Its not how many calories, its WHAT you eat...

alantin

Honestly.....from all I have read....if you are eating the right foods.....you will be under your calories....I mean...it is really hard to eat over 1200 calories a day when you are eating whole foods (mostly fruits and nutrient rich vegetables).......

Are you serious?
I have never had any trouble eating my 2000-3000 Calories in good whole foods!

Ge0rgiana

I worked with a lady whose husband is a body builder. Basically, while he trains the only carbs he eats come from green beans. That's it. When she complains to him that she wants a 6pack (she's thin anyway... naturally... makes you ill, huh?) he just tells her to stop eating carbs and she'll get it. That's all I know. :happy:

Michelle_J

I have no idea. Just wanted to say hi........

TrainingWithTonya

Check out the book "Nutrition for Health, Fitness, and Sport" by Melvin H. Williams.

Gaining muscle and losing fat are a lot more complicated then just the standard calories in vs. calories out. Weight gain is typically a combination of both muscle and fat mass on a diet that provides a large calorie surplus. In order to build muscle, you only need an excess of about 15-25 grams of protein per day and anything extra over that will be stored as fat, even if it is protein and you are lifting a lot. However, if you are eating correctly to fuel the body and providing the required carbs, protein, and healthy fats while at a slight deficit but having that extra 15-25 grams of protein, you can lose fat while building muscle. It's not a quick fix though, and takes focus, dedication, and lots of patience. Most body builders and their coaches, however, aren't educated enough in the science of nutrition to realize the specific needs of the body so they tend to push protein because it is a "building block for muscle" not realizing that even lean protein can be stored as fat if it isn't needed.

If your goal is to lose fat while building muscle, I'd recommend sticking with the standard recommendations on here but adding in an additional 15-25 grams of protein (which is less then 100 calories, so you're still at a deficit based on the deficit MFP sets), and doing a strenuous resistance training program followed by 30 minutes of cardio 5 days a week.

Mrbackslap

Check out the book "Nutrition for Health, Fitness, and Sport" by Melvin H. Williams.

Gaining muscle and losing fat are a lot more complicated then just the standard calories in vs. calories out. Weight gain is typically a combination of both muscle and fat mass on a diet that provides a large calorie surplus. In order to build muscle, you only need an excess of about 15-25 grams of protein per day and anything extra over that will be stored as fat, even if it is protein and you are lifting a lot. However, if you are eating correctly to fuel the body and providing the required carbs, protein, and healthy fats while at a slight deficit but having that extra 15-25 grams of protein, you can lose fat while building muscle. It's not a quick fix though, and takes focus, dedication, and lots of patience. Most body builders and their coaches, however, aren't educated enough in the science of nutrition to realize the specific needs of the body so they tend to push protein because it is a "building block for muscle" not realizing that even lean protein can be stored as fat if it isn't needed.

If your goal is to lose fat while building muscle, I'd recommend sticking with the standard recommendations on here but adding in an additional 15-25 grams of protein (which is less then 100 calories, so you're still at a deficit based on the deficit MFP sets), and doing a strenuous resistance training program followed by 30 minutes of cardio 5 days a week.

Listen to this lady she knows her stuff :drinker:
And I totally agree on this.

BoresEasily

Another amazing and informative post Tonya, thank you. I was hoping you'd read that thread!

billylindsay

The mans an expert in hi
s field so he's probably right

this statement gets A LOT of people into trouble.

I just assumed he knew the fella to be genuine

musclebuilder

I am training to be a power lifter... squatting, benching, pressing heavy weights of 300 lbs or more, etc...

My coach told me that for a someone doing heavy weight training, the amount of calories you eat is not what determines your fat composition. He basically said that its the quality of the calories that matters.

He said you can lift weights and eat a calorie surplus of lean meats and proteins, fruits, nuts and vegetables,... your weight will stay the same or even increase.. but your body fat will decrease.

By cutting out certain carbs like pasta, bread, etc.. and replacing them with fruits, nuts, and vegetables, you will train your body to burn energy more efficiently and use fat for energy..

This is known in the weightlifting world as "recomping"...

So if your maintenance calories are 2000, and you power lift and eat 2500 calories of the right foods, you will lose fat.

is this true, or is he wrong?

The bottom line is you need to be in a positive energy balance to build muscle mass..There are no two ways about it. You are going to increase your bf if you want to build any significant amount of muscle. It does not mean it has to get out of control. That is where eating the right foods at the right times in the right amounts come in to play. You can also use mini cuts through out a year or so of a muscle gaining phase to help keep bf under control..Look at the approach used by the early modern bodybuilders.. Those guys would keep themselves at about 10-20lbs roughly above their contest condition. Basicly keeping themselves in the 8-15% bf range. And if you begin going over the high end of this bf% spectrum you cut calories and cut some bf until you are back torwards the lower end of that spectrum..Once you accomplish that you go back to building muscle.

Steph_135

Does anyone have any opinion about the 40-30-30 % theory? (40% carbs 30% fat 30% protein) It's something that's come up a lot for me lately. Cause 15-25 grams of protein seems a little low to me, based on what I've read.

Azdak

Check out the book "Nutrition for Health, Fitness, and Sport" by Melvin H. Williams.

Gaining muscle and losing fat are a lot more complicated then just the standard calories in vs. calories out. Weight gain is typically a combination of both muscle and fat mass on a diet that provides a large calorie surplus. In order to build muscle, you only need an excess of about 15-25 grams of protein per day and anything extra over that will be stored as fat, even if it is protein and you are lifting a lot. However, if you are eating correctly to fuel the body and providing the required carbs, protein, and healthy fats while at a slight deficit but having that extra 15-25 grams of protein, you can lose fat while building muscle. It's not a quick fix though, and takes focus, dedication, and lots of patience. Most body builders and their coaches, however, aren't educated enough in the science of nutrition to realize the specific needs of the body so they tend to push protein because it is a "building block for muscle" not realizing that even lean protein can be stored as fat if it isn't needed.

If your goal is to lose fat while building muscle, I'd recommend sticking with the standard recommendations on here but adding in an additional 15-25 grams of protein (which is less then 100 calories, so you're still at a deficit based on the deficit MFP sets), and doing a strenuous resistance training program followed by 30 minutes of cardio 5 days a week.

My understanding is that excess protein calories cannot be converted into fat, for all practical purposes. It suppresses fat oxidation so that any fat you consume is preferentially stored. So you end up in the same place (i.e. stored fat increases), it's just not a "conversion" process. The exception is if you try to cut out all fats--if fat intake is very low and accompanied by excess calories in protein or carbs, then the body will start the process of lipogenesis.

TrainingWithTonya

Does anyone have any opinion about the 40-30-30 % theory? (40% carbs 30% fat 30% protein) It's something that's come up a lot for me lately. Cause 15-25 grams of protein seems a little low to me, based on what I've read.

Thats 15-25 additional grams of protein, not total grams of protein. So, say you have a TDEE of 2500 calories and have been set at 55% carbs, 20% protein, and 25% fat on a 2000 calorie plan to burn 1 pound per week, you have a breakdown of the following:

2000 x 0.55 = 1100 calories from carbs / 4 = 275 grams of carbs
2000 x 0.2 = 400 calories from protein /4 = 100 grams of protein
2000 x 0.25 = 500 calories from fat / 9 = 55.6 grams of fat

If you then eat 25 extra grams of protein on top of the same grams of carbs and fat, you are eating 125 grams of protein and 2100 total calories. This actually gives you a percentage breakdown of 23.8% protein, 52.4% carbs, and 23.8% fat so you are still in the standard recommendation ranges of percentages, but have a 400 calorie per day deficit instead of a 500 calorie per day deficit. This will give you the added protein to build a pound of muscle a week while still having enough of a deficit to burn 0.8 pounds of fat in a week. Yes, the scale may go up slightly but it is because you are able to build muscle while burning fat.

As for 40/30/30, it may work for you, but it may not. It depends on how your body responds and everyone is slightly different. There are so many other things to consider regarding health risks and such that there is no set % that works for everyone, that's why there are large ranges for the macronutrients. Because 40/30/30 doesn't fall within those ranges, I wouldn't recommend it until you've tried other options in the ranges for optimal health, but it may very well work for you. If it doesn't you can always add the carbs back in if you start to feel sluggish, have memory issues, or other symptoms associated with too low of a carb intake.

TrainingWithTonya

Check out the book "Nutrition for Health, Fitness, and Sport" by Melvin H. Williams.

Gaining muscle and losing fat are a lot more complicated then just the standard calories in vs. calories out. Weight gain is typically a combination of both muscle and fat mass on a diet that provides a large calorie surplus. In order to build muscle, you only need an excess of about 15-25 grams of protein per day and anything extra over that will be stored as fat, even if it is protein and you are lifting a lot. However, if you are eating correctly to fuel the body and providing the required carbs, protein, and healthy fats while at a slight deficit but having that extra 15-25 grams of protein, you can lose fat while building muscle. It's not a quick fix though, and takes focus, dedication, and lots of patience. Most body builders and their coaches, however, aren't educated enough in the science of nutrition to realize the specific needs of the body so they tend to push protein because it is a "building block for muscle" not realizing that even lean protein can be stored as fat if it isn't needed.

If your goal is to lose fat while building muscle, I'd recommend sticking with the standard recommendations on here but adding in an additional 15-25 grams of protein (which is less then 100 calories, so you're still at a deficit based on the deficit MFP sets), and doing a strenuous resistance training program followed by 30 minutes of cardio 5 days a week.

My understanding is that excess protein calories cannot be converted into fat, for all practical purposes. It suppresses fat oxidation so that any fat you consume is preferentially stored. So you end up in the same place (i.e. stored fat increases), it's just not a "conversion" process. The exception is if you try to cut out all fats--if fat intake is very low and accompanied by excess calories in protein or carbs, then the body will start the process of lipogenesis.

I'd check your sources to say that protein can't be stored as fat. Basically, carbs and fat are both a combination of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen and protein is a combination of carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen. The nitrogen has to be removed from the protein before the body can use it, so then it is just like carbs or fat in that it is a combination of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen. Basic chemistry will show you how the body can combine the various elements and remove parts from each to make what it wants. Protein can most definitely be stored as adipose tissue if it is consumed in excess.

manetta1

I dont believe this one bit. Michael Phelps during the olympic training ate 12000 cals a day to train. I would bet those weren't all good calories.

Azdak

Check out the book "Nutrition for Health, Fitness, and Sport" by Melvin H. Williams.

Gaining muscle and losing fat are a lot more complicated then just the standard calories in vs. calories out. Weight gain is typically a combination of both muscle and fat mass on a diet that provides a large calorie surplus. In order to build muscle, you only need an excess of about 15-25 grams of protein per day and anything extra over that will be stored as fat, even if it is protein and you are lifting a lot. However, if you are eating correctly to fuel the body and providing the required carbs, protein, and healthy fats while at a slight deficit but having that extra 15-25 grams of protein, you can lose fat while building muscle. It's not a quick fix though, and takes focus, dedication, and lots of patience. Most body builders and their coaches, however, aren't educated enough in the science of nutrition to realize the specific needs of the body so they tend to push protein because it is a "building block for muscle" not realizing that even lean protein can be stored as fat if it isn't needed.

If your goal is to lose fat while building muscle, I'd recommend sticking with the standard recommendations on here but adding in an additional 15-25 grams of protein (which is less then 100 calories, so you're still at a deficit based on the deficit MFP sets), and doing a strenuous resistance training program followed by 30 minutes of cardio 5 days a week.

My understanding is that excess protein calories cannot be converted into fat, for all practical purposes. It suppresses fat oxidation so that any fat you consume is preferentially stored. So you end up in the same place (i.e. stored fat increases), it's just not a "conversion" process. The exception is if you try to cut out all fats--if fat intake is very low and accompanied by excess calories in protein or carbs, then the body will start the process of lipogenesis.

I'd check your sources to say that protein can't be stored as fat. Basically, carbs and fat are both a combination of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen and protein is a combination of carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen. The nitrogen has to be removed from the protein before the body can use it, so then it is just like carbs or fat in that it is a combination of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen. Basic chemistry will show you how the body can combine the various elements and remove parts from each to make what it wants. Protein can most definitely be stored as adipose tissue if it is consumed in excess.

The pathways exist, but the chances of it occurring under normal physiologic and lifestyle conditions are extremely low.

TrainingWithTonya

Check out the book "Nutrition for Health, Fitness, and Sport" by Melvin H. Williams.

Gaining muscle and losing fat are a lot more complicated then just the standard calories in vs. calories out. Weight gain is typically a combination of both muscle and fat mass on a diet that provides a large calorie surplus. In order to build muscle, you only need an excess of about 15-25 grams of protein per day and anything extra over that will be stored as fat, even if it is protein and you are lifting a lot. However, if you are eating correctly to fuel the body and providing the required carbs, protein, and healthy fats while at a slight deficit but having that extra 15-25 grams of protein, you can lose fat while building muscle. It's not a quick fix though, and takes focus, dedication, and lots of patience. Most body builders and their coaches, however, aren't educated enough in the science of nutrition to realize the specific needs of the body so they tend to push protein because it is a "building block for muscle" not realizing that even lean protein can be stored as fat if it isn't needed.

If your goal is to lose fat while building muscle, I'd recommend sticking with the standard recommendations on here but adding in an additional 15-25 grams of protein (which is less then 100 calories, so you're still at a deficit based on the deficit MFP sets), and doing a strenuous resistance training program followed by 30 minutes of cardio 5 days a week.

My understanding is that excess protein calories cannot be converted into fat, for all practical purposes. It suppresses fat oxidation so that any fat you consume is preferentially stored. So you end up in the same place (i.e. stored fat increases), it's just not a "conversion" process. The exception is if you try to cut out all fats--if fat intake is very low and accompanied by excess calories in protein or carbs, then the body will start the process of lipogenesis.

I'd check your sources to say that protein can't be stored as fat. Basically, carbs and fat are both a combination of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen and protein is a combination of carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen. The nitrogen has to be removed from the protein before the body can use it, so then it is just like carbs or fat in that it is a combination of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen. Basic chemistry will show you how the body can combine the various elements and remove parts from each to make what it wants. Protein can most definitely be stored as adipose tissue if it is consumed in excess.

The pathways exist, but the chances of it occurring under normal physiologic and lifestyle conditions are extremely low.

Being the sponge I am when it comes to knowledge, I decided to look this up in my books to see what you mean. From what I found, the same could be said for carbohydrates. So protein is primarily used for storage in the amino acid pool and muscle tissue or oxidized and carbohydrates primarily used for storage as glycogen or oxidized. And storage as adipose tissue is a last resort of sorts. The only thing I found that says it suppresses fat oxidation, though, is alcohol. So according to this a high protein, high carb, low fat, and low alcohol plan is optimal for minimizing fat storage. Would you agree with that?