Sugar is the new "Devil"
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I am left leaning and I agree with that way of looking at taxes.Yes...increased prices can curb demand.....
But let market forces dictate that, not government putting its thumb on the scales.
Again, TAX CODES should not be used to punish people or to tilt the scales in ones favor and against anothers.....
Always confounds me how left leaning people get all bent out of shape when those on the right want to "legislate morality"....
But then turn around and do the same thing, by wanting to legislate peoples habits or behaviors when it is something they don't agree with.
Let the market decide.
Let people pay higher costs for the bad choices they make....
I do it when I decide I want to spend my money on cable TV, or internet, or cell phone....
Or if I prefer to have bison steak vs chicken breast one night.....
I weigh the cost and then make a decision on if I wish to spend my money there or not.....
I don't need the government coming in and tell me(force me) where to spend my money.
I am not fat
I am able to control my eating
So when I want to have one of these "sin" foods, I don't want to be taxed for it.
:drinker: :drinker:0 -
Before you offer an opinion on health care please be sure you really know how it works. I, work in health care, live in america, and let me tell you something, people are not stupid and they know how to get around things. So you say it has to be an emergency situation where someone is Keeling over? Have you ever considered going to the ER for the flu, a headache, a toothache? No? Well I have picked up hundreds of patients that dial 911 that want to be driven to the ER due to those issues. And I'm told plenty of times that they do that because they can't pay for a doctor. Guess who pays that bill? Us, who work and pay for insurance.Joining the "Weepy, left wing commie 'murica-hating sissy government sheep " in the pro "sin" taxes corner.
Where I'm from (not 'merica) the taxes are pretty darn high, on most thing actually, but the benefits are substantial. We have FREE health care and free education for everyone so there is nothing stopping anyone from getting the help they need or the education they desire. Just sayin
It ain't "Free", you are paying for it in many ways....and not just taxes.
and here in "merica", no one is turned down for health care.
Hospitals cannot turn a person away it is against the law, so they are forced to treat people.
Regardless if the person can or cannot pay
What you are referring to only applies to emergency situations or women in labor. Many people cannot afford the maintenance treatments they need for chronic diseases or other diseases like certain kinds of cancer. Those aren't considered emergencies - until the person is about to keel over for it. And even then, they are given the basic treatment that will prevent death - not necessarily the maintenance treatment they need. And they are still billed for it.
I was talking to my Mom's oncologist, who we trust and have a good relationship with. He says that the unregulated pharmaceutical companies and biotech manufacturers are driving up the costs of healthcare. By comparison the doctors are cheap. My Mom's ONE medication of the ten she takes costs $100,000+ a year. We are lucky that insurance covers it. Others are not so fortunate.
One of the most disturbing trends I've seen (not saying you feel this way, just what I've seen in the media) is the blatant disregard for the lives of people who can't afford basic healthcare. Can't afford it? Too bad, you're poor so you don't really deserve to live anyway. And if you get the treatment you need? Be prepared to be hurdled into even more debt if you don't have insurance.
What's happened to us?!
I'm not an economist, so I can't tell you if sin taxes or socialized medicine are the right answer. I know that SOMETHING needs to change - both on the healthcare end and on the personal responsibility end. People need to start taking personal responsibility for their health (read: obesity) but the healthcare system needs some sort of change too.
I didn't say that ALL people in the emergency room are ready to keel over. Many people wait to get treatment because they weren't able to go to a regular's doctor's office. They wait until things get bad.
You're absolutely right - people do go the ER for little things too because they can't go see a regular doctor. What does that tell you about how screwey the system is, if people can't afford to go to the doctor? The hospitals do end up covering the cost. That's not right - because the system is not right in the first place.
That doesn't mean people who can't afford it don't deserve healthcare, in my opinion.0 -
It's amazing how often people want the government to step in and control things. As if we are children. Yea we make dumb decisions but that's life.
Yes, I'm standing on the right. Free food, free money for staying home, free rent, free health care.........= motivation. While people like me have to work 2 jobs to live barely comfortable. It's f'ing pathetic all the lazy people we have roaming around crying and moaning about everything when they do nothing to make themselves better. But don't worry......government to the rescue.
Do you eat meat? If so, unless you're rich or ready to give it up, you aren't standing as far to the right as you think you are. Meat is only cheap because it's heavily subsidized.
:huh: :huh: :huh:
I did not realize that whether or not one eats meat = what political party they are associated with.0 -
What does eating meat have to do with political beliefs?It's amazing how often people want the government to step in and control things. As if we are children. Yea we make dumb decisions but that's life.
Yes, I'm standing on the right. Free food, free money for staying home, free rent, free health care.........= motivation. While people like me have to work 2 jobs to live barely comfortable. It's f'ing pathetic all the lazy people we have roaming around crying and moaning about everything when they do nothing to make themselves better. But don't worry......government to the rescue.
Do you eat meat? If so, unless you're rich or ready to give it up, you aren't standing as far to the right as you think you are. Meat is only cheap because it's heavily subsidized.
Because of government intervention meat is affordable for most Americans. Those standing to the right abhor government intervention in our lives. Therefore, either these people don't realize why they can afford meat or are not really standing to the right, at least not when it comes to results they want from that government intervention.
Get gov. subsidization out of all of it.
IMO0 -
It's amazing how often people want the government to step in and control things. As if we are children. Yea we make dumb decisions but that's life.
Yes, I'm standing on the right. Free food, free money for staying home, free rent, free health care.........= motivation. While people like me have to work 2 jobs to live barely comfortable. It's f'ing pathetic all the lazy people we have roaming around crying and moaning about everything when they do nothing to make themselves better. But don't worry......government to the rescue.
Do you eat meat? If so, unless you're rich or ready to give it up, you aren't standing as far to the right as you think you are. Meat is only cheap because it's heavily subsidized.
:huh: :huh: :huh:
I did not realize that whether or not one eats meat = what political party they are associated with.
It doesn't. But it does determine whether you understand what you are asking for when you ask for less or no government intervention in the food supply, however, and whether or not you are prepared for the consequences.0 -
What does eating meat have to do with political beliefs?It's amazing how often people want the government to step in and control things. As if we are children. Yea we make dumb decisions but that's life.
Yes, I'm standing on the right. Free food, free money for staying home, free rent, free health care.........= motivation. While people like me have to work 2 jobs to live barely comfortable. It's f'ing pathetic all the lazy people we have roaming around crying and moaning about everything when they do nothing to make themselves better. But don't worry......government to the rescue.
Do you eat meat? If so, unless you're rich or ready to give it up, you aren't standing as far to the right as you think you are. Meat is only cheap because it's heavily subsidized.
Because of government intervention meat is affordable for most Americans. Those standing to the right abhor government intervention in our lives. Therefore, either these people don't realize why they can afford meat or are not really standing to the right, at least not when it comes to results they want from that government intervention.
Get gov. subsidization out of all of it.
IMO
Do you like food riots and hundred dollar steaks?0 -
Sugar consumption =/= obesity. I know plenty of obese people who don't ever eat sweets. Know why? Because what you eat doesn't make you fat, it's how much of it you eat. I eat "indulgences" like you mentioned all the time, and I'm sitting at 108 pounds. Doesn't look like it's killing me.
Plus, taxing snacks more than other foods is silly anyway. I'd get fat again if I ate a 12 oz. steak every night. Where's the "sin" tax on that?
^So much this.
How would you decide which foods to tax? There are so many competing theories - who is going to be the one to say that red meat is ok, but chocolate is not? Or butter is ok, but margarine is not? It's a slippery slope.
I also have a hard time taking health advice from someone who smokes and still thinks she is healthier than most other women. Like, wut? I used to smoke, was never obese, but after I quit I realized how much those cigarettes were impacting every aspect of my health. You don't really realize until you are out of it.
How many times do I have to say that I am NOT offering health advice or advocating that smoking is okay! It's just a light-hearted article I am working on in light of sin tax. Seriously!
Do some research yourself and you will see that the obesity problem far outweighs (excuse the pun) the smoking problem. I AM healthier than an inactive obese person - NOT MOST OTHER WOMEN - like you decided to interpret.
Ok then. Please address the first part of my question. Who is going to be the authority on which foods are sinful?
ETA: Actually, the cigarette tax is pretty irrelevant because it's apple to oranges. People don't need cigarettes to survive, but they do need food.
I don't understand what you are on about. I'm not advocating that anyone be the "food God". And as I mentioned, I quite agree with sin taxes on cigarettes and alcohol.0 -
Do people really imagine that any "sin tax" is based on a governments desire for it's people to be healthy, happy or live longer lives?
Taxes, however they are explained, are only ever for a single purpose, to increase government revenue.
If the government wanted people to quit smoking they would outlaw tobacco.
Using smoking as an example, the goal isn't to get anyone to quit, it's to get the the most people paying the highest possible tax. Obviously some people will quit but as long as the people who continue smoking are able to pay more in taxes it's a net win for the government.
Anything the government can demonize and then tax is fair game even if it makes no sense at all. Marijuana will be legalized next just so we can tax the stuff, sugar will be taxed, porn will be taxed, air will be taxed (or more precisely the carbon dioxide we exhale will be taxed).
None of this has anything to do with the health of any given nation, just the perpetual refilling of that nations coffers. From the governmental perspective it is all together in a nations best interest for all of us to work until we are old and then promptly die once we are no longer able to pay into the system. They need smokers, fatties and drug addicts to make that all work.0 -
Joining the "Weepy, left wing commie 'murica-hating sissy government sheep " in the pro "sin" taxes corner.
Where I'm from (not 'merica) the taxes are pretty darn high, on most thing actually, but the benefits are substantial. We have FREE health care and free education for everyone so there is nothing stopping anyone from getting the help they need or the education they desire. Just sayin
It ain't "Free", you are paying for it in many ways....and not just taxes.
and here in "merica", no one is turned down for health care.
Hospitals cannot turn a person away it is against the law, so they are forced to treat people.
Regardless if the person can or cannot pay
What you are referring to only applies to emergency situations or women in labor. Many people cannot afford the maintenance treatments they need for chronic diseases or other diseases like certain kinds of cancer. Those aren't considered emergencies - until the person is about to keel over for it. And even then, they are given the basic treatment that will prevent death - not necessarily the maintenance treatment they need. And they are still billed for it.
I was talking to my Mom's oncologist, who we trust and have a good relationship with. He says that the unregulated pharmaceutical companies and biotech manufacturers are driving up the costs of healthcare. By comparison the doctors are cheap. My Mom's ONE medication of the ten she takes costs $100,000+ a year. We are lucky that insurance covers it. Others are not so fortunate.
One of the most disturbing trends I've seen (not saying you feel this way, just what I've seen in the media) is the blatant disregard for the lives of people who can't afford basic healthcare. Can't afford it? Too bad, you're poor so you don't really deserve to live anyway. And if you get the treatment you need? Be prepared to be hurdled into even more debt if you don't have insurance.
What's happened to us?!
I'm not an economist, so I can't tell you if sin taxes or socialized medicine are the right answer. I know that SOMETHING needs to change - both on the healthcare end and on the personal responsibility side of things People need to start taking personal responsibility for their health (read: obesity) but the healthcare system needs some sort of change too.
Edit: Coherence.
How much of that is due to government regulation??
Go back and start looking at things from the 1940's moving forward and as the government's role in healthcare grew, the cost of said services have went up, not down
And regarding pharmaceutical companies driving up costs...
Again, how much is regulation
How much do these companies spend on R&D on medicines that the FDA turns down, so they can't make back their money??
Have you looked into that?
Or then they get sued,
So while I see what you are saying, and there may be some validity to it....
I still think a lot of the rise in cost is due to government intervention, people's poor choices
Just my opinion.
For those who feel, life is a tragedy
For those who think, life is a comedy
I understand why you'd think that. I don't know the numbers, but I'd guess it has more to do with corporations wanting $$$ then with government regulation. We need someone with numbers to be able to show us. :P0 -
Sugar consumption =/= obesity. I know plenty of obese people who don't ever eat sweets. Know why? Because what you eat doesn't make you fat, it's how much of it you eat. I eat "indulgences" like you mentioned all the time, and I'm sitting at 108 pounds. Doesn't look like it's killing me.
Plus, taxing snacks more than other foods is silly anyway. I'd get fat again if I ate a 12 oz. steak every night. Where's the "sin" tax on that?
^So much this.
How would you decide which foods to tax? There are so many competing theories - who is going to be the one to say that red meat is ok, but chocolate is not? Or butter is ok, but margarine is not? It's a slippery slope.
I also have a hard time taking health advice from someone who smokes and still thinks she is healthier than most other women. Like, wut? I used to smoke, was never obese, but after I quit I realized how much those cigarettes were impacting every aspect of my health. You don't really realize until you are out of it.
How many times do I have to say that I am NOT offering health advice or advocating that smoking is okay! It's just a light-hearted article I am working on in light of sin tax. Seriously!
Do some research yourself and you will see that the obesity problem far outweighs (excuse the pun) the smoking problem. I AM healthier than an inactive obese person - NOT MOST OTHER WOMEN - like you decided to interpret.
Ok then. Please address the first part of my question. Who is going to be the authority on which foods are sinful?
ETA: Actually, the cigarette tax is pretty irrelevant because it's apple to oranges. People don't need cigarettes to survive, but they do need food.
I don't understand what you are on about. I'm not advocating that anyone be the "food God". And as I mentioned, I quite agree with sin taxes on cigarettes and alcohol.
I'm not on about anything or trying to be combative. It's a relevant question I'm posting to you as the OP and other posters here. It's a conversation. If the government decides to levy a sin tax on "unhealthy" foods, who decides which foods are unhealthy?
ETA: In terms of the cigarette tax, I'm simply saying that while it was beneficial, the model probably can't be applied to sugar.0 -
What does eating meat have to do with political beliefs?It's amazing how often people want the government to step in and control things. As if we are children. Yea we make dumb decisions but that's life.
Yes, I'm standing on the right. Free food, free money for staying home, free rent, free health care.........= motivation. While people like me have to work 2 jobs to live barely comfortable. It's f'ing pathetic all the lazy people we have roaming around crying and moaning about everything when they do nothing to make themselves better. But don't worry......government to the rescue.
Do you eat meat? If so, unless you're rich or ready to give it up, you aren't standing as far to the right as you think you are. Meat is only cheap because it's heavily subsidized.
Because of government intervention meat is affordable for most Americans. Those standing to the right abhor government intervention in our lives. Therefore, either these people don't realize why they can afford meat or are not really standing to the right, at least not when it comes to results they want from that government intervention.
Get gov. subsidization out of all of it.
IMO
Do you like food riots and hundred dollar steaks?
People riot over the least little thing....
ANd then I will not eat steak.
I have faith in the free market.
People that own cows want to make money.....
So if demand for their product goes down, then they will adjust.
So yes...get rid of all subsidization...
We should not extract money from one group of ppl and give to another0 -
Before you offer an opinion on health care please be sure you really know how it works. I, work in health care, live in america, and let me tell you something, people are not stupid and they know how to get around things. So you say it has to be an emergency situation where someone is Keeling over? Have you ever considered going to the ER for the flu, a headache, a toothache? No? Well I have picked up hundreds of patients that dial 911 that want to be driven to the ER due to those issues. And I'm told plenty of times that they do that because they can't pay for a doctor. Guess who pays that bill? Us, who work and pay for insurance.Joining the "Weepy, left wing commie 'murica-hating sissy government sheep " in the pro "sin" taxes corner.
Where I'm from (not 'merica) the taxes are pretty darn high, on most thing actually, but the benefits are substantial. We have FREE health care and free education for everyone so there is nothing stopping anyone from getting the help they need or the education they desire. Just sayin
It ain't "Free", you are paying for it in many ways....and not just taxes.
and here in "merica", no one is turned down for health care.
Hospitals cannot turn a person away it is against the law, so they are forced to treat people.
Regardless if the person can or cannot pay
What you are referring to only applies to emergency situations or women in labor. Many people cannot afford the maintenance treatments they need for chronic diseases or other diseases like certain kinds of cancer. Those aren't considered emergencies - until the person is about to keel over for it. And even then, they are given the basic treatment that will prevent death - not necessarily the maintenance treatment they need. And they are still billed for it.
I was talking to my Mom's oncologist, who we trust and have a good relationship with. He says that the unregulated pharmaceutical companies and biotech manufacturers are driving up the costs of healthcare. By comparison the doctors are cheap. My Mom's ONE medication of the ten she takes costs $100,000+ a year. We are lucky that insurance covers it. Others are not so fortunate.
One of the most disturbing trends I've seen (not saying you feel this way, just what I've seen in the media) is the blatant disregard for the lives of people who can't afford basic healthcare. Can't afford it? Too bad, you're poor so you don't really deserve to live anyway. And if you get the treatment you need? Be prepared to be hurdled into even more debt if you don't have insurance.
What's happened to us?!
I'm not an economist, so I can't tell you if sin taxes or socialized medicine are the right answer. I know that SOMETHING needs to change - both on the healthcare end and on the personal responsibility end. People need to start taking personal responsibility for their health (read: obesity) but the healthcare system needs some sort of change too.
I didn't say that ALL people in the emergency room are ready to keel over. Many people wait to get treatment because they weren't able to go to a regular's doctor's office. They wait until things get bad.
You're absolutely right - people do go the ER for little things too because they can't go see a regular doctor. What does that tell you about how screwey the system is, if people can't afford to go to the doctor? The hospitals do end up covering the cost. That's not right - because the system is not right in the first place.
That doesn't mean people who can't afford it don't deserve healthcare, in my opinion.
I'm sorry but I do not agree with the whole 'people can't afford to go to the doctor' argument.
So you don't have insurance. Big deal. Guess what? Doctors take CASH and it's NOT as expensive as one would think for a simple visit. Don't have a doctor? Go to a clinic. My husband sprained his ankle really bad several months back. We don't have a GP so we waited until the after hours clinic opened up. We have insurance but we have a $10,000 deductible because our insurance is for a catastrophic emergency only so we always say we don't have insurance. His exam including the 6 x-rays they took was around $250.
Oh, and you know what else? Doctors and hospitals will put you on a payment plan if you can't afford to pay the bill up front. A friend of mine had to go to the hospital and she had no insurance and was put on a payment plan and they worked with her and asked her what could she afford every month and that's what she paid.
So not being able to afford a doctor/not having insurance is a weak excuse. And since Obamacare came into play more doctors are going to be only accepting cash.0 -
In for Thursday morning political shenanigans...0
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Do people really imagine that any "sin tax" is based on a governments desire for it's people to be healthy, happy or live longer lives?
Taxes, however they are explained, are only ever for a single purpose, to increase government revenue.
If the government wanted people to quit smoking they would outlaw tobacco.
Using smoking as an example, the goal isn't to get anyone to quit, it's to get the the most people paying the highest possible tax. Obviously some people will quit but as long as the people who continue smoking are able to pay more in taxes it's a net win for the government.
Anything the government can demonize and then tax is fair game even if it makes no sense at all. Marijuana will be legalized next just so we can tax the stuff, sugar will be taxed, porn will be taxed, air will be taxed (or more precisely the carbon dioxide we exhale will be taxed).
None of this has anything to do with the health of any given nation, just the perpetual refilling of that nations coffers. From the governmental perspective it is all together in a nations best interest for all of us to work until we are old and then promptly die once we are no longer able to pay into the system. They need smokers, fatties and drug addicts to make that all work.
Give that man a Bells! :drinker:0 -
Do you really think that all people that are poor want to work? Some don't. Some people don't mind getting free stuff. Not all. I am not speaking in absolutes. There are plenty of people on all sides.It's amazing how often people want the government to step in and control things. As if we are children. Yea we make dumb decisions but that's life.
Yes, I'm standing on the right. Free food, free money for staying home, free rent, free health care.........= motivation. While people like me have to work 2 jobs to live barely comfortable. It's f'ing pathetic all the lazy people we have roaming around crying and moaning about everything when they do nothing to make themselves better. But don't worry......government to the rescue.
Can you elaborate on poor people being lazy?
And no I'm not speaking about what you see on TV. I service areas with million dollar homes and I also service areas that are projects, boarded up windows, where people get shot at 2 pm on a school day regularly. So if you want to discuss things, talk from first hand experience and not simply from what is seen on TV.
I guarantee if every worker is paid based on how long they work, how hard they work, and how onerous their work (onerous = dangerous, dirty, unpleasant or some combination of those) we will have overproduction problems in America. People want to work and have nice things. We don't want to live in poverty so someone who already has too much can steal the value of our labor from and send us to the Food Stamp office because we don't even make enough money to buy food.
Participatory Economics is the way to go.0 -
I am also on a High Deductible plan w/ HSA
I think more people should go to this....
But sadly Obamacare is gonna wind up killing these off0 -
What does eating meat have to do with political beliefs?It's amazing how often people want the government to step in and control things. As if we are children. Yea we make dumb decisions but that's life.
Yes, I'm standing on the right. Free food, free money for staying home, free rent, free health care.........= motivation. While people like me have to work 2 jobs to live barely comfortable. It's f'ing pathetic all the lazy people we have roaming around crying and moaning about everything when they do nothing to make themselves better. But don't worry......government to the rescue.
Do you eat meat? If so, unless you're rich or ready to give it up, you aren't standing as far to the right as you think you are. Meat is only cheap because it's heavily subsidized.
Because of government intervention meat is affordable for most Americans. Those standing to the right abhor government intervention in our lives. Therefore, either these people don't realize why they can afford meat or are not really standing to the right, at least not when it comes to results they want from that government intervention.
Get gov. subsidization out of all of it.
IMO
Do you like food riots and hundred dollar steaks?
People riot over the least little thing....
ANd then I will not eat steak.
I have faith in the free market.
People that own cows want to make money.....
So if demand for their product goes down, then they will adjust.
So yes...get rid of all subsidization...
We should not extract money from one group of ppl and give to another
So are you also willing to hire a private police force to protect you from the rioters? Because there is no sense having government all all if you want a truly free market.0 -
Do you really think that all people that are poor want to work? Some don't. Some people don't mind getting free stuff. Not all. I am not speaking in absolutes. There are plenty of people on all sides.It's amazing how often people want the government to step in and control things. As if we are children. Yea we make dumb decisions but that's life.
Yes, I'm standing on the right. Free food, free money for staying home, free rent, free health care.........= motivation. While people like me have to work 2 jobs to live barely comfortable. It's f'ing pathetic all the lazy people we have roaming around crying and moaning about everything when they do nothing to make themselves better. But don't worry......government to the rescue.
Can you elaborate on poor people being lazy?
There are plenty of people on both sides - exactly. I seriously doubt every single person in poverty wants to stay that way. Some people do, I'm sure. But people characterize all poor people as being lazy, which is just not fair. I see people blanket all poor people as lazy and all non-poor people as the hard workers. People use this as justification for not supporting any type of social program aimed at poor people. Which I don't agree with. Are there people who abuse the system? Absolutely. Sometimes even rich people abuse the system, but they aren't described as lazy cause they cut corners.0 -
As a newbie to MFP but having paid a small fortune to Weight Watchers and Slimming World over the years I thought I knew all there was to know about healthy eating. I have to say I am finding it incredibly difficult to not go over my Sugar allowance - not because of chocolate or fizzy drinks but because of FRUIT!!! and I have always eaten lots of it - especially this time of the year when it is completely free and all around us... suddenly I find that if I eat all he blackberries, apples and plums that I want then I have overloaded big time on my sugar!!
Sorry off topic there - yes they have a right to tax sugary drinks etc. because they are a luxury. We don't need them because as this app has shown me we could obviously get enough for our bodies by picking bushes and trees....0
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