Is my trainer wrong?

JoRocka

. Basically, she said I need to start with core and stability work because without that how am I going to pick things up?

because that's what EVERY trainer says.

How are you going to pick things up?

by practicing picking things up.

You don't get better at picking things up by planking.

But I *want* to get better at those things, I should have specified. I'm not comfortable lifting a barbell right now because I can't, and I can't with proper form.

the only way you get better at it- is by doing it. use a broomstick and work on mobility.
Yes- "core work" and "stability" will help- but so will just trying to do those actual things you want to do.

yopeeps025

. Basically, she said I need to start with core and stability work because without that how am I going to pick things up?

because that's what EVERY trainer says.

How are you going to pick things up?

by practicing picking things up.

You don't get better at picking things up by planking.

But I *want* to get better at those things, I should have specified. I'm not comfortable lifting a barbell right now because I can't, and I can't with proper form.

the only way you get better at it- is by doing it. use a broomstick and work on mobility.
Yes- "core work" and "stability" will help- but so will just trying to do those actual things you want to do.

That true. Got to just keep trying to lift the bar until you can. Then you can start throwing on some plates.

shadowofender

. Basically, she said I need to start with core and stability work because without that how am I going to pick things up?

because that's what EVERY trainer says.

How are you going to pick things up?

by practicing picking things up.

You don't get better at picking things up by planking.

But I *want* to get better at those things, I should have specified. I'm not comfortable lifting a barbell right now because I can't, and I can't with proper form.

the only way you get better at it- is by doing it. use a broomstick and work on mobility.
Yes- "core work" and "stability" will help- but so will just trying to do those actual things you want to do.

I'm aware of that, but I do all those lifts, just with lower weight dumb bells. I still get deadlfts, weighted squats, ohp, etc. in, just not with a barbell. I don't see how that's an issue. I prefer it, I'm intimidated by the barbell right now and until I reach a point where it doesn't make sense for my ability level to do dumb bell work, I'm fine with that.

Maybe my experiences with my trainer aren't pertinent to the thread and I should have figured that out. But I'm losing inches with her, happy and comfortable, and making progress. So.

Dragonwolf

I have never worked with barbells. Some dumbbells....some machines.....so I wanted to make sure I was doing the lifts correctly. I didn't even know how to add plates! :laugh:

As for deadlifts...I thought it was 1 set of 5?

No, ma'am. One rep, 5 sets on the DLs.

The Strong Lifts site itself begs to differ -- http://stronglifts.com/why-deadlifts-1x5-stronglifts-5x5-squats/

1 set, 5 reps = 1x5.

kathycallow

I think you may want to try a different trainer. I have been doing some basic lifting with a really good trainer for about a year now, and am pretty confident you should never feel a lift in your lower back. There are ways to learn the movements without putting you at risk of injury.

giggitygoo

I would squat & dead lift but start very light - maybe just the bar - or body weight squats. Straight leg deadlifts & good mornings are great to strengthen the posterior chain - get some instruction on proper form first. They are not dangerous if done properly. Eastcoast Jim

Thanks! I am almost wondering if he started me too heavy to "prove me wrong".

Yeah, that's kinda my feeling too; seems he was trying to prove a point. My first time doing deads it was a 15# body bar to get form. You will feel deadlifts in your lower back, but it should be the muscle group you're feeling. It took me a while to learn the difference between what it feels like to work your lower back correctly. It was disconcerting at first.

I went through a few dud trainers before I found someone who worked well with me. He's a former competitive body builder, and is a fricken stickler for form. I only get to go heavier when my form is p.e.r.f.e.c.t. After starting slow (like you) for form I can now do squats at 225# for 5x15 at 115 pounds.

yopeeps025

. Basically, she said I need to start with core and stability work because without that how am I going to pick things up?

because that's what EVERY trainer says.

How are you going to pick things up?

by practicing picking things up.

You don't get better at picking things up by planking.

But I *want* to get better at those things, I should have specified. I'm not comfortable lifting a barbell right now because I can't, and I can't with proper form.

the only way you get better at it- is by doing it. use a broomstick and work on mobility.
Yes- "core work" and "stability" will help- but so will just trying to do those actual things you want to do.

I'm aware of that, but I do all those lifts, just with lower weight dumb bells. I still get deadlfts, weighted squats, ohp, etc. in, just not with a barbell. I don't see how that's an issue. I prefer it, I'm intimidated by the barbell right now and until I reach a point where it doesn't make sense for my ability level to do dumb bell work, I'm fine with that.

Maybe my experiences with my trainer aren't pertinent to the thread and I should have figured that out. But I'm losing inches with her, happy and comfortable, and making progress. So.

Dumbbell workout should never stop. If I could I would deadlift like 150-160 pound dumbbells if they were at the gym. Using the barbell sometimes ends up with uneven muscles.

Azdak

so I had a first session with a trainer earlier this week, and while mine was not this negative about SL, I could tell that she definitely would prefer to be tailoring some sort of custom program.

OMG. A personal trainer had the nerve to try and design a program tailored to your needs and your current abilities??

Quelle horror!!

Obviously, this "trainer" has not gotten the memo that her job is just to give you a stronglifts handout and count to 5.

dbrightwell1270

I like the notion that you have to do something to get better at it but at the end of the day I can't help think about the beginning of Hoosiers when all the players wanted to scrimmage and the coach started them off doing all sorts of tangential drills to reinforce the fundamentals. You've had a fitness assessment. Ask your trainer about the assessment and what is lacking that needs to be addressed before he believes you are fit enough to do your desired program, what his program design consists of and how it prepares you for the basic lifts of your program.

I've used New Rules of Lifting and New Rules of Lifting Supercharged. Both advocate squats and deadlifts but neither recommend them at the beginning for an out-of-shape used-to-be or a novice. Instead, the authors suggest starting with squat-motion and hinge-motion activities that strengthen the essential muscles and that are more endurance and muscle memory-based. There could be anywhere from a few weeks to a few months of these types of workouts depending on the readers starting level, goals and progress.

nikkohli

I would squat & dead lift but start very light - maybe just the bar - or body weight squats. Straight leg deadlifts & good mornings are great to strengthen the posterior chain - get some instruction on proper form first. They are not dangerous if done properly. Eastcoast Jim

Thanks! I am almost wondering if he started me too heavy to "prove me wrong".

Yeah, that's kinda my feeling too; seems he was trying to prove a point. My first time doing deads it was a 15# body bar to get form. You will feel deadlifts in your lower back, but it should be the muscle group you're feeling. It took me a while to learn the difference between what it feels like to work your lower back correctly. It was disconcerting at first.

I went through a few dud trainers before I found someone who worked well with me. He's a former competitive body builder, and is a fricken stickler for form. I only get to go heavier when my form is p.e.r.f.e.c.t. After starting slow (like you) for form I can now do squats at 225# for 5x15 at 115 pounds.

Yeah. I started at 75#. After doing some reading and asking around, that was seems like a ridiculous amount to start with. Tomorrow I am going to go back and use one of the body bars.

When we had our pre-training session I was upfront that this is what I wanted to do. I didn't ever let him think I wanted some kind of personalized program. I bought four sessions and said "I'd like to so Workouts A&B 2X each with you so I can make sure my form is right and have someone there to answer my questions." and then we talked about how once I moved up into really heavy weights I would probably buy some supp lessons to make sure I was still keeping form as I progressed. So yesterday when I showed up, it was weird that all of a sudden he had misgivings.

Liftng4Lis

Fantastic post everyone!

nikkohli

I like the notion that you have to do something to get better at it but at the end of the day I can't help think about the beginning of Hoosiers when all the players wanted to scrimmage and the coach started them off doing all sorts of tangential drills to reinforce the fundamentals. You've had a fitness assessment. Ask your trainer about the assessment and what is lacking that needs to be addressed before he believes you are fit enough to do your desired program, what his program design consists of and how it prepares you for the basic lifts of your program.

I've used New Rules of Lifting and New Rules of Lifting Supercharged. Both advocate squats and deadlifts but neither recommend them at the beginning for an out-of-shape used-to-be or a novice. Instead, the authors suggest starting with squat-motion and hinge-motion activities that strengthen the essential muscles and that are more endurance and muscle memory-based. There could be anywhere from a few weeks to a few months of these types of workouts depending on the readers starting level, goals and progress.

I am not sure if this is to me or the other poster who was discussing their training experiences?

nikkohli

Fantastic post everyone!

Yes--I do appreciate everyone's suggestions and feedback!

shor0814

so I had a first session with a trainer earlier this week, and while mine was not this negative about SL, I could tell that she definitely would prefer to be tailoring some sort of custom program.

OMG. A personal trainer had the nerve to try and design a program tailored to your needs and your current abilities??

Quelle horror!!

Obviously, this "trainer" has not gotten the memo that her job is just to give you a stronglifts handout and count to 5.

Why is it so hard to believe that someone might hire a trainer to teach them something they are interested in. A good trainer would have helped the OP with form on the basic lifts even if they were bodyweight or broomstick weights. Not everyone wants to do swiss ball squats. How about the trainer do the job they were hired to do. If he/she doesn't like the job don't take her money.

Azdak

I like the notion that you have to do something to get better at it but at the end of the day I can't help think about the beginning of Hoosiers when all the players wanted to scrimmage and the coach started them off doing all sorts of tangential drills to reinforce the fundamentals. You've had a fitness assessment. Ask your trainer about the assessment and what is lacking that needs to be addressed before he believes you are fit enough to do your desired program, what his program design consists of and how it prepares you for the basic lifts of your program.

I've used New Rules of Lifting and New Rules of Lifting Supercharged. Both advocate squats and deadlifts but neither recommend them at the beginning for an out-of-shape used-to-be or a novice. Instead, the authors suggest starting with squat-motion and hinge-motion activities that strengthen the essential muscles and that are more endurance and muscle memory-based. There could be anywhere from a few weeks to a few months of these types of workouts depending on the readers starting level, goals and progress.

I was just writing a similar post, so I will piggyback on yours instead.

Just to add that there are many ways to get from Point A to Point B. The majority opinion on this thread so far is to start with the full movement and practice with light weights. This is a perfectly acceptable approach with the right person. There is also the approach described above--to work on the basic parts and them put them together in a unified movement.

Either one can work just fine, and either might be more appropriate depending on the individual.

I work with a lot of people, young and old, who have absolutely no business starting off with compound lifts, even at low weights. They don't have the form or the body awareness.

There are some people to whom you can teach an exercise or movement and, while they may be a little awkward at first, you can tell that they will improve with more repetitions. And there are others who could do the movement 1,000 times and never get any better--these folks need different exercises to build a base so that they can feel their muscles differently and activate target muscles on command.

Not to mention that, for someone who is a slower learner, strength gains are going to be slower while consistently working with lower weights to perfect their form.

Again, I am not trying to say anything negative about stronglifts, but I do think there is an opposite side to the story other than just "the trainer is an idiot". In this case, the trainer may well have been an idiot, but a good trainer is there to assess you and design the best program to help you reach your goals--not just fill an order.

dbrightwell1270

I like the notion that you have to do something to get better at it but at the end of the day I can't help think about the beginning of Hoosiers when all the players wanted to scrimmage and the coach started them off doing all sorts of tangential drills to reinforce the fundamentals. You've had a fitness assessment. Ask your trainer about the assessment and what is lacking that needs to be addressed before he believes you are fit enough to do your desired program, what his program design consists of and how it prepares you for the basic lifts of your program.

I've used New Rules of Lifting and New Rules of Lifting Supercharged. Both advocate squats and deadlifts but neither recommend them at the beginning for an out-of-shape used-to-be or a novice. Instead, the authors suggest starting with squat-motion and hinge-motion activities that strengthen the essential muscles and that are more endurance and muscle memory-based. There could be anywhere from a few weeks to a few months of these types of workouts depending on the readers starting level, goals and progress.

I am not sure if this is to me or the other poster who was discussing their training experiences?

I was intending it for you. Although, I may have mixed up some of your points and the other poster's. It's late Friday and my attention span is waning.

Ask about his ideas and how they fit into your goals and then decide if they sound reasonable. Try not to get sucked into a trainer that wants to make you dependent on him so that after 150 sessions and $40 each, you'll finally be able to spread your wings and go off on your own.

Another thing to consider is asking for opinions of the trainer from around the gym. There are a lot of clipboard jockeys and incompetent morons out there that want to do nothing more than collect a paycheck. The regulars in the gym are likely to have opinions of the trainer you've hired. It may help you assess whether he is looking out for your best interests, is knowledgeable, etc.

zavrrr

so I had a first session with a trainer earlier this week, and while mine was not this negative about SL, I could tell that she definitely would prefer to be tailoring some sort of custom program.

OMG. A personal trainer had the nerve to try and design a program tailored to your needs and your current abilities??

Quelle horror!!

Obviously, this "trainer" has not gotten the memo that her job is just to give you a stronglifts handout and count to 5.

I get that this could be taken as insulting to the trainer, but in this case I requested training specifically for this purpose and was very clear about it when I put in the paperwork. I had to save up to be able to afford a couple of sessions - if I could afford to work with someone on a regular basis I would certainly defer to their recommendations, but since I know I'll be mostly working on my own I want to focus on something that I trust myself to do and stick with unsupervised.

eknobbe

I am at the end of my second week of 5x5. Thanks for the great info!!

Azdak

so I had a first session with a trainer earlier this week, and while mine was not this negative about SL, I could tell that she definitely would prefer to be tailoring some sort of custom program.

OMG. A personal trainer had the nerve to try and design a program tailored to your needs and your current abilities??

Quelle horror!!

Obviously, this "trainer" has not gotten the memo that her job is just to give you a stronglifts handout and count to 5.

Why is it so hard to believe that someone might hire a trainer to teach them something they are interested in. A good trainer would have helped the OP with form on the basic lifts even if they were bodyweight or broomstick weights. Not everyone wants to do swiss ball squats. How about the trainer do the job they were hired to do. If he/she doesn't like the job don't take her money.

No, a good trainer would do a detailed interview to determine client goals, and then an assessment to see if those goals were realistic. If it turned out that the client's expectations were incongruent with his or her current abilities, the trainer would explain the situation and outline an alternate plan to help the client reach their goals. The trainer would listen to further questions/objections and either make adjustments or provide further explanation until coming up with a mutually agreeable plan.

In reality, few situations are that black and white. If someone comes to me and they say they want to learn compound lifts, yet it is obvious they currently do not have the ability to do that, it is a fairly simple process to take a combined approach--introduce basic form techniques while also working on strengthening the individual components. In this case, I clearly explain my rationale and outline how I will help the client reach their ultimate goal. It's been successful 100% of the time, so I feel pretty comfortable with that approach.

To be clear, I am referring to situations in which the client is a complete newbie. In a case where someone had worked on the basics and was just trying to get coaching on perfecting their form, then, yes, the trainer should follow the client's wishes or not take the job.

Azdak

so I had a first session with a trainer earlier this week, and while mine was not this negative about SL, I could tell that she definitely would prefer to be tailoring some sort of custom program.

OMG. A personal trainer had the nerve to try and design a program tailored to your needs and your current abilities??

Quelle horror!!

Obviously, this "trainer" has not gotten the memo that her job is just to give you a stronglifts handout and count to 5.

I get that this could be taken as insulting to the trainer, but in this case I requested training specifically for this purpose and was very clear about it when I put in the paperwork. I had to save up to be able to afford a couple of sessions - if I could afford to work with someone on a regular basis I would certainly defer to their recommendations, but since I know I'll be mostly working on my own I want to focus on something that I trust myself to do and stick with unsupervised.

Sorry, I was using hyperbole as a rhetorical device in the general thread. That happens in these discussions and you can forget that it looks like it is directed at an individual. Again, I apologize that I made it sound like I was criticizing your specific situation.