Be Smart... don't fall for Fads and scams :)

kncapitano

":noway: When I said about the eating two donuts a day... I was saying ONLY 2 donuts a day... So even though they are under their calorie allotment, they aren't getting their other nutrients so it is not considered healthy. If someone is getting there nutrients and under calories, then it would be different. Not everything is just about calories (Yes I know that to burn 1 lb of fat you need to burn 3500 calories) , there are also fats, carbs, sodium, protein etc that can change the shape of your body. It isn't all just about calories in vs. calories out if you care about overall health rather than just weight loss. For example: Muscle needs protein to rebuild and strengthen. 2 Donuts alone per day might equal say 1000 calories (just picking a number here) so while you may lose "weight" since you are under calories, you are still putting fatty foods in your body which affects glycogen, blood sugar, insulin,etc which all in turn can be stored as fat rather than energy. Its not so simple as just monitoring calories. I wouldn't want people to focus just on getting skinny or losing weight, but rather learning about portions, healthy whole foods, exercise, strength training etc.. Let's focus on feeling GOOD! :happy:"

I do agree with what you are saying here. Right now for me though I am focusing on my CICO. I know this isn't the healthiest but it is what I am doing for now (I still fail some days). My plan as of now is to wait until I get to my goal weight or close and then worry about the nutrition. I know this probably isn't the best method and is only the one I'm using right now. Tomorrow I could change my mind. Most days I seem to meet "most" of my macro's but I need to clean that up a bit and quite a bit on some days. Right now I think just focusing on my calories will make me healthier. Not healthy but healthier. This drives my husband crazy because he wants me to focus on all the nutrients while he does not. LOL
[/quote]

I think that is great. You need to do what is best for you. Weight loss isn't a race... the kind that really lasts takes time and effort. Keep setting goals and yes you will fail sometimes, we all do, but don't let those failures frustrate you and hold you back. You can definitely reach them. We all have different ways to feel good/confident. My way might be different than yours and so on, but you do what works for you. Best of luck. (And hubbies aren't always right haha)

jofjltncb6

I feel like this could have gone in a completely different way, had OP not used the word clean.

Moderation. Now, that's something I can get behind.

For me it would have went differently if the OP didn't constantly equate healthy to clean in her prior posts and implying that anything that isn't clean is unhealthy or even just not healthy. I happen to think that someone could eat 100% unclean and still be just as healthy if they ate 100% clean.

Indeed.

OP did not *misspeak* in her assertion about "clean" eating. OP simply has an opinion that eating 100% "clean" is superior in re health to eating <100% "clean"...or said another way, that all else being equal the "cleaner" one eats, the "healthier" they will be.

In her defense, she certainly isn't the only one with this incorrect belief.

kncapitano

I think enough has been said about the whole clean eating drama. If you guys still want to discuss it by all means, but I am ready to move on. (Jeez, these boards are tough to walk away from... they are entertaining to say the least). :drinker:

I leave it at this: I NEVER intended for my use of the words "eat clean" mean that you should eat healthy 100% of the time, avoid ALL processed foods, and never indulge. Trust me... that was NOT my intention because I don't even follow those notions. I will not use that term in these boards again because I understand where some of you are coming from, and because it just isn't worth anymore arguing over it. :sick:

I'm not going anywhere (so for those of you who want that... sorry!) But I do look forward to future debates, conversations/discussions etc.

That is what is great about message boards. I just wish that on here we could relax and have good general discussions and help each other be successful and meet their own goals.

I wish you all the best of luck on your fitness journeys. I'll still be checking in on here and will still defend myself if I see fit. I will also be more than happy to actually discuss things in my post. (Or like I mentioned... messaging me is always a quicker option).

Have a great evening!

Now, if someone has any genuine questions regarding my use of the term, or about what my post was actually about, PLEASE feel free to message me

PikaKnight

Just going to drop these links for any lurkers interested in learning more...

http://body-improvements.com/2013/05/24/undiet-your-diet/

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/ihad/view/the-myth-of-good-and-bad-foods-by-eric-helms-588801

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/hormonal-responses-to-a-fast-food-meal-compared-with-nutritionally-comparable-meals-of-different-composition-research-review.html

jofjltncb6

And I still maintain that chicken is not inherently more healthy than pizza.

What is "silly" about this particular discussion is the insistence that it is.



TL;DR - dietary health simply cannot be determined on a food-by-food basis.



edit: because the word "not" matters.

PikaKnight

I never ONCE said I was an expert... I said that "experts" use that term as well, which is accurate. Do I personally feel I have good knowledge on the topic? Yes! Absolutely! But that is not something I even CARE to prove on a message board. I'm simply implying that with my personal experiences, I have been successful with how I take to fitness. I never said anyone should follow or do exactly as I say lol.

True you didn't actually say you were an expert, but it sure was inferred:

I guess being a nationally certified trainer, fitness specialist, and working assistant to a doctor and nutritionist must mean I know nothing... lol. (eye roll)

But I'm sure you'll just come back and say you didn't actually say even though anyone spouting off these credentials in any other situation sure would sound like they were waving the big ole "I'm an expert" flag..but each their own perception I guess?

jofjltncb6

Perhaps?



“What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.”

― Ralph Waldo Emerson

earlnabby

Defining "clean eating" to me is simple. If you are following the Clean Eating program designed by Alejandro Junger, you are eating clean and you fell into a fad. If you are not following his program to the letter, you are not eating clean.

He coined the term and, while he did not copyright it, it belongs to him and only describes his fad program.

maidentl

Defining "clean eating" to me is simple. If you are following the Clean Eating program designed by Alejandro Junger, you are eating clean and you fell into a fad. If you are not following his program to the letter, you are not eating clean.

But, what if you're following Eat Clean by Tosca Reno? :laugh:

lemurcat12

And yes I believe pizza is as good as lean chicken..maybe more so as it has more macros than chicken and hits lots of micros...esp if it's delux with veggies and cheese and meats.

Deluxe pizza is more healthy than lean chicken.

You can't make this stuff up.

As was explained, pizza is simply a bread-based crust with cheese and tomato-based sauce (usually) plus some items on top, here specified as vegetables and meat. There is nothing inherently unhealthy about pizza. What would it be?

Bread? (I'm assuming we aren't talking about the cauliflower pizza here.) I realize that some are anti bread in all respects, but most are not. Bread can be a part of a healthy diet and it's even recommended in ridiculous amounts (IMO) by the US gov't. Better to have whole grain? Sure, use whole grain flour. I've made pizza crust with whole grain flour before. It's not unheard of. Plus, if you make/buy thin crust, it's not that high a percentage of the total. More traditional pizza (at least as I understand it) tends to have extremely thin crust (although white, of course).

Cheese? Well, cheese has tons of calories, so use sparingly or be prepared to make room in your day, but given the number of people (even some "clean eaters!") who snack on cheese, seems kind of harsh to disqualify pizza based on cheese.

Meat? Why? Some people even have chicken on pizza (my parents, for example, and I've done it too, although I tend to prefer less healthy meatless pizza, sadly). And already we have all three macros covered!

Veggies? Add lots. I love spinach pizza, and I'm also partial to green peppers on pizza (with mushroom and black olives), but load it up with the veggies you prefer.

Compare that to chicken, even chicken breast, and the chicken is mainly preferable if one is cutting fat or if one is trying to save calories. But we already fit this into out calories, remember.

On the whole, the problem with pizza is that it may have more calories than it's filling-ness justifies, but that's going to vary a lot depending on how it's made, and that it may be quite fat and carb heavy, but that can be fixed by eating more protein the rest of the day or putting more of a leaner variety on the pizza.

On the other hand, if you just ate chicken breast you'd of course not be healthy, and there are probably some (not me) who would be more likely to eat veggies if they were on pizza.

The point--as Diane and Stef both explained--is that context matters.

earlnabby

Defining "clean eating" to me is simple. If you are following the Clean Eating program designed by Alejandro Junger, you are eating clean and you fell into a fad. If you are not following his program to the letter, you are not eating clean.

But, what if you're following Eat Clean by Tosca Reno? :laugh:

I give up. I refuse to use the term and from here on in, I refuse to discuss it. It is one of those terms that grates on me like nails on a chalkboard.

DiabolicalColossus

You are exceedingly passive aggressive and 100% dedicated to your false "everyone is attacking me because I have an opinion" story.

It shows when you said that you "weren't going anywhere (even though some want that)". I paraphrase, of course...as I don't find that dreck worth quoting. You should be aware that this kind of behavior calls your claims of professionalism into question in every way possible.

You may not have outright said you were an expert, but you sure did teeter right on the edge of doing so. I cannot imagine how utterly condescending you are to clientele who disagree with you. I can't decide whether I want to ignore your insanity or watch your train derail off a cliff every time you hear a dissenting opinion.

This is YOUR thread that YOU started. YOU were making claims that people were attacking YOU. The onus to prove that is on YOU. YOUR words and YOUR continued outlandish behavior drew criticism from others. I saw the behavior of others: there was no name calling, no immature use of purposely misspelled words and emoji, no constant "lol" in the middle of thinly veiled insults, no logical failures and no calls for you to leave. If anyone had done any of that, I would've said so. I saw frustration and annoyance on the part of those who attempted to reason with you, not ill will.

In short, this is YOUR doing. I pointed out where things went wrong, and all you could possibly take away from it was that I didn't tell people who were politely disagreeing with you that they were "bullying" you?

I will not disrespect you, but I will not coddle you either. If dissent on an internet message board is "bullying", I cringe to think how impossible real life interactions with you are.

This is the point where you'll post some attempt at wit, throw in a bunch of "lols" and emoji, talk about how funny this all is and how people are mean and blah blah blah. Save it. Your projection is dull and I won't engage in it anymore. I wish you luck, but most of all I wish you clarity and a less easily bruised ego.

It's all a pack of cards, Alice.

BombshellPhoenix

I feel like this could have gone in a completely different way, had OP not used the word clean.

Moderation. Now, that's something I can get behind.

For me it would have went differently if the OP didn't constantly equate healthy to clean in her prior posts and implying that anything that isn't clean is unhealthy or even just not healthy. I happen to think that someone could eat 100% unclean and still be just as healthy if they ate 100% clean.

Indeed.

OP did not *misspeak* in her assertion about "clean" eating. OP simply has an opinion that eating 100% "clean" is superior in re health to eating <100% "clean"...or said another way, that all else being equal the "cleaner" one eats, the "healthier" they will be.

In her defense, she certainly isn't the only one with this incorrect belief.

Fair point!

kgeyser

:noway: That was not the post I was referring to... it was before that. But thank you for the lecture. :drinker:

And again... this is a message board and I take it as such. I am NOT worried about being "Scoffed at by those who saw this and see what you are about" I have legitimate tips and advice regarding fitness and health. I have made other comments on other posts and have had no negativity yet (Though I'm sure some of you are jumping at the chance :laugh: ). As I stated in a previous post. I had NO IDEA that "clean" was a buzzword. I have never heard that before until I came on here. I also stated above that I won't use it and be more careful which terms I use to make a point (even if that was NOT the point in the first place).

Your welcome, I typically pull out my mom voice when running into people who are acting like teenagers who have read the book of all...can't help it I have one at home.

As for your others posts do you mean on your "other" profile because on this profile you have 2 posts...this one you started and one you commented on about how people lose weight differently in which you didn't spout nonsense.

That is the point I was trying to make. It is a simple word that SOME people use to generally mean healthy food. The word "healthy" can ALSO have multiple meanings since healthy means different things to different people. It's just a simple word to use to describe natural foods. It does NOT mean that all unnatural foods are dirty or unhealthy. Thank you for reading the post the way it was meant and not reading into something I never intended to. Unfortunately, reading things on the internet can easily be misconstrued and for that I do not blame others for disagreeing with that term. I do however disagree with those who got rude about it though to try and make a point... when we were pretty much saying the same thing. Once I explained that I did not mean it as a 100% thing, I would have thought they would back off. Persistence is key I guess. Thanks for your reply!

As for this...then that's the point you should have made...I read the words and take them for their meaning in context. We can't read minds and know what you "intended" we can only go by what is typed out and that doesn't mean it was misconstrued...

because even now you are spouting about "eating clean" even if it's 80% of the time which is well...what you just aren't getting.

There is no clean or dirty, no natural or unnatural food...it's all fuel and can be used for various things. Pizza is a good fuel, lean chicken breast is good fuel, heck a donut is good fuel and the fiber1 peanut butter brownie I am about to eat is good fuel...

So since persistence is key get this...clean eating and exercise is not the key to weight loss, eating in a calorie deficit is, eating nutrient dense foods and exercise is for health and you can still be fat eating "clean" and "exercising" if you are not in a calorie deficit

Well... sorry but I am going to completely disagree with you. I agree that I should have been more cautious with the chosen word and described myself better. So in that aspect you are right. But if you honestly tell me that health and losing weight is ONLY about being in a calorie deficit and you basically stated that ALL calories are created equal then I COMPLETELY utterly disagree. That is like telling people they can eat 2 donuts a day but since they are under their calorie amount they will lose weight. :noway: Anorexics lose weight because they obviously are in a calorie deficit. Does that make them healthy? Healthy does NOT always mean being in a calorie deficit. And YES a calorie is a calorie and to lose weight one must burn 3500. I get it. But some calories are "empty" and pose no nutritional value to help the cells in your body burn fat, metabolize food, and maintain muscle. Do you honestly believe that a slice of pizza is as healthy as a chicken breast? Is pizza a demon? NO... and people should be able to ENJOY pizza. But if your sake of argument is that to be healthy and lose weight, a person only has to eat less calories... then you are way off base.

Yes, a person can eat two donuts a day, be healthy, and lose weight if they are in a calorie deficit. Some people can even do it while also hitting their RDA for micronutrients and manage to hit all their macros. It all depends on your TDEE.

ETA: Take a look at the diet of Olympic athletes. Michael Phelps had an extremely high calorie requirement, openly admitted to eating fast food regularly, and he won how many medals? Are we going to call him unhealthy?

:noway: When I said about the eating two donuts a day... I was saying ONLY 2 donuts a day... So even though they are under their calorie allotment, they aren't getting their other nutrients so it is not considered healthy. If someone is getting there nutrients and under calories, then it would be different. Not everything is just about calories (Yes I know that to burn 1 lb of fat you need to burn 3500 calories) , there are also fats, carbs, sodium, protein etc that can change the shape of your body. It isn't all just about calories in vs. calories out if you care about overall health rather than just weight loss. For example: Muscle needs protein to rebuild and strengthen. 2 Donuts alone per day might equal say 1000 calories (just picking a number here) so while you may lose "weight" since you are under calories, you are still putting fatty foods in your body which affects glycogen, blood sugar, insulin,etc which all in turn can be stored as fat rather than energy. Its not so simple as just monitoring calories. I wouldn't want people to focus just on getting skinny or losing weight, but rather learning about portions, healthy whole foods, exercise, strength training etc.. Let's focus on feeling GOOD! :happy:

Yeah, I wasn't talking about it from the perspective of only two donuts a day, because that's an extreme and unrealistic example. Although I imagine they would be about as healthy as the person who only eats 1000 calories of broccoli a day. And I do understand about macros and micros, which is why I said due to TDEE there are people who can fits two donuts into their day on top of all the other food they are eating and still hit all their macros/micros and be healthy.

And no, eating fatty foods in a deficit will not cause those foods to be stored as fat due to glycogen, insulin, glucose levels, or any other reason with the exception of a medical condition. Fat storage comes from eating more calories than you burn, no matter where the calories come from.

Alluminati

I looked at OP's history. Not once in the midst of all this, did she attempt to help anyone else on any of the numerous cleanse,fad, weight loss pill threads that came and went on the main board. She wants to help people so much with her expert advice. Right.

diannethegeek

Any other day I would probably just let this thread die, but I'm on cold medicine today and the OP has rubbed me the wrong way. So, as this thread comes to an end, let's review some of the things the OP has said about us all, shall we? It's like a beautiful little snark poem:

My friend and I last night were laughing at the "Hysteria" people made over a such simple word!

They need to get overrrr it. It is NOT that big of a deal, no reason to cry over it. :sad:

So many snobby people on this so called friendly health/fitness site... pretty sad actually. :sick:

its almost pathetic the bullying that goes on in here it shouldn't even warrant a response.

I don't plan on going anywhere, and ready to actually discuss the topic at hand without silly naysayers, negative nancy's, and sensitive sally's changing the subject.

I really figured with age people would grow out of mockery

Do you really listen/read what some of you are writing?

Right now all I hear is blah blah blah since so many of you are arguing and knit picking every little thing.

Ohhh I get it... YOU all are the experts... OOPS My bad lol. :::eye roll:::

Thank you for not just "attacking" like the herd and actually putting thought into your post even if we might have some disagreements on the content.

And now I'm due for another dose and a nap.

lemurcat12

Defining "clean eating" to me is simple. If you are following the Clean Eating program designed by Alejandro Junger, you are eating clean and you fell into a fad. If you are not following his program to the letter, you are not eating clean.

But, what if you're following Eat Clean by Tosca Reno? :laugh:

Heh. In one of the prior versions of this discussion I tried to figure out who coined the term and came up with her. Who can answer this important question?

kncapitano

You are exceedingly passive aggressive and 100% dedicated to your false "everyone is attacking me because I have an opinion" story.

It shows when you said that you "weren't going anywhere (even though some want that)". I paraphrase, of course...as I don't find that dreck worth quoting. You should be aware that this kind of behavior calls your claims of professionalism into question in every way possible.

You may not have outright said you were an expert, but you sure did teeter right on the edge of doing so. I cannot imagine how utterly condescending you are to clientele who disagree with you. I can't decide whether I want to ignore your insanity or watch your train derail off a cliff every time you hear a dissenting opinion.

This is YOUR thread that YOU started. YOU were making claims that people were attacking YOU. The onus to prove that is on YOU. YOUR words and YOUR continued outlandish behavior drew criticism from others. I saw the behavior of others: there was no name calling, no immature use of purposely misspelled words and emoji, no constant "lol" in the middle of thinly veiled insults, no logical failures and no calls for you to leave. If anyone had done any of that, I would've said so. I saw frustration and annoyance on the part of those who attempted to reason with you, not ill will.

In short, this is YOUR doing. I pointed out where things went wrong, and all you could possibly take away from it was that I didn't tell people who were politely disagreeing with you that they were "bullying" you?

I will not disrespect you, but I will not coddle you either. If dissent on an internet message board is "bullying", I cringe to think how impossible real life interactions with you are.

This is the point where you'll post some attempt at wit, throw in a bunch of "lols" and emoji, talk about how funny this all is and how people are mean and blah blah blah. Save it. Your projection is dull and I won't engage in it anymore. I wish you luck, but most of all I wish you clarity and a less easily bruised ego.

It's all a pack of cards, Alice.

You say my opinion is false... I say it's not. Your opinion doesn't trump mine and vice versa... so this argument is already invalid. We BOTH have opinions and neither affects the other. Just smile! Things will be okay.

I have nothing to prove to you or anyone on here. I'm just here to join in conversations, help others, listen to others, get advice on various things people have tried etc. It's a message board... it's not so serious. This feels like Politics 101 more that an internet discussion board. Of course you left out all positives and respect I gave you in my previous reply. Look who got irritated that I did not agree with SOME of it? I thanked you for giving a thought out response. Do I have to agree with everything you said? No, I still don't. I do think you have made valid points and I am not taking that away from you.

You tell me to "save it" but no... I will say my peace and if you chose to ignore or post back that is your right.

You say you wonder how I act towards my clients. Well... obviously pretty well or I wouldn't have any. We get along great and they get results. You can't judge a true persons personalities based on an internet debate. Obviously everyone thinks they are right, and in my case... my mistake was not realizing and at first acknowledging about using a term that is not specific enough.

And I'm sorry you don't like my "lols" or emojis. I put LOL to signify that I'm smiling and trying to make this whole debate less serious. If I put a pissed off face then it would be more serious and what is the point of getting angry over text? I love using emoji, what can I say... I use Instagram! The only Gif I used was from Disneys Frozen lol, its funny.cute gif... not serious.

Lastly, trust me... my ego will never be bruised from a message board. I'm a happy girl. Maybe that bothers people that I haven't just gotten frustrated and quit replying. I do enjoy debates and conversation when they have merit. Some of this discussion I have enjoyed on here. Some... I have not. That is my opinion and right. You have yours.

Alluminati

Any other day I would probably just let this thread die, but I'm on cold medicine today and the OP has rubbed me the wrong way. So, as this thread comes to an end, let's review some of the things the OP has said about us all, shall we? It's like a beautiful little snark poem:

My friend and I last night were laughing at the "Hysteria" people made over a such simple word!

They need to get overrrr it. It is NOT that big of a deal, no reason to cry over it. :sad:

So many snobby people on this so called friendly health/fitness site... pretty sad actually. :sick:

its almost pathetic the bullying that goes on in here it shouldn't even warrant a response.

I don't plan on going anywhere, and ready to actually discuss the topic at hand without silly naysayers, negative nancy's, and sensitive sally's changing the subject.

I really figured with age people would grow out of mockery

Do you really listen/read what some of you are writing?

Right now all I hear is blah blah blah since so many of you are arguing and knit picking every little thing.

Ohhh I get it... YOU all are the experts... OOPS My bad lol. :::eye roll:::

Thank you for not just "attacking" like the herd and actually putting thought into your post even if we might have some disagreements on the content.

And now I'm due for another dose and a nap.

Haha, nice! Feel better :flowerforyou:

kncapitano

I looked at OP's history. Not once in the midst of all this, did she attempt to help anyone else on any of the numerous cleanse,fad, weight loss pill threads that came and went on the main board. She wants to help people so much with her expert advice. Right.

um... I said early I just came back to MFP. I have only been on 3 other boards and posted so far.... give me time young grasshopper. I will