Quantity vs. quality of calories consumed

_Terrapin_

There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. - Mark Twain

Great quote---> more accurate source

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/b/benjamin_disraeli.html

Twain attributes the quote to Disraeli. You didn't know the conservative from the 19th century provided this quote? Yeah, me either.

lemurcat12

Just for the record:

A Big Mac meal with a strawberry shake has 1575 calories.

Who is recommending this as a good way to lose weight on MFP?

For that amount of calories I can have:

Protein shake for breakfast with US protein added almond milk and 2T flax seed meal

Processed protein powder plus processed almond milk plus (I assume) processed flax seed. Nothing wrong with that--I had a protein shake this morning (with milk) before my run and then blueberries, broccoli, and cauliflower plus some yogurt (flavored, since it was all I had on hand, but quite likely from Europe!) after, and I too think that protein powder is one of those processed items that help me meet my nutrition goals, but it's why this focus on processed=bad is so misplaced.

As for the calories and the rest, looks good. Do you really think that makes you unique and that the rest of us are eating twinkies or McDonalds and just not eating anything else? My view is that if people start figuring out how to meet their calories within their own preferences--especially if they do think in terms of meeting nutrition needs, which I see recommended commonly here--they naturally start gravitating toward lots of whole foods, vegetables, and so on, because that's a much easier way to decrease calories and be satisfied. You don't need to insist that people cut out "processed" stuff, especially since there seems to be no rational agreed-upon definition of processed and, again, processed stuff may help meet nutritional needs.

But if you feel super good thinking that everyone else here (and all Americans) eat fast food 24/7, go for it.

I'm sure my protein powder is processed too, as is almond milk and flax seed meal, but all are healthy and all natural. But all natural protein powder and a pop tart are both processed foods by definition, yet one is far more processed, and one uses natural ingredients.

I don't think for a long shot most of the people on here are eating mostly junk, I just think some are missing the point. There is a difference between weight loss and eating for overall health and nutritional value. It is possible to eat with a Focus on both, but If that's not your goal or its not important to you, then by all means eat a Big Mac if it fits your caloric requirements.

I'll get off my soap box now.

Edit- and Michael pollan is the man.

And this is my issue with you and others like you.

The bold says that if you eat a Big Mac then you're not eating for health, that your health is not important to you. That is utter nonsense. A balanced healthy diet can include Big Macs, fries and anything else. It's all about balance. If it fits your calories and macro requirements then you can still be healthy and foucused on nutrition.

Big Macs (along with 90% of the food at mcdonalds) is filled with processed garbage and trans fats. Its not good for you. Period. Yes, you can eat one and still be a healthy person overall. But if that style of eating is a daily part of your food choices, you are not making healthy long term decisions.

The whole point I was trying to make Is that eating to lose weight and eating healthy food to promote long term health and well being aren't always the same. Not that you are an evil person if you have a Big Mac once every couple of months.

Try watching the documentary "food inc." to become better acquainted with how and what processed food is made up of, because clearly some folks simply do not understand the definition.

What is the definition?

To me, a processed food is any food that is made using unnatural or genetically modified ingredients.

Here is a good link with a definition and a brief explanation:
http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/processed-food-definition-2074.html

Well then I certainly hope you don't buy anything from a grocery store, because I can assure you that every food there goes through its fair share of "processing."

A good rule of thumb for grocery stores is stay on the perimeter. Veggies, meats (happily raised vegetable or grass fed animals preferably), whole grains, natural cheeses (not processed "cheese foods", non gmo dairy. Its quite simple. Of course there are certain things that are processed to an extent, I usually go organic for that, like marinades, condiments, and what not. Have you ever seen a modern commercial farm? I'm going to assume not based on your assumptions.

I give up. I'm not going to change any bodies mind. If you don't want to or can't grasp the difference between eating low calories and eating healthy, then so be it.

All of the items you listed were processed, or genetically modified through agriculture and animal husbandry over the years.

The fact you are buying marinades from the store (but organic!) rather than making them yourself, not to mention the focus on almond "milk" and protein powder, as mentioned above, and then preaching about processed foods is just so perfect.

Not that it's necessarily bad to buy marinades. I'm sure some are tasty. I'm not the one who thinks all processed foods are inherently anti-health.

geebusuk

From the link which claims you look at the ingredients list to tell if it's processed.

It would seem putting something in a box or bag makes it 'processed'.

So, I would guess if I made a cottage pie from steak (am I allowed to mince it, surely that's a 'processing'), potatoes and whatever kind of gravy you can make that doesn't count as 'processed', it's ok.
BUT, if I put it in a container to eat the next day *WAMMO* suddenly it's evil processed food!

Or does that not count if I do it?
What if the girl friend/wife/etc does it?
What if it's just a casual friend?

What if my partner works in a food factory and does it?
Does that suddenly change it from 'healthy' to 'unhealthy', even if they're doing exactly the same thing?


So - if you want to convince people, have a think through your definitions, work it out yourself first and come back to use if you can make a congruent answer.

Me, I HAVE thought the above through and decided that in reality the black and white 'processed bad' guff is a big load of unscientific BS.

oinkerjnn

I guess I just try to take A more common sense approach to eating. I shoot for mostly individual items and ingredients cooked and combined myself, or from a grocer or restaurant that I trust. I shoot for a "real world" diet, and unfortunately that diet includes whey protein (processed), almond milk (also processed), and probably a few other processed foods as well.

I thought it was common knowledge that fast food and most frozen food were not as healthy as eating whole, natural, foods.

I'm sorry for offending your sensibilities. Go back to eating Big Macs, hot pockets, and lean cuisines, and counting your calories in calories out, because apparently that's all that matters.

lemonsnowdrop

I guess I just try to take A more common sense approach to eating. I shoot for mostly individual items and ingredients cooked and combined myself, or from a grocer or restaurant that I trust. I shoot for a "real world" diet, and unfortunately that diet includes whey protein (processed), almond milk (also processed), and probably a few other processed foods as well.

I thought it was common knowledge that fast food and most frozen food were not as healthy as eating whole, natural, foods.

I'm sorry for offending your sensibilities. Go back to eating Big Macs, hot pockets, and lean cuisines, and counting your calories in calories out, because apparently that's all that matters.

More sodium and sugar does not make something less healthy than something else.

brower47

I guess I just try to take A more common sense approach to eating. I shoot for mostly individual items and ingredients cooked and combined myself, or from a grocer or restaurant that I trust. I shoot for a "real world" diet, and unfortunately that diet includes whey protein (processed), almond milk (also processed), and probably a few other processed foods as well.

I thought it was common knowledge that fast food and most frozen food were not as healthy as eating whole, natural, foods.

I'm sorry for offending your sensibilities. Go back to eating Big Macs, hot pockets, and lean cuisines, and counting your calories in calories out, because apparently that's all that matters.

So processed foods are okay as long as they are on your list of processed foods you find convenient? Yeah, that's not arbitrary at all.

Also, throughout this conversation, are you really going to claim that most people that have been engaged in this discussion have advocated only counting calories without consideration for any other factors. You are just as good at selective reading as you are at approving personally convenient processed foods.

AlabasterVerve

I've created my own patterns of eating or food culture I guess that allow me to maintain my weight and enjoy my life. According to the forums my diet is a mix of "demonizing food" and "bro science" or in my case maybe "grandmom science" would be a better description but that's ok. It works for me and I'm happy. And I don't need an app to know if it's ok to eat which I think probably makes my diet more sustainable in the long run. At least for me it is.

Iron_Feline

I guess I just try to take A more common sense approach to eating. I shoot for mostly individual items and ingredients cooked and combined myself, or from a grocer or restaurant that I trust. I shoot for a "real world" diet, and unfortunately that diet includes whey protein (processed), almond milk (also processed), and probably a few other processed foods as well.

I thought it was common knowledge that fast food and most frozen food were not as healthy as eating whole, natural, foods.

I'm sorry for offending your sensibilities. Go back to eating Big Macs, hot pockets, and lean cuisines, and counting your calories in calories out, because apparently that's all that matters.

geebusuk

I thought it was common knowledge that fast food and most frozen food were not as healthy as eating whole, natural, foods.

It is.

Like a lot of 'common knowledge', it's not actually based on fact.

Excellent marketing for people selling pretentious food stuffs too - also for the many 'fresh' food you buy in the supermarket that have previously been frozen and defrosted, but you pay a premium for compared to the ones that haven't been defrosted for you .

terrance250

#1 most important factor for weight loss - caloric deficit.
#2 most important factor for weight loss - proper macro-nutrient levels that promote preservation and/or production of lean body mass.
#3 most important factor for weight loss - a reasonable/rational approach that prevents getting burned out.
#4 most important factor for weight loss - whatever makes you feel special.

IIFYM is the wave of the future folks.

opalsqueak007

Very interesting thread. I live in UK and we grow all our own veg in a rented plot (£40 a year) called an allotment. Everyone in my village has one. This way, people can grow their own stuff and it tastes much better than any supermarket food. I wonder if people have that option in the United States?

RllyGudTweetr

I guess I just try to take A more common sense approach to eating. I shoot for mostly individual items and ingredients cooked and combined myself, or from a grocer or restaurant that I trust. I shoot for a "real world" diet, and unfortunately that diet includes whey protein (processed), almond milk (also processed), and probably a few other processed foods as well.

I thought it was common knowledge that fast food and most frozen food were not as healthy as eating whole, natural, foods.

I'm sorry for offending your sensibilities. Go back to eating Big Macs, hot pockets, and lean cuisines, and counting your calories in calories out, because apparently that's all that matters.

"Common sense" is a curiously nebulous concept, when one gets right down to it. Can you explain how whey protein is "common sense" but a Lean Cuisine - conveniently labeled to allow a consumer to make it fit with macro-nutrient goals - is not?

geebusuk

Very interesting thread. I live in UK and we grow all our own veg in a rented plot (£40 a year) called an allotment. Everyone in my village has one. This way, people can grow their own stuff and it tastes much better than any supermarket food. I wonder if people have that option in the United States?

Out of the cities, they generally have much bigger gardens/more land than we do in the UK, so no need to rent an allotment.

jackiemonx

i think the original point is that american (and australian btw) generic supermarket foods are way more processed than european equivalent. example, chicken breast, standard chicken breast in oz or usa is twice as large as in europe, why? cos it pumped full of hormones and water when theres no need for it to be.
breads and fruit n veg etc is grown to last way longer on the shelves and so is 'processed' more in order to do so
its not so much about the big macs etc, u get them in every country but the standard foods u buy in supermarkets are way different in quality in the different countries

I thought that was the original point. The quality of food in the generic supermarkets in North America is not as high as European countries because there are stricter rules as to what can and cannot be in the food. The European Trade Union won't allow the sale of GMO foods and foods containing certain food additives. Some companies like Kraft have a North American version and a European version of the same product for this very reason. A glaring example is beer in the UK brewed under the German purity laws so the ingredients are water, barley, and hops as opposed to mainstream North American beers that can have HFCS, caramel colour, sulphites and salt added. North Americans and more so Americans over Canadians are too widely accepting of artificial food additives, preservatives and GMO. From experience of being Canadian citizens who live part of the year in the US and Caribbean, we find the quality of the food in the US inferior in quality but not lacking in quantity. The food standards are certainly less stringent in the US!

yeah that was the original point everyone just wanting to go on the is mcds good or evil stuff again and not look at anythin else! lol

paperpudding

I guess I just try to take A more common sense approach to eating. I shoot for mostly individual items and ingredients cooked and combined myself, or from a grocer or restaurant that I trust. I shoot for a "real world" diet, and unfortunately that diet includes whey protein (processed), almond milk (also processed), and probably a few other processed foods as well.

I thought it was common knowledge that fast food and most frozen food were not as healthy as eating whole, natural, foods.

I'm sorry for offending your sensibilities. Go back to eating Big Macs, hot pockets, and lean cuisines, and counting your calories in calories out, because apparently that's all that matters.

But nobody is saying that is all that matters for health and nutrition.
And nobody is saying eat only Big Macs and hot pockets

You seem to be setting up this straw man and then getting upset over something nobody actually said.

geebusuk

First off, yes you can buy 'GM' foods in the EU. And no, 'GM' has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the food for your body. In some cases the genetic modifications have added in stuff to make it 'better' as far as range of nutrients go, I believe.
Some modifications, such as those to make a plant drout resistant say, could possibly reduce the nutrients - but the same could be said for different strains, ripeness and many other factors. GM it's self is a really silly thing to focus on, to my mind.

Living in the UK, there's plenty of continental european food I find rather 'processed' in that 'plasticy' way so many dislike.
Probably just that I'm not used to their particular style.

kelly_e_montana

I think the focus on calories puts the measure of success on the wrong thing: the scale. I think it should be more about overall health and body composition. I've lost 8% bodyfat this year, gained 13 pounds of muscle and have stayed the same weight eating quality foods at maintenance and lifting heavy. So I now have a higher metabolism and eat more quality nutrients because I have a bigger plate to eat off of, metaphorically. Plus, I'm stronger and more fit. I rarely get sick and feel so much better than when I was eating all the processed crap and working at a deficit. My workouts are fueled and my performance in competitive runs, lifts and Crossfit workouts is so much better. My vitals are better. My pants fit better. My scale is the same.

kelly_e_montana

First off, yes you can buy 'GM' foods in the EU. And no, 'GM' has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the food for your body. In some cases the genetic modifications have added in stuff to make it 'better' as far as range of nutrients go, I believe.
Some modifications, such as those to make a plant drout resistant say, could possibly reduce the nutrients - but the same could be said for different strains, ripeness and many other factors. GM it's self is a really silly thing to focus on, to my mind.

Living in the UK, there's plenty of continental european food I find rather 'processed' in that 'plasticy' way so many dislike.
Probably just that I'm not used to their particular style.

You're very naive to think that we know the generational outcomes of genetically modified foods. We have no idea.

geebusuk

You're very naive to think that we know the generational outcomes of genetically modified foods. We have no idea.

Do you think you know the generational outcomes of the food you eat right now that's not GMO?

What studies that have precisely studied these food choices could you cite to back up your views?

Also, if we say that's 8lb of fat you lost (I presume it's a bit more), you will likely have increased your metabolism by 62 calories a day (best guess from known data on such things). So we're talking one biscuit extra a day.

For obese people, a focus on losing weight IS a focus on getting healthier.
Once they are not overweight, then I'd quite agree that low calories is not the right thing to focus on - I'd suggest moving more is the next thing to improve health, if they aren't that active.

eric_sg61

I think the focus on calories puts the measure of success on the wrong thing: the scale. I think it should be more about overall health and body composition. I've lost 8% bodyfat this year, gained 13 pounds of muscle and have stayed the same weight eating quality foods at maintenance and lifting heavy. So I now have a higher metabolism and eat more quality nutrients because I have a bigger plate to eat off of, metaphorically. Plus, I'm stronger and more fit. I rarely get sick and feel so much better than when I was eating all the processed crap and working at a deficit. My workouts are fueled and my performance in competitive runs, lifts and Crossfit workouts is so much better. My vitals are better. My pants fit better. My scale is the same.

All in the same year?

Achrya

Why must it be one against the other? The two work great when you put them together...

^^^ they also have a bit of a tendency to go hand in hand as you can often eat MORE high quality food for the same amount of calories of crap

^^^^^^
This x 10000.

A Big Mac meal with a strawberry shake has 1575 calories. For that amount of calories I can have:

Protein shake for breakfast with US protein added almond milk and 2T flax seed meal
6 oz watermelon
Chicken sandwich loaded with veggies on whole wheat bread
Half cup pistachios
Another protein shake post workout same mix no flax seed
Homemade chicken scallopine with asparagus and mushrooms over whole wheat pasta.

That's what I've logged so far today by the way, though I haven't eaten dinner yet. Its right at 1600 calories.

I'll have another serving of fruit and probably some more pistachios too, but that's besides the point.

But...then I still need another 1000 calories. And I'm full because of your low calorie/low energy but high volume food. I couldn't live that way and maintain my weight. Are you suggesting I think eat another 1000 calories like that? Because I'm fairly sure I'd be sick.

geebusuk

That did sound, ah, 'impressive' to me, especially given no y chronosome.

But not beyond the realms of reasons if we were talking 365 days.

dlr165

You do you and I will do me. I personally don't care what you eat. Why do people think what someone eats is up for discussion? If someone eats, 100 calorie snack packs and loses weight . . . good for them. I shouldn't feel the need to comment on their diet of processed food because it's none of my business.

lemonsnowdrop

I think the focus on calories puts the measure of success on the wrong thing: the scale. I think it should be more about overall health and body composition. I've lost 8% bodyfat this year, gained 13 pounds of muscle and have stayed the same weight eating quality foods at maintenance and lifting heavy. So I now have a higher metabolism and eat more quality nutrients because I have a bigger plate to eat off of, metaphorically. Plus, I'm stronger and more fit. I rarely get sick and feel so much better than when I was eating all the processed crap and working at a deficit. My workouts are fueled and my performance in competitive runs, lifts and Crossfit workouts is so much better. My vitals are better. My pants fit better. My scale is the same.

Well I'm glad to know that what works for you must work for everyone else, and that since your life has been improved so much it means your way is absolute.