Re-Thinking Protein

LoneWolfRunner

Some food for thought...

http://www.forksoverknives.com/slaying-protein-myth/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=Newsletter082114

Muzica1959

I was raw vegan for over a year. Sometimes I think I should go back to being one or at least vegan.

LoneWolfRunner

I try to be plant-based...but not a whole lot of family support, but they are getting there...I need to be better myself...

FunkyTobias

Vegan propaganda, nothing more.

LoneWolfRunner

Ok...I guess we all choose whatever propaganda makes us feel comfy at night.

Bukovnik

If it moos, clucks, oinks, or swims........I'LL EAT IT!!!!!

CupcakesMom2

I have recently started eating this way about 90%. And I never felt better.

MissHolidayGolightly

The author is an endurance athlete, assuming ultra marathoner. Not surprising that he is fine with lower protein amounts as runners needs carbs for energy. Ultra runners needs loads of carbs.

ana3067

Agree with FunkyTobias. I didn't even read it, but there are no academic sources to give credence to what he is saying. And at the end (the only part I actually read), he mentions herbivores: "no one questions where they get their protein from." Well no, because as herbivores their bodies have evolved differently than carnivores' or omnivores'. Humans are by nature omnivores with environment dictating what can be consumed, but our bodies are still adapted to function on both sources of vegetation and meat. Herbivores don't CHOOSE to be herbivores.

mommyrunning

Vegan propaganda, nothing more.

I actually thought it was a well written approach to how you can be healthy or even an athlete as a vegan. Being vegan is not for everyone and that is okay but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with being a vegan. If a person chooses to be a vegetarian or vegan and educate themselves on balanced nutrition then what's wrong with it? Over time science and experience mold what is considered normal and healthy. We used to be meat (often red meat), potatoes, bread, butter, & milk. Then it was add veggies to that. Then it was lean meat and veggies is the way to go. Now people are seeing you can be healthy without eating meat or animal products. I don't think one is superior over another simply different options people have.

maizerage66

This entire documentary was funded by vegan companies. So of course they're going to bring this information across in the way that they have. Everything in excess will kill you in one way or another. Everything...You can get too much vitamin C, too much Iron, etc. Everything in large amounts is bad, which is why everyone stresses EVERYTHING IN MODERATION. You can live a long and healthy life by consuming animal meats and dairy, processed foods and the like if it's consumed in moderation and not in excess. If you have a medical condition that prohibits you from anything then that's a different story. My grandparents are in their 80s and I expect them to live for another 10 years and they are very healthy. And they're farmers...so they've consumed meat and dairy from the very beginning. Why are they still healthy and what's their secret? They eat SMART aka eating everything in MODERATION. Don't give up animal protein just because of this documentary, because animal meat has nutrients your body needs that plants don't have...

RodaRose

Some food for thought...

http://www.forksoverknives.com/slaying-protein-myth/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=Newsletter082114

Yes.

My husband and I are not vegan. We do eat vegetarian most of the time. Occasionally he brings home a rotisserie chicken.

The_Enginerd

Forks Over Knives blog... solid source.

From the blog

With respect to athletes, to my knowledge no scientific study has ever shown that consumption of protein beyond the RDA-advised minimum (10 percent of daily calories) stimulates additional muscle growth or expedites physiological repair induced by exercise stress.

Dude must not do much reading.

10 percent may be fine if your... I don't know, and ULTRA-MARATHONER who eats tons of calories and get get an adequate amount of protein at that level since he eats a ton of calories.

ana3067

Vegan propaganda, nothing more.

I actually thought it was a well written approach to how you can be healthy or even an athlete as a vegan. Being vegan is not for everyone and that is okay but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with being a vegan. If a person chooses to be a vegetarian or vegan and educate themselves on balanced nutrition then what's wrong with it? Over time science and experience mold what is considered normal and healthy. We used to be meat (often red meat), potatoes, bread, butter, & milk. Then it was add veggies to that. Then it was lean meat and veggies is the way to go. Now people are seeing you can be healthy without eating meat or animal products. I don't think one is superior over another simply different options people have.

A high protein diet is far superior over a low-protein vegan/veggie diet (assuming not supplemented) when aesthetic or strength goals are desired, though. You cannot fuel muscular growth or do as good of a job minimizing muscle loss while on a caloric deficit if you are not eating enough protein, and most vegans/veggies who have posted here asking about protein are usually asking for advice on how to meet protein requirements because they are simply not getting enough from their diet. Nothing against eating veggie/vegan if that's your thing, but protein is important and in this case I would highly advise anyone who is not regularly eating high sources of protein to supplement.

LoneWolfRunner

Then you have not seen the growing number of strength athletes that are vegan...

mommyrunning

Agree with FunkyTobias. I didn't even read it, but there are no academic sources to give credence to what he is saying. And at the end (the only part I actually read), he mentions herbivores: "no one questions where they get their protein from." Well no, because as herbivores their bodies have evolved differently than carnivores' or omnivores'. Humans are by nature omnivores with environment dictating what can be consumed, but our bodies are still adapted to function on both sources of vegetation and meat. Herbivores don't CHOOSE to be herbivores.

So you may or may not be right about the herbivore vs omnivore point but don't you think it's a bit unfair to dismiss an article without reading it? I am not suggesting the author is an expert but it is a decent article. While there may not be large numbers of studies on the health benefits of plant based diets I think it's a bit naive to dismiss it all together. Lots of things don't get studied that doesn't mean they are wrong or right. I don't think there's anything wrong with eating meat or not nutrition wise and would like to see people not be so dismissive simply because it's not their choice. Many cultures eat very little meat compared to the American diet.


There are documented health benefits of a plant based diet.
"Research shows that plant-based diets are cost-effective, low-risk interventions that may lower body mass index, blood pressure, HbA1C, and cholesterol levels. They may also reduce the number of medications needed to treat chronic diseases and lower ischemic heart disease mortality rates."

Below are some websites that also discuss benefits of a plant based diet.
http://nutritionfacts.org/topics/plant-based-diets/
http://health.usnews.com/health-news/articles/2013/01/07/plant-based-diets-a-primer
http://my.clevelandclinic.org/multimedia/transcripts/1602_benefits-of-plant-based-diets.aspx

ana3067

Then you have not seen the growing number of strength athletes that are vegan...

and chances are they are either supplementing quite a bit (which a lot of us do simply to meet our protein needs, and we are eating a standard omnivore diet) OR they are not making the kind of progress that they should because they are not consuming enough protein. If they eat at a caloric surplus, they will get a bit more protein but they will be gaining more fat than they do muscle. This happened to me while eating at a surplus (not on purpose, wasn't tracking macros/calories back then) and eating a regular omnivore diet - there were just too many carbs and fats instead of protein to help fuel muscular growth more than fat growth. Muscle is expendable according to the body, so if you are over-eating and eating low protein, obviously you will wind up fueling fat stores. If you eat enough protein for your body (and 10% of calories is very likely not enough even at a surplus) then muscle will utilize that protein. I've seen so many skinny-fat or chubby people lifting weights, and it's simply because they are not monitoring their diets properly. I'm in the process of losing fat myself, but I am monitoring what I am eating so I can ensure I eat enough protein to minimize muscle loss. Once I start eating less than 150g regularly, I tend to start looking and feeling softer.

geneticsteacher

Nothing wrong with a vegetarian diet, but there are several unsubstantiated claims in this article. I can't find ANY reputable articles linking casein to cancer.

ana3067

Agree with FunkyTobias. I didn't even read it, but there are no academic sources to give credence to what he is saying. And at the end (the only part I actually read), he mentions herbivores: "no one questions where they get their protein from." Well no, because as herbivores their bodies have evolved differently than carnivores' or omnivores'. Humans are by nature omnivores with environment dictating what can be consumed, but our bodies are still adapted to function on both sources of vegetation and meat. Herbivores don't CHOOSE to be herbivores.

So you may or may not be right about the herbivore vs omnivore point but don't you think it's a bit unfair to dismiss an article without reading it? I am not suggesting the author is an expert but it is a decent article. While there may not be large numbers of studies on the health benefits of plant based diets I think it's a bit naive to dismiss it all together. Lots of things don't get studied that doesn't mean they are wrong or right. I don't think there's anything wrong with eating meat or not nutrition wise and would like to see people not be so dismissive simply because it's not their choice. Many cultures eat very little meat compared to the American diet.


There are documented health benefits of a plant based diet.
"Research shows that plant-based diets are cost-effective, low-risk interventions that may lower body mass index, blood pressure, HbA1C, and cholesterol levels. They may also reduce the number of medications needed to treat chronic diseases and lower ischemic heart disease mortality rates."

Below are some websites that also discuss benefits of a plant based diet.
http://nutritionfacts.org/topics/plant-based-diets/
http://health.usnews.com/health-news/articles/2013/01/07/plant-based-diets-a-primer
http://my.clevelandclinic.org/multimedia/transcripts/1602_benefits-of-plant-based-diets.aspx

No, it's not unfair to dismiss an article without reading it when it is trying to provide facts without utilizing academic sources to back up the facts/ideas. If I were to write a paper for one of my psychology courses based simply on my opinion and beliefs, I would get a very low mark. Now use academic sources to back up and explain my reasoning and opinions, and do a good job of explaining how these sources are backing up my opinion, then I will get a good grade.

same thing applies to this article. It's very obvious that this is a biased article. So of course the author will write something up that says "eating a low-protein diet is totally fine! eat vegan and don't worry about your protein intake and you'll be fine!" If he had looked for articles that both support and dismiss his claims, and shared both equally without bias in order to let the reader make his or her own informed decision, then I would have read the article. But it did none of this, and by just skimming it it was clear to see that this is a highly biased, and if you will, propaganda-laden piece.

You are clearly taking what I am saying, and what others say, too personally. I am not saying don't eat vegan, I am saying don't eat low protein. If you get a truly adequate amount of protein in by supplementing while on a vegan diet, then more power to you.

mommyrunning

Vegan propaganda, nothing more.

I actually thought it was a well written approach to how you can be healthy or even an athlete as a vegan. Being vegan is not for everyone and that is okay but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with being a vegan. If a person chooses to be a vegetarian or vegan and educate themselves on balanced nutrition then what's wrong with it? Over time science and experience mold what is considered normal and healthy. We used to be meat (often red meat), potatoes, bread, butter, & milk. Then it was add veggies to that. Then it was lean meat and veggies is the way to go. Now people are seeing you can be healthy without eating meat or animal products. I don't think one is superior over another simply different options people have.

A high protein diet is far superior over a low-protein vegan/veggie diet (assuming not supplemented) when aesthetic or strength goals are desired, though. You cannot fuel muscular growth or do as good of a job minimizing muscle loss while on a caloric deficit if you are not eating enough protein, and most vegans/veggies who have posted here asking about protein are usually asking for advice on how to meet protein requirements because they are simply not getting enough from their diet. Nothing against eating veggie/vegan if that's your thing, but protein is important and in this case I would highly advise anyone who is not regularly eating high sources of protein to supplement.

I agree with you that protein is important and if someone is deciding to give up meat and or animal products then they will need to monitor their nutrition and probably supplement some things. One should not blindly become a vegan or vegetarian because they think they will suddenly be healthy.

I also agree with another poster that said anything in excess is bad and it's unfair to say people who eat meat will be overweight or unhealthy. I am not against people eating meat just want others to know you can be healthy if you don't eat it.

eric_sg61

Forks Over Knives blog... solid source.

From the blog

With respect to athletes, to my knowledge no scientific study has ever shown that consumption of protein beyond the RDA-advised minimum (10 percent of daily calories) stimulates additional muscle growth or expedites physiological repair induced by exercise stress.

Dude must not do much reading.

10 percent may be fine if your... I don't know, and ULTRA-MARATHONER who eats tons of calories and get get an adequate amount of protein at that level since he eats a ton of calories.

True, marathoners have huge calorie intakes. Theoretically, 10% protein for someone with those levels of caloric intake would put them at a .8-1g/lb of body-weight.