TDEE vs Eat Back
JoRocka
Posts: 17,525 Member
so- I've been musing and thinking- and tinkering with numbers- and I'm going to ask here because- well I know you guys know all the things.
I've been doing okay using 1500 + eat back calories. I've wiggled my way down since July from 168 to 160 roughly.
I'm in no rush- so I don't mind that it's a slow stead loss- I'm officially pre-bulk weight (GO ME- technically I started at 162- so I'm below pre-bulk which is also a big fat WOOT WOOT)- but I am just wondering if I'm still eating a bit high (which horrifies me b/c I already am hungry all the time).
But anyway- on to questions.
Currently doing 1500 + eat back calories, which means for the last 30 days:
Average net calories -1531
Average Gross calories-1870
I had 2 really low days- so I tossed them- I don't remember if I did a bad job logging- or I just really didn't eat that much- I doubt it was that I didn't eat that much- I'm too much of a fat kid to really honestly not eat that much.
So if I do TDEE- with workouts in there...
TDEE- set to 3 workouts a week
BMR 1496
TDEE 2057
For continued cutting:
15% of that is 1700
20% is about 1650
4 week times a week
BMR 1496
TDEE 2122
For continued cutting:
15% is1802
20% is 1698
Which makes sense- I mean it's on point with what I"m eating currently - except- everyone raves about TDEE allowing you to eat a little more- I know most of the girls in my lifting forum are eating 2200 TDEE and losing.
So that's my question- why would my cutting numbers be so low still when everyone else is rolling deep in the 2000's plus for cutting on TDEE.
Am I missing something??
Not a crisis- just musing and thinking. My method has been working fairly well as is- so I'm not crazy about changing- but from what I'm seeing- even if I change it won't matter- I'm still going to be eating the same amount, which in my head makes sense- except for the fact I see other women cutting around 2200- and I'm not going to lie- if I can get away with eating more on TDEE method and I'm doing the math wrong- I need to know- because I feel like I'm dying on 1500-1800- okay- well that's an exaggeration. I'm not dying- but I'm hungry and tired all the time- lifts are okay- work is okay- but still.
It sucks. 1500 isn't that much LMAO.
Cry cry cry- hangry.
Okay- yeah- that's my question...or thoughts.
I've been doing okay using 1500 + eat back calories. I've wiggled my way down since July from 168 to 160 roughly.
I'm in no rush- so I don't mind that it's a slow stead loss- I'm officially pre-bulk weight (GO ME- technically I started at 162- so I'm below pre-bulk which is also a big fat WOOT WOOT)- but I am just wondering if I'm still eating a bit high (which horrifies me b/c I already am hungry all the time).
But anyway- on to questions.
Currently doing 1500 + eat back calories, which means for the last 30 days:
Average net calories -1531
Average Gross calories-1870
I had 2 really low days- so I tossed them- I don't remember if I did a bad job logging- or I just really didn't eat that much- I doubt it was that I didn't eat that much- I'm too much of a fat kid to really honestly not eat that much.
So if I do TDEE- with workouts in there...
TDEE- set to 3 workouts a week
BMR 1496
TDEE 2057
For continued cutting:
15% of that is 1700
20% is about 1650
4 week times a week
BMR 1496
TDEE 2122
For continued cutting:
15% is1802
20% is 1698
Which makes sense- I mean it's on point with what I"m eating currently - except- everyone raves about TDEE allowing you to eat a little more- I know most of the girls in my lifting forum are eating 2200 TDEE and losing.
So that's my question- why would my cutting numbers be so low still when everyone else is rolling deep in the 2000's plus for cutting on TDEE.
Am I missing something??
Not a crisis- just musing and thinking. My method has been working fairly well as is- so I'm not crazy about changing- but from what I'm seeing- even if I change it won't matter- I'm still going to be eating the same amount, which in my head makes sense- except for the fact I see other women cutting around 2200- and I'm not going to lie- if I can get away with eating more on TDEE method and I'm doing the math wrong- I need to know- because I feel like I'm dying on 1500-1800- okay- well that's an exaggeration. I'm not dying- but I'm hungry and tired all the time- lifts are okay- work is okay- but still.
It sucks. 1500 isn't that much LMAO.
Cry cry cry- hangry.
Okay- yeah- that's my question...or thoughts.
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Replies
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I'm still trying to lose, so ~1500 for me a day is good, although it gets a bit rough on days when I run a ton ( I don't eat back, true to TDEE - 20 and all that jazz)
I'm here for you, I'm afraid I have no answers. But I feel your pain. I too would love to eat even more food, but for now, unless my math is very wrong, I'll stick with what's working.0 -
I lost every pound of my weight doing TDEE minus 20%.
I'm currently 5'6" 150 lbs lift heavy 3-4 x a week and cardio 6 days a week and I eat MINIMUM 1850 calories a day.
To lose right now, I'd eat 1650 a day but make sure I NET at least 1200. So if I did a 10 mile run or something like that, I'd be eating close to 2500 calories that day or more0 -
I'm here for you, I'm afraid I have no answers. But I feel your pain. I too would love to eat even more food, but for now, unless my math is very wrong, I'll stick with what's working.
LOL exactly- it's working so I'm not really thinking I'm off- but hot dayumn would it be nice to eat more.To lose right now, I'd eat 1650 a day but make sure I NET at least 1200. So if I did a 10 mile run or something like that, I'd be eating close to 2500 calories that day or more
well technically if you are going TDEE...you aren't doing eat back calories... so you would still be eating the same amount- I mean- that IS the point of TDEE.- but yes- I understand the concept.0 -
I'm just eating my TDEE (since I don't know how much I'm actually burning), and that countered with mfp's burns, it says I'm netting around 1420.
and I'm losing.
it's nice eating 2100 a day. it took my body a little bit of time to adjust, but I'm back on the downhill slope, now.
you can eat more. just keep your workouts the same, and give it some time. then see what you think. personally, I'm a LOT happier now that I'm eating more food. :flowerforyou: best of luck!0 -
Are these girls who are cutting on 2200 calories your size? My TDEE is only 1750 so my deficit was set to 1400-1600. Maybe you are working out more than the TDEE calculates as exercise, so eating back exercise calories would allow you to eat more. I would stick with whatever works for you. Maybe try upping the calories a bit if it'll make you less hangry.0
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I don't know- we have a wide range- many of them are shorter than I am actually- and usually lighter- I'm 5'8 at 160... which is why I kind of scratch my head to see someone 15-20 pounds lighter and shorter being able to eat more than me- perhaps it has to do with more cardio- I don't' do much specific cardio- usually 15-20 min of drop in zumba between shifts at the studio- and some cardio via dance- and when I'm lucky I get jump rope or stair master in- so usually only one solid session of short cardio.
perhaps I should just do more cardio and then i could eat more LOL0 -
If you're losing a pound a week if not more, then you could stand to eat more and lose more slowly?
I am 5ft5 and 133lbs and sloooooowly getting a bit of fat off at net 1700 cals.0 -
What is your BF relative to the other folks in your lifting group? What are their workouts relative to your workouts? And, since you've dropped 8 pounds have you gone back and re-calculated your numbers? You may want to look at fat2fitradio for BMR, Scooby(forget the whole website) for other calculations, and MFP so you have several reference points. 1500 calories given your weight, height, age, and gender seems low. Just MHO.0
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Jo- you said you have your TDEE set for working out 3 times a week. I think that's an under - estimate. You may lift 3x a week but dont you pretty much dance, run, walk most other days.? Try to increase your activity level in t he calculators and see what TDEE it gives you. I would bet you can eat more than you think.0
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What is your BF relative to the other folks in your lifting group? What are their workouts relative to your workouts? And, since you've dropped 8 pounds have you gone back and re-calculated your numbers? You may want to look at fat2fitradio for BMR, Scooby(forget the whole website) for other calculations, and MFP so you have several reference points. 1500 calories given your weight, height, age, and gender seems low. Just MHO.
most of us our on some sort of heavy lifting program- I don't know fine tune details.
I have recalculated- the numbers in my original post are for my weight at 160.
I've done a couple several times- they all tend to pan out about the same- and even worse- through June- I was prepping for a comp- I wasn't really all that worried about losing weight- so I was half *kitten* on a deficit- but due to an incorrect entry for workouts- I was "overeating" but I maintained eating consistently around 2000 +/- 200- so ranging from 1800-2200- I maintained 165-168... And I weigh daily- so I have solid numbers to back up my maintance floating around 2000- everything points to the math being solid.
But I agree the numbers DO seem low LOL- hence m grumbling!!
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So I tried TDEE for awhile and found I prefer NEAT + eat back -- just because my physical activity seems to be varied enough that TDEE just felt less accurate for me.
But here's something I'm struck by: you've lost 8 pounds since July. Even assuming July 1, that's better than a pound a week. And you're lean and strong to begin with so it's not like you're schluffing off bits of what is plentiful fat stores. If you don't mind slow and steady, seems you could easily add 250 calories a day and *still* lose more than a half pound a week, which I don't imagine would be all that bad. Or add 375 which puts you closer to 2000 and you're still dropping a quarter-pound a week.
Whether NEAT or TDEE the numbers should be exactly the same -- there is nothing magical about which method you choose, provided you're bringing the same diligence and accuracy to either approach. If you really are hangry and tired all the time, consider bumping up the cals for the sake of sanity and quality of life!0 -
I recently switch from eating back my exercise calories to TDEE. I found that I should eat 1900 calories, which is what I was averaging when I was eating back my exercise calories anyways.
So far, I like it. It's better than zig zagging, and I'm still losing weight
I was worried about not using food as a reward for exercise, but I still feel just as motivated Now I know I can have a delicious desert everyday and not just on workout days haha
Another worry of mine was what if my exercise routine changes.. so far no change! I even thought I didn't work out quite as much during my first TDEE week, and I still lost a pound and a half
So far so good!0 -
I find most calculators hard for me to figure out. According to my fit bit I am burning around 2500 calories a day. I use it for all walking activity and am estimating around 100 cals per ten minutes when lifting. This is a wild wild guess lol. I have being eating around 3000 plus a day. Last week I decided I was starving and managed 4000 :blushing: . I am maintaing roughly with this. High weeks 70kg, low weeks 68kg. I like weighing 68kg lol . Also I lift at home, so I am slowly increasing my weights and I am getting stronger and fitter.
Anyway , I am 5'7.5 , 150 pounds. I average 1300 thousand steps. Some days with work and taking the kids to school I get 1600 steps on a high day. My work is a factory . Lots of standing at a machine, and walking carrying boxes. Somedays light, somedays quite heavy. I am trying to get consistent with lifting three days a week. I usually aikido once a week. One or two hours teaching, so walking around making sure kids stay safe, and two hours training. According to every calculator , I am eating too much lol. I also don't have a lot of muscles. Legs okay. Arms puny looking (thanks dad :noway: )
Jo , I would expect with my work that I need to eat more than you, but you do a lot outside of work. I can be a little bit lazy. I know when I got to my low weight of 63 or 64 kilos 140 pounds ish, I felt terrible. It wasn't a good weight for me. My profile picture is at my low weight. I did have some health issues as well . My boss actually dreamt I was a drug addict. My iron and b12 were low. Fixed that. My d is up and down. I have a low heart rate . My thyroid is in the 'normal' range, but my GP thinks I am a little hyper. I know I feel better if I eat regularly. If I don't, I am a *****. Well my co-workers probably think that anyway
But yeah we are all different, but I can help thinking you could eat a little more. But my other thought is to get a blood test, just to see if iron or anything is out of wack ?0 -
With 7k + posts you seem to know what to do for everyone else but not yourself...
Or you do know the answer but don't want to accept it. So look are you the other women you talk to? You are you, so dont worry about how much other people can eat. The scale doesn't care that you should be able to eat more or if you are hungry. If you think you have a real problem ask a real MD not some random internet meatheads.0 -
With 7k + posts you seem to know what to do for everyone else but not yourself...
Or you do know the answer but don't want to accept it. So look are you the other women you talk to? You are you, so dont worry about how much other people can eat. The scale doesn't care that you should be able to eat more or if you are hungry.
I don't think you read the post very well. It had nothing to do with "I don't know what to do for myself"
Like I said- I've successfully put on and lost 20 pounds this year- and what I'm doing is working just fine. Just more annoying that I feel like I might could possible be eating more.
I know very well how this works- I'm more curious as to the fact I have real time data results- and that most people prefer TDEE because it gives them more foods to eat- but my numbers are fairly low to everyone else's AND my TDEE +deficit numbers wind up about the same place as my NEAT + eat back.
wow rude much- technically by those standards you ARE one of the random internet meatheads... besides I like most of my random internet meatheads- most of them are really on point, secondly I'm not an idiot- I know when I need to see a doctor and when I just want to have a discussion about things.If you think you have a real problem ask a real MD not some random internet meatheads.
There is not a real problem- I was thinking- and wanting to get some feed back.
...
and moving on
I definitely sit all day- and while I run long days- they aren't excessively physically active long days- sometimes they are- sometimes they aren't. But I can promise you there is no way I cold put down 4K without putting on weight LOL- my bulking numbers were up there around 3-3500 LOL.But yeah we are all different, but I can help thinking you could eat a little more. But my other thought is to get a blood test, just to see if iron or anything is out of wack ?
<sadpandaface>I recently switch from eating back my exercise calories to TDEE. I found that I should eat 1900 calories, which is what I was averaging when I was eating back my exercise calories anyways.
So far, I like it. It's better than zig zagging, and I'm still losing weight
I was worried about not using food as a reward for exercise, but I still feel just as motivated Now I know I can have a delicious desert everyday and not just on workout days haha
Another worry of mine was what if my exercise routine changes.. so far no change! I even thought I didn't work out quite as much during my first TDEE week, and I still lost a pound and a half
So far so goo
NICE!!! that's kind of my hope was to give myself some buffer room-but technically- I'd be eating even less with TDEE- which just kind of made me sad. But I'm leaning towards giving it a shot next month and seeing how it goes- not the end of the world if I give it a shot and don't like it!!!But here's something I'm struck by: you've lost 8 pounds since July. Even assuming July 1, that's better than a pound a week. And you're lean and strong to begin with so it's not like you're schluffing off bits of what is plentiful fat stores. If you don't mind slow and steady, seems you could easily add 250 calories a day and *still* lose more than a half pound a week, which I don't imagine would be all that bad. Or add 375 which puts you closer to 2000 and you're still dropping a quarter-pound a week.
I'll have to go check my weight chart- at best it's 8 pounds- at worst is only 5 (depending on the "range" of numbers you pull from) but if the trend is solid then maybe I'll toss another 200 or so on there- not that it would make a huge difference but every little bit counts right!!
it's a good point- thank you.
Definitely not in any rush- I have no where to be- my lifting and dance training isn't going anywhere- and I have no competitions or meets or anything- so really my only goal is to just be down to a lower weight by winter- that's ideal- then I don't have to worry so much about being so anal through the winter- maybe do a 3 month mini bulk again LOL- I'm starting to watch the year in terms of bulk/cut cycles.
#lifterproblems LOL
thanks everyone- I appreciate your thoughts on it!!! been good to kind of mull it around!0 -
If you already know what you are averaging when eating back your calories, and since your average is over a pretty good chunk of time, why not just use that average as your TDEE. Instead of relying on a calculation that is just a good guess.0
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So that's my question- why would my cutting numbers be so low still when everyone else is rolling deep in the 2000's plus for cutting on TDEE.
Am I missing something??
In my opinion:
1) I very highly doubt that there are high percentages of females in your weight range that are successfully cutting at 2000 plus calories and the ones who are, very likely have a buttload of activity. Are there "a few" who can? Probably. But that's certainly not the majority.
2) I don't think your current gross intake is low. 1870 puts you at just a touch under 12 kcal/lb. That's certainly within a range of what I'd consider to be very reasonable for fat loss and I wouldn't hesitate to pull calories downwards if you're not losing at a reasonable pace at that intake.0 -
Personally I prefer the Eat Back method over TDEE. It motivates me to actually work out and it accounts for days/weeks when I just don't/can't.
I agree that 1500 seems pretty low for someone your size. I am similarly sized and can eat 2000 plus exercise calories and lose a half pound a week. I'm wondering if your 4-5 hours of sleep is what's doing you in.0 -
My guess would be that those ladies eating 2K plus calories per day on a cut are probably doing more than just lifting 3x weekly.
Having experimented quite a bit with different levels of activity for myself, I can tell you that if all I did was lift 3x weekly and maybe a little walking here and there, my TDEE is only around 2400-2500ish calories..basically a couple hundred more calories per day more than if I were to pretty much do nothing except my day to day activity. That would put my -20% cut at around 1900 - 2000 calories per day.
Cycling substantially increases my overall TDEE...my maintenance has been right around 2800 or so calories per day which would put a 20% cut at around 2,240 which was right around what I was grossing with the MFP method when I was using it rather than TDEE.
In my experience, the two methods are basically 6 of 1...I don't do TDEE because I get more food...like I said, pretty much came out the same. I switched to TDEE because my exercise became pretty routine and consistent and I found it easier to just include that activity in my day to day. I think the MFP method is great for people new to exercise who may or may not be achieving their fitness goals and working out consistently...but once it becomes routine I just find it easier to include that activity in your day to day.
Personally, I think those ladies that are cutting at 2K plus (and there can't be many relatively speaking) are probably doing quite a bit of cardio as well.0 -
different BMR and they may exercise 6 times/week.0
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