I have noticed some saying weight loss surgery is a tool.

seltzermint555

For the vast majority of people, it is nearly impossible to become morbidly obese. Most people could eat 1000s of calories every day and live a sedentary lifestyle, and never get to 300 or 400 lbs or more. If you can get to be that obese, your metabolism is broken and losing the amount of weight that you need to lose to survive is improbable, at best.

I've never heard that before. I'm certainly not disputing it but am quite surprised as I know an awful lot of people who have been very close to or over 300 lb, and I've been 307 lb at my heaviest...but I did not have any trouble losing weight normally.

I am sincerely interested in this theory though...where did you get that information?

parkscs

All these government funded things benefit the economy by returning people to a work-ready condition and by providing those unable to work with a subsistence existence in which money they receive is immediately returned to the economy in the form of purchases necessary for life, yielding a ROI of about $1.70 in economic growth for every $1 spent on these programs.

So money is made from nothing now? We should just give everyone extra cash and the deficit will be gone in a couple years! Yay science!! /sarc

EDIT: I don't think the line above is quite clear enough in how asinine the original statement is. So you take a dollar from someone in taxes, which requires a payroll person to deduct the money from their check and send it to the government, then that money gets moved around to different accounts via the work of more people who have to be paid, then gets sent to out to the recipient, and it's somehow multiplied to $1.70? Yeah, I've gotta call BS on that one.

Seriously, if you believe this you need to start the WIC mutual fund, if you can return 70% yearly you're gonna clean up the market.

The $1.70 is in economic activity, distributed across a variety of businesses and services, it is not a "profit" returned directly to the government from which you could pay a dividend back to investors.

You take a dollar from someone in taxes, process it through various functions all of who need to be paid and who then spend that money in the economy because those are low paying jobs and they have no head-room to hoard it, eventually giving it to the recipient who also spends it immediately. The result is $1.70 in economic activity as the result of something called "velocity of money".

Or you can leave it in the pocket of the corporation, who will pay it out to the "investment class", who will hoard it in offshore accounts rather than having it participate in circulation. These people are not the "job creators", they are the resource-hoarders who act as gatekeepers standing between the "invention class" and the tools and resources of production.

I don't know what your background is in this material, but I have years of experience in high-tech companies including pre-ipo startups that tap into the self-described "job creators" for investment, an engineering degree, and an MBA. So I have a pretty strong practical and educational background in this stuff--including basic principles of macro-economics which are not politically spun and not the propaganda of any particular news source or political party.

So yeah, I am an expert, and this is my opinion. Yours seems driven by FOX news propaganda and ignorance of macro-economic principles.

(add: another way to look at it is the government takes a dollar in taxes, that dollar goes out and generates $0.70 in the economy before being recycled back to the government as a dollar in taxes. Rinse and repeat.)

Keynesian spotted.

belgerian

They are all tools, and most insurance companies wont pay until you first loose x amount of weight before the surgery. Alot of ppl have the surgery to loose but never adopt healthy lifestyles which means they gain it back.

aylajane

Most people who have WLS do not do it as a "first attempt" at losing weight, nor think of it as an "easy" way out - it is a LAST resort after a lifetime of trying to manage it. Some probably could do it "normally" if they were educated and understood CICO etc - but look at these boards - not everyone "gets it" enough to be successful and those who do may have tried for years before figuring out how to work this. Why are you personally here if you were not overweight at some point (assuming you are on the losing weight side of this board)? How did you get overweight in the first place if this concept is so easy to grasp? Did you understand everything the day you logged on here? Did you try to lose weight ever before joining this app? Some people are still on their journey and have not gotten to that "enlightenment" phase like you have. If someone came to you before you found the "light" on the "right" way to lose weight and chastised you for trying other methods (diet pills, low carb, IF, etc) - would you have just said "Oh! I see. Why didnt someone ever tell me that?" Everything sounds right to someone who is already on board and they forget how they thought and felt before they got there. Are you saying you personally did not try ANYTHING else besides CICO to lose weight before now? Nothing? No fad diets, pills, eatin under 1200? YOu just woke up one day and decided you needed to lose weight and just *knew* the right way to do it and then did it that way?

Look at these boards - If someone "only" 40 pounds over weight comes in here time and time again trying 1200 calories, no carbs, etc and "Falls off" the wagon over and over because they havent figured out how to make IIFYM/CICO/ etc "work" for them, why are you judging someone who did the same thing with 100 pounds and tried to find something else that worked?

Are you also going to say that people who take supplements to enhance their workouts are taking the "easy" way out? Obviously they could get there without them, it just would take longer. Not talking about steriods but people use BCAA, fat burners, etc. all the time to enhance muscle or burn fat or increase metabolism etc. and do not think of it as the "easy" way out - but it is technically according to your definition... "Tools" are not acceptable, they are the easy way out... those supplements are tools to get you somewhere faster that you could get to without them... so ... are you upset with them too?

dbanks80

It seems that the people that post these threads are so pious. Yes you have lost a lot of weight just from logging and exercise kudos to you, but it doesnt give you the right to be pioused and judgemental of others who are doing something different to lose weight. What works for you might not work for others. Dont judge unless you've walked a mile in their shoes.

And yes I've lost a lot of weight from using MFP logging my food and exercising.

LAT1963

It seems that the people that post these threads are so pious. Yes you have lost a lot of weight just from logging and exercise kudos to you, but it doesnt give you the right to be pioused and judgemental of others who are doing something different to lose weight. What works for you might not work for others. Dont judge unless you've walked a mile in their shoes.

And yes I've lost a lot of weight from using MFP logging my food and exercising.

+1

schouisch

I have found that my body got broken. I was unable to exercise much, keep my food in order since I was always hungry. So I gained and lost the same 10 pounds, but they found friends. Lots of research and testing and I got approved for WLS. It saved my life. Not the easy road. I get vitamin deficiencies. My hair falls out if I don't eat enough protein. But I exercise like a beast now and log every morsel. When I don't, I gain.

I guess you can say it's the easy way. But I would have to laugh. I spend all day eating vitamins, drinking enough water, eating enough protein. A bowl of cereal puts me to sleep, so I guess my favorite breakfast is a thing of the past.

I am well aware that there is a danger of regain. One must constantly be vigilant about backsliding into old behaviors. I am no exception. I am highly motivated and am doing well 2,5 years post surgery.

So judge away. I am going to keep doing my thing and realize my life is completely changed. Huzzah.

LAT1963

Keynesian spotted.

I prefer "reality-based".

And getting back to the actual topic of this thread...

Judgements. We haz them.

Everyone's body is different. You can't possibly know the individual circumstances that lead a person in consult with their medical experts to decide on weight loss surgery.

Can we quit trying to find reasons to fault each other and go back to improving ourselves now?

katematt313

For the vast majority of people, it is nearly impossible to become morbidly obese. Most people could eat 1000s of calories every day and live a sedentary lifestyle, and never get to 300 or 400 lbs or more. If you can get to be that obese, your metabolism is broken and losing the amount of weight that you need to lose to survive is improbable, at best.

I've never heard that before. I'm certainly not disputing it but am quite surprised as I know an awful lot of people who have been very close to or over 300 lb, and I've been 307 lb at my heaviest...but I did not have any trouble losing weight normally.

I am sincerely interested in this theory though...where did you get that information?

My bariatric surgeon. I don't know where the support for that statement comes from - whether it is something routinely observed by him in dealing with the extremely obese, or if there is other data or publications to support it.

My endocrinologist also said something very similar to me, which was subsequently confirmed by the bariatric surgeon. I was never extremely obese, and had been able to sustain a significant, 40 lb weight loss for years, but could not get below a BMI of 35, no matter how low carb or low cal I went, and no matter how much I exercised. My body was stuck. At 5'5", I could not get below 196 lbs. It was a fight to maintain my weight. Worse, I had been dealing with T2 diabetes, severe PCOS, and a host of other obesity-related illnesses since I was in my early-mid 20s, and they were not relieved with my weight loss. The endo said that one has to suffer from severe metabolic disorder to manifest such significant symptoms, at such an early age, and at the low end of the "obese" range. Considering my family history - my dad, a healthy guy who, in the military with no excess body fat, had a heart attack at 40 years old, then subsequently was diagnosed with diabetes and other issues; my sister, who was 320 lbs in high school - the endo said that I was particularly susceptible to severe metabolic disorder, and it was going to be hard to get out from under it, even with diet, exercise, and medicine.

dcc56

I would like to recommend a great book that covers this topic in depth:
Dr. Garth Davis
The Expert's Guide to WLS

Look for it at your local library or bookstore.

(I am not related to the author and I will not benefit in any way from this recommendation.
I am a WLS patient and I found this book to be extremely valuable to me.)

Check out this book and have a discussion with YOUR DOCTOR.
Most of all, don't give up!

TyphonRex

For the vast majority of people, it is nearly impossible to become morbidly obese. Most people could eat 1000s of calories every day and live a sedentary lifestyle, and never get to 300 or 400 lbs or more. If you can get to be that obese, your metabolism is broken and losing the amount of weight that you need to lose to survive is improbable, at best.

No.

That just..

No.

On all accounts that is incorrect.

osothefinn

Or you can leave it in the pocket of the corporation, who will pay it out to the "investment class", who will hoard it in offshore accounts rather than having it participate in circulation. These people are not the "job creators", they are the resource-hoarders who act as gatekeepers standing between the "invention class" and the tools and resources of production.

Do these corporations you work for know you think they're hoarders? Corporations exist to make money. They pay out salaries of the minimum necessary to get the work performed, and try to pay as little taxes as possible because they need to make money. Let me guess, you think taxation is investment too.

I don't know what your background is in this material, but I have years of experience in high-tech companies including pre-ipo startups that tap into the self-described "job creators" for investment, an engineering degree, and an MBA. So I have a pretty strong practical and educational background in this stuff--including basic principles of macro-economics which are not politically spun and not the propaganda of any particular news source or political party.

Hey, sounds like my background, except for the MBA, except the economy is continually driven into the crapper by MBAs, so I don't think I'm missing out on much.

So yeah, I am an expert, and this is my opinion. Yours seems driven by FOX news propaganda and ignorance of macro-economic principles.

Anyone referring to a mainstream media outlet as propaganda is a partisan shill.

Look, I'm not sure if you've ever looked at the Fed Z1 and the BEA's GDP stuff. The economy since the 80's has basically been driven by expansions in government, corporate, and private debt. If your multiplier was anywhere close to reality we should have seen a 70% growth in GDP, after factoring out increasing debt, for all the social spending over the past 30 years. It's not there. I'm not even getting into the validity of social programs, but you can't create money from nothing. If you tax Peter to buy groceries for Paul what that data shows in practical terms is that Peter was forced to charge on his credit card to make up for the lost income. That's not a multiplier, unless you think debt doesn't matter, in which case you apparently are a Congressperson.

skittle316

Who cares how you loose it, the end result is you want to be a healthy weighr and live.a healthy lifestyle. If surgery gets the person to a healthy weight faster so they can focus on the lifestyle of keeping the weight off so be it. If they get surgery, don't change how they eat and gain it all back, so be it.

There is nothing wrong with that, it's petty to think one needs to "push" themselves to loose weight. They don't and it's different for everyone, focus on what you're doing and where it gets you.

FitOldMomma

My opinion:

Whatever works; work it.


I'm not one of those people who believe just because something worked for me it is the right thing for others.

I kind of cringe when I hear people say " I lost it the hard way ". That sounds more like a person bragging that they have won some virtuous competition or something.

If a person is able to attain the level of health they desire, well, more power to them. As long as it isn't unhealthy or dangerous.

Just as when someone quits smoking; some can do it 'cold turkey', some use nicotine replacement therapies or medications. Who cares HOW they do it...it is being quit that is important.

asia1967

Easy enough I care because I know state insurances that are funded by tax payers that pay for theses surgeries. I have seen 3 people in my area have them and fail at keeping the weight off. How much did that cost us?

Not to be rude, but I didn't hear you say anything about all the people who have had heart surgery and don't change their lifestyle. Like eating fried food, continue to smoke, are couch potatoes and order take out all the time. That is the easy way.
I had weight loss surgery. I lost 60lbs on my own then had the surgery, lost another 120lb. I weigh all my food, drink plenty of water, bust my butt working out and on top of that I have to take a regiment of vitamins and minerals every day no excuse, or I can get sick. I have lost 44lbs since joining MFP at the end of May. It is a tool and works great the first 6 months after that your on your own. So Please don't think I took the easy way out. I can't take a day of and just say I don't feel like eating the way I should for today. I need to be more dedicated now after the surgery than ever in my life. I wish I wouldn't have had to have the surgery, I guess the same way the heart patient wished that didn't have to have their surgery. But I am sure glad that it was an option, that gave me the helping hand that I needed. Otherwise I may not even be here to read your post.
I do appreciate the fact that you concerned about the tax dollar thou.
Best of luck in your weight loss journey.

sarahViolet1977

I have LOTS of opinion about TOOLS: like SURGERY and TOOLS who post ignorant crap on the internet.
Is it an easy out? No. It's a wonderful tool that is helping ME to do what i could not do on my own, along with counseling, nutritional advice, and exercise. I will always have to work hard to maintain any weight loss, the only thing is that now my stomach is smaller and does not allow me to overeat the way that I did. The rapid weight loss in the beginning allowed me to start moving and exercising. I'm happy, I paid for the surgery out of pocket, and don't think it's any of your damn business what other people do. Worried about tax dollars? Write your Congressman.

I love this answer!

spfldpam

[/quote]
Understand, but what keeps them from eating 1900 calories and starting an exercise program? If they are large, they got that way from eating unhealthy and to much and no exercise (most of them). Since they have to follow a strict program with surgery why can't they start that without the surgery? Many on here do and are successful.
[/quote]

Ah most people who have WLS have tried every diet in the book and have been obese their entire life. They have tried to loose many times and possibly lost some weight but don't succeed. If it is a good reputable WLS program they have people on staff who work with them on nutrition, exercise and head issues too!
I was born weighing almost 11 pounds and was obese/fat all my life. I was on Weight Watchers before the age of 10! I tried every diet their was. Yes I knew I was fat and I knew why. I was eating too much. I did have WLS on June 11, 2012. I had the gastric sleeve. I lost 47 pounds before my surgery following a 1200 cal diet on her and tracking everything I ate and doing mostly walking as my exercise. Yes, I was doing good and the thought did cross my mind that maybe I didn't really need the surgery but then I remembered all the other times I had lost 50 or more pounds but then never got to my goal or a health weight so I did have the WLS.
Don't let anyone tell you it is "easy way out", it is far from it. I still track everything I eat. I have logged on here at MFP for over 900 days straight! I work out 2-3 times a week. The WLS sleeve surgery is a tool in my toolbox like exercise and other things. The surgery is only on the stomach not the head so if people don't work on why they are over eating before WLS they will still have issues after WLS. Am I perfect after surgery no. I have ate "not so good foods" but instead of eating a huge bowl of ice cream I can only eat a small individual sized cup. Yes I could gain it all back if I snacked all day long and yes people have gained their weight back after WLS just as people gain back weight after loosing it on a diet. I feel MFP is the best thing ever. I track every day and I am honest about what I track also. The good, the bad and the ugly. My WLS program nutritionists say "there aren't any bad or forbidden foods, just moderation" and I agree.
I am so thankful I had WLS sleeve surgery. The only regret I have is that I waited till I was 47 years old to have it. I am finally at a healthy weight for the first time in my entire life.

spfldpam

"Understand, but what keeps them from eating 1900 calories and starting an exercise program? If they are large, they got that way from eating unhealthy and to much and no exercise (most of them). Since they have to follow a strict program with surgery why can't they start that without the surgery? Many on here do and are successful."

I guess the quote thing didn't work on my reply post. I was replying to the above post.

Miss_1999

I dont like to judge something but I will not fool you and tell you I am not judgemental about WLS cuz I am.

And adult entertainers. Don't forget them. She's *far* better than they are, because what they do is "gross".

UsedToBeHusky

There are people with hormone-related issues, many are undiagnosed, that interfere with weight loss. PCOS has been mentioned in this thread. Also, thyroid disorder and pituitary disorders. The symptoms of these diseases are generally subtle with the most obvious symptom being weight gain, which is pretty difficult to detect from the difference from non-disease related weight gain.

No one is required to provide anyone else their own personal medical history. It is up to a physician to determine if an individual's case qualifies for WLS.

People make too many damn assumptions! You don't know what anyone's situation is, and just because you can lose weight, doesn't mean that you should assume that everyone can. Or that anyone opting for WLS is looking for an easy way out. Most people do treat it like a last resort.