Tabata Training

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  • JamesBurkes
    JamesBurkes Posts: 382 Member
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    As I say, not criticising it, just pointing out that people may actually want to try it first before dropping more "traditional" workouts that may actually be working for them.
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
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    I see a few problems with Tabata training as is commonly described.

    Firstly, in the actual study Tabata did, he was pushing his athletes to excruciating levels of work. Most of the tabata workouts I see mentioned on sites like this are just short HIIT workouts. I'm not denying they're tough! But I can't see how you can mimic the levels of exertion Tabata achieved in his study with kettlebells and the like.

    Also, Tabata's study, if I remember correctly, focussed on improvements in cardiovascular fitness, not calorie burning or fat loss. It may well be a great protocol for improving fitness/performance but it may not be the best approach for many here, who just want to burn off fat or build muscle.

    Thirdly, the whole EPOC idea is getting more scrutinised at the moment - I saw one study recently that showed that EPOC following HIIT (not Tabata, I know, but still...) was only 14% of what you actually used in the workout - not impressive if you're only burning 150 calories because you're only working out for 10 minutes.

    Finally, I have seen other studies that show that Tabata's big improvements in fitness seem to plateau after a few weeks. I've also seen criticism of the study itself (EDIT - see link below) in that Tabata's control group did more traditional low intensity cardio, yet so did his Tabata group for one day a week, thus it's hard to say if the improvements came from Tabata or from that day of cardio.

    I'm not denying it's a tough workout or that it has a place in people's routines (especially if they enjoy it), I'm just a bit wary of fads.

    EDIT: Actually, just remembered a good article by Lyle Macdonald - he puts it a lot better than me (damn - wish I'd remembered it before I typed all the above! Oh well....)

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/effects-of-moderate-intensity-endurance-and-high-intensity-intermittent-training-on-anaerobic-capacity-and-vo2-max.html

    Calling most of these workouts "tabata" is like calling Velveeta "cheese". The only "true" Tabata protocol requires working out on a stationary bike at a watt level that represents 170% of your VO2 max. You can't replicate that effort doing a circuit workout.

    Ultimately, it doesn't really make any difference what it is called--whatever name you give them, these are just normal high intensity aerobic or circuit interval training sessions. High- or higher-intensity training can enhance many workout routines--the workload intensity can be scaled to match the ability of most people.

    There is nothing magic or unique about the "tabata" protocol or the interval ratio used in the studies--even for tabata's athletes. The efficacy of doing short, all-out intervals was established at least 40 years before Tabata's studies.

    If you like these workouts, then by all means continue--there's nothing wrong with them. Just don't get caught up in trying to follow a "tabata-inspired" protocol. Most people do not need to work like that to get the benefits of HIIT. There is plenty of research out there that shows significant benefits from working at the 80%-90% effort, which is more than enough for the average exerciser.
  • pamelapeldo
    pamelapeldo Posts: 47 Member
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    bump
  • medmasha
    medmasha Posts: 1
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    Tabata consists of 4 minute intervals, not 4 minutes total. You can do as many intervals of different exercises as you like. Standard 1hr classes, means about 8-15 intervals depending on your warm up and time between intervals. It's tough and very effective as cardio, strength training, and just feeling like a badass!

    Happy Tabata-ing :)
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,834 Member
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    Tabata consists of 4 minute intervals, not 4 minutes total. You can do as many intervals of different exercises as you like. Standard 1hr classes, means about 8-15 intervals depending on your warm up and time between intervals. It's tough and very effective as cardio, strength training, and just feeling like a badass!

    Happy Tabata-ing :)

    That's wrong. As explained above.
  • Umpire57
    Umpire57 Posts: 389 Member
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    OK, From everything I read, what most people consider Tabata really is not cause of the near possibility of pushing yourself to 100% max.

    With that said and understood, if you follow what most people call Tabata and really push yourself to do your best in your intervals how successful is it?

    I am considering doing a night time version of this a couple of times a week and continue my morning routine as is.

    Thoughts?
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,714 Member
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    Tabata consists of 4 minute intervals, not 4 minutes total. You can do as many intervals of different exercises as you like. Standard 1hr classes, means about 8-15 intervals depending on your warm up and time between intervals. It's tough and very effective as cardio, strength training, and just feeling like a badass!

    Happy Tabata-ing :)
    Disagree. True Tabata is 4 minutes...........and done. If you can last an hour, then you're doing HIIT. Tabata requires ALL OUT EFFORT. That means 100% during the interval. You CAN'T go 100% for an hour.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,714 Member
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    I see a few problems with Tabata training as is commonly described.

    Firstly, in the actual study Tabata did, he was pushing his athletes to excruciating levels of work. Most of the tabata workouts I see mentioned on sites like this are just short HIIT workouts. I'm not denying they're tough! But I can't see how you can mimic the levels of exertion Tabata achieved in his study with kettlebells and the like.

    Also, Tabata's study, if I remember correctly, focussed on improvements in cardiovascular fitness, not calorie burning or fat loss. It may well be a great protocol for improving fitness/performance but it may not be the best approach for many here, who just want to burn off fat or build muscle.

    Thirdly, the whole EPOC idea is getting more scrutinised at the moment - I saw one study recently that showed that EPOC following HIIT (not Tabata, I know, but still...) was only 14% of what you actually used in the workout - not impressive if you're only burning 150 calories because you're only working out for 10 minutes.

    Finally, I have seen other studies that show that Tabata's big improvements in fitness seem to plateau after a few weeks. I've also seen criticism of the study itself (EDIT - see link below) in that Tabata's control group did more traditional low intensity cardio, yet so did his Tabata group for one day a week, thus it's hard to say if the improvements came from Tabata or from that day of cardio.

    I'm not denying it's a tough workout or that it has a place in people's routines (especially if they enjoy it), I'm just a bit wary of fads.

    EDIT: Actually, just remembered a good article by Lyle Macdonald - he puts it a lot better than me (damn - wish I'd remembered it before I typed all the above! Oh well....)

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/effects-of-moderate-intensity-endurance-and-high-intensity-intermittent-training-on-anaerobic-capacity-and-vo2-max.html
    Tabata Protocol was designed to increase VO2 MAX. You are correct.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,834 Member
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    OK, From everything I read, what most people consider Tabata really is not cause of the near possibility of pushing yourself to 100% max.

    With that said and understood, if you follow what most people call Tabata and really push yourself to do your best in your intervals how successful is it?

    I am considering doing a night time version of this a couple of times a week and continue my morning routine as is.

    Thoughts?

    If you can sleep after that, then go for it. I get crazy rush of endorphins & can't sleep for a while. Don't forget, it takes a lot out of your recovery. Similar drain to a heavy weights session IMO.
  • Udail51
    Udail51 Posts: 35 Member
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    For what its worth I have done "tabata" type workouts many times in the last year. They are awesome in that they work you really hard. It is one of the tools you can use. It seems to work well.
  • scotty12345678
    scotty12345678 Posts: 1
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    How many calories would I burn if I did tabata for 20 seconds at a time with a 10 second break inbetween and did it at 13 miles an hour repeated that 5 times then 17 miles an hour and repeat that 6 times then did 19 miles an hour and repeated that 5 times and then did 20 miles an hour and repeated that 3 times? Thanks
  • Huffdogg
    Huffdogg Posts: 1,934 Member
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    How many calories would I burn if I did tabata for 20 seconds at a time with a 10 second break inbetween and did it at 13 miles an hour repeated that 5 times then 17 miles an hour and repeat that 6 times then did 19 miles an hour and repeated that 5 times and then did 20 miles an hour and repeated that 3 times? Thanks

    There's no way to answer this except to say that 1. This is an HIIT workout, not Tabata or even really similar to Tabata protocol and 2. you'll need a HRM to find out how many calories YOU burn doing this.
  • contingencyplan
    contingencyplan Posts: 3,639 Member
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    Tabata consists of 4 minute intervals, not 4 minutes total. You can do as many intervals of different exercises as you like. Standard 1hr classes, means about 8-15 intervals depending on your warm up and time between intervals. It's tough and very effective as cardio, strength training, and just feeling like a badass!

    Happy Tabata-ing :)

    Very wrong. Actual tabata IS only 4 minutes total, 20 second intervals of work followed by 10 second intervals of rest and is not conducted in a class setting. One thing to bear in mind is that most EVERYTHING you see being taught in a group class setting is very watered down/prepackaged for the masses and is in NO WAY like the actual thing it's based on. What classes call HIIT, not HIIT. What classes call tabata, not tabata.
  • contingencyplan
    contingencyplan Posts: 3,639 Member
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    How many calories would I burn if I did tabata for 20 seconds at a time with a 10 second break inbetween and did it at 13 miles an hour repeated that 5 times then 17 miles an hour and repeat that 6 times then did 19 miles an hour and repeated that 5 times and then did 20 miles an hour and repeated that 3 times? Thanks

    Actual tabata training cannot be done running, especially on a treadmill. It should be done with full body resisted movements, such as calisthenics. An example would be mountain climbers or burpees.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,714 Member
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    How many calories would I burn if I did tabata for 20 seconds at a time with a 10 second break inbetween and did it at 13 miles an hour repeated that 5 times then 17 miles an hour and repeat that 6 times then did 19 miles an hour and repeated that 5 times and then did 20 miles an hour and repeated that 3 times? Thanks

    Actual tabata training cannot be done running, especially on a treadmill. It should be done with full body resisted movements, such as calisthenics. An example would be mountain climbers or burpees.
    Well, I'll disagree here. Sprints for 20 seconds with 10 second walks in between. Of course the sprints will get weaker and weaker into the minutes, but that's what Tabata is supposed to do.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • contingencyplan
    contingencyplan Posts: 3,639 Member
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    How many calories would I burn if I did tabata for 20 seconds at a time with a 10 second break inbetween and did it at 13 miles an hour repeated that 5 times then 17 miles an hour and repeat that 6 times then did 19 miles an hour and repeated that 5 times and then did 20 miles an hour and repeated that 3 times? Thanks

    Actual tabata training cannot be done running, especially on a treadmill. It should be done with full body resisted movements, such as calisthenics. An example would be mountain climbers or burpees.
    Well, I'll disagree here. Sprints for 20 seconds with 10 second walks in between. Of course the sprints will get weaker and weaker into the minutes, but that's what Tabata is supposed to do.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    I suppose, but it cannot be done on a treadmill simply factoring in the motor speeding down/slowing up.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,714 Member
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    How many calories would I burn if I did tabata for 20 seconds at a time with a 10 second break inbetween and did it at 13 miles an hour repeated that 5 times then 17 miles an hour and repeat that 6 times then did 19 miles an hour and repeated that 5 times and then did 20 miles an hour and repeated that 3 times? Thanks

    Actual tabata training cannot be done running, especially on a treadmill. It should be done with full body resisted movements, such as calisthenics. An example would be mountain climbers or burpees.
    Well, I'll disagree here. Sprints for 20 seconds with 10 second walks in between. Of course the sprints will get weaker and weaker into the minutes, but that's what Tabata is supposed to do.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    I suppose, but it cannot be done on a treadmill simply factoring in the motor speeding down/slowing up.
    Unless off course one can actually jump on and off the treadmill while it runs at max speed for the runner. But I wouldn't recommend it because face plants don't increase you VO2max!
    I would say you'd have to do the sprints on a track or outside.


    A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • HealthyLife89
    HealthyLife89 Posts: 4
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    I have Amy Dixons Breathless Body and BB Vol 2 The Edge. I'm pretty sure what she does is tabata. Her workouts are 50 minutes long with bursts of intense workouts and 10 seconds rest in between each set. With a bit of a longer rest in between each circuit. Like 30 second or a minute. Not exactly sure.. I personally love it and it makes my workouts go by so much faster and I always get much better results.

    Nvm, I'm guessing they are HIIT and not Tabata. Still awesome.
  • Tyggress73
    Tyggress73 Posts: 104 Member
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    My trainer does Tabata workouts with me, as I already get my cardio and weight training done on my own the rest of the week. I LOVE it! An example of the one we did last week:

    Each individual exercise is done for 20 seconds on, 10 seconds rest, then on to the next one.
    1 - 2 minute rest in between each "round" of exercises.
    We do 4 - 8 rounds depending on how much I can handle. :)

    -Clean lifts, 20lb bar
    -Rope (the big rope you see on Biggest Loser)
    -Push ups
    -6.0 mph sprint on treadmill

    Sometimes he'll throw in tire flips, sledgehammer swings, etc. Anything I can do continuously for 20 seconds non-stop.
  • Tyggress73
    Tyggress73 Posts: 104 Member
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    Tabata consists of 4 minute intervals, not 4 minutes total. You can do as many intervals of different exercises as you like. Standard 1hr classes, means about 8-15 intervals depending on your warm up and time between intervals. It's tough and very effective as cardio, strength training, and just feeling like a badass!

    Happy Tabata-ing :)

    Absolutely incorrect.
    Tabata IS a 4 minute workout set consisting of 20 seconds work/10 seconds rest intervals.

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