown to last way longer on the shelves and so is 'processed' more in order to do so
its not so much about the big macs etc, u get them in every country but the standard foods u buy in supermarkets are way different in quality in the different countries

Americans, compared to other countries, tend to be a lot more sedentary. I think that has way more to do with it than hormones and processed foods.

Yup. Also, I buy my chicken from an organic local farm (personal ethical reasons, not because I think the grocery chicken is bad for me), and the breasts do not seem different in size than I recall. The pork is different--it has more fat, because American factory farmed pork is bred to be leaner, especially compared to heritage breeds. So I seriously doubt supermarket meat is making us fat.

Now a standard size breast is much more than I think of as one serving size (I mostly eat bone in breasts) so if you assume one breast should equal 100 g you might be eating more than you think, but that's not really America's fault.

brower47

I read a thread on here the other day where a European wrote about shopping in an American grocery store. He was appalled at the amount of processed crap we not only eat, we consider normal.

I don't care what someone from another country thinks of the grocery stores of another country.

It also seems like this forum is big on caloric intake vs burn, and not big on quality of those calories.

This forum tends to be big on science. Many stress that while calories in/calories out is what's needed for weight loss, they also stress that a balanced diet is the best for overall health.

I am not trying to bash in any way, and I know speaking in generalities will undoubtedly ruffle some feathers, but I don't agree with calories being the almighty yardstick.

The above bolded makes the bolded below a rather hypocritical stance.

If weight loss is your one and only goal, then strictly speaking, calories in vs. Calories burned is a fine technique. We have all seen the studies where the patient are nothing but twinkles and lost weight. Is anybody else not disgusted by the overall style of food we as Americans eat? No other rich country in the world eats such garbage, and pays top dollar for it too! I've also seen the sixty minutes specials showing the poor family trying to eat fresh vegetables on a budget, and my heart goes out to those people. But for most of us there is no excuse.

Eating whole, natural, nutrient rich foods not only will make you feel better and feel healthier, your calories will go much further too.

Eating any food that meets your caloric needs, your macro needs (as they pertain to your fitness needs) and your micro needs will be as healthy as health can be assured by a diet.

Diabetes, high blood pressure, hypertension, and a myriad of other health issues can and will occur if you eat processed, high fat, high sugar, high sodium, foods over an extended period of time.

The above diseases and metabolic disorders have a variety of factors that contribute to their existence. Blaming processing, fat, sugar, and sodium as the primary contributor is narrow minded.

I love MFP and it has been an integral part of my latest weight loss endeavor, but I also think it is important to pull the curtain back and dig a little deeper. Think of calorie counting as one tool in your tool bag, but not as the only tool you own.

Very few people on MFP care only about the calorie content of food. Most care about their micros and macros too but many recognize that those needs don't have to met by having an unhealthy view of food or by unnecessarily eliminating "garbage" from their diet. I think it's time to pull back the curtain and shine a light on the fact that all food is food (not disgusting garbage or junk) and can be part of a healthy diet with just a little bit of knowledge and planning.

shmerek

I don't have enough calories to waste on high calorie foods that don't fill me up.

jofjltncb6

So many bogus conclusions of causation based on remarkably sketchy correlations.

ftrobbie

Another discussion involving a lot of anecdotal evidence about averages.

The average world adult has one testicle and one mammary gland (to a binary digit)
In the UK the average family has 2.2 children.

Averages are pointless out of context. Statistics, damned statistics and lies. Obesity, diabetes et al is a problem, preaching to the choir on mfp is not going to make one iota of a difference. Go preach to the unconverted if it makes you feel better.

However, my weightloss and non preaching has caused 20 people in surrounding departments at work to try mfp. If half of those have success and half of those with success encourage someone else, in another 6 months that will 100 people that have tried to do something different, a 50 times multiplier of people being accountable for their health (assuming the 50% unsuccessful gave up - too hard, they only kind of wanted it). Go and lead by example, no preaching required.

And I am the worst hypocrite by then preaching here. Good luck with whatever your life goals are.

RabbitLost

There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. - Mark Twain

jackiemonx

i think the original point is that american (and australian btw) generic supermarket foods are way more processed than european equivalent. example, chicken breast, standard chicken breast in oz or usa is twice as large as in europe, why? cos it pumped full of hormones and water when theres no need for it to be.
breads and fruit n veg etc is grown to last way longer on the shelves and so is 'processed' more in order to do so
its not so much about the big macs etc, u get them in every country but the standard foods u buy in supermarkets are way different in quality in the different countries

Americans, compared to other countries, tend to be a lot more sedentary. I think that has way more to do with it than hormones and processed foods.

Yup. Also, I buy my chicken from an organic local farm (personal ethical reasons, not because I think the grocery chicken is bad for me), and the breasts do not seem different in size than I recall. The pork is different--it has more fat, because American factory farmed pork is bred to be leaner, especially compared to heritage breeds. So I seriously doubt supermarket meat is making us fat.

Now a standard size breast is much more than I think of as one serving size (I mostly eat bone in breasts) so if you assume one breast should equal 100 g you might be eating more than you think, but that's not really America's fault.

thats my point tho, supermarkets make the farmers change the way things are normally ie making more lean, making tomatos redder etc so they appeal more to the public. theres a huge difference between supermarket n farm bought produce

yarwell

I agree with your points, but can we please differentiate between type one and type 2 diabetes. I'm surprisingly annoyed by how many people lately don't understand the difference and tell me my type one diabetes will be cured .

It could be, with a transplant. But I take your point.

A rebranding exercise is required I feel.